Everyday Systems

Posted: **Sat Dec 14, 2013 9:48 pm**

K, I was wondering how long does it takes to stop thinking of No S all day..kind of feels like I'm on a diet...I'm almost done with the book and I'm on two sites..thinking No S ALL day long, among others things as well.

Maybe I'm just an obsessive compulsive thinker...Brain stop please

I've only been back since 12/4....my second weekend in..

Posted: **Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:31 pm**

Don't know but I'm in the same boat. Maybe it's because other diets we have been on we are so used to obsessing that we are subconsciously wanting to obsess about this one to. I'm slowly starting to discover there isn't much to obsess about on this one lol. Hopefully soon we will be able to just live our lives and not stress about it

Posted: **Sun Dec 15, 2013 9:52 am**

Helenaz123 wrote:Maybe it's because other diets we have been on we are so used to obsessing that we are subconsciously wanting to obsess about this one to.

Thanks for this...I believe you are right...it all started with starving (diet pills) to lose weight, counting points to counting calories to giving up from the mental exhaustion...a never ending job...so this sounds the most logical..the obsession will die down over time..my goal here is to be normal with food and not diets.

Thank you

Posted: **Sun Dec 15, 2013 4:55 pm**

In the beginning, I think our conscious brain is required to pay attention in order to build the habit.

After enough months (5 or 6????---I don't know, I'm sure it varies for everyone), the habits are strong enough that we won't have to pay attention to follow them. Hence, we call this habit. And that is my goal--which is why my screen name is automatedeating. I think the scary part for me may be when I begin to think I don't have to pay attention to follow the habits anymore, because there will be a void (like what helenaz mentioned) that will either tempt to me to try something different or just fall off the wagon.

That point of strong habit is a giant unknown for me because I've so rarely experienced it with anything. And currently I'm working on establishing 2 major new habits: daily walking and moderate eating. That is a lot for my conscious brain to be focusing on!

Oh, and one other thing: I suspect that there is a real danger of believing that NoS is a strong habit before it truly is. Being used to something is a lot different than having worn a deep groove in the habit loop of our brain. That habit needs to be so well-worn in our brain that it is easier to stay in that one, than to drift over to other well-worn paths of pre-NoS eating.

I might have just figured out why "fear" figures so largely into my NoS journey. I fear failure because I have SO OFTEN failed at trying to change my habits in the past, whether they be exercise, eating, work-habits, parenting habits, relationships, etc., etc., ad nauseum. I know that I will fail (and I don't mean one red day) if I don't force my conscious brain to dig a deep deep groove of moderate eating and daily exercise.

Posted: **Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:19 pm**

There is no predictable amount of time, just like there is no predictable amount of time when people will be happy with eating less, etc. Each person brings her/his own proclivities. I gently say that being preoccupied with fear around eating is a symptom of an eating disorder. Reinhard is pretty honest about not making any claims in this area, though many here, including me, feel we had/have disorders have been helped. But I can't say I never think about food or No S. I feel that's on me, though, not No S.

Posted: **Mon Dec 16, 2013 4:24 pm**

At the beginning I was on here a lot more. Reading the website, reading old forum posts, rereading the book, etc. It helped me a lot during the "hunger" period of the first few weeks when I thought I would starve by not eating between meals.

Now, I try to come on once every few days to update the monthly challenge threads. It doesn't take up as much room in my head anymore and is easier than ever (even through the holidays).

Posted: **Mon Dec 16, 2013 7:02 pm**

OOps! I put a comment I meant for another thread here. Nosnacker caught it and moved it, but I'm deleting it from this thread.

Posted: **Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:09 pm**

Hi Oolala did you mean this one for the What is a binge post? I copied it over there

Posted: **Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:32 pm**

To me NOS is like learning to drive. At first you have to be very conscious about everything, but once you do it x number of times, it becomes automatic.

But eating 3 meals w/o seconds and/or snacks may not be sufficient for some persons, certainly not to me.

The second battle - the hardest one IMHO - is to manage what you eat at the three meals, based on whatever criteria you are using, to create a calorie deficit yet not feel hungry and get used to eating "normal" for you.

Hopefully, as Reinhard said, shame will eventually prevent you from piling on more food that you really need on a normal plate. Otherwise, you may have to reduce your plates to espresso coffee saucers.

Posted: **Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:29 am**

Yes, Jethro, YES!! I agree 100%. I'm right there... I've got the 3-a-day thing going fine but trying to lose with out "dieting."

Posted: **Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:40 am**

Jethro wrote:To me NOS is like learning to drive. At first you have to be very conscious about everything, but once you do it x number of times, it becomes automatic.

The second battle - the hardest one IMHO - is to manage what you eat at the three meals, based on whatever criteria you are using, to create a calorie deficit yet not feel hungry and get used to eating "normal" for you.

Hopefully, as Reinhard said, shame will eventually prevent you from piling on more food that you really need on a normal plate. Otherwise, you may have to reduce your plates to espresso coffee saucers.

Thanks for the feedback, especially the car scenario...I'm trying to follow eating lower glycemic foods which no calorie counting involved thankfully..as for the shame, I can say a couple of my plates did bring a little on..

eleanoral thanks for the joke...I guess I feel like the deer with the shot gun

Posted: **Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:45 pm**

Dhack wrote:Yes, Jethro, YES!! I agree 100%. I'm right there... I've got the 3-a-day thing going fine but trying to lose with out "dieting."

To me the word diet brings negative connotations. It brings images of hunger, deprivation, suffering etc.

Therefore, i think of NOS as a normal eating style.

Posted: **Tue Dec 17, 2013 2:41 pm**

With all due respect, and even knowing what Reinhard says about shame, I submit that shame for those with eating disorders is a poor motivation for long term maintenance. Many heavy people already feel a tremendous amount of shame regarding their eating and their bodies but do not reduce their eating permanently. In fact, the shame has been found ti increase eating and weight.

I still say that the sense of hunger and satiety can be used for most-not all, as some people really do have little sense of either- to direct the amount of food they eat off their plate. But even that can be used against yourself incorrectly. Feeling shame for getting too full often slows down the process of detaching from overeating. Paradoxical but true.

I'm reading a book just right now on dealing with anxious thoughts. I still think about No S a fair amount during the day, but that doesn't bother me as much as other topics. The book is telling me something I already knew but didn't realize I wasn't doing. It says basically make room for all thoughts, but don't let them direct your behavior unless they are useful for what you really want to accomplish. The author admits it takes practice and has a lot of ways to work with thoughts so that you can have even disturbing ones but still go on with the activities of your day. The writer is a doctor who says the anxious thoughts he used to have a great deal of about his competence still appear even years later, but he just doesn't give them much value. He just keeps doing his work, and staying involved with the things he wants to be.

It dovetails what I said on another thread: what will we do with our time when we are not eating or being preoccupied with eating? What else is there to think about and do?

Deb, I actually have some other thoughts on this and OCD. I'll write you about it later. I think we could both use it to practice.

Posted: **Tue Dec 17, 2013 5:06 pm**

What is the book called?

Posted: **Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:47 pm**

I agree with the others, sadly it takes a lot of time--months and months--to truly be comfortable in having established a habit. What's more, there is the added difficulty (well at least for me!) that sometimes once a habit feels established & some of the weight is coming off, that's exactly when the undermining of NoS / breaking the habit bit by bit starts happening, bringing the possibility of going back to square 1.

So I would start with the premise that being HIGHLY suspicious of oneself & thinking about NoS quite a bit is (sadly) a fairly normal stage at the beginning... and when I say 'at the beginning' I mean a long long time...

Posted: **Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:00 pm**

oolala53 wrote:With all due respect, and even knowing what Reinhard says about shame, I submit that shame for those with eating disorders is a poor motivation for long term maintenance. Many heavy people already feel a tremendous amount of shame regarding their eating and their bodies but do not reduce their eating permanently. In fact, the shame has been found ti increase eating and weight.

I still say that the sense of hunger and satiety can be used for most-not all, as some people really do have little sense of either- to direct the amount of food they eat off their plate. But even that can be used against yourself incorrectly. Feeling shame for getting too full often slows down the process of detaching from overeating. Paradoxical but true.

I'm reading a book just right now on dealing with anxious thoughts. I still think about No S a fair amount during the day, but that doesn't bother me as much as other topics. The book is telling me something I already knew but didn't realize I wasn't doing. It says basically make room for all thoughts, but don't let them direct your behavior unless they are useful for what you really want to accomplish. The author admits it takes practice and has a lot of ways to work with thoughts so that you can have even disturbing ones but still go on with the activities of your day. The writer is a doctor who says the anxious thoughts he used to have a great deal of about his competence still appear even years later, but he just doesn't give them much value. He just keeps doing his work, and staying involved with the things he wants to be.

It dovetails what I said on another thread: what will we do with our time when we are not eating or being preoccupied with eating? What else is there to think about and do?

Deb, I actually have some other thoughts on this and OCD. I'll write you about it later. I think we could both use it to practice.

Let's make something clear. As far as NOS is concerned I'm a follower. I have not made any mods. I follow pure vainilla NOS and glass ceiling, as much as I can. I don't claim to be perfect but neither is anyone else.

With that being said, according to Reinhard:

Episode 3: No S Diet Rules - Everyday Systems

.... anymore, because it confronts you head on, your whopping plates will gradually shame you into less whopping ones.

http://everydaysystems.com/podcast/episode.php?id=3

Episode 8: Glass Ceiling - Everyday Systems

... Shame has been around for all of recorded history and probably then some. It isn't going ...

http://everydaysystems.com/podcast/episode.php?id=8

I'm merely reporting what Reinhard said. However, everyone is free to follow "their own personal NOS system."

If you have any issues with any components of NOS you do not like, email Reinhard.

Who knows, just like we now have the New Atkins, you may create the new NOS.

Posted: **Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:30 pm**

Didn't mean to offend.

I am on your side with regard to being a faithful and expressive fan of No S, Jethro!

And yes, I did suggest a long time ago to Reinhard that he consider teaming with someone from the world of eating disorders to have a version of the book specifically for compulsive eaters/bingers for whom some of the original text would not be helpful. I think it would be a brilliant addition to the canon. I'm guessing he's more interested in habit theory as it applies to more issues, since he told us once on the boards that he had been approached about another book on that. He admitted he never was an emotional eater, so it's understandable why it's not his focus.

But I was responding to the topic of the thread, which was about obsessive thinking about dieting, which is an aspect of eating disorders. I should have directed my comment to Nosnacker specifically. Sorry for the confusion.

Unless requested, I'll send my sources regarding shame to Deb privately.

Posted: **Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:20 pm**

NoSnacker wrote:K, I was wondering how long does it takes to stop thinking of No S all day..kind of feels like I'm on a diet...I'm almost done with the book and I'm on two sites..thinking No S ALL day long, among others things as well.

I think this is why I never used HabitCal and the Daily Check-In until I'd been here for seven years (I don't use it for the purpose it is intended). For me, using either of those would have made this a "diet."

Posted: **Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:44 am**

oolala53 wrote:Didn't mean to offend. I am on your side with regard to being a faithful and expressive fan of No S, Jethro!

And yes, I did suggest a long time ago to Reinhard that he consider teaming with someone from the world of eating disorders to have a version of the book specifically for compulsive eaters/bingers for whom some of the original text would not be helpful. I think it would be a brilliant addition to the canon. I'm guessing he's more interested in habit theory as it applies to more issues, since he told us once on the boards that he had been approached about another book on that. He admitted he never was an emotional eater, so it's understandable why it's not his focus.

But I was responding to the topic of the thread, which was about obsessive thinking about dieting, which is an aspect of eating disorders. I should have directed my comment to Nosnacker specifically. Sorry for the confusion.

Unless requested, I'll send my sources regarding shame to Deb privately.

No offense taken.

I only wanted to make it clear that shame is part of NOS, not my invention.

Since we do not interface at a personal level, sometimes a written message could be misinterpreted by the reader because it lacks the interpersonal cues of personal communications.

Besides, I'm very thick skinned and am rarely offended by anything, never by an anonymous comment on a board.

Life is too short to worry about these things.

Posted: **Wed Dec 18, 2013 10:03 am**

wosnes wrote:
NoSnacker wrote:I think this is why I never used HabitCal and the Daily Check-In until I'd been here for seven years (I don't use it for the purpose it is intended). For me, using either of those would have made this a "diet."
Hi, this is my 3rd attempt, and mmmm, you might be on to something..I saw a sea of red piling on in the past 2 attempts that mentally I could not handle, in part because I'm a perfectionist, I see things in black or white..which of course I'm working on because I'm human and can't be perfect in all that I do. I am also a list keeper

I do love the habitcal, kind of like a report card...mmmm more to ponder.

If I find that it is causing me stress I'll abandon until I'm stronger...

Thanks everyone for caring enough to post..I'm sure not only are you helping me but others as well.

Group Hug!!

Posted: **Mon Dec 23, 2013 6:21 am**

Must apologize if I'm being repetitive as I didn't read the other responses first. Anyway I've been doing NoS about five months and have noticed a pattern among other members who started around the same time. In the beginning we checked in religiously each day, sometimes more than once. I for one thought about it a great deal. I even dreamt about it & others were reporting the same thing.

After about four months, a lot us of started reporting that they were feeling kind of blah. Shortly after that people started saying that they no longer felt the need to check in everyday. In retrospect, I think the blah feeling was the empty space that was previously occupied by NoS.

No more blah feeling now & no more overthinking my eating. This way of eating feels automatic & natural now although my S days are still difficult for me so probably obsess more about my eating on those days. Anyway hope that helps some & good luck!

Linda

Posted: **Mon Dec 23, 2013 7:34 pm**

Lpearlmom wrote:No more blah feeling now & no more overthinking my eating. This way of eating feels automatic & natural now although my S days are still difficult for me so probably obsess more about my eating on those days. Anyway hope that helps some & good luck!Linda

This is good news Linda...I can feel after 3 weeks it is starting to taper off..but I do feel I want to be on the boards more than I probably need to, but then again if not for others like you encouraging it might be harder to get by..thanksss...

Posted: **Mon Dec 23, 2013 9:03 pm**

Deb, online encouragement has been shown to be very helpful in getting people over bumps. If it takes several months, so what?

Hey, did you read Christa's blog (on Spark) on the book Brain Over Binge?

Posted: **Mon Dec 23, 2013 9:25 pm**

oolala53 wrote:Deb, online encouragement has been shown to be very helpful in getting people over bumps. If it takes several months, so what?

Hey, did you read Christa's blog (on Spark) on the book Brain Over Binge?

Ya, I did not that long ago....sounds interesting Brain Over Binge...might see if available as kindle version...yup on Amazon for $8.99...I'll have to read the reviews.

Did you ever hear of it? Now I can go back to the sparkpage, what is her screen name?

Posted: **Mon Dec 23, 2013 11:52 pm**

Here's her sparkpage: http://www.sparkpeople.com/mypage.asp?id=CHRISTASP

Posted: **Tue Dec 24, 2013 10:17 am**

oolala53 wrote:Here's her sparkpage: http://www.sparkpeople.com/mypage.asp?id=CHRISTASP

That is so strange,,,,she has to accept you as a friend to open her sparkpage...BUT it is strange because I did read somewhere about the book "brain over binge" just yesterday..

I actually started to read a sampling last night...

Is she on our No S team?

Posted: **Tue Dec 24, 2013 1:34 pm**

look at my daily check in thread and you'll get an idea. i used to check in every day to report how i was doing with no s. the last 2 months i've only reported about monthly. lately i have been checking in more because the holidays are always a hard time for me. but yeah, it took a while for me to realize it was ok to not obsess about food. i was counting calories and on a diet from August 2011 through Feb 2013 when i started this. so that's a long time to have diet head. has taken me almost a year to get over it. can't say i still dont' think about calories at times, but i don't track them or worry about it. takes a while. like getting over a break up with diet you.

Posted: **Tue Dec 24, 2013 6:43 pm**

Deb, she is on the Living Binge Free team. She has another username and knows lots of people there. It's Christina. Christasp. She said she wanted a place where she could talk more without a lot of naysayers because among the bingers and in the eating disorder literature, there is so much emphasis on figuring out feelings and triggers and everything else when it's to some degree irrelevant to the eating. You know, if the problem ain't food, eating won't fix it. Just do the next thing that life delivers. Take care of your schooling, your job, your friendships, your hobbies, your family- whatever stage you are at in life. That's where the focus should be and can be when you just let the urges be there without acting on them. That's where I get the author, Kathryn Hansen, is coming from.

Of course, Kathryn was never actually overweight and was actually rather slim. She was lucky enough to be able to recognize that and accept it, so she also stopped trying to lose weight. That will help curb bingeing, too.

Posted: **Wed Dec 25, 2013 9:56 am**

Thanks Oolala, found her and added her as a friend. I did end up buying the book..what worked for the author might work for me too...

I remember was I was 39ish I tried being bulimic but it hurt too damn much..what was sick about it I had a younger sister living with me that was bulimic and anorexic who was teaching me how, when, and what foods worked best...sick I know....

I might give her a copy of the book after I read it...I'm sure she practices this behavior at times still.

Everyday Systems

How long does it take......

How long does it take......

Obsessing on No S

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