Leafy's Misery and Euphoria

leafy_greens · Post by **leafy_greens** » Mon May 03, 2010 9:03 pm

Continued from this thread.

I made it to the weekend with only eating 6 cookies this week (huge improvement.) I was ready to really live it up on my first S days. You see, previously, I would restrict my other meals just to save room for the sweets. But this time I decided to eat full junk food meals on the S days, and it was a good thing I did because I felt MUCH less deprived.

On Saturday, I had a normal breakfast of cereal and peanut butter toast. For lunch I went to Sonic. Normally, I would starve all day just to not feel guilty about the milkshake, eat the milkshake, then graze on more sweets after getting home. Not this time. I got a grilled cheese sandwich, tater tots, and a sundae, and didn't feel guilty about eating the whole thing. When I got home, I still wanted chocolate, so I allowed myself to have half a big bar, it since it was an S day. I ate dinner at Quiznos. Normally, I'd get a small sandwich and then eat cookies the rest of the night. But this time I got a medium sandwich, Sun chips (which I NEVER let myself get), and a diet Mountain Dew (I still couldn't bring myself to drink full calorie soda.) I ate most of the meal, and after I was done I felt GOOD. I didn't even go home and eat sweets, even though it was an S day. That to me was such a huge victory, to overcome that feeling, even for just one night.

I planned to really live it up again on Sunday. So I went to IHOP and let myself get something I never do - a Belgian Waffle, WITH syrup AND whipped cream AND potatoes with ketchup. I ate most of it, but I didn't feel stuffed, and mentally I felt so good afterwards. I had a late lunch of pasta at home, and also allowed myself to graze on a sort of large amount of smores trail mix, chocolate and a granola bar. But it's ok. I'm learning to forgive myself.

I've eaten through all the "bars" in my house as part of a meal, and I'm looking forward to buying some "real" food for meals. It was difficult last week to purchase full-fat cheese and tomato sauce with sodium. I instinctively bought Smart Balance though. Its hard to get out of the mindset where everything you purchase has to be low-fat, low-this low-that. If I limit my full fat portions, it will be more satisfying than lots of low fat garbage. Shockingly, I found myself craving hummus with my carrots. Shocking because it isn't a sweet. I hope I can eventually stop eating too many snack type foods during meals. It's difficult because I'm a vegetarian for 6 years, and sometimes I don't know what to eat (even though I have dairy.) I can't figure out if I started doing it as a way to restrict my eating, or if I really do feel bad for animals. It's another thing that I'm questioning about myself. I don't want to feel like a failure for giving up, but failure is another aspect of diet that I need to stop dwelling on. I'm not sure I agree with the "red days" on the calendar. It almost feels like punishment.

I do like the concept of my meals having a "beginning and end." Its very hard right now to eat at a table because I don't really have one. I live alone and still am eating my meals in front of tv/computer. I'm able to not have seconds ok, but I don't know how to make a "celebration out of" eating a meal yet. S-days were pretty exciting, but my daily life is almost sad, coming home and eating alone on the coffee table.

It's a habit of mine to stay at work late til about 5:30 or 6, snack because I'm not eating dinner, go shopping, not get home til 7:30 or 8, and eat dinner late. This week I've made sure I can get home right around 6, and eat right away before I start snacking. I haven't been able to leave the house after dinner because eating has made me sleepy. I read this is a sign of hypoglycemia. I think my body is in shock to what I'm doing. But at least I have eaten a meal around the same time everyday instead of snacks. I hope eventually, once my body is accustomed, I'll get the energy back to go shopping after dinner or do other errands that I need to do.

It's Monday again, and once again I'm in misery. However, the physiological symptoms from last week have subsided a little bit. I am struggling hard with the mouth hunger and boredom. I'm trying to stick it out the 21 days like everyone says. I need to be retrained like Pavlov's dog. I feel dumb, though. Dumb because I'm addicted to something so stupid. It's not like I'm a meth addict - it's sweets, like I'm a freaking 2 year old! How embarassing. Can't wait til I'm a food adult.

BA, Thank you for your insight on Geneen Roth. I checked into attending her workshops but never got around to it. I think that she gets some things right, like the self-love, but intuitive eating is about giving yourself whatever you want, whenever you want. I think this is wrong, because you don't give yourself whatever you want in other areas of your life, with shopping, etc. So why with food? Intuitive eating is making less and less sense. I tried the food bag for a while, and I think that contributed to more issues because now, I'm afraid to be without food. I need it in my purse, in my desk, all over. Intuitive teaches you to listen for stomach growl, but if you eat as soon as it growls, it makes you fear hunger because the stomach growl, not your common sense, is determining when to eat. Now as such a wealthy society, we have less need than ever to fear going hungry, yet we are afraid to feel hunger or be without food at any time. We have all these people literally telling us to be in fear of a stomach growl because, oh no, it's going to slow up your metabolism, 3 meals will weigh you down, etc. How can eating 6 meals give you more energy? Your body is spending its energy and strength burning something all the time.

To Oohlala, Trust me, I'm grabbing and holding on. I mentioned somewhere else that finding No S is like finding a soulmate relationship. I can't wait for the day when I'm "normal" again. I feel like it's within reach.

leafy_greens · Post by **leafy_greens** » Thu May 06, 2010 3:32 am

About to lose it. Sitting here thinking about how easy it would be to eat just ONE sweet... Some of my s'mores trail mix... I would feel so much better...

My physiological symptoms are still lessening, but mentally I'm not doing so well at all. Still obsessed as much as ever. Still have mouth hunger. I keep dreaming of this box of Ghirardelli dark chocolate brownies, and how badly I want to buy them, make them, and eat most of them, perhaps with ice cream on top... Plotting and scheming the weekend, and where I can fit in a Sonic milkshake, brownies and a few other things. I keep thinking, are green days REALLY important? I can just start over tomorrow. The world will keep turning if I give in right now. The only thing keeping me sane is that I'm about to go to bed, and I also got the No S book in the mail today. Perhaps there's some moral support in there. Tomorrow I have a dentist appointment at 7 am, so I won't be able to eat breakfast for a while. I'm not looking forward to that at all. Today, a co-worker brought in a whole cake and offered it to me. I said no thanks, and my other co-worker said, "DID I JUST HEAR YOU TURN DOWN CAKE?!" and I said "Yeah I don't wana talk about it!... I'm trying something new." She said "you're trying something new?!" and I said yes and let it drop.

Sinnie · Post by **Sinnie** » Thu May 06, 2010 5:29 pm

I'm at work right now and so I can't properly respond, but I really relate to a lot that you have posted. I love reading your entries! Don't feel alone, I am in the exact same position as you. Although I've screwed up a lot recently, and just want to get ONE day right...Good luck!!!

bluebunny27 · Post by **bluebunny27** » Thu May 06, 2010 5:34 pm

Geesh, I am tired just reading the description there, Leafy, running around, stopping here, stopping there, work-work-work-snack-snack-run-work-snack-run... I think I need a break ... from READING !

I would suggest avoiding eating at restaurants if you want to lose weight. You can save money and it'll be better for your health too, double bonus points.

Me, I find it easier to say no to sweets altogether (most days)

If I have one it is hard to stop ... also it's not very satisfying. You have one cookie and it doesn't satisfy you so you crave for one more and then you feel guilty for failing so you have 3 more and so on until half the bag is gone ... and then you think : "Why did I just eat 1,500 calories within 10 minutes ??" and your whole week is ruined trying to burn those extra calories, heh.

I am restricting sweets a lot these days and I find my cravings are not as strong when I do that ... I would only have a cookie or a tiny piece of cake once in a while, not on a regular basis. Those things are really not good to eat too often, lots of calories and they leave you feeling hungry again 10 minutes later.

Cheers !

Marc

38 Years Old, 5'10" Tall
Nov. 1st. 2008 : 280 Pounds
Nov. 1st. 2009 : 190 Pounds
(1 Year : - 90 Pounds)

Current Weight : 195 Pounds

leafy_greens · Post by **leafy_greens** » Mon May 10, 2010 4:53 pm

If last week was a 10 in difficulty, I'd say this week was a 9. Slightly easier, but still VERY difficult. My S-days weren't fun. I planned all week that I was going to go buy and make a box of Ghirardelli Dark Chocolate brownies and make them into ice cream sundaes with caramel, nuts, and whipped cream. I was looking forward to it so much. So I made the brownies on Saturday, and then quickly got into my old habits. I ate the whole pan of them by Saturday night. Even though it was an S-day, I felt like such a failure, and tried so hard to forgive myself, but I couldn't, and I did almost the same thing on Sunday, finishing off the quart of ice cream because there were no brownies left. I was so full of dessert that I barely ate regular food all weekend. I had a few slices of pizza in between, but my whole plan of going to Sonic again for grilled cheese and tots, and IHOP again for a delicious belgian waffle, all got shot to hell. I ate so much of the brownies and ice cream that I couldn't even eat anything else. I don't think that this is what S-days are supposed to turn into. I felt so horrible that I just wanted Monday to come so I could start over. Getting back into the structure is, today, something that I'm actually relishing rather than dreading like last week because it's the safety valve to get me out of the binging. Yes I screwed up. But I learned. After being on a "hunger high" all week, I was able to feel a clear distinction from eating normally and eating crap, and what crap does to my body. Even on S-days I still need to keep my meals somewhat structured, or else the sweets aren't going to taste good at all. I got to the point this weekend that I didn't even want anymore, I was just eating in order to finish what was there, and because, well, it's an S-day, so I have to get my sweets in NOW. I have to wait another week now to go to Sonic. Maybe this will teach me a lesson.

Sinnie · Post by **Sinnie** » Wed May 12, 2010 11:47 pm

Don't worry, I learned the same lesson. Believe me. I have found it works best to still follow the three meal structure. Then if I snack a bit, have a dessert it's okay, because I tend not to binge as much when I eat real proper food throughout the day. Keep going, you will do better next weekend, it really is a learning process!

leafy_greens · Post by **leafy_greens** » Thu May 13, 2010 12:01 am

Week 2 seems harder than Week 1. I feel like I'm going to collapse into sweets at any moment. Two more days til I can binge

again.

leafy_greens · Post by **leafy_greens** » Mon May 17, 2010 6:23 pm

I can't bear the thought that I will not have an S-day for 5 more days! At this moment I want to crawl in bed where nobody can judge me, with a bag of M&M's and cry, like Kirstie Alley did on Fat Actress where she stayed in bed for 2 weeks eating twinkies. I'm not even looking forward to dinner, no matter how good it is, because there won't be chocolate! I'm on week 3, isn't it supposed to be easier by now?!?! I'm barely making it to S-days at all. Saturday I had M&M's for breakfast at 6 am, before my workout! I won't mention what I ate the rest of the weekend.

Kathleen · Post by **Kathleen** » Mon May 17, 2010 7:18 pm

leafy_greens,
I think you'll find there are many others of us whose years of dieting led to such food obsession and shame. Personally, I declared S Days to start at midnight, and I literally got up to wait for midnight. That's OK. I don't do that anymore. Just hang on... The psychological benefit of this diet is beyond description. I don't think the author of the diet quite appreciates it because he was too young to have been on diets for decades and experience the backlash that comes with all those years of starving and bingeing.
Kathleen
PS. My all time record was 4,000 calories of caramel macademian clusters. You couldn't pay me $1,000 to repeat that experinence because the stomach ache that resulted was memorable!

leafy_greens · Post by **leafy_greens** » Fri May 21, 2010 8:33 pm

Kathleen, I sure hope you're right. Today is my 23rd day of perfect compliance. According to everyone, something magical is supposed to happen after 21. I feel nothing but the same chocolate cravings I felt before. I have stuck to the three meals and no longer have headaches (yay...?), but I'm afraid the mouth hunger will never vanish. It's taking an unrealistic amount of will power for me not to collapse. Once again, I'm itching for breakfast to come tomorrow so I can dig into the bag of M&M's. I still have half a large bag from last week that I had to hide so I wouldn't see it. I have been thinking about that bag every single day after my large meals that are supposed to be fulfilling, but aren't. My clothes are tight again after loosening the first 2 weeks. I read how people's weight goes up and down 5 lbs every week and this is supposedly normal. Hopefully this is working. I just don't have much faith at this point, other than reading that it worked for other people, so it has to work for me too. But when?

Kathleen · Post by **Kathleen** » Fri May 21, 2010 9:48 pm

It was months and months of stuffing myself to the point of having stomach aches before I stopped thinking about food between meals. It must have been 7 or 8 months. That was after 33 years of careening from one diet to another. If I don't lose another pound, I'm glad I'm on this diet.
Kathleen

Scrybil · Post by **Scrybil** » Sat May 22, 2010 1:43 pm

I had several years of absence of food thoughts in the Overeaters Anonymous HOW program(3 meals a day,nothing in between), but tired ofthe cult-like adherence to the food plan, the daily calls to my sponsor, the black & whiteness of it all. But I DID get to the point that my every waking thought was not about food - a huge relief to me. The concept was "Once you give yourfoodaway (ie commit it to your sponsor) you no longer have to think about it. And limiting myself to only three eating opportunities each day really helped.

I'm hoping that the aspects of the NoS diet that are similar will help me with the thoughts you're talking about......without strict obedience to an organization and its doctrines.

My goal = healthy eating, healthy emotions, realistic expectations

leafy_greens · Post by **leafy_greens** » Thu May 27, 2010 11:54 pm

I have had almost a month of perfect compliance. I haven't had the shakes since about the first week. I only have a headache about once a week now. I still want to eat chocolate 24/7. That hasn't gotten any easier. I sit here, night after night, absolutely dying for Saturday morning to get here. Literally living for the weekend and thinking constantly about what I'm going to have when it gets here. I currently have 2 large chocolate bars stockpiled in the fridge, and have a list of sweet shops I'm going to go this weekend. Barnes & Noble for a cookie and cheesecake, ice cream, waffles. I'm relieved that Memorial day is Monday, which means an extra S day. I'm completely going to collapse come Saturday breakfast. I keep thinking of Kathleen saying it took her 7-8 months to stop her obsession, and I really don't know how I'm going to make it that long, feeling like this. Reinhard said 21 days, but it's been longer than that and I don't feel any fewer cravings. Since I no longer have physiological symptoms, I don't have headaches as an excuse to eat chocolate anymore, and now I'm really having to face my cravings and what is making me have them. But I can't figure out why or how to stop them. I hope so bad that this feeling doesn't last for 7-8 months. I thought that No S was supposed to make me less obsessed, but I have been spending every waking moment thinking of all the sweets I want. I feel more focused on sweets simply because I can't have them whenever I want, and I have to make lists and plans in order to squeeze all my cravings in on the weekend.

Kathleen · Post by **Kathleen** » Fri May 28, 2010 12:20 am

It got easier after about 3 weeks, but it took 7 - 8 months for the obsession to end.

leafy_greens · Post by **leafy_greens** » Fri May 28, 2010 12:33 am

It's easier in the aspect that I don't have headaches and shakiness, but mentally it's still very, very difficult.

Kathleen · Post by **Kathleen** » Fri May 28, 2010 12:37 am

But it has gotten easier... It didn't happen suddenly for me. It happened very gradually. Now it is so easy it is natural. It seems strange to see people snacking.
Kathleen

kccc · Post by **kccc** » Fri May 28, 2010 2:07 am

Leafy, I am so sorry that you're having such a hard time.

I hope that you see the lessening of physical symptoms as a positive sign.

Have you considered a therapist to help with some of the obsession levels? Also, I just finished Geneen Roth's "Women, Food, and God," and was struck by some of her ideas. (She's evidently written a great deal on compulsive eating.)

Best wishes. I do hope that things get better for you.

leafy_greens · Post by **leafy_greens** » Wed Jun 02, 2010 4:00 pm

I couldn't take it anymore. I had my first red day after over one month of perfect compliance (and after 3 straight Memorial day weekend S days.) I don't know how I can keep doing this. It was supposed to become easier by now. It hasn't. I'm ready to throw in the towel and just have as many red days as I want. It's not the seconds or the snacking. It's the sweets. I can't live without them for 5 days every week.

BeingGreen · Post by **BeingGreen** » Wed Jun 02, 2010 4:33 pm

So don't live without the sweets. Start building a "two" No S habit--no snacks and no seconds. Have one small dessert each day. (That's what my kids do and they seem quite satisfied.) If you find you lose some weight, great! If you don't lose weight, you really want to lose some weight, then you could begin to drop sweets to half time (say every other day). No S is not about torture at all. And I infer from your posts that you feel absolutely tortured on NoS. I think No s is about making deliberate choices and being in balance. It's about feeling somewhat lighter rather than somewhat heavier.

I'm curious if you felt equally tortured on other diets.

Just my two cents.

leafy_greens · Post by **leafy_greens** » Wed Jun 02, 2010 4:51 pm

The only other diet I've really done is intuitive eating, where you get to eat whatever you want. That wasn't torture as much as it was depressing because I went overboard all day long when I thought I was hungry but wasn't.

Yes, I may have to do 2 S's for a while, but I know myself. It's not going to be a "small dessert." I know that NO S isn't supposed to be about torture, and that's why it's frustrating to me to see everyone else so calm about giving up sweets. I think I have way more sugar issues than most people... I'm ready to rip stuff apart.

Yesterday on Dr. Oz, Carnie Wilson was on talking about how she was a sugar addict at the age of 4 and would sit in the kitchen eating a dry box of cake mix. She's probably the only person I've heard of who is more obsessed than I am, and she has obviously never gotten over it, so it's pretty disheartening.

I thought by reading others' pleasant experiences with NO S that the same would happen with me, but it hasn't. And I have strictly followed the rules for almost 5 weeks. Why don't I feel any different? I'm not talking about weight loss here (there has been none, but I'm not overweight to begin with.) I thought the obsession was supposed to be gone by now. I was so hopeful at first, now losing hope that it will ever work.

idontknow · Post by **idontknow** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:25 am

Hi Leafy,

I had a similar experience to you - although on a smaller scale. I did a perfect 20 days and then couldn't take it any more, spent a week eating whatever I liked and then started again, but decided I would tackle the 5pm hunger slot - which is my big downfall.
If you don't want/need to lose weight - what do you want to gain from this? If you want to kick the sugar habit then a good first step is to limit the sugar to once a day, then every other day... etc.
You seem to be very distressed by what you are putting yourself through and long term that is not going to work. Be kind to yourself and take small steps towards your goal. Even if you have a large dessert every day to begin with - it's better than eating sweets all day long

leafy_greens · Post by **leafy_greens** » Tue Jun 08, 2010 7:03 pm

I have had 7 days in a row of red days (11 days including S days.) But what good are S days if they're the same as red days? Everyday is a "new" day that I try to start over, but it never works and ends in failure. I try to remind myself of the "euphoria" I felt when going to bed hungry and waking up hungry, and how good it felt to eat sweets on the weekend. But it's not enough to convince me anymore. I really appreciate everyone's encouragement but I feel too overwhelmed to get back on track. I don't want to even get back on track if I'm going to have to deal with the misery along with the euphoria. I'd rather just feel a steady stream of normal (bingeing) and eat sweets when I want to, rather than the anguish of no dessert during the week.

kccc · Post by **kccc** » Tue Jun 08, 2010 8:37 pm

leafy_greens wrote:I'd rather just feel a steady stream of normal (bingeing) and eat sweets when I want to, rather than the anguish of no dessert during the week.

Can you re-frame this so it isn't quite so "either-or"? There ARE middle grounds... and "anguish" certainly isn't sustainable.

What's the smallest step you can take toward your goal?
- Can you do 2S's, which means dessert at each meal, but not between?
- Can you do a limited number of S's (on N-days only!)
- Other ideas??

(And what IS your goal? Weight control? Breaking sugar addiction?)

Where else can you get help? Sounds as if this board isn't enough, but perhaps you can find other resources...

Best wishes!!!!!!! You sound so miserable... hope something works for you.

leafy_greens · Post by **leafy_greens** » Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:33 pm

KCCC wrote:- Can you do 2S's, which means dessert at each meal, but not between?

That might work... I'll give it a try but it's very hard for me to "stop." While this would be a more sustainable option, it makes me feel like more of a failure because that's not how it's written "in the book" and therefore not tried and true as vanilla No S. It makes it, I guess, less legitimate in my view and therefore less of something that I actually need to stick with... But perhaps I'm overanalyzing it.

My goal is breaking sugar addiction... Then perhaps losing 10 pounds. I'm not overweight so it's not too pressing of an issue, but I do want to eventually lose it. I'm sick of being stuck in the same rut.

kccc · Post by **kccc** » Wed Jun 09, 2010 1:14 pm

leafy_greens wrote:While this would be a more sustainable option, it makes me feel like more of a failure because that's not how it's written "in the book" and therefore not tried and true as vanilla No S. It makes it, I guess, less legitimate in my view...

1) A lot of people "phase in" to Vanilla. It's quite common. I did that, though snacks were my issue.
2) The big message of No-S systems is MODERATION. Doing what YOU can do, and is best for YOU. It's not all-or-nothing.

You sound as if you have the same "perfectionist" tendencies that I have struggled with my whole life. The hardest thing to learn is that "babysteps will take you where you want to go"... and one big leap to perfection usually won't.

My advice: Set your goal lower... to the point that you think "well, duh! Of COURSE I can do THAT." If it's better than you were doing before - even marginally better - it's an accomplishment! Celebrate it, and pat yourself on the back. Then, once you have that baby-step down as a sustainable change, add another.

Here's some No-S reading that may help you:
http://everydaysystems.com/podcast/episode.php?id=13 pay special attention to the "self-recrimination" section
http://everydaysystems.com/bb/viewtopic ... highlight= My own modest contribution, that may help.

Good luck!!

leafy_greens · Post by **leafy_greens** » Wed Jun 09, 2010 1:43 pm

KCCC wrote:1) A lot of people "phase in" to Vanilla. It's quite common. I did that, though snacks were my issue.
2) The big message of No-S systems is MODERATION. Doing what YOU can do, and is best for YOU. It's not all-or-nothing.

This could be helpful. The appeal for No S to me was that it wasn't a diet, yet it had been tried and tested by many people as a diet. That's why I feel as if I have to stick to exactly what has been done by other people, or it won't work

KCCC wrote:You sound as if you have the same "perfectionist" tendencies that I have struggled with my whole life.

This is definitely true. I wonder if I'm going to have to try 12 times before I get it right, like was mentioned in the book.

KCCC wrote:My advice: Set your goal lower... to the point that you think "well, duh! Of COURSE I can do THAT." If it's better than you were doing before - even marginally better - it's an accomplishment! Celebrate it, and pat yourself on the back. Then, once you have that baby-step down as a sustainable change, add another.

One change that I've made is no longer eating breakfast at my desk. Even while struggling with sweets I'm still able to make myself eat breakfast at home, which seems healthier than at a desk. It makes me feel better that you and others have made small changes rather than vanilla perfection all at once. Thanks for responding.

leafy_greens · Post by **leafy_greens** » Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:02 pm

After thinking more about KCCC's advice, I have decided to tailor No S. I think that it's do-able if I have 3 meals a day with no snacks, but after dinner I will have one plate of dessert. That way it doesn't give me the fear of having a "small" dessert - it can be big - but I can only have one. This will still give me the delayed gratification aspect of No S, but not so delayed that it's torturing me. I feel a lot better about this. I was able to try it last night and felt ok, so let's see if it works...

kccc · Post by **kccc** » Thu Jun 10, 2010 7:10 pm

Sounds like a plan - and some thoughtful problem-solving!

Good luck!

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Thu Jun 10, 2010 11:23 pm

I wrote an incredibly even-longer long post than this and then felt sheepish because this is on your thread, so I transferred it to my daily check in. If anyone wants to read it, please go to June 10 on oolala53's thread.

Then I decided even the one I left here was too much, too, for all the world to see, so I moved it, too.

Final answer: I feel bad to hear how much this is hurting for you. I'm hoping I caught you at a "worst moment," or that it just helps for you to get it all out. You sound like you have a lot going for you, so please don't use this one area of difficulty in your life to hide the sparkly parts to yourself!

I do want you to be able to share freely here, but I hope you'll also let us try to help you with some of the stuff that supports the eating rules, and not just the eating.

When you're going through hell, just keep going. Winston Churchill.

Grammy G · Post by **Grammy G** » Sat Jun 12, 2010 1:38 pm

Hang on!! You are being waaaay to hard on yourself and not giving yourself credit! I suggest you read about everyone's journey who has posted on your thread. You will be amazed. Reread your own too..just to see what you felt was important at the moment. Remember you are allowed to take baby steps.. Good luck!

LoriLifts · Post by **LoriLifts** » Sat Jun 12, 2010 3:08 pm

Ditto what everyone has said!

I started No S over 2 years ago and am still working on turning the rules into habits! I've re-started more times than I can count! I still haven't completed a 21 day vanilla S challenge!

Despite all the failures, I know I'll reach my goals.

And so will you.

leafy_greens · Post by **leafy_greens** » Tue Jun 22, 2010 5:36 pm

I'm in an "I don't care" mode. Eating whatever I want, whenever I want. Don't know if I can come back to this.

For one week I did dessert every night after dinner. I binged a lot less on the weekend.

Thanks for the well wishes - I'm just so overwhelmed.

Sinnie · Post by **Sinnie** » Tue Jun 22, 2010 8:02 pm

Trust me leafy, I have been in your position more times than I care to remember. After a gazillion failures (seriously, I screwed up for years, tried other diets, always came back) I finally got my weight in check. And you know what, I still have dessert during the week. I just don't see the big deal with it. I fully understand it adds calories but I don't have it everyday, just if I really feel like it or there's something neat to try. My experience has been the MAIN factor in controlling weight is not binging. Period. Once I stopped doing that, even though I still snack way too much, eat dessert (i have a pretty miserable track record, I screw up probably 75% of the week, honestly) but my weight remains in the low 120's. I would love to lose 5 lbs but I screw up too much, my fault. However, I'm really happy with my current weight and when I am ready I'm sure I will get on a good streak and bring it down a bit. Please re-consider. Have your dessert, just don't binge!!! It's a start

leafy_greens · Post by **leafy_greens** » Tue Jun 22, 2010 8:13 pm

Sinnie - thanks for sharing your experience. Honestly, the past few weeks that I've been on vacation from No S, my bingeing has been a lot less than it was historically. I feel pretty good about that. But I don't "feel" skinny - that's the "euphoric" feeling I've alluded to - where you are on a high because of perfect compliance, and your mind is playing tricks on you and giving you endorphins. I have been snacking some and doing a moderate bit of dessert, but it seems like the more I get away from "the rules," the more bad habits are starting to creep back in. I don't want to fall back into full fledged bingeing mode. I'm not there right now. But I just want to "feel skinny" (mental state, not physical.) I don't right now, but I don't want to go back to misery even if I have a little euphoria.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:15 am

This is probably all part of your journey with No S. You don't have to be able to see when you might "come back" for it to happen. I could never tell what made the necessity to binge go away before I got into the rhythm of No S after 14 months of "trying." I think you know too much now for it not to keep coming together, even if it's in fits and starts.

leafy_greens · Post by **leafy_greens** » Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:02 am

In case anyone cares what I've been up to...

I have been doing with somewhat regularity, breakfast and lunch with no snacks, and dinner with whatever I want afterwards (even if it's a whole bag of M&M's.) I'm not happy about this, but I find it a lot more bearable to make it through work knowing I can have cake after dinner instead of five days from now. It makes it a lot easier to not snack at work and I have spent a lot less time "whimpering" and freaking out because I can't have chocolate. There are still no snacks in my desk drawer but sometimes I'll go raid my coworker's chocolate bag at 3pm. I try not to do this everyday but it happens sometimes.

I agree with what oohlala said - and it has been resonating with me during my break from the forum - that I know too much now for it not to help me. Even during my binges, which are sometimes every day after dinner, I find myself more aware and able to resist snacking during the day. Weightwise I am 145 (maybe three to five pounds heavier than when I started.) I'm not happy about this either. I hope that I can push my breakfast/lunch habits onto dinner and phase out the dessert for the weekends. But that's still a long way away. It is interesting how No S effects your thinking, even when you're on a break. Just more awareness. Honestly I don't know how I did a month of green days. I guess the excitement of starting something new? But now I'm a lot more jaded. Right now a green day is 3 meals, no snacks but large dessert after dinner. This has made my weekends a lot less crazy, but it's about all I can handle at the moment.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:11 am

Sorry you're feeling jaded. Guess what? I've fallen off the wagon, too. But what's the alternative? A diet? "One poached egg, one piece of toast with 1 teaspoon of butter, 1/2 cup strawberries"?

Don't give up hope just because you aren't implementing the plan right now. Just the fact of your awareness is progress. Let's make a pact to keep re-visiting a list of reasons to eat sane and lose weight. Not mean reasons. I posted a list on sparkpeople on the Beck Diet thread. I've got some of them on an index card, too. I vow to look at them after I eat a few more handfuls of cheesy popcorn.

kccc · Post by **kccc** » Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:17 am

Hi Leafy,

Thanks for checking back in to let us know how you have been doing! It sounds as if you're at a stable place, even if it's not where you want to be long term.

I have a concept that may (may!) help, that I call "5 degrees of change". Here's where I initially discuss it. http://everydaysystems.com/bb/viewtopic ... highlight= The big idea is to make incremental progress, at a rate that doesn't feel too stressful.

Hope that you continue to move in the direction you want to go. (And hope to see you around as you have time... )

Very best wishes.

KCCC

leafy_greens · Post by **leafy_greens** » Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:01 am

Thanks guys, I'll keep that in mind.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Tue Aug 17, 2010 4:32 am

I have still been floundering. However, I had a green day today, and am hoping for the best. If I could have one good weekend, I think I'd get some renewed energy. What about you?

leafy_greens · Post by **leafy_greens** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 12:02 am

I realized that I wasn't trying to lose weight while on No S, but I did anyway. I just didn't notice because I don't weigh myself. Since being "off", I have gained it back, probably 5-10. Anyways, I have come to the conclusion that exercise doesn't do much for you, as far as burning calories goes. What it does do is keep you on a schedule and keep your blood pumping, which I guess is good for your health but doesn't really affect weight (at least mine). And it also keeps you active and preoccupied so you're not eating for a couple of hours! That's mostly where the calorie deficit comes in. Walking for a half an hour only burns like 150 calories, yippy. Losing weight is 95% eating, 5% exercise! If you can't control the eating, then exercising doesn't really matter. I know people are going to jump down my throat for this, but this has been my personal true experience/observation. Eating is THE key, and EVERY bite counts. And yes, this realization is very depressing. Everyday, I think about No S and how "successful" I was while being on it for 21 days (even though it made me mentally wacky). I always think "today is the day I'm starting back" and then I'll start to feel that mouth hunger, and then I'll get war flashbacks of how awful I felt mentally while on No S, and then I just say "screw it" and go for my co-worker's candy bag. Just like any diet, once you screw up once, the snowball has already started to roll down hill. I can't get away from that feeling of perfection-or-nothing. So I guess I'll continue being fluffy and eating what I want. It's better than the alternative of crying myself to sleep because I can't have chocolate.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 6:01 am

Sorry you're feeling so discouraged about No S. Do you think you are able to control your intake of chocolate when you do have it? I don't know if you would consider yourself on No S if you planned to have a small amount each day, but if that is the only thing that is holding you back, it seems a shame. There are some people on other diet sites who have lost and work some small amount of sweets in each day. But if you have enough food to eat and you're actually crying over not having chocolate, maybe there is a reason to curtail it... Only you can know. I hope you can find some peace with this issue soon.

leafy_greens · Post by **leafy_greens** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:23 pm

Maybe I was unclear but I'm not "on" No S right now, I just think about everyday how I wish I was, but can't make myself. The huge deterrent is how bad I felt while I was "on" it, so that's holding me from trying again. I did have 21 days of perfect compliance, a.k.a. perfect torture! Not exactly something that makes me want to try again

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 4:51 pm

If No S was such torture, why do you pressure yourself to be on it again? There is certainly no shame if it's not the plan for you. I guess I was trying to understand what was so bad about it so that you might come up with some acceptable mods. However, there are certainly other ways of eating well. I belong to Sparkpeople.com as well. It's free, but you do have to register to use it. You might consider going there and researching teams that are devoted to maintenance and then finding out from them what program different members used to get there. Spark will provide eating plans, if you like, but plenty of people use the plans from popular books and such and just modify them until they find the right balance. Sparkpeople recommends cutting calories moderately, choosing mostly "healthy foods," but not trying to cut out whole food groups or deny yourself so much that you end up going bonkers, and of course moving your body more. They emphasize lifestyle, though they do have losing and maintenance phases.

You might have to accept having backed off for awhile on better eating, but don't give up in your heart. You can get around this, just maybe not in the time frame you'd like.

Kathleen · Post by **Kathleen** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 7:52 pm

HI leafy_greens,

There's no shame in being a failure with this diet. Nearly all of us are refugees from other diet attempts and founds something about this diet that worked.

I want to pass on an idea for you that you might find helpful, and that idea is that you set aside eating and look into a strengthening program. I've only been on mine a little over a month, and it is pathetically easy (my kids really chuckled at my first attempts at what is called a chair stand, essentially getting up slowly and going back slowly into a chair). I think it is having a big impact on me and potentially on how I am doing with my weight, but it's too early to tell. I can say I'm feeling a lot better physically. I started with one 3 lb. weight and moved up to one 5 lb. weight this month, so it's not as if I'm killing myself with exertion.

The book I am using is Strong Women Stay Slim by Dr. Nelson. The program is three times per week for maybe 40 minutes. I'm so weak that I actually do the exercises one at a time throughout the day.

For me personally, I did manage to get through the first few weeks of torture with The No S Diet. Had I known of the impact of strengthening exercises on appetite, I would have started with strengthening exercises for a few months before attempting The No S Diet.

Have hope. There's a way for you. You just haven't found it yet.

Kathleen

PS. See one of my father's favorite sayings in my profile below.

PPS. See an excerpt from an interview the full length of which can be found at:

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/healthreport/s ... 969924.htm

If you look at the beginning of the except, it says that exercise is not the way to counterbalance caloric intake. That has been exactly my view all my life. I have exercised to feel better and never to lose weight.

Norman Swan: There's a non drug that does it which is exercise, particularly resistance exercise, building up your muscles.

Robert Lustig: Exactly, in fact exercise is the best treatment. The question is why does exercise work in obesity? Because it burns calories? That's ridiculous. Twenty minutes of jogging is one chocolate chip cookie, I mean you can't do it. One Big Mac requires three hours of vigorous exercise to work that off, that's not the reason that exercise is important, exercise is important for three reasons exclusive of the fact that it burns calories.

The first is it increases skeletal muscle insulin sensitivity, in other words it makes your muscle more insulin sensitive, therefore your pancreas can make less, therefore your levels can drop, therefore there's less insulin in your blood to shunt sugar to fat. That's probably the main reason that exercise is important and I'm totally for it.

The second reason that exercise is important is because it's the single best treatment to get your cortisol down. Cortisol is your stress hormone, it's the hormone that goes up when you are mega-stressed, it's the hormone that basically causes visceral fat deposition which is the bad fat and it has been tied to the metabolic syndrome. So by getting your cortisol down you're actually reducing the amount of fat deposited and it also reduces food intake. People think that somehow exercise increases food intake, it does not, it reduces food intake.

And then the third reason that exercise is important, which is somewhat not well known, but I'm trying to evaluate this at the present time, is that it actually helps detoxify the sugar fructose. Fructose actually is a hepato-toxin; now fructose is fruit sugar but we were never designed to take in so much fructose. Our consumption of fructose has gone from less than half a pound per year in 1970 to 56 pounds per year in 2003.

Norman Swan: It's the dominant sugar in these so-called sugar free jams for example that you buy, these sort of natural fruit jams.

Robert Lustig: Right, originally it was used because since it's not regulated by insulin it was thought to be the perfect sugar for diabetics and so it got introduced as that. Then of course high fructose corn syrup came on the market after it was invented in Japan in 1966, and started finding its way into American foods in 1975. In 1980 the soft drink companies started introducing it into soft drinks and you can actually trace the prevalence of childhood obesity, and the rise, to 1980 when this change was made.

Norman Swan: What is it about this, it's got more calories than ordinary sugar weight for weight hasn't it?

Robert Lustig: No, actually it's not the calories that are different it's the fact that the only organ in your body that can take up fructose is your liver. Glucose, the standard sugar, can be taken up by every organ in the body, only 20% of glucose load ends up at your liver. So let's take 120 calories of glucose, that's two slices of white bread as an example, only 24 of those 120 calories will be metabolised by the liver, the rest of it will be metabolised by your muscles, by your brain, by your kidneys, by your heart etc. directly with no interference. Now let's take 120 calories of orange juice. Same 120 calories but now 60 of those calories are going to be fructose because fructose is half of sucrose and sucrose is what's in orange juice. So it's going to be all the fructose, that's 60 calories, plus 20% of the glucose, so that's another 12 out of 60 -- so in other words 72 out of the 120 calories will hit the liver, three times the substrate as when it was just glucose alone.

That bolus of extra substrate to your liver does some very bad things to it.