Everyday Systems

I've been re-reading the NoS book since coming back to NoS the beginning of this month. I am definitely putting a fence around the NoS rules and committed to doing Vanilla NoS. I'm looking for some additional reading material to help me deal with my mind. Exploring the reasons that I left NoS the last time after having so much success with it. I don't want that to happen again. The "rules" of NoS are very simple and not difficult at all....*I* am the problem. The food is not the issue. The food does not need to behave, *I* need to behave. It's a head issue. Could you give me some book recommendations....I know they have been mentioned here.....books that help me deal with my disordered thoughts. It's my thoughts that send me veering off course, not the food! Thanks!

Museum Beck is really good. I don't really read "diet books" hers are mor cognitive behavior tactics I think really work. I have "the Beck Diet Solution" you don't need both the book and work book. In fact I would just buy the workbook if I were to do it again. Many people get help fom her "Four Day Win" book as well.

Ummm Judeth Beck.....darn auto correct.

Zipadee, I echo the recommendation for Judith Beck. I have also used The Beck Diet Solution (book, not workbook) and highly recommend it. Not everything struck a chord with me, but many issues did and I'm still using the strategies, particularly daily reading of all the cards I made. Using her book while following NoS made it easier for me. Good luck with your book quest...maybe we'll all learn of some worthwhile titles!

Mimi

Hadn't heard of The Four Day Win! Different author...it's Martha Beck for this one and Judith Beck for The Beck Diet Solution.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Four-Day-Win- ... 681&sr=1-1

THANK YOU snapdragon and Mimi!! Will be checking this out! Appreciate you sharing so very much!

On another site, a team member got a lot of help from Martha Beck (4-day Win), but for very similar reasons as we do on No S. She uses 4 days (rather than the 5 day week) as the measure for behaviors she is trying to incorporate and they worked so well for her that she ended up going a year without bingeing. Because of my influence, tried three meals a day and liked it but eventually opted for a veggie snack...okay, I digress. She gives herself a little icon as a reward each day and something bigger, like popping bubble wrap (yes, but it works!) after 4 days. Shades of habitcal, but slightly less simple.

Martha Beck is okay, but hides a lot of just what is pretty much straight habit regulation stuff in with a lot of filler, though you might enjoy it. Some people think she's funny. I DO NOT like her voice, so buying the audio CD- which I rarely do-- was a mistake.

Gosh, I would definitely buy the audio version of No S if Reinhard did the voiceover!

Judith Beck has been invaluable to me (I've got the workbook, but I'd consider the "diet for life" if I were buying one now, as each one gets more clinical. Though I ignore everything she says about calorie counting, scheduling exercise, planning what you're going to eat in advance and- God help us-- recipes. Warning: Judith Beck seems to have the sense of humor of Lilith on Cheers. But she makes so much dang sense. And boy, does she have the checklists!

I actually occasionally used a technique (and sometimes do for other things now) I got almost 30 years ago from Feeling Good. Okay, maybe we're not battling depression here, but Burns teaches about how to question our irrational thoughts and assumptions. One strategy was to write down the irrational thought on the left and answer it on the right. Beck does something like this, too, which is not surprising since her father is Burns' mentor.

Wild thought: OMgosh, I really want to eat! Rational answer: Yes, the urge is annoying, but I can wait.
Beck's Life Plan book has a lot more of these. You don't have to do it very often for it to seem more automatic.

It's occuring to me I should be going back and doing some of these things for my S day stuff.

If you can get through the diatribe against AA, Jack Trimpey's Taming the Feast Beast helped me because he was basically saying, for crying out loud, this is not that hard, man up, eat your (he recommended only TWO) meals, and get on with the rest of life. Hunger is natural, you can take it, etc. Get done with this, there are other things to do in life, you don't have to count calories and go to meetings for the rest of your life. It's just food! Get over it! He's not very funny, either, but not a robot.

If you think emotional stuff is your thing, Shrink Yourself is good and you can substitute No S rules for his recommendations for healthy eating, which I think are too vague.

I'm normally way too cheap to buy new books, but I've been considering this one: http://www.amazon.com/But-Deserve-This- ... 524&sr=1-3 about outwitting diet derailing thoughts. I don't get that you feel you need soothing, so I'll not even mention her other book.

Of course, I substitute 'moderate eating" for the word "diet" wherever needed.

Then again, we've got a lot of wise people here. If you share some of what got you off track, you'd probably get some great posts in response that you could bookmark and refer back to often. And, ala Beck, write on a card and carry with you. Maybe even make it a habitcal behavior for a month or two to read the responses.

I already posted a thread about the willpower book (by Baumeister) no one else had mentioned, but there is only one chapter on weight loss. See that thread for its priceless advice, IMHO.

Given that I'm supposed to be a No S success, it's a little embarrassing how much I know about all this other literature and this is the tip of the iceberg regarding letting go of food. But No S is the lynchpin.

Wow Oolala! Thanks so much for all of this information!! I'm not sure exactly why or how I got off course the last time. I did go on a two week vacation and never got fully back after that. I feel good when I am eating like this and was having great success. I don't think it is as much emotional eating for me as it is just plain ole bad habits. I eat for relaxation and short term pleasure....just cuz it's what I have always done. I'm hoping it's just a matter of time, time, time to change this. I realize it will take LOTS of time!

I'm going to search some of these books and keep reading and learning about myself. I do NOT want to veer off course again! Thanks!

I highly highly highly recommend "Skinny Thinking" by Laura Katleman-Prue!!! It's all about the mental aspect of sticking to your eating plan. For example, when you find yourself in the kitchen and you're not supposed to be there, what story are you telling yourself? "I had a tough day at work, therefore I feel sorry for myself and I'm entitled to eat this piece of cake." etc. It's very good!

Thanks ksbrownie!! Looked this one up on amazon and it looks like what I am looking for. I think I will start with this one!

May I also suggest that you start a mental repository of NoS comebacks to fight diethead every time it shows up?

I *HIGHLY* suggest that you read and reread the NoS Catch Phrase Glossary sticky at the top of this page: http://www.everydaysystems.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=3883

There are all sorts of phrases/mental pictures/analogies that illustrate the brilliance of NoS and the futility of diethead. Read them through and even copy out those that are meaningful to you.

For example, my favorites that I *still* use 3+ years into (successful) NoS include:

Mark it and move on
One=done
More=sore
Less is best
Practice makes permanent (Just picked that one up today. Thanks, Mimi!)

Can you tell I like short, snappy phrases? They really are some of my best weapons against the temptations to eat one more bite, lick the bowl after dinner, etc.

But, I know for others the mental image ones are more powerful, and you'll find both kinds of mental weaponry in the Catch Phrase thread.

HTH,

I am reading this now and I think it may be the last book I ever need to buy on this topic.

http://www.amazon.com/Eating-Less-Say-G ... 213&sr=1-1

I would try to explain why this book is so different, but it is hard to give you any information outside the context of the book. All I know is I visited eatingless.com (after finding it through a Google search on eating less), read the sample chapter, and immediately ordered the book (from Amazon marketplace) and CD (through her web site).

The No S Diet started me on the right path, but I was still dealing with rebellion. Eating Less deals with the rebellion (and more). And when I have worked my way through the process, the No S Diet will be a choice I make, not rules that someone set up for me, which is how I felt when I followed it the first time (and then left and gained the weight back).

Actually, eating for relaxation and short-term pleasure is emotional eating. Emotional eating isn't only about covering up. . It's also about producing pleasurable emotions or feelings that have nothing to do with satisfying true hunger at the same time. What's keeping you from relaxing? Why do you need extra pleasure from food? Don't you have enough right now? You don't have to answer here; I'm just trying to show what kinds of questions would be asked from this lens of looking at overeating. For some people, this kind of inquiry brings on the deep questions of life and even helps them. For others, it ends up missing the mark of eating less. And for a third group, they say, oh, nothing's wrong. I think I'll knit, or tinker, and they're fine. They easily find something else interesting or pleasurable or productive to do. I still say that's always the cure, but some people have to go through more to get to the point where they see it.

I hope that is the last book you have to read on the topic, SpiritSong. I think that like bingeing, I'm going to have to make a concerted effort to give these books and even a lot of this posting up. But I'm giving myself until the end of the school year because this is such a good substitute to eating!

Oh, BTW, I just checked Gillian Riley's name in my local library. The only books by her there were about Italian and Dutch food! Don't know if it's the same woman, but I'm heartened that it's not "healthy" food.

If only she didn't use that dang word "addiction." But glad to see someone insists you don't need a 12-step program to deal with it, and that you do have the choice. A lot of alcoholics realize that even without AA. I still think my spirituality is becoming even more central, but it wasn't the focal point for my turn around. (I don't want to get an AA war going here, but even AA doesn't acknowledge how much of their influence has to do with thinking strategies.)

But I'm intrigued, too.

Willpower: Rediscovering the Greatest Human Strength

I'm reading it now on my kindle on loan from the library.

One more thing about Riley's book. I looked on Amazon and saw she talks about brain chemistry. I read stuff about that online a few years ago and it made my blood run cold. I thought, oh, this is down to the neuron level. This is not going to go away lightly. I fight this now or I'm going to be eating half gallons of ice cream for the next 20 years.

This also dovetailed with a book I read about Obsessive Compulsive Disorder when I thought about how much the thoughts and anxiety associated with the desire to overeat matched what people said about OCD, though it wasn't about washing hands or rearranging drawers. The book is Brain lock : free yourself from obsessive-compulsive behavior : a four-step self-treatment method to change your brain chemistry Author Schwartz, Jeffrey. I used their ideas, but I can remember only three steps. Maybe not knowing step 4 is why I'm not skinny.

But amazingly, just about everything can be explained in Reinhard's ideas on habit change. As simple as possible but no simpler.

Well, perhaps I'm just fooling myself to think that I simply eat for pleasure and relaxation. I guess if it were that simple I would have stopped doing it long ago. Eating is pleasurable for everyone though isn't it? I think it is. God intended for us to take pleasure in our food. But, I need to find pleasure in other areas of life and not JUST food! I want to think that I just simply need to stop overeating. That it is simply a bad habit that I have had all of my life. Unfortunatetly, it's not that easy. But, is it not easy because I have had the habit of overeating for 40 plus years OR is it not easy because I have some deep seeded emotional issues with food. That is my question that I need to figure out for myself! I feel like it's just a bad habit for me, but maybe not?

I also agree it's okay to take some pleasure from eating. Just not the ONLY pleasure. And, I love enjoying food WITH people.
I do believe with habits at first, that they need a substitute or there's just a big fat vacant space left.
For instance, when trying to quit Diet Soda, at first I try to replace it with Crystal Light/Seltzer Water, etc.
Or with the overeating thing, as I totally relate, it IS getting distracted quickly with something else of pleasure.
For me, I do love to unwind at night in a hot bubble bath.
Or just turn on a fun mindless show, call my sister, etc.
You're doing great exploring all these issues!

ZippaDee wrote:But, is it not easy because I have had the habit of overeating for 40 plus years OR is it not easy because I have some deep seeded emotional issues with food. That is my question that I need to figure out for myself! I feel like it's just a bad habit for me, but maybe not?

Well, everyone's history and relationship with food is different, but for me, my problem definitely boiled down to eating too much good food. I don't really feel I have food issues that need to be probed, unmasked, fought, and overcome. I do have years of habits to be retrained, though!

I think that is why the short, snappy phrases in my mental armory work so well--they focus pretty much solely on the behavior (eg. one=done, mark it and move on). But since reading about so many people's emotional struggles with food, I *have* noticed that I do sometimes use food as comfort, but not "abnormally." (I'm thinking of the wide-spread notion of "comfort food." Some meals really do have a comfort feel to them.) But, those times are not the reason why I was overweight. For me, it was little snitches while prepping meals, taking every cookie/sweet offered at every event, and small, multiple servings that unknowingly added up. Each and every little excess was just that: little but accumulatively excessive.

All that to say, don't try to find issues if none really exist. Mental diet head is real and can be fought. NoS priniciples are great. Start there and build your mental armory to fight diethead. You can and will win the battle!

vmsurbat wrote:

ZippaDee wrote:But, is it not easy because I have had the habit of overeating for 40 plus years OR is it not easy because I have some deep seeded emotional issues with food. That is my question that I need to figure out for myself! I feel like it's just a bad habit for me, but maybe not?

All that to say, don't try to find issues if none really exist. Mental diet head is real and can be fought. NoS priniciples are great. Start there and build your mental armory to fight diethead. You can and will win the battle!

I agree. Plus, I don't think knowing why is all that important. Changing the habits is important.

I knew a lot about my whys long before No S, but it took until I was really scared that my bingeing would go on forever AND this sane system before I could just do it. I'll never know if it would have worked as well if I hadn't explored some things, but it's true that exploring alone didn't give me the will to go through the steps I had to. And No S and some other things helped me see I was making it harder (in my mind) than it was. Not that it was easy; it just boiled down (on N days) to never going more than a few hours wishing I could eat. S days remain a different matter, but also, when I'm being sane in thinking about it, just a matter of time.

Zippadee ~ if you ever do find a great NoS diet- backer book, let us all know.

At the beginning of this year I bought the Paul McKenna book/CD called I Can Make You Thin. It really really helped me with my mental state. I did eventually feel the need for more definite rules and came back to NOS, but the hypnosis CD was really working for me! I turned down things that I never would have in a million years and I wasn't even reading the book... just the hypnosis CD. I suddenly didn't even WANT food which doesn't happen to me. EVER. The reason I quit was because I could never stay un-hypnotized or "awake" long enough to hear what he was feeding my brain and it creeped me out. I pleaded with my husband to listen to it, but he thought it was funny.

Go back to the CD. I've listened to the whole thing many times and there is nothing to fear. but do No S, too.

Are you sure? It really creeped me out. I kept thinking I would "come around" driving or some unsafe thing. I'm a sleep-walker. Are you positive he just makes good suggestions? Because it was really helping my head!

I listened to the whole thing! I would skip the induction and listen while I drove on long trips. I ddi listen sometimes at home before I went to sleep, too. I borrowed it from the library, so I had to give it back. I guess I didn't think it helped enough to buy it, but girl, if you did, go back to it!

Thanks! I will. I never made it past the count down... I feel better about it.

As I've mentioned before, I like Brian Wansink's book, Mindless Eating: why we eat more than we think.

More recently, I've been impressed with Kelly McGonigal's The Willpower Instinct: How Self-Control Works, Why It Matters, and What You Can Do To Get More of It and Charles Duhigg's The Power of Habit: Why We Do What We Do in Life and Business

The problem with all these books from a practical perspective is that, although interesting and largely "correct," they're more descriptive than prescriptive -- not all that useful as how-to guides. But you will find helpful tidbits in there, and I think their psychological focus will help keep you from veering off into non habit-based dead ends.

And of course, I'm fond of this book as well:

Reinhard

I've been reading the Willpower Instinct also. One of the chapters that made me both laugh and wince was about how resolving to go on a diet makes us feel better when we're unhappy about overeating. Then we make a lame effort at dieting, fail, feel bad, and feel better by making another resolution. The same could be said for ordering diet books from Amazon. It just feels so good to click the Buy Now and know that in 3 or 4 days I'll be on the new program that will fix everything!

reinhard wrote:And of course, I'm fond of this book as well:

And every time I read it I get re-inspired. Thank you so much Reinhard. Yours is the best "diet" book!

No S is a given.

I highly recomend Gillian Riley's books. She really gets in the Mind/head part of losing wieght, and the her books are based on scientific studies, kind of like Jeffrey Shwartz books. It has helped me before...with concepts about choosing, willpower, and actually changing our brain!

1 Eating less say goodbye to overeating

http://www.amazon.com/Eating-Less-Say-G ... 528&sr=8-1

2. Beating Overating
http://www.amazon.com/Beating-Overeatin ... 563&sr=1-1

also she has this one I need to read sometime about Willpower

http://www.amazon.com/Willpower-Gillian ... 628&sr=1-1

Wow!! Thank you all so very much for all of these suggestions! Whew! And YES, of course the NoS book is a given!!!! Am currently re-reading with my highlighter.

vmsurbat, I appreciate you bringing to my attention the NoS Catch Phrase Glossary!! I love little snipets and quotes like that...things that can stick in my head easily!

Thanks again!

ZippaDee wrote: vmsurbat, I appreciate you bringing to my attention the NoS Catch Phrase Glossary!! I love little snipets and quotes like that...things that can stick in my head easily!

Thanks again!

Glad to have helped!

I'd be the first to suggest "The Willpower Instinct" but I have to say it did some damage to my No S habit. I became terribly overoptimistic while reading it ("Now when I know so much about dopamine and willpower, I will never again fall into the trap of overeating! I AM INVINCIBLE!" - can you hear the Black Knight's voice from Monty Python? ). Because I had always kept my S days totally unrestricted and hated the bloated, uncomfortable feeling on Monday mornings, I wanted to use the techniques from the book to get rid of S days altogether and replace them with some vague forms of "moderation", which of course didn't work. Now I'm struggling to get back on track with plain vanilla, and practice my willpower skillz only on weekends, when I can't fail anyway.
Don't get me wrong, I love the book to pieces. "TWI" and "No S Diet" are the only ones I'd recommend to anyone who wants to get sane about food. "100 Days of Weight Loss" by Linda Spangle has also been helpful to me - very practical advice on many aspects of the issue.

reinhard wrote:As I've mentioned before, I like Brian Wansink's book, Mindless Eating: why we eat more than we think.

More recently, I've been impressed with Kelly McGonigal's The Willpower Instinct: How Self-Control Works, Why It Matters, and What You Can Do To Get More of It and Charles Duhigg's The Power of Habit: Why We Do What We Do in Life and Business

The problem with all these books from a practical perspective is that, although interesting and largely "correct," they're more descriptive than prescriptive -- not all that useful as how-to guides. But you will find helpful tidbits in there, and I think their psychological focus will help keep you from veering off into non habit-based dead ends.

And of course, I'm fond of this book as well:

Reinhard

I'm reading "The Willpower Instinct" (after seeing it recommended here) and really like it. I particularly appreciate the application sections at the end of each chapter.

Thanks for the very useful recommendation!