Everyday Systems

Hello All,
I have been doing no s for two-three weeks and just completed day six after a few false starts. I have always struggled with emotional eating and occasional binges, however for the last several years I followed another program that had very strict guidelines and my eating was "under control." I was, however, constantly preoccupied with how, when, and how much I could and would eat.

I love how I feel on N days. The clear and simple boundaries allow me to focus on other things in life.

Here's my question: can those of you whom have had crazy eating on s days in the beginning and now have a moderate (not out of control eating) S days send some encouragement my way? I completely understand the theory behind the S days, and understand that sometimes does not equal always or mean try to shovel in as much as one can. But my first two weekends with S days resulted in nonstop eating and I felt horrible. I'm reluctant to give myself permission to eat freely on S days because once I start with the sweets it feels like I can't stop.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Hi, I hope I can offer a little serenity . I have similar issues and because I have so much weight to lose, about a hundred pounds, I got scared about giving myself permission, too. I found that the first week or so I took large portions and I also was a little big on sweets the first weekend, I had two desserts both days. I also decided that unlimited snacks work against me because I eat junk and then don't want meals. My meals are not super nutritious as it is but what I am doing is sticking to three plates no seconds on S days and one sweet. I kind of portion the treats, a piece of cake, not a bucket size bag of M & Ms. If I have two desserts in a day it isn't the end of the world. I find for myself that compulsive eating equals compulsiveness in other areas and that working on one compulsion aids in working on others. I stopped such frequent weighing of myself, too, for example and gave it a chance to go down. Mainly, I try not to get too compulsive about being perfect at No S. You can tweak it as you go along, make improvements that work for you. Congratulate yourself for three plates, no snacks and sweets on No S days and I have a hunch that your S days will work themselves out since you are already showing awareness. Great good luck to you.

Teapot wrote: Mainly, I try not to get too compulsive about being perfect at No S.
You can tweak it as you go along, make improvements that work for you.

I think this above quoted statement is good advice.

That "icky feeling" is also part of the learning process. And it's a good sign - it says that you're listening to your body more. For most people, the S-days look a lot like what every day used to! So, even if you're just cutting them down to 2 a week, that's an improvement.

It's best NOT to worry about it too much at first, but concentrate on the N-days. If you would like my "extended version" of this advice, the "Phases of No-S" sticky above. The short version is that, for most people, the N-day habits start "bleeding over" into S-days.

If you do want to take action, I recommend listening to the "S-days gone wild" podcast. For me, "positive" resolutions (drink more water, eat regular meals) work better than restrictive ones.

Good luck - if you're already getting N-days down, you've made good progress!

serenity88 wrote:But my first two weekends with S days ...

Well, now, I'm gonna stop you right there. It's very difficult (and potentially problem-causing) to conclude *anything* after just a couple of weeks of NoS. I'd say give yourself time, and plenty of it (months!) before you start making any major adjustments to the basic framework. The urge to prematurely start making changes seems to cause more problems than any other single factor. (At least, judging by how often we see messages along the lines of "Well, I'm back. I did NoS last year, and I was so enthusiastic at the start that I decided to only take one S day every second full moon. I couldn't sustain it, and I quit after five moons. Now, I'm trying it again, and I'm not going to mess around with the rules this time.")

In terms of encouragement: I, at least, have had the "classic" experience of having my S days become less extreme, without making any explicit effort to limit myself or impose extra rules. In my case, it really was true that not eating sweets all week meant that I started to need less to feel "treated" on an S day. I didn't really keep track, but this transition happened over the first six months to a year, something like that -- it's not fast, like everything else about NoS! But it is sustainable.

(I think part of the reason I always advocate that people shouldn't overdo it in terms of starting to limit their S days consciously is that if you *can* have the experience I have, it's such a great thing that it would be a shame to miss that opportunity! And you can't figure out if it's going to happen for you unless you give it a good long try, first. Having said all that, some people do find that they need to make some extra rules for their S days, for a variety of reasons. If you find that after many months your S days are as wild as ever, there are various things you can try -- Reinhard has a whole podcast on the subject.)

I'll also second KCCC's "Phases of NoS" thread (in the "sticky" section up top): one of the best sources of comfort and calm information for new and veteran NoSers alike (much like KCCC herself).

[Tangent: What does your string of letters stand for, again, KCCC? I think I saw you mention it in a thread, a while back, but I've forgotten. I had invented a whole folk etymology for it: my theory was that you were a woman named Cecilia, or "Cici", who lived in Kansas City -- thus "Kansas City Cici" or KCCC. It still amuses me.]

hi and welcome
the over doing it on weekends does taper off, but it really takes time to happen. i felt it changed a lot for me after the first 6 months to a year.
even with some wild S days, not binges, but we ate a lot of stuff, i still lost about 17 lbs my first year, and i had a lot of failures on N days too..
now, years later, S days have changed radically for us, just naturally.
we, my 15 year old Son Richard, and I, no longer feel the need to have these grand S day parties, and generally have one treat per day on an S day... gone are the days of finishing off a whole pie in one day, or having slurpees, nachos, and ice cream and whatever other junk, in one sitting (incidentally we really don't eat as much garbage nowadays in general and are so much more selective about sweets and what we eat overall)

these days, i may go to the bakery section of the supermarket and get each of us two mini pastries to have as an S on a weekend morning, as a treat.
we almost never choose to drink soda anymore, and it takes us a whole weekend to finish off one shared pint of ice cream. pre NoS, i think we used to eat about 3 or 4 pints of ice cream a week and my Son would polish off up to 8 cookies a day, almost daily.

I don't think you should intentionally try to restrict S days, but rather try to plan a little bit ahead, and give yourself a framework.. maybe decide that you'll try to have two or three S's per day, maybe not all sweets.
that "yucky feeling" is a sign that your body doesn't like being punished with these binges, and that is good. you will gradually learn that it's much nicer to enjoy your treats without feeling yucky later, so the moderation will happen. just forgive yourself as you go along if you don't immediately have moderate S days, and don't freak out. it really does take time but will happen naturally. be patient

DaveMc wrote: I'll also second KCCC's "Phases of NoS" thread (in the "sticky" section up top): one of the best sources of comfort and calm information for new and veteran NoSers alike (much like KCCC herself).

Dave. what an incredible compliment. Thank you. ::blushing::

[Tangent: What does your string of letters stand for, again, KCCC? I think I saw you mention it in a thread, a while back, but I've forgotten. I had invented a whole folk etymology for it: my theory was that you were a woman named Cecilia, or "Cici", who lived in Kansas City -- thus "Kansas City Cici" or KCCC. It still amuses me.]

It stands for an evaluation model I use constantly: Keep, Chuck, Change, Create. (As in, What here do I want to keep, what here... etc.). I have found it immensely useful, and love that it starts with looking for "what is of value" first - even the most maladaptive situations usually have a germ of good intent in them.

In my head, I pronounce it "K-C-three" (sounds like "Casey 3"), which amuses ME since there are two very significant people in my life that have "Casey" as part of their names.

Love your made-up version... even though not a bit of it is true!

honestly I still have bad weekends sometimes and find myself almost looking forward to Monday for the structure. What tends to help me though personally is to start the day with my usual breakfast. this usually will set up my day better. If I start splurging early it tends to go into the rest of the day. I also do better if I don't snack but do my three meals then add sweets in, that is my something that I look forward to most as I don't ever do seconds anyways.
When I was in Weight watchers I always gave myself a free day. I was still able to maintain a loss with this. I sort of carried this idea over in that I usually try to keep in to one s day. Please know though it is because (before being pregnant) I was pretty much down to my ideal at 125-130.

jellybeans01 wrote:I also do better if I don't snack but do my three meals then add sweets in

Me, too. I can do the most damage by grazing.

Lots of good advice from everyone above.

I have some anti-grazing mods, but I don't recommend you try them yet. I don't recommend any mods during the first month of No S, because the No S habits are enough to deal with in that first month.

You'll eat too much on S days at first. That's just the way it is. Let it be. Don't worry about it yet. Work on getting N day habits solid, instead. Remember, the way you are eating on S days now used to be the way you ate every day. Eating way too much 2 days out of 7 is a big improvement on eating way too much 7 days out of 7.

There's no need to get your behavior perfect right away. In fact, trying to do so is counterproductive, because you'll be fighting too many bad habits at once. Fighting too many bad habits at once, incidentally, is why New Year's resolutions almost always fail. It's better and more effective to fight one or a few bad habits at a time. Divide and conquer is a good strategy when facing a strong enemy. It's tempting to try to take on all your bad eating habits at once, but don't do it.

Eventually, your N day habits will carry over to your S days. But that process takes time, and it can't be rushed.

Meanwhile, if this is feasible for you, maybe stop buying the foods you tend to binge on, or buy them in smaller packages. A temptation to binge is not a good value for your money. Don't buy your sweets at Costco or Sam's Club.

Another thing to do is to plan special treats for S days. Maybe a special dinner, or buy a small quantity of a good-quality sweet you really like.

My anti-grazing mods are:

The Sitting mod. No eating in any position other than sitting.

NEP, the No Eating from Packages (or No Eating without a Plate) mod. If you want to eat, you have to put the food on a plate or in a bowl first, and close up and put away the package before you can start. This also means no eating directly from cooking pots or serving platters at mealtime. If you want to eat, the food has to go on an individual plate or bowl first.

thank you all for your thoughtful responses. It was reassuring to read them.

I'm not sure I agree with having permission to go hog-wild on weekends.

But that's just my opinion.

Well, I think we need to make a distinction between encouraging people to go crazy, and encouraging people not to add extra rules in an effort to *prevent* themselves from going crazy.

Wow, that was a convoluted sentence. But the point is, the "going crazy" part often fixes itself over time, whereas when people scare themselves off by being too restrictive and rushing to add extra rules, they may never come back. So we tend, when giving advice, to err on the side of not-scaring-off. But you're right, you can't actually just go crazy every weekend and expect to lose/maintain weight. It's just that you may be able to get into a more moderate S day pattern without needing to explicitly limit yourself -- in my case, I like to say that my standards of "crazy" just gradually changed over time.

Good insights. Trust the process, that you will naturally become more moderate on your S days over time. If after 6 weeks you find yourself still out of control bingeing, then maybe start tightening up on your S days like not doing snacks.

I don't know how many of these people were ever bingers. I know that I could not stand for the first 14 months of No S to try to rein myself in on S days, even though I had and have many compliant N days and I wanted so much to have sane S days. In fact, I don't consider N days much of a problem at all now. But any thought of mods on S days made me really anxious. Even now, I don't like the idea of purposeful ones, but I am not far above my normal BMI and my blood panels are very good.

I now find in the last few months that I actually got tired of the rotten feeling of either way overeating or grazing (perma-snacking, it's called here) all day. The lousy feeling got stronger than the desire to eat. I didn't overtly plan to eat a certain way on S days, but I did have a general idea that I would like to wait until I was hungry between eating events. I've had several S days on which I still ate more sweets than I consider ideal, but I also got hungry on those days and did not end them stuffed and feeling lousy. And I feel it's getting better all the time.

That being said, I'll never know now if I could have muscled my way to this sooner. But depending on how long you've been a binger (35 years here), I'd say even six weeks is too short a time. Then again, if you're ready, you're ready. I might be ready in a week to bite the bullet on the last vestiges of compulsion.

I'm purposely being a bit wishy-washy because it just depends! Just don't think it's all wrong if you haven't learned to be comfortable in three weeks. The odds are definitely against that. You're getting married here! Don't get a divorce just because the honeymoon is over-- or you've had some rainy days at the resort. Even if you have to go for some counseling sessions later for food types or amounts, you've really got the best, most flexible partner you're going to find.