Everyday Systems

I'm not doing vanilla at the moment, but when I did, I used to have terrible, insatiable cravings/borderline binges on Sunday evenings. I guess I was getting panicky about giving up sweets for five days straight, and the "Last Supper syndrome" was kicking in. I remember rummaging the cupboards in search of something - anything - sweet.
My friend who has just started No S has exactly the same problem, and she turned to me for advice/ideas on how to curb these cravings. I can't really help her, because the whole time I was doing vanilla I had exactly the same problem. Perhaps you could suggest a solution?
So far, A. has come up with the idea of not restricting sweets like dark chocolate, sugary cereal and "fruit" yogurt cups during the week, as they're not her "trigger foods", and they could lessen the fear of scarcity. I'm not sure if that would be helpful or harmul - I guess she has to experiment a bit. Nevertheless, Sunday evening binges are her main concern right now.

I know that allowing certain sweets wouldn't work for me; too much of a slippery slope.

My guess is that eventually without any intervention, the Sunday night binges will calm themselves. I'm also guessing that your friend would rather not wait.

My suggestion therefore is to plan a really awesome treat, something decadent and rich for Sunday night. Make it big and extreme and really, really rich. Frosted brownies a la mode with ice cream, whipped cream and chocolate syrup. Turtle cheesecake with whipped cream and syrup. King size candy bars.

The initial reaction will be "Oh, no, I couldn't do that." Sure she can. And she should if she is struggling. This is honest eating. One of the dynamics of bingeing is that the eating is done secretly or at least by yourself and without any real way to quantify what you are eating. Humans need the brake of seeing it all out there. There is no way around that, telling ourselves maybe it's not THAT bad as we scarf down cookies and sweets, one by one.

Also check to make sure she is enjoying her meals during the week, that she is not avoiding the savory stuff she likes. Maybe Sunday night could become meal planning time where she plans a few highly anticipated meals during the week?

Blithe Morning -- genius! A big fat decadent PLANNED treat. Over the top. Exactly the opposite of what most people not on No S would think. When we know we CAN have it, and we DO have it, we can slowly kill the diet head and allow the body to find it's balance. But over time.

The long-timer vanillas (check vmsurbat today!) find that taking away the denial seems to slowly take away the craving, too. All while not gaining weight, and often while losing, too.

Years ago I read that the Chinese are not big sweets (as in desserts) eaters. It was thought that part of the reason for this is that they include sweets in the form of fruits or some kind of sweeteners in every meal.

I rarely eat cold cereals and avoid most commercial yogurt (it just doesn't taste good), but I don't avoid sweets in my meals. I use sugar, honey or maple syrup in recipes. If I want pancakes or waffles during the week, I have them. I often add honey and/or fruit to my plain yogurt. The yogurt cream I use on fruit has sugar in it. If I make granola, it has sugar and I don't limit it to weekends. Of course, I'm not eating huge amounts of it, either. I've been known to have a square of dark chocolate on an N day.

I think one has to do what works best for them. If including small amounts of sweets on N days helps you to comply, so be it.

How long did you do no-S for?

I'm reading the book for the first time, and he tells us to focus on perfect N-days and that the S-days will come.

I am letting myself eat ANYTHING I want on S-days but focusing on N-day behavior. I even made a pan of fudge last weekend.

BUT the leftover fudge is now in the freezer, and for once, I don't feel drawn to it.

It'll be there next weekend. And in the meantime, all my meals taste good. That is a big change.

Emily

Emily, that's pretty much what I am doing: anything goes on S days, though I do try to make sure I don't go to bed full of sugar Sunday night -- it just makes Monday harder!

Imogen, I love the idea of planning a super special dessert/sweet on Sunday, rich enough to satisfy and make you really feel indulged. Little odds and ends of random sweet stuff just tease you -- they add up, but they don't ever make you really feel you've gotten what you want, so cravings kick in.

Imogen, I don't know if this will help your friend but what I do to avoid the bingey get-it-while-I-can mindset is split up my s-days. I pick my s-days on a weekly basis. For example this week it will be thursday and saturday. I don't like to have 2 s-days in a row and I also don't like 5 n-days in a row. But I only do two s-days a week, max.

I know I will be sticking with no-s forever and I think flexibility is key for me. It felt unnatural (and unsustainable) for me to ALWAYS pass on the wednesday night post baseball ice cream with the family. I have three children and I want to teach them the beauty of this moderate eating lifestyle! Saying no sometimes is moderate, saying no all the time is diet-y.

Thanks,
D

Dhack, that's exactly what I've been doing for some time (I have dessert three days a week, after Wed, Fri, and Sun dinner), but everyone here recommends trying vanilla first, and then tweaking when necessary, so I didn't want to introduce my friend to mods too soon (shhh, she doesn't know she can tweak!). I may reconsider. I second what you said about two days in a row being too much of a good thing.

JW said: "Little odds and ends of random sweet stuff just tease you -- they add up, but they don't ever make you really feel you've gotten what you want, so cravings kick in."

That about sums up the whole point for me. I'm still doing it on S days because "I can" but the reason I go back 7 times for a bite of brownie is that it's NOT satisfying. Okay 12 times. Maybe 13.

Starting this weekend I'm going to be "finallyfull" on S days too, and not allow myself to eat anything unless it's a whole portion or more and it's on a plate. (I can and will attempt to stop when I'm full or satisfied, but I will take it and claim it as a rightful S)

No S means No Sneaking little Stealth portions of Stuff into my mouth.

The more I think about what jw has said, the more appealing it sounds. A substiantial, moderate dessert - not huge, not tiny, on a plate, after proper meal (no solitary snacking is also very helpful)... sounds fantastic. I'll definitely recommend that little mod to my friend, and maybe I'll use it myself at some point? BTW she added she usually has her last Sunday meal at 3 PM (?!), then snacks on sugary stuff all evening... I think she should add a small meal later in the afternoon.
Thanks for all the brilliant ideas!

finallyfull wrote:
No S means No Sneaking little Stealth portions of Stuff into my mouth.

Well said! Stealth portions are what led to my creeping weight gain in the first place...and are still something I've never conquered.

Not that I snack (motto to self: "I am not a snacker."), but when I find myself in a position to have to take tiny servings for a meal and then go back for more---well, the more really adds up but it never feels like it so I'm never really satisfied--until later that day or night when I'm uncomfortably stuffed.... I hate virtual plating....

How long has she been at it? If it's less than three months, just wait it out.

I agree with having planned sweets then, but generous amounts to start.

I didn't give up my S-day binges for two years, but most don't want to wait that long. I'll never know if it would have backfired or not, which was my fear.

Alternately, at the moment of desire, tell her to practice diminishing the pleasure she might get in the next bite and magnifying in her mind the rotten feelings later. Have her weigh the difficult feeling of resisting the urge with the strong memory of feeling blotto later. I didn't reach a point at which the desire went away but more that I just didn't want to suffer afterwards. It's a minor scuffle now.

I had a apple Danish with frosting on Sat because I CAN. LOL

I also had a girl scout cookie bar the thin mints.

But not after Sunday ....till next Sat.. I have more willpower than I thought, because I never thought I could "diet"

Just want to echo the comment from wosnes

Years ago I read that the Chinese are not big sweets (as in desserts) eaters. It was thought that part of the reason for this is that they include sweets in the form of fruits or some kind of sweeteners in every meal.

I noticed that when I eat something like sweet & sour pork for dinner, my craving for a dessert afterwards lessen. I think this is because the sweet taste has already been included in the meal so there is not a big need to look for dessert.

Not sure if this would help your friend...