45 days to create a new habit

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Thu May 31, 2012 8:04 pm

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/you ... -gonna-die

liverpool · Post by **liverpool** » Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:35 am

I like this enough to make 45 days my new goal. I do think this kind of thing has to vary quite a bit from person to person. But 45 days seems reasonable and achievable.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:59 am

For food changes, it actually takes two to five years. Many people have gone 45 days or more without certain foods or without overeating only to have the pattern reignited quite quickly. And there are so many food cues!

But 45 days is a good start and will certainly take the edge off IF you are strict. If you're not, it will be intermittant reinforcement which creates the strongest bonds to the old behavior. but that doesn't mean it's impossible. It'll just take longer.

leafy_greens · Post by **leafy_greens** » Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:33 pm

oolala53 wrote:For food changes, it actually takes two to five years. Many people have gone 45 days or more without certain foods or without overeating only to have the pattern reignited quite quickly. And there are so many food cues!

This must be why my one straight month of No S didn't work for me. I was hungrier/more chocolate manic than ever. I definitely believe No S takes longer to kick in than other habits.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:24 pm

Not just No S. Any serious change in food habits. Most people are never successful making them, and I say it's normally because they try too much at once and they expect too much too soon. Compared to most diets out there, No S is the easy way. But even it is radical. But if there is anything I think Reinhard should take back, it's the idea that it might take only 21 days to establish the habit. However, the publisher might balk if he told the truth.

If most people accepted from the beginning that it was going to be a slow process spread over two or three years, and they got and accepted the support to keep going, much as they might to get a college degree, we'd have a lot more people eating moderately. They might not be really thin, but they'd be a heck of a lot better off.

So, are you ready to try again, leafygreens? Or did you find an alternative? I wish everyone peace with food no matter how they get there. As long as it's peace they get to and not continual war.

You see my stats in my signature. They're not infomercial stats but I've beat the odds and I still eat too much chocolate sometimes on weekends. But I don't need perfection. A 16% weight drop even without ideal habits on weekends in the same amount of time that most women my age are still trying regular diets and ending up gaining weight is okay with me. And I STILL don't exercise all the time.

r.jean · Post by **r.jean** » Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:53 pm

21 days, 45 days, 2 years, 5 years....
It is all theory and theory in this area is imperfect because we are all individuals.
What truly matters is that you stick to the good habits as much as possible while also enjoying life.
Keep on keeping on everyone one!

leafy_greens · Post by **leafy_greens** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:58 pm

I totally agree about the 21 days not working for everybody! The impression I got, from Reinhard and others in the forums, is that you just have to stick it out for that amount of time, and then the habit will be ingrained and no more cravings. I certainly would not have tried it if Reinhard had said "your cravings will not magically disappear on that day and it will be a years-long struggle."

People on here like to talk about this-or-that behavior will set you up for failure. Well, for me what set me up for failure was thinking I'd be free of my addiction by a certain deadline. Then disappointment when it didn't work, and fear to try again. The amount of panic I felt in the first month was so terrifying that I never want to repeat that feeling. So I personally have not been able to do another No-S month. I just try for perfect N-days here and there but of course I don't have the satisfaction of totally breaking free of food bondage.

So I guess what I'm saying is, to Oohlala, I'm glad that someone out there recognizes that the diet may work for everyone but he time frame doesn't. This kind of gives me hope to try again.

P.S. Oohlala where did you get the 2 to 5 year time frame?

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:42 pm

From the National Weight Loss Registry. There they have found that it takes from 2 to 5 years before a person is not still actually at great risk for relapse. Even then, the relapse rate is 25%.

Also, I know from much reading on eating disorders that those take several years to turn around.

However, remember that the NWLR is looking at many who used traditional dieting and they are a small crowd- only about 3% of those who start. I think those who use less drastic ways have a better chance. In fact, for the ED crowd, it's absolutely a must.

Reinhard often uses slim cultures as a benchmark in terms of behavior. I like it, too. Not at what foods they eat. At what practices they have in common. But we don't live in them, so we have to forge our own way.

You are trying to learn normal eating skills in a crazy culture with ample food that is designed to overcome your natural appestat. It is going to take awhile. But the time is going to pass anyway.

And come on, it's got to be easier than gluten free, no meat, all meat/no bread, or the myriad other restrictions. They've all got their 3% successes. But the world is relatively slim without any of those.

Hope you're feeling the energy to start and try again, but not to have it all over with in a month.

I also suggest you look at the phases of No S sticky thread.

BeingGreen · Post by **BeingGreen** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:01 pm

I have come to the conclusion that maintaining one's weight at a reasonable level--which needs to be individually determined--is a LIFE LONG process. If any one here thinks that thin people are just naturally thin, it seems like a delusion. Even "naturally thin" people make good choices on eating and exercise basically EVERYDAY. What No S codifies is the good choices for those of us who find it hard to make good choices more regularly on our own. There is no time limit or "time minimum" on establishing good habits. A good and healthy weight comes from working it (No S or some other system) for the rest of our lives.

The good news is that the benefits generally outweigh the hardships.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:01 am

I think what leafy-greens is talking about is the sense that food is still an overarching concern in life and that it exerts a nearly constant pressure to either eat it or avoid it. That is NOT true for naturally thin people. Most thin people are not constantly worrying that eating is going to make them fat. Even if they say they are, their behavior doesn't match it. Even though it's been reported that they are exercising some kind of control over their eating, it nowhere comes near what dieters feel they need to do. Plus, many slim people stay that way without following what are often thought of as good health practices. The naturally thin people I have known rarely ate salads or many vegetables or even fruit. The ones I have known drink a fair amount. At least one of them eats an incredible amount of chocolate every day. She's famous for it. Granted, maybe she gets full and hardly eats dinner but that is something most ex-heavies could not do regularly, nor is it particularly healthy. All of them would say they "watch" what they eat but I watched them eat plenty of junk on a regular basis. As I've said before, what they rarely did was eat to the point of getting really full. For some of them, that meant eating a small volume of food; for others, it was a lot, but they could quit with a few bites on the plate. They did NOT always wait until they were very hungry to eat, though they often did, and could either snack or go without eating without too much stress.

For a person who has been very concerned with food, who had it play many parts in her life, it can take a long time for it to recede in importance and in the way that will make life as comfortable around food as the naturally thin person is. She might never be quite that carefree. But it can get a lot better. But she'll have to not only not eat, but also find things to do with her time that food used to fill. Some people for various reasons have an easier time than others. Thin people aren't necessarily spending their time better. They just aren't usually spending as much time eating or thinking about it, and it's rarely because of some monumental willpower. They may even have other obsessions that are as problematic or are harmless, but definitely more convenient in our food-filled culture.

leafy_greens · Post by **leafy_greens** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:37 am

I agree - Naturally thin people just don't *think* about food, no matter what it is they are eating. Once you start to think too much about your eating habits, it has the opposite effect of making you eat more because you're thinking about it all the time. As No S'ers, we should get to the point where we don't think about food until lunch break. And don't think about food after dinner, but do something else. This is what thin people do. Unfortunately, how do you make yourself *not* think about something? It only makes you think about it more.

r.jean · Post by **r.jean** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:42 am

I know what you mean about thinking about food all of the time as a dysfunctional eater; I did that too. I do less obsessing over food now, but I find I actually do more food planning than I used to. I think ahead because I am a pickier eater now. I will not eat marginal tasting food any more. When I travel, I would rather make up some chicken salad and take some fruit rather than being stuck with fast food on the road.

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:50 pm

leafy_greens wrote:Unfortunately, how do you make yourself *not* think about something? It only makes you think about it more.

Research suggests than acknowledging your cravings (and choosing not to act on them) works way better than ignoring them or trying to push them out of your mind. Studies of mindfulness also show that the more you focus on something (like the sensation of pain or desire) without judging, the less discomfort it causes.
I use a combination of techniques from "The Willpower Instinct" book: I acknowledge the craving, feel it in my body ("OK, I have a terrible hankering for x. I can feel it in my mouth, I'm salivating, I feel tension in my jaw. I'd kill for x... On the scale of 1 to 10, it's 11"), then breathe as slowly as possible for about two minutes, while remembering why I want to resist and what payoff it will bring. It doesn't always help, but I have had moderate success with this strategy.
Remember, cravings stop going where they aren't fed, so it gets easier with time.

Post by **reinhard** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:39 pm

I think this is the takeaway:

Habit will (really, truly, measurably, scientifically) make habit-friednly behaviors like No-s easier. There's never a guarantee, you can never quite stop paying attention, but the cost in effort and attention will go down dramatically. It may be 21 days, it may be 19, it may be 45 or 95 till you notice a significant easing up, but stick with it, and it will happen. You'll never quite be able to fall asleep on the job, but stay diligent and it will get a hell of a lot easier. It may even get pleasant.

As for "Naturally thin people," there are precious few of these anymore. I wouldn't worry so much about us vs. them. Think of "Nurturedly thin people" and how you can become one of them instead.

Reinhard