Everyday Systems

Several threads and blogs I've read indicate that it's good to eat protien at every meal because the carbs need it to make energy that gets burned, and otherwise the protien that the carbs need gets torn out of muscles, making you weaker. However, I guess my question/concern about this matter is does fiber counteract the addition of the protien somehow? Is it bad to have diet high in fiber and protien for some reason? Will the reason that protien is being taken to increase it's use by carbs for energy burning processes be reversed in some way through high fiber? Was thinking about this question when putting flaxseed in cereal and chewing on some ham this morning...

A lot of plant foods are high in protein and fiber and if you eat them in combination you get complete protein. Many groups of people have survived on these for very long times without problems.

It's my understanding that fiber doesn't act or react with anything else. It just provides bulk and is good for colon health.

Are these bodybuilding or competitive weight lifting websites per chance?

If you have a compelling competitive need to gain muscle, then I would follow a diet recommended specifically for that sport. Otherwise, I would say eat protein, carbs and fiber in reasonable amounts and don't worry about it.

In terms of long term maintenance and health, this is likely a small issue, if I may say so. Many successful long term No S-ers are vegetarians and judging by the check-in threads of many who actually record their food, fiber doesn't seem to be a big concern, nor combining plant protein sources, either. I humbly recommend you not worry about it until you've had 6 months of compliance and decide you need more muscle for serious athletic pursuits or medical reasons.

Reinhard looks like he has quite good muscle development and from his reports of food intake doesn't eat combined protein or animal sources at every meal. It's likely mostly genetic anyway.

Actually, I'd recommend that you forget about carbs, protein and fat and think about food.

wosnes wrote:Actually, I'd recommend that you forget about carbs, protein and fat and think about food.

Great recommendation! I'd like to add, if I may, think about food you like!

Don't eat because you have too, eat because you like to.

Wosnes and Jethro have it right. We are all made differently. Some of us crave more protein and feel deprived without it. (Like me.). Others crave carbs. It is important that you feel satisfied or you will not stick with it. I believe you will find that you naturally begin to eat healthier as time goes on.

r.jean wrote:Wosnes and Jethro have it right. We are all made differently. Some of us crave more protein and feel deprived without it. (Like me.). Others crave carbs. It is important that you feel satisfied or you will not stick with it. I believe you will find that you naturally begin to eat healthier as time goes on.

But you started talking about protein and carbs! Maybe it should have been meat and potatoes -- which are food.

wosnes wrote:Actually, I'd recommend that you forget about carbs, protein and fat and think about food.

Bingo.

A lot of foods will have fiber, protein, and carbohydrate in combination anyway (legumes anyone?). Focus on individual macronutrients, unless you have specific health requirements like diabetes, is a bit of red herring, but it sure has sold a lot of diet books in the last 20 years.

ironchef wrote:

wosnes wrote:Actually, I'd recommend that you forget about carbs, protein and fat and think about food.

Bingo.

A lot of foods will have fiber, protein, and carbohydrate in combination anyway (legumes anyone?). Focus on individual macronutrients, unless you have specific health requirements like diabetes, is a bit of red herring, but it sure has sold a lot of diet books in the last 20 years.

that's the thing... I am diabetic... although I'm hoping that if I lose enough weight I won't be needing the metformin any more...

so carb goal is about 45-55 carbs per meal. Sugar/carb level in protein stuff like meat and eggs is minimal but don't want to over do it on those since too much fat = too much fat..

Aaah, that changes things. Are you not eligible to see a nutritionist who specializes in diabetes?

oolala53 wrote:Aaah, that changes things. Are you not eligible to see a nutritionist who specializes in diabetes?

Yes, I spoke with a dietician when I was first diagnosed... basics of what they said are essentially the same as no s, but with snacks... one place, 45-55 carbs, 1/3 or more of plate should be green.

Some of the protien reading was here in the forums, on a few other forums, as well as over at http://www.gnolls.org/1794/why-snacking ... -just-fat/

I've read a few websites also the last few days that suggest that high protien may be better than high fiber.. but realistically, I know you need balance in both... Just sort of interesting the think about... might be better to go just a tad more on the protien side?

http://www.nutritionj.com/content/10/1/40

We believe that we have demonstrated modest overall benefit when a relatively high protein weight-reducing diet has been compared with a high-fiber diet.

mastermesh wrote:Yes, I spoke with a dietician when I was first diagnosed... basics of what they said are essentially the same as no s, but with snacks... one place, 45-55 carbs, 1/3 or more of plate should be green.

I really enjoyed learning about low glycemic index carbs (low gi) which evaluates how much a serving of carb-based food effects blood sugar levels. This is real food in real people--not rats or mice or rabbits.

The whole idea of low GI was discovered in the 80s when a diabetes researcher wondered if the blanket suggestion of 15gr carb/serving (promoted by the diabetic society) worked for all carb foods. Answer: no. All carbs are not the same when it comes to its effect on blood sugar levels. Note: Foods like meats and fats have so few carbs that their direct effect on blood sugar levels can't be measured and thus they have no gi.

You can learn all about low gi through internet search, book samples at Amazon (search low gi)--a wealth of info can be gleaned here, and by poking around this website: http://www.glycemicindex.com/ which is sponsored by the University of Sydney and is a leading institution in GI research.

HTH,

I'd start with what the nutritionist advised.(40-55% carb.) 45-60% protein and fat leaves you with a lot of options. (I used 40-30-30 as a diet once and my meals resemble that a lot of the time now because I just like the mix. Doesn't take much to get to 30% fat but I think it makes the meals much more satisfying.) It sounds like you will need to do this seven days a week, though. Diabetes trumps free eating on S days.

If I may ask, are you also participating on a diabetes forum?

oolala53 wrote:I'd start with what the nutritionist advised.(40-55% carb.) 45-60% protein and fat leaves you with a lot of options. (I used 40-30-30 as a diet once and my meals resemble that a lot of the time now because I just like the mix. Doesn't take much to get to 30% fat but I think it makes the meals much more satisfying.) It sounds like you will need to do this seven days a week, though. Diabetes trumps free eating on S days.

If I may ask, are you also participating on a diabetes forum?

not yet... but might need to look in to that.

If you want to complicate things, try this link. Glycemic index can be affected by combination with other foods, either increasing or decreasing the effect of a high glycemic food.

http://nutritiondata.self.com/topics/glycemic-index

However, if your nutritionist says it's okay, for habit's sake, it may be easier to start with small portions of carbs you like and keep working in new choices. Carbs with lower GI's often have higher fiber content. Which brings you back to your original question. And all you can do is experiment.