Octavia is finally checking in!

[lpearlmom]

Hi Octavia!

I’d probably just enjoy those sweets your mom is making for you. Maybe you can make a mod to just have a small plate of sweets a day. That way it’ll still feel contained.

Either just enjoy your time and you can get back on track when you get back.

Have s great time and thanks for your comment on my thread.

Linda

[automatedeating]

She is tiny and frail, and will use the last of her strength to make these highly-processed sweet concoctions.

What imagery!

[Octavia]

Thanks, Linda & Auto! Glad you enjoyed my image of elderly Mum making puddings. When we arrived, she had made a ground rice pudding, and was waxing lyrical about some stuff she used to make when we were kids called ‘Rice Cremola’. I remembered it as horrid yellow stodge, but this newer version was actually quite nice! My DD asked for second helpings! It was probably what people call a ‘nursery pudding ‘ - the sort that has almost died out.

Anyway, I’m back now, and I didn’t do too badly. I can’t mark the days as green, but they did have some ‘N’ qualities, and no real descents into WTH. Looking forward to getting back on plan - I actually feel as if my body has changed a little. I have slightly more shape. Not looking forward to the next weigh-in though, as I’m sure I must have gained a wee bit.

[Octavia]

Have just had a ghastly experience in a phone shop. Went in with DH, who is going to New York tomorrow, wanted to check that his phone would work. Spoke to a young assistant girl who talked very fast and unclearly, who indicated that it would be better for DH to swap to another network provider as it would work out cheaper. One hour later we were still in the shop, with her talking about SIM cards and temporary numbers, and devices that came with this deal. We were both totally confused about what was going on, but as DH’s phone is for some reason attached to MY name, I had to do all the signing and so on. Well I was getting tireder and more frustrated with my own incomprehension of the situation, and then she suddenly thrust her phone in my hand and said I needed to now speak to customer services to get the ‘add on’ . My stress levels went through the roof, but I tried to stay calm...but then I answered the security questions wrong! The guy on the phone was totally unclear, asking for the number on my bank card, but meaning the account number not the card number, and so on...the girl in the shop then took the phone and got round this for me, but then at the next incomprehensible question I burst into tears and rushed out of the shop. I have never freaked out in a shop before. 😩

Of course I had to go back in to finish the transaction! I had to give them my bank card so they could take 89p off it, then put it back on again. She explained why this was, but again, I couldn’t follow her. So now I am at home sobbing in a darkened room. The thing is, only in hindsight can I explain what happened - at the time, genuinely couldn’t understand what the girl was saying, and what she was trying to do. She was really sweet when I went back in and she said sorry I had been upset. But it was largely her fault for being so unclear. Unless I just am really stupid which is a possibility! 😢

Now have no appetite whatsoever so might skip lunch.

[Octavia]

...on a positive note, the cheese that I accidentally left in mum’s fridge has just arrived in the post. 😂😂😂

She always seems slightly triumphant when we leave things (we have to take all the food with us, along with our clothes, gifts etc etc..) and she rings up to express her amazement that we have left a piece of cucumber or an apple. It’s so hilarious!

Have avoided coffee today, to see if it helps my anxious upset tummy things (I don’t get these everyday, it seems to happen at random). I can certainly report that despite the stress of my phone shop breakdown, I am as calm as anything right now. I do have a slight headache though.

[Octavia]

Went for a long walk with DH. Amazing how these days I can do a long walk on an empty stomach! At one point I would have been packing snacks, and being terrified of fainting half way through. Then was really hungry and enjoyed my dinner a lot.

I can feel a heavy S weekend coming on. Craving sweets. Feel the need to comfort myself after the phone shop humiliation...

[worth it]

Awww, Octavia!

Sorry to hear about the phone store debacle. It reminds me about how lucky I am since my brother in law is a manager at a cell phone company and handles all of our affairs through his employee account. I’m not sure I’d have the patience to deal with that stuff any longer.

I hope this weekend turns out better than you expected and enjoy those S days if you need to!

Hugs 🤗!

[Larkspur]

Phone stores represent the very worst of modern life. My husband always does it because it drives me bats--t. So sorry! I hope your husband is all straightened out with his phone!

[Octavia]

Thank you! It was an unpleasant experience. Husband is in New York and we are communicating via Messenger! I’m sure his phone would have been fine anyway.... but I have learned to be more wary of these phone shops - the youngsters who serve in them think nothing of keeping you hanging around for an hour. Oddly enough, after I felt ghastly for a day, I woke up on Saturday feeling great, as if it had all been a dream. And I think my reaction was entirely justified! Even though I embarrassed myself!

Thanks for your sympathy, worth it and Lark! 🙂

[Larkspur]

So glad you're feeling better How nice to wake up feeling great-- I am inclined to be a little ball of worries sometimes, and it's hard for me to do that. Good inspiration

[Octavia]

Thanks so much, Lark - you have no idea how much it means to me, to have this amazing support. 💠Do you think there could be a link between the fact that I let myself cry, and the fact that I recovered quickly from this incident? Is anxiety connected to holding things in and being afraid to show our feelings? It’s certainly making me think.

I did have a rather heavy S weekend with several doses of chocolate and ice cream. Yesterday I cooked a really nice dinner, but didn’t really enjoy it, I wasn’t hungry enough. I still don’t want to add rules to my S days, though: I want it to come from within, a decision to just hold back on the chocolate so I can enjoy my next meal.

What’s developing well for me is my N day behaviour. I’m finding I don’t need the calorific drinks so much, to tide me over. I’m less worried about filling up at meals, and am doing less virtual plating. I think my small, non-sweet desserts (basically a ramekin of muesli with milk, nuts, a few grapes and a bit of All Bran sprinkled on top!) were disagreeing with my stomach! Not sure I’m a high fibre person....😊

I’m learning a lot about which foods suit me. Before No S, I blamed chocolate for everything, mental or physical....but now I’m more able to discern which of the other foods really agree with me.

[Octavia]

Just thinking more about the crying incident. I know as an assertive adult, it would have been more appropriate to express anger in the phone shop, in a calm and respectful way of course. But was it better to cry? Critical words, no matter how calmly spoken, alienate and make people defensive...whereas crying shocks them, worries them, makes them realise they have pushed you too far, and perhaps makes them think about their own behaviour.

Not sure I want to add crying to my arsenal of everyday behaviours, though...

[Soprano]

Thanks so much, Lark - you have no idea how much it means to me, to have this amazing support. 💠Do you think there could be a link between the fact that I let myself cry, and the fact that I recovered quickly from this incident? Is anxiety connected to holding things in and being afraid to show our feelings? It’s certainly making me think.


.

That's a really interesting point, you could well be right. Glad you are feeling better

[Larkspur]

Hope your husband is liking NYC!

I think that's insightful about the crying-- I think it's probably good that we don't all react like model citizens all the time. I was attempting to make a dr appt with my daughter's disorganized practice. I think the scheduler was accustomed to taking the offensive and she pointed out, "well, she hasn't been here in a LONG TIME. Looks like she missed a physical last year..." I finally burst out, "You're being really condescending and I'm worried about my daughter and this is stressing me out!" She got much nicer, thank God.

[Octavia]

Thanks Larkspur and Soprano! Well done Lark for bursting out at that condescending woman! I reckon using the word ‘stress’ to describe how you’re feeling is a good tip - because the person doesn’t know whether you are going to get really mad or start crying...it’s sort of neutral. But they know what it feels like! Great that you got a result.

Really busy day today, and no time to get dinner - had to divide my lunchtime sandwich between two meals. Perhaps my lowest calorie day ever! It will help to counteract all the chocolate and ice cream I wolfed this weekend.

DH seems to be loving NYC, by the way! Posting lots of photos and raving about his real New York breakfast. 😊

[Octavia]

After all the Easter excess, my weight is stuck at about 5lb down from my first weigh-in, back in Jan. In my old calorie counting days, I could have lost 5lb in two weeks! But I was younger then - and of course, I couldn’t keep it up: eating tiny snacks and treats all day long, alongside low calorie meals. Ugh! So unsatisfing. No S is much more rewarding. The only problem with the slow weight loss is that there’s a nagging doubt in my head - am I somehow cheating at this, doing it wrong? And has the weight loss stalled for good? I won’t know unless I carry on, so there’s the answer!

I’m a bit frustrated because today we’re having a dinner party so I can’t really stick to N day rules. I so want to get a big streak of greens in my Habitcal. Never mind. I’m still not remotely interested in going off the plan!

And meagre as it is, that 5lb has made a difference, and I feel better in my clothes. Even ordered two dresses from Joe Browns today (highly recommend the stretchy ones - they’re a viscose-elastane mix and incredibly flattering and comfortable to wear. I like to bung a little denim jacket over the top, like a cardi....when it gets to summer that is.)

Husband is home from NYC and is enthusiastically playing classic American pop music downstairs. I can hear Simon and Garfunkel. He had a great time!

My attempts to establish systems for going to bed and getting up have not been a success, and I wonder if that’s setting the bar too high. My life is too chaotic and non-routine, with evening work, the unpredictable demands of a teen child, and so on, to keep to a strict routine. I’ve decided to let it rest, and give up trying to improve myself in that way. But I’ve continued searching for other moderate habit ideas that might help with my inertia and low moods. For instance, 14’ of what I call ‘flowing movement’. Just moving around doing stuff - it could be exercise or it could be decluttering. i was finding that by the time I’d done everything for the day, it was too late to exercise. But I can gently move around for 14’. The point isn’t fitness, nor to do more housework, but to fight inertia. To DO stuff!

Another way of fighting inertia is to ‘do a creative thing’ NOW! Just a tiny burst of random creativity. Again, what i achieve is not the point - I need to defeat my inertia habit first and foremost. So for the last two nights I’ve played the piano. Even though it was too late to be really constructive, I just did a bit, so I could tick that box.

Normally, my own thoughts get in the way - I’m distracted by worries or household mess, or I feel that my previous failure to establish creative habits means I’ll fail in the future. “What’s the point doing a painting if it’s the only one you’ll do in the next decade (probably)?†- “what’s the point in going for a run if it’s the only one I manage in a whole month?†- so my thoughts go. The dire logic of despair!!!! And the result: inertia. Anyway, my anti-inertia systems are meant to just break up the block, and allow me to get the feeling of action rather than stewing. Thinking of a catchy name for the combined system, such as ‘Paralysis Pill’.

I’ve gone on too long, and have become inert....😂
Hope everyone is well and looking forward to the weekend!

[Octavia]

Octavia iz failin!

I knew it wouldn’t be a good N day cos of our dinner party, but the WTH effect really took hold this morning. Was in a bad mood due to all the tidying and cleaning required to get the house halfway respectable. Grumpily ate unnecessary ice cream! And felt more mentally blocked than ever. But I’m always in a bad mood when we have people round - it’s just nerves. I will enjoy it once they get here, and the house and food will be fine.

[beginagain]

I like reading about your No S journey. You're doing so well! Someone once said that we aren't trying for perfection, just for Better. You're certainly doing that!

[Soprano]

Octavia iz failin!

I knew it wouldn’t be a good N day cos of our dinner party, but the WTH effect really took hold this morning. Was in a bad mood due to all the tidying and cleaning required to get the house halfway respectable. Grumpily ate unnecessary ice cream! And felt more mentally blocked than ever. But I’m always in a bad mood when we have people round - it’s just nerves. I will enjoy it once they get here, and the house and food will be fine.

If I had a dinner party with friends I would treat it as an S day and enjoy it, unless you have them every night of course!

[Octavia]

Thank you, Begin and Soprano! I feel encouraged by those observations. Maybe I am doing OK. Weight was up a bit today, which makes it look like a miniscule weight loss since I started. Like, 3lb in four months. I sometimes wonder if I’m just moving calories around, rather than eating any less. But to lose any weight at all, at my age, is a miracle, and I must be eating less.

I am afraid to introduce any mods as yet, because I think I will get diet head: that urgency to see the number on the scale go down....basically, higher expectations. It could backfire.

My anti-inertia systems are working well. For the ‘Do a creative thing NOW’ system, I actually wrote a couple of hundred words in my abandoned novel, which has been an ongoing source of low morale for the last 5 years. I want to finish it, but the project has gone on too long, and I’m bored. But I got to it. As I wrote, I laughed to myself, as I realised that one of the reasons for my block was that I had reached a sex scene! Urghhh embarrassment! Well I got round the cringe factor by deciding that my characters would be interrupted by...wait for it....the return of the husband! 🤣🤣🤣 Ah, the old cliches are the best ones! Anyway I have been a wimp, but got over my writers’ block!

And for my 14’ of not-necessarily-energetic movement, I de fumigated the teen’s bedroom and put beds down for a sleepover tonight. Feeling quite tired now!

S treats: ice cream after lunch (just a ramekin, so not piles). Chocolate after dinner (though didn’t have too much). A handful of Pringles this afternoon.

Oops I’m forgetting, I also had biscotti AND a small choc bar with a cup of tea when we popped into Starbucks.

Multiple snack/treats, oh dear! No total stuffing of the face, though....

[worth it]

Hi Octavia,

I just wanted to send some positive vibes your way- I think you are doing great!

I know how you feel about having visitors in your home- I feel much the same way. I get so anxious and just want it all to go well.

Overall, I know you will find the right balance of No S for those days when it doesn't necessarily fit into your typical schedule.

It's great to hear about your experience and see that you continue to keep moving forward.

[Soprano]

Hi Octavia, sounds like you're doing ok. 3lbs in 4 months could become 9 lbs in a year which I would be happy with given that may weight has increased by about 3lbs a year over the last 3 years or so.

Just enjoy your snacks/treats on the s days. Some days we need more than others.

Keep going, you can do this and well done on your book!

[Octavia]

Thanks, worth it and Soprano!

I have eaten rather badly and randomly this weekend. But I still have a feeling that at some point, the penny will drop, and I will decide of my own free will that the discomfort of emptiness and delayed gratification is preferable to the futility of permasnacking. Of course I know that already, but still have a strong desire to experience that release of self-control every weekend. Despite their rewards, N days still entail psychic ‘work’...effort...and that’s what I enjoy throwing aside on S days. I wonder if at some point I’ll happily opt to do a little work on S days? I’ve a feeling that if I do become more controlled, I’ll then start looking for a payoff in terms of greater weight loss. It could backfire. (I was rambling on about this only a couple of posts ago). At the moment, any weight loss is an astonishing bonus to having the enjoyable No S rhythm to my week.

Do you think I could lose 9lb in a year? That cheered me up, Soprano! And made me want to just carry on Vanilla-ing.

[Soprano]

When I started this I decided if I was 9lb lighter this time next year I would be very happy

I'm wondering what is triggering you to go overboard at the weekends. I approach my weekends feeling quite in control. I try and stick to similar meals and portion sizes as in the week but I allow sweet things and seconds in that I will have dessert or maybe cheese and biscuits after a meal but I don't pile my plate high. I might also have a few nuts with wine before I eat but it never feels like a binge or out of control....

Do you eat things you enjoy?

I never think about whether food is fattening only if it is healthy and something | enjoy. I deserve good food that I enjoy and so do you.

[Octavia]

Hi Soprano! Thanks again for your insights! I think the reason I have mad S days is that I really enjoy giving up all the efforts of the N days....more than I enjoy the benefits of the N days. It feels such a luxurious release, letting those lower brain instincts off the leash every weekend. I hope this will change without me having to enforce rules - though that doesn’t seem likely any time soon! I always eat things I like, throughout the week, so I’m not having such a hard time on N days...but they still feel like work, and the desire to eat ‘addictively’ is definitely alive and well!

I’m slightly worried that I haven’t overcome my snacking habit at all, but have just temporarily suppressed it with external rules. Again, I suppose only time will tell. Perhaps I need to set a firmer intention - either an intention to dismiss the ‘addictive urge’ ...or simply, to get the number on the scale to shift. I’m a bit directionless at the moment, my only intention being to comply with the Vanilla routine. Need to remember why I’m doing it!

[Octavia]

hurrah, the high weight of last weekend was a passing thing...so it seems!

Summing up my No S experience so far. I’ve been amazed and delighted to find that the N day routine has become an instinctive habit. The Habitcal has been surprisingly helpful, in that it makes me think ahead and imagine the pain of failure. And it’s been a delight to find that the dreadful hunger signals and symptoms have quietened radically, leaving me feeling more confident in my skin - no longer so afraid of running out of gas. This has been good for my anxiety. I’ve taken in more fluids, which is good for my lowish blood pressure, and have discovered interesting new drinks. I’ve enjoyed the routine of the week, with more reason to look forward to weekends (I work weekends so they often feel rather downbeat). With chocolate removed from my week, I’m more able to see which other foods might be disagreeing with me, and have pinpointed certain culprits. I am able to resist treats and snacks on N days without experiencing any conflict or mental agitation. Without the distraction of daily treats, I’ve been forced to tend to my life and seek out real fulfilment. It’s still hard, but I’m not giving up and turning to the quick fix of chocolate, as I did before. And I have lost (according to the scale this morning) 4lb since January.

These are the things I still need to attend to:

My festive weekend treats quickly become permasnacking - operating from that old lower brain system alone, feeling too weary to impose willpower. Permasnacking is, of course, not enjoyable in itself: it’s only desirable because it is effortless. So that’s an issue for me. I want to truly enjoy those treats, not eat them because I can’t stop myself eating them! Rather than inventing new rules, I need some sort of Treat Optimisation System to help me at weekends.

Secondly, although habit is amazing and helping me get through the N days without much suffering, I think I actually need to ‘embrace the suffering’ more. Consciously feel those urges and let them be there, maybe even see them as an invitation to find something meaningful to do. That might mean doing a difficult thing that needs doing, it might mean a creative thing, or work, or having a rest. I feel I’m relying too much on habit, on things feeling easy.

Having worked this out, I hope I might be protected from mad S days, and from the danger of my N day habits ‘flipping over.’

[Soprano]

Sounds like you are doing great. You just need to tackle the weekend permasnacking

Reasons why it is bad:

Not good for your teeth
Not good for your blood sugars
It could jeopardise your hard work in the week

Would it work to plan some snacks at short intervals so that you look forward to and enjoy them?

[Larkspur]

"Without the distraction of daily treats, I’ve been forced to tend to my life and seek out real fulfilment. "

Great reflection! I just enjoy your whole thread, it's so interesting to hear about what's going on with you & I enjoy the British (you are British?) twist.

[Octavia]

Thank you, Larkspur! Yes, I’m British.

Thanks to Soprano too, for ongoing support! It’s much appreciated.

Happy to see the scale still registering a low weight - hoping it is not just a fleeting dip this time - it is indicating that I’ve lost 6lb since Jan. If that’s true, then it’s great news for me. I now wish I’d weighed myself when I started, in December...but I was not only afraid to see my weight, but determined to do No S whether it resulted in weight loss or not. So I didn’t weigh. It was probably a good thing.

Saw some photos of myself the other day and couldn’t believe how huge I looked. Felt rather depressed. Thank goodness that in real life I move around and don’t just stay in one unflattering pose. Despite being on the No S Diet, I don’t see myself as being that big...I must have a distorted body image...! I thought I looked significantly overweight, rather than less than a stone. Bah!

I’ve been running more regularly, and realising that I’ve been lacking a sense of purpose with it. Yes, I was working on my stamina, but what was running itself contributing to my life? So I decided that what I want from it is to increase my energy in the short term, and protect my body from the weakness and stiffness of ageing in the long term. Having clarified that, I’ve now started going for shorter but more regular runs. The longer, stamina building runs were important for becoming more adept, but were too time consuming and, indeed, tiring, to squeeze into a busy day. But a shorter workout perks me up for the day. I drive to the park, walk to the pond in the park, run twice round the pond, then walk back to the car. It takes 30 mins, and I do feel noticeably better for it.

I’ve got some demanding work happening tomorrow, and am stuck in that unpleasant ‘work head’ feeling, where a grey cloud follows you around...this is a classic challenge for me! In the absence of distracting, cheering, sweet snacks, I’m facing up to feelings like this much more these days, and wanting to learn to overcome them. Life drains away while I’m worrying about tomorrow...or maybe not consciously worrying, but unable to enjoy anything else or focus on my personal projects...’preoccupied’ is surely the perfect word for this state of being.

[Octavia]

Wow, it’s boiling hot today. I had an ice lolly, which I’m counting as a frozen drink....!

[Soprano]

I like your style, enjoy, it won't last

[Dalia negra]

The only problem with the slow weight loss is that there’s a nagging doubt in my head - am I somehow cheating at this, doing it wrong? And has the weight loss stalled for good? I won’t know unless I carry on, so there’s the answer!

I’m a bit frustrated because today we’re having a dinner party so I can’t really stick to N day rules. I so want to get a big streak of greens in my Habitcal. Never mind. I’m still not remotely interested in going off the plan!

I feel totally identified with this ... and I think that is what keeps me going ... to find out what will happen.

I really like your publications!

[Octavia]

Thanks Dalia! Hope you’re having a good S weekend!

[Dalia negra]

Yes, very good, thanks!

[Octavia]

Reporting back on my S weekend. Saturday had no treats whatsoever - was working and got home very late, and felt I needed to eat sensibly all day. There was no time to enjoy treats, really....but I did get the feeling that my N day habits were controlling my behaviour, and that’s good. Sunday, ate quite a few treats. But altogether the weekend was more moderate than usual.

Have had a good N day today. Hoping the scale will shift a bit this week. Starting to really relish a cup of tea when I’m feeling hungry. Needing fewer calorific drinks. So all ticking along quite well. Am very tired, hence uncharacteristic brevity! Night night.

[Octavia]

So annoying - ate so moderately yesterday, yet weight has gone up. Well, that’s how weight goes, isn’t it? 🙄 Sigh.

Onwards.

[Octavia]

Feeling a bit discouraged by the no weight loss thing.

But the great thing is, that you don’t have to feel super-motivated to do No S. I can continue without the ‘carrot’ of weight loss. (Such an ironic metaphor for those of us who tend to spurn carrots in favour of cream buns...)! In a way, it’s slightly marvellous to feel fed up and yet not consider smashing out of my diet. I really must be in the groove of No S!

My theory is that No S is not so much a weight-loss diet, as an eating training programme.* Weight loss will be the eventual result...but only when I’m better trained.

* Does that sentence remind anyone of Cathy Morningside’s words in Miss Congeniality: ‘THIS IS NOT A BEAUTY PAGEANT! THIS IS A SCHOLARSHIP PROGRAMME!’ 😂😂😂

[worth it]

Octavia,

I LOVE what you said about No S being a training program! It truly is.

Just wanted to empathize with you- it is so hard not to get discouraged when we don’t see that number go down. However, I really believe you will experience positive results soon.

Fingers crossed 🤞

[Octavia]

Thanks, worth it! The scale has gone down again today - hurrah. And I have a few N days left before the weekend, so perhaps I’ll see the next number down, if I’m lucky!
Hope you have a good day.

[Dalia negra]

I'm very happy to read that, Octavia !!!! I am very happy for you, and in the same way, it helps me too

[oolala53]

No S is a REtraining program away from either overeating or erratic eating to systematic moderation. If that is not worth it as an end itself without significant weight loss, there will be a fair amount of frustration, as there would be with any diet.

If your real goal is to become thin and think you can never be happy without it, you will likely be on the constant search circuit.

Either way, I hope you enjoy your meals!

[idontknow]

Well done on the weight loss! I know you said on my thread that you weigh every day - have you thought about recording and then tracking monthly averages so you aren't dependent on the daily fluctuations? I try to think of myself as a data collector when I weigh - the number has no meaning until I see it in a pattern/series of data.
Just a thought - feel free to ignore.

[oolala53]

Even though I wasn't out to lose weight, I weighed everyday and averaged it once a week. There are graphs that you can load the daily info on and it will tell you the moving average. Much more accurate, if weight is the focus.

But habit is the real focus and reward. In that way, Habitcal is gold.

[Octavia]

Thanks for all your insights! Mostly I take the scale with a big pinch of salt. But my lower self would like to defy nature and see that needle move! If it never moves again, though, I’m still happy doing the No S routine. As you said Oolala, it is worth it as an end in itself. I totally believe this. Have just had cottage pie for dinner, and thought how enjoyable it was, with me being properly ready for it. Meals have become as enjoyable as treats!

Habitcal is indeed gold! It’s the sort of thing the old me would not normally bother with, but I’m so glad I started it. I think it’s made a magical difference to my compliance/habit building.

Like most things in life (I find), there’s a paradox at work with my NoS journey. I want to do No S for its own sake. I also want to lose weight. The two things can coexist. Maybe it’s similar to creativity: you have to do things for their own sake, but external rewards still have an appeal. Perhaps it’s the difference between liking and needing. I would certainly like to lose a few more pounds, but I’m not totally attached to that outcome. Am I making sense? It’s late and I am cross-eyed from doing too much computer work! Must sleep!

Goodnight all. Thanks for visiting my check-in!

[Dalia negra]

Like most things in life (I find), there’s a paradox at work with my NoS journey. I want to do No S for its own sake. I also want to lose weight. The two things can coexist. Maybe it’s similar to creativity: you have to do things for their own sake, but external rewards still have an appeal. Perhaps it’s the difference between liking and needing. I would certainly like to lose a few more pounds, but I’m not totally attached to that outcome. Am I making sense? It’s late and I am cross-eyed from doing too much computer work! Must sleep!

Goodnight all. Thanks for visiting my check-in!

It has all the sense of the world!! That I think is now my great milestone, I have stopped worrying excessively about my weight, although, of course, I would like to lose weight, but I am not focused exclusively on that (who was going to tell me two days ago).
Now I think you're on a very good road

[Octavia]

A very moderate N day, which is good. Had quite a lot on Sunday - we went out for a meal, and I had two glasses of wine and three courses. Felt really stuffed. So often I’d rather just eat at home, but we were being treated by FIL! Not complaining. Just realising that big meals with wine don’t agree with me. I feel this is part of the gradual transformation of No S...all that food just doesn’t quite work any more.

[lpearlmom]

Isn’t it interesting how your body really starts to prefer less food?

[Soprano]

I walked into the kitchen at work yesterday to find Cake from a birthday and didn't feel at all inclined to eat any!

[Octavia]

Hi Soprano and Linda,
Yes, it’s strange how even a chocolate-addicted body like mine can start to prefer to eat less. Or maybe the strange thing is that the mind is following the body’s lead. Before, I could overcome/ignore the stuffed feeling if i really wanted to enjoy the gratification of treat foods. Now, head and body are more at one. There’s less conflict. I can’t override my body’s messages so easily. I think I feel ready to modify my S days, so that I eat sweets only as desserts, not as snacks. Snacks just don’t work any more! They feel pointless and disappointing, and I can’t bear not enjoying my meals. But we’ll see. It’s a while to the weekend!

Can’t believe May is here. I’ve been on No S for almost five months. Ha! It’s nothing - but it’s great to be able to stick to a plan that long, and feel it getting easier, not harder. Have lost 6lb since Jan. Miracle!

Hope you are all having a good week! X

[Soprano]

Sounds like you are doing really well. Congratulations on your loss.

Ifind I am eating less sweets at the weekend. I still have Easter egg and birthday chocolate left over!

[lpearlmom]

5 months is fantastic! I got so sick of traditional diets that I’d literally start a diet in the morning & break it by that evening. So nice to find something sane & sustainable.

[oolala53]

Kudos! (May I ask what percentage of your weight 6 lbs. is? Or your original weight? You can tell me you'd rather not say. But I'm always curious about percentages. )

You are "getting over" getting stuffed or eating sweets a lot faster than I did. I'm not sure I'm completely over either of them, as you-know-what happens sometimes. It's just not the default.

Onwards!

[Kathleen]

Bump

[Dalia negra]

Congratulations Octavia !!!! You are doing it great!!!!

[Octavia]

Thanks to the lovely Kathleen for the bump! I had completely lost my thread and thought it must have been deleted by accident! Don’t understand why it had got lost, when I only checked in on the 1st of May, so not long ago.

Hi Oolala! I’ve lost 4% of my body weight over the last five months. I’m now half a stone off my former normal adult weight, and a stone off my ‘vanity’ (‘been on a diet’) weight. Not sure I’m over the excessive weekends yet. We shall see. Intentions and insights are one thing...actions are different! Thanks for your kudos - not sure I’m really worthy as yet! it’s partly due to prompts and tips from people like you that I’ve succeeded in doing 5 months on the plan. Thanks so much. And to Linda too....yes, I had many diet beginnings where I didn’t make it to the end of the day before complete hopelessness set in!

Funny to think that the last diet I dabbled with was one of those ‘you aren’t eating enough’ plans. So hilarious! The theory was , of course, that once the organism was convinced it wasn’t starving, it began to release fat. Ha! The trouble was, that THIS organism was just becoming habituated to great big meals and generous ‘healthy’ snacks all day long. Very glad I came back to No S.

[Octavia]

Well, dang! Had a fail day yesterday. Had niece over for dinner and just over ate, ending up with a load of chocolate mints. Emotionally quite low, but that’s beside the point.

Will report back later, on train now!

[Dalia negra]

Courage Octavia !!!!! Red mark and follow, nothing happens!

[Soprano]

Learning to deal with days like that is part of the process. Let it to and enjoy your s day today

[Octavia]

Thank you Dalia and Soprano!

Friday was a normal N day again, though I was working late and didn’t have a proper dinner, just a sandwich and banana, so had a cherry kefir drink on the train home.

The weekend has been rather bad again, with a big bar of hazelnut chocolate*, two small ice cream tubs and a portion of cherry pie!!! 🙄 It’s very interesting to observe my old habits compete with my new habits. The old habits never die, do they? this is something Gillian Riley always said - you can’t eliminate addictive eating. It is wired into us. All you can do is minimise it and accept your imperfection. Getting back on track afterwards is the real test.

I’ve said this before, but I wonder if I am too focussed on habit-building and not enough on front-brain reasoning. I’m hardly using my rationality at all at weekends, but letting habit run its course (I’m the same during the week, but the N habits have miraculously become stronger than the feed-on-demand ones). And yet, I needed those front-brain concepts to get me started on No S, and to endure the difficulties.

Of course, I used to do lots of front-brain reasoning in my pre-No S days, when my journal was filled with diet analysis. Nowadays I don’t write anything about my diet in my journal. I just do the No S routine. All those lists and reasons to resist treats never helped me. But that’s because they weren’t backed up by the skill of habit-building. maybe now, I should spend a little time strengthening my upper brain and clarifying what it is I’m trying to achieve. It may be significant that my weekends tend to be very busy, demanding times, not very relaxing, and I get particularly stressed and tired.

* This bar of chocolate had the most hilarious, disingenuous blurb on the wrapper. It was an amazing concoction of huge nuts and what they called ‘blonde’ chocolate, sort of golden, and it advertised itself as a SHARING bar. I was already chuckling at the remote likelihood of that, but then as I ate the first row of 4 squares, I noticed the advice: “be portion wise. One portin = 2 squares.â€

[Soprano]

Octavia, we can over think and analyse stuff sometimes. How about really concentrating on the pleasure your sweet treats give you.

I find that some of the things I thought of as a treat when I really stop to taste them that I actually I don't like them. This makes you more discerning about what you do eat and by receiving pleasure from your treats you are less likely to overeat as if you savour them you tend to notice when the pleasure stops which it always does with sweet things.

So you don't mentally deny yourself the treat but your body tells you when you've had enough and you know you can go back for more later so it loses the attraction to binge on.

[Octavia]

You’re right, Soprano. Tweaking those treats so I’m only eating truly delicious things could reduce some of the excess.

You’ve prompted me to think: one thing I forget at weekends is the helpful role of drinks. I often wish i could build up a better appetite before meals, but somehow my willpower is non-existent at the weekend: that’s when I could turn to drinks instead of snacks, as I did (and still do) on N days. Introducing a few treat-like drinks on S days might help to make them more N - like, without inducing deprivation. Perhaps that’s the next stage in habit-training for me!

I’m wary of the old diet tactic of focussing harder on weight loss in order to tame my S days. Anything I do ‘in order to achieve weight loss’ is likely to backfire, because weight loss tends to be uncooperative, and frustration would set in.

[Octavia]

Weight has gone up 2lb over the weekend. Obviously not pure fat, but a sign Ive been overeating. Not that I needed a sign....😂

But I’m so wary of fiddling around with calorie counts. It didn’t work pre-No S, so I doubt it will help now. I need to just carry on, and gently work towards taming the S days.

Yesterday I was delighted to find I could fit into some oldish clothes, thanks to my modest weight loss since starting No S last December. It made me think, yes, weight loss is good, and not to be sniffed at. But I also need to remember that my reasons for committing to No S were to do with taming my bad eating habits, which were depressing me, regardless of the weight gain. Getting a handle on that sense of addiction, turning to treats in response to a variety of cues, both emotional and situational.

So how am I doing, in relation to that goal? Well I’m free from that reactivity during the week, which is very liberating. I’m eating less sugar and enjoying my meals hugely. But more fruit and veg? No. And certainly not more fibre. I actually found that attempts to eat more ‘healthily’ didn’t make my gut happy. I’m now experimenting with going back to things like white rice and white bread! I seem to be having fewer of my ‘nervous tummy’ upsets. But I digress. I need to remember how sugary permasnacking made me miserable (like, ‘wow, my life must be really empty if I need this much chocolate...’) and my aim on No S was to beat it, and allow myself to have a healthy diet (which seemed impossible while addicted to treats). I’m now not so sure what a healthy diet is, for my particular body, but mad S days aren’t it!

So....going forward....
I will try substituting snacks for drinks at the weekend. That’s partly how I got ‘unaddicted’ on N days, so maybe it will help on S days.

I will remember my goal to have a healthier diet, and try to get my 5 a day, without overloading my gut with fibre.

I will keep on returning to exercise, acknowledging that my work schedule interferes regularly, but not letting that make me give up altogether.

[Octavia]

Weight back down. It’s been the same for a couple of months, though. Not sure I will see any more progress till my habits evolve further. It’s likely that I’m eating the required amount a 52 year old 5’5 tall woman needs to maintain a weight of 149lb. If I maintain this (and I intend to stay on No S for ever!) then I’ll certainly have achieved a great improvement on the last 5 years, when I my weight was 6lb higher, and increasing. However, I would like to lose a bit more, so I’m watching with interest to see if my S day habits (or N day habits for that matter) start to evolve. I don’t want to rush or force the phases on No S, as it’s still early days for me! But I’m still considering this drinks-instead-of-snacks thing at the weekend, as a fairly tame and logical step towards greater eating normality.

I went into the supermarket today, and didn’t even think about getting myself a treat! I picked out some biscuits for DD, and almost without thinking, I picked ones that would not tempt me. It felt like a sensible precaution, not a sacrifice. I have to keep on strengthening this habit! It is like a miracle to me. It’s the five days of sweet-avoidance that has been the key. It’s a long enough time to really work some magic in the old brain-wiring.

[Octavia]

DH and DD munched their way through a pack of choc-chip cookies tonight while we watched TV. I wasn’t tempted to spoil my green day, but I did feel empty, bored and deprived. I’m glad I don’t get this feeling often, it is so unpleasant!

[Merrygoround]

I don’t think I am much help, I am such a newbie myself, but one thing I read back in the weight loss years, is that if you want to be a 130lb woman at whatever height, you have to eat the calories of that person. Now I know we don’t count calories here (thank goodness) but I do think we need to consider just how much food we do need.

I am using this rule in slimming down a dog. The vet gave her ideal weight, we looked on the back of the packet for the food required for that weight of dog.....and that’s what she gets, no more, no less. It’s working. She losing weight nicely

[Dalia negra]

Merry, do you mean maintenance calories, or weight loss?

[Octavia]

Hi, Merrygoround and Dalia! Thanks for popping by. I’ve not had chance to visit other people’s threads much this week, it’s been so busy. Really nice to see you here!

A little good news this morning, weight down another pound! Meaning half a stone has gone since I started. Though I know the number may bob up again. But my ‘plateau’ has shifted! I have lost half a stone by doing Vanilla, which must be a pretty good advert for Vanilla. Have totally indulged myself on S days. N days have not been particularly spartan, either. Have had 1-2 fails or NWS days a month. I’m neither tall nor young nor significantly overweight, so it’s a miracle that this has worked, as a weight loss plan. But it has.

So, maybe I am eating the calories of a 148lb woman, Merrygo! I suppose it’s difficult to tell. All that calorie stuff is so mysterious, our bodies unfathomable. Calories are definitely relevant to what we’re doing, but as you say, we’re not trying to control them directly. I used to do CC myself - I thought it was the only way to guarantee weight loss. And I wouldn’t make any changes to my diet unless I thought weight loss was guaranteed! But success with that method gradually slipped out of reach. When the scales stopped ‘cooperating’, I didn’t have the willpower to continue. Was in constant state of WTH - what the hell! And was always unsatisfied and empty from eating tiny snacks and incorporating regular treats, which kept me addicted to these insidious eating habits. As your dog proves (😊) calories do count, though! If only we all had caring owners to help us slim down!

[lpearlmom]

Congrats on getting the scale to move! Just wanted to say that CC is a horrible long term solution. Most ppl can’t stick to it and our bodies learn to compensate by slowing down our metabolism. NoS is a long term solution because you’re creating habits which support a healthy metabolism and let you slowly release some fat.

Keep up the good work!

Linda

[Octavia]

Thanks, Linda! I’m so grateful for the ongoing encouragement I receive from successful long-term No Sers like you! So glad I didn’t try to do this alone, which would be my usual introverted style!

Was thinking of my two favourite No S sayings. ‘Nothing is in itself.’ (From the book), and ‘Ill be happier if I stick to my plan.’ (Judith Beck via Oolala). Those two sayings really help, when temptation strikes!

Happy S days, everyone!

[Octavia]

I feel like I don’t deserve to lose weight, as vanilla No S now seems so easy. But the scales have shifted again, and I’m now down 8lb from December. I keep on saying this, but it’s a miracle! I am so grateful to Reinhard and everyone on the forum!

[Octavia]

Hurrah, weight still at this new low.

Breakfast - baguette with butter and jam
Lunch - boiled egg and toast, a few mixed berries and plain yoghurt
dinner - tortellini with tomato sauce (can’t remember when I last cooked properly!)
Glass of white wine.

Still not really finding time for regular exercise. This month and next are really busy, and I feel trapped at my desk. Hope things will ease off soon.

[ladybird30]

I feel like I don’t deserve to lose weight, as vanilla No S now seems so easy.

Well done on getting to No S being easy. To me that's one of the differences between practising moderation and dieting - the lack of real suffering. I believe that it is not necessary to suffer to deserve having some thing good happen.

[Dalia negra]

I feel like I don’t deserve to lose weight, as vanilla No S now seems so easy.

Well done on getting to No S being easy. To me that's one of the differences between practising moderation and dieting - the lack of real suffering. I believe that it is not necessary to suffer to deserve having some thing good happen.

Wonderful thinking Ladybird30



Congratulations for the loss of weight, Octavia, I am very happy for you

Those thoughts of "if there is no sacrifice there can be no reward" I also have them often, that is why I often doubt that this is working, when the truth is that it works in many more levels than I ever suspected.

Keep it up!!

[Soprano]

Well done Octavia

[Merrygoround]

Sorry I didn’t mean to imply calorie counting was the solution. It was a badly written post.

Re the dog, she had been getting her food....plus snacks! We stopped the snacks, she just gets the amount of food recommended by the vet for her ideal weight. She was weighed yesterday and is almost there. No snacking for doggies either!

And the calories of a whatever weight woman, came from an article I read, suggesting people simply eat too much! Well I never! it said if you eat enough calories to sustain an Olympic sumo wrestler then guess what.....and conversely if you eat enough calories to sustain a 150lb woman guess what.

Now I don’t actually agree with the calories angle of that, I think it is a lot more complicated, but the point is, we are eating too much. In my fat days it was snacks. A little handful of this, and a baite or two of that. Actually I didn’t snack. I was on a one meal a day regime.....starting at 8am and finishing at 9pm

[Dalia negra]

Do not worry, Merry, I understood you perfectly, it's just interesting information

[Octavia]

Hi all,
Thanks for the lovely comments! I hope my (modest!) success helps others to keep at it! I had honestly given up hope before No S.

Although I’m finding No S easy right now, I do feel I’ve made sacrifices - my entire eating style before (‘feed on demand’) has had to go. I’ve almost forgotten how hard that was at the start. No snacking seemed really difficult and almost insane, because I was programmed to think that I had to eat as soon as I was hungry. And of course I was eating for fun, reward, comfort, all the other stuff. But the great thing about No S is that the sacrifice becomes easier as you get used to it. After a while you feel you’re not doing anything! But it does gradually add up to fewer calories.

I totally relate to your former eating style, Merrygo! The single meal eaten all day! 😂

[Dalia negra]

Hi all,
Thanks for the lovely comments! I hope my (modest!) success helps others to keep at it! I had honestly given up hope before No S.

Although I’m finding No S easy right now, I do feel I’ve made sacrifices - my entire eating style before (‘feed on demand’) has had to go. I’ve almost forgotten how hard that was at the start. No snacking seemed really difficult and almost insane, because I was programmed to think that I had to eat as soon as I was hungry. And of course I was eating for fun, reward, comfort, all the other stuff. But the great thing about No S is that the sacrifice becomes easier as you get used to it. After a while you feel you’re not doing anything! But it does gradually add up to fewer calories.

I totally relate to your former eating style, Merrygo! The single meal eaten all day! 😂

Totally true!
At the beginning it also cost me, I was very hungry between meals and I remember that I spoke up to resist like a champion

Now it's much easier, and the days when I feel a bit hungry I think it's because I'm losing some weight and that encourages me

And yes, your testimony helps many, at least it does and gives me a lot of hope

[Larkspur]

Gratz on your success!

[Octavia]

Thanks! 😊
Have just had a typically (for me) excessive weekend. Loads of chocolate! But still focusing on the N days really. Glad tomorrow is Monday.

[Octavia]

Friday was a fail day. Nuts and crisps were brought into the house by visitors, and I couldn’t resist a few handfuls. Also had a yoghurt for pudding. A small fail but definitely a red square.

Weight is up a little today. But in general terms, things are still going well, and I feel much better for having lost this modest amount of weight.

Happy S days to all!

[Octavia]

Have been away working for a few days. I took with me a supply of small cartons of juice and small milkshakes, and this meant I was able to cope with delayed meals, moments of troublesome hunger, and the like. It seemed really silly as I loaded all of this ‘kiddie’ stuff into the car, but it made a huge difference! I was able to stay green the whole week. Weight is more or less the same as when I left, which is great, as I did have quite big, stodgy evening meals every day.

I’m aware that over the last few months while I’ve been doing No S, I haven’t thought too much about fruit and veg, and I definitely need to eat more. I used to get most of that as snacks, pre-No S, so I should make more effort. Exercise has also diminished recently and I’ve only managed a few walks. I don’t seem to have the head space for building any other habits! Thank goodness No S itself doesn’t seem to take up any head space! If I was on a diet right now, I would definitely be failing, and saying ‘I don’t have time for this!’

[Octavia]

Have maintained this week, which is good. Tonight was out at a concert where loads of food was provided. I’d had my dinner, so I just drank water and juice. Blurghh. I longed for wine and buffet. One of my cartons of juice was a pineapple juice, and it was like drinking liquid sugar. Ugh! But I was so hungry, having eaten at 5 for family/concert reasons, that I was glad of the juice. Had a hot choc when I got in - more sugar! Not ideal. Sometimes I find I do have to really contort my eating in order to stay green. I just accept that some days will be like this. I might be drinking unhealthy drinks rather than eating healthy snacks, which seems mad....But ‘nothing is in itself’.... even healthy snacks are the building blocks of a terrible habit.

Hurrah, S day tomorrow!

[Octavia]

Weight dipped in a freakish way last night. Don’t normally weigh myself at night, but was bored and grumpy. Well the scales implied that I’ve gone down another pound, implying that I have now lost 10lb since January! This put a spring in my step! I know it was just a blip, but it left me marvelling once again at the sheer miracle of No S.

Today I’m up a pound again, which i expected, but still feeling so happy and grateful. I don’t really have much to report these days. I’m just doing Vanilla, with zero modifications, and it is working. I’m so glad I didn’t give up on No S. When I first tried it, I hastily surmised that I was just moving calories around, and having to use loads of will power in the process! Thanks to the support of the No S forum, I started to understand the process better third time around. My gratitude knows no bounds!!!! I’m looking forward to posting a testimonial on the forum when I’ve done a year. (Am I tempting fate, writing that? )

[Octavia]

Hilarity - there’s an advert at the bottom of my thread for some pills which promise weight loss of a pound a day - or your money back!

[Octavia]

This week, I’ve had phases of feeling like I have low blood sugar in the afternoon. A bit weak, depressed and anxious. And hungry! My No S habits are strong enough that I can get through it, but a couple of times, I’ve questioned the wisdom of it. I know that a snack would put me right! I think these feelings come after days when I’ve had alcohol - like a large glass of wine - and maybe a restaurant meal. I don’t want to give up either of those occasional treats. So I think I need to just make sure I’m eating a bit more, and eating better. The last couple of days, I’ve made more of an effort to cook an egg for breakfast - had got into a bad habit of having just toast, butter and jam and coffee for breakfast...and not having a healthy enough lunch. These weak feelings are a wake-up call for me, to feed myself better. I am NOT giving up alcohol! And I don’t really want to instigate an afternoon snack modification. I just need to eat better at meals.

[Skelton]

Hi Octavia.
Thanks for posting on my last check-in. It was months ago so I'm sure you don't remember it but it's nice to have visitors now and then. I don't visit the board very often as I can find it a little bit triggering so I've only just seen your post.

It does sound as if your body is telling you to eat more, and it's good that you noticed that could be the cause of your afternoon issues.
You've got this!

[Octavia]

Thanks, Skelton!

[Octavia]

Oh no - I think I’m getting a cold. Hope this doesn’t derail me. Eating is so soothing to a sore throat.

Had my usual excessive weekend. It included a party where I had 4 glasses of wine, and ate a big choc bar on the train on the way home. Oh dear. But I’m still wary of making S day rules. The release of S days helps me stay compliant on N days. I want S days to calm down of their own accord. One thing that’s changing, though, is the fact that I can no longer tolerate eating my dinner after snacking all afternoon. I’m finding I naturally snack less in the afternoons because of this. So that is one small step in the right direction.

[Octavia]

The afternoon low has just set in. I might go and have some juice or something....

[Octavia]

I managed to get through the whole of June without any red squares. But despite my compliance, Ive put on a pound, and am aware of the need to reassess, have a little think. Some of my S days have been moderate, but some have been quite binge-like. I’ve been hungry on my N days, especially late afternoon, and have needed help from calorific drinks. It has occurred to me that I’m not really eating moderately at all, but wavering between over eating and under eating.

Last night I went to a party, and decided to have a NWS day - something I usually try to avoid, but it’s occured to me that I am being too orthodox and feeling ever so slightly anxious about breaking the rules (as if my entire happiness depends on them). It’s only a flicker of anxiety, but I felt it, and it alarmed me. I don’t want it to turn into a phobia of snacking. (Can we be too orthodox on No S? I’d love to know what others think.)

I almost feel that after 6 months, I need to let go of the Habitcal, and try to integrate NoS into my life as a set of guidelines, not rules. I know the ‘fence around the rule’ thing has been important to establishing the habits, but I don’t like this feeling of dependence upon compliance.

Perhaps I should exchange my rigid no snacking in the afternoon policy for being more sensible at weekends and not trying to have all my favourite sweet treats in those two days.

No S has been the only way I’ve managed to get, and keep, my weight down, so of course I’m afraid of it all going to pot. But I think my fear of failure has got a bit too strong. Difficult to explain. Maybe I’m getting the weird feeling that I cannot snack, like an anorexic cannot eat. (A very dear young relative of mine has been struggling with anorexia for a decade, and I’ve been thinking about her.) I always hoped that my brain-wiring would change and make me not want to snack, but now it has, I don’t like it. It feels like anxiety.

Anyway, I’m happy to report that I had no trouble snacking at the party last night, though after a piece of cake, I started to feel sick, as if Id had too much. I just need to learn to EAT MODERATELY, whether I’m doing N day rules or not!

[Dalia negra]

Hello Octavia!

Maybe you're going too rigid with yourself ... I had that feeling in the past, when I was better off with No S. It's strange ... I did not want to eat more than I ate, even on S days, but I felt too much attached to the rules, as another diet more. Then, the weight loss stagnated and I left it.

My advice is that you continue with No S and do not give a whit, you will surely see yourself like me in a few months, reaching the conclusion that it is the only thing I want and can continue. Try to relax and not see the rules as something too rigid, perhaps it would be nice to add some mod like include on your plate some sweet in the days No S. I do not know, it's just a suggestion ...

A hug and I hope you are well.

[Octavia]

Thanks so much, Dalia. I was so touched by your kind message.

It is strange, feeling attached to rules. I want to just feel that I’m giving up snacks and sweets as a free choice, not a rule. And yet, while ever I feel the nagging emptiness between meals, and the pull towards treat foods, how can abstinence ever feel like a free choice? Even though I’ve developed a habit of abstaining, so it’s easier, it still feels like a habit of self-denial, not a choice.

I feel like I waver between feeling over-full because I’ve snacked, or feeling tense and uncomfortable because I’ve not snacked. I can’t seem to truly settle on one approach or the other.

It’s not like this all the time, though. I am genuinely able to go for longer without food. I just want this not to be an issue any more. I’m feeling a bit crazy doing this system, being permanently on a ‘plan’. It’s like I’ve half brainwashed myself, but my old impulses are still there.

I need to incorporate more free choice into my eating. Even if it undermines my new habits, I need to put myself back in the driving seat. I certainly need to be less perfectionistic. I had a fail day today which felt somehow necessary.

Anyway, I think that’s a good suggestion Dalia - to incorporate a mod, just to make myself feel in charge again. Thanks so much for checking in with me - it’s great to know that someone understands!

[Soprano]

Hi Octavia

The habits you are developing are what will help you maintain and not rebound. I think you will be better keeping to nos during the week and doing the work to make those habits a choice and not a plan at the weekend.

I understand what you mean in that you want it to be a free choice not to snack etc and I think it will become that in time.

I now find myself in the position of genuinely turning away from a lot of sweet stuff that previously I might have eaten far too much of especially if I was stressed.

Despite what I said above why not take just one week off and try eating intuitively? Before you do have a read of Beyond Chocolate.

I was trying to follow the principles in this book before nos it didn't help my weight loss but it did help me be able to stick to nos by choice I just needed a little more structure than beyond chocolate advocates.

Good luck

[lpearlmom]

I can understand where you are coming from. The first year of NoS was so freeing to me and the simple NoS rules gave me a lot of comfort as well as freeing up a lot of headspace.

After awhile though, I began to really resent the rules. I think mostly because they weren’t my rules and it started to feel a bit too restrictive I guess. I think that’s one attracted me to intermittent fasting. I liked that you moderate by time constraint but within the eating window there’s a lot of flexibility.

Ironically, now I’m thinking of going back to having plates in my window because my weight has stalled so maybe there’s just no way around it. I don’t know and I certainly am not trying to push fasting. Just sharing my experience. No matter how you slice it, it’s not easy.

Hang in there. You’ll eventually find the best approach for you.

Linda

[worth it]

Hi Octavia,

Boy, have I been where you are before... it’s not a fun place. While I can not offer any words of wisdom, I can tell you that during these times (yes, I had a few of them), I actually took a break from No S, AND especially from posting. During these breaks, sometimes I tried other diets and sometimes I didn’t, but ironically, I kept my no snacking habit with about 90% compliance... not at all on purpose. I guess the one No S rule that gave me the most pleasure was to wait and be hungry for my meals (because I thought they tasted way better), I just never stopped. Having this one “foundation†rule continued to help me find my way back to No S over and over again... and even help me to where eventually I could lose weight (now with IF).

I believe that even if you take a conscious break from No S, you will be back again because it is a very sane way to eat.

Best of luck as you sort through all of this....I’m rooting for you and know you will find the best way forward for you!

Hugs 🤗!

[Octavia]

Thank you everyone for the helpful and sympathetic posts. I've just been on holiday, which is why I haven't responded - I didn't go on the internet for a whole week! :-0

I'm feeling in a much better place, and I've taken on board much of your advice, I think. Here's what I feel I'm learning!

Doing the Habitcal was incredibly important for me at first - it wired my head towards compliance. And yet, that magical rewiring also frightened me - I didn't feel entirely in control, and it felt compulsive, almost disorder-like. I know the whole point is for it to feel compulsive...and yet, after a time, that feeling started to seem worrying, not delightful. I've never experienced a disorder-like feeling before in my entire life, regarding eating - I was just your average failed dieter - so this was frightening and a bit of a wake-up call.

So I have spent my holiday week without rules, and have been really pleased to find that I my No S habits are really in tune with my free will (as it currently stands). I've eaten far less than I normally would on holiday. Snacks - yes, I've had fruit and plain biscuits when truly hungry. Sweets - I've had a couple of desserts which made me feel too stuffed. In a way, I've done what Soprano suggested and integrated a bit more Intuitive Eating into my routine. Prior to No S, IE was (not surprisingly) no help to me at all, given my compulsion to use food to treat myself. But now, things are different. I feel I can safely use my intuition to make sensible, non-fattening decisions.

So I definitely feel ready to make some Mods, even though I've always been afraid of dabbling with the brain-wiring/habit-formation aspect of Vanilla No S. But as strict compliance is freaking me out, I'm more than willing to take that risk, in fact I think it's essential for my mental health, even if it rebounds into loss of control (which I don't think it will, as Soprano reassured me). Here's what I'm planning.

All the milk/juice/extra coffee/tea I've been consuming between meals has not agreed with my gut. I need more soluble fibre in my diet, and I certainly need more fruit and veg, so I'm going to have a banana mid morning and an apple & 2 oatcakes mid afternoon. I'll have to do this mindlessly and repetitively if it's to stick as a habit - but will that make me feel freaked out and orthorexic again? Or should I allow these things as free choices, to be dropped or adapted if I so wish? (Please let me know what you guys think!)

All the overeating I've done at weekends has also not agreed with my gut. So I intend to modify my S days by using more intuition: all foods are allowed, but stop when I'm full: don't let them spoil my meals (which truly is the most enjoyable aspect of No S, as Worth it has found!) or risk upsetting my stomach.

I also need to stop thinking about all this stuff. Worth it - you mentioned the idea of not posting for a while. I get that, and might have a break. I'm certainly not doing HabitCal any more, and allowing my days to be not so clear-cut, red or green.

In a way, I want No S to morph into Intuitive Eating, or perhaps Gillian Riley's concept of "free choice". I know the strict ("choice-free") habit-building was necessary to break down my old "system", but I now feel I have to free my head, go back to making my own decisions. I totally get Linda's decision to do IF, then perhaps modify that...WE have to be in the driving seat, at least some of the time.

Habits have to become free choices, I think...even brushing our teeth becomes a free choice, something we do because it's unpleasant if we don't. I need to bear that in mind, to get me to the next stage!

Greetings to everyone, and hope fellow Brits are not melting away in this heatwave! x

[Soprano]

Great to hear from you and sounds like the holiday did you a lot of good.

I'm not sure forcing two snacks is a good idea, whilst I understand your concerns about compulsion and disordered eating I would have thought only having them if you are hungry would be more of a normal reaction, some days you will need them others you won't.

The idea behind Nos as I understand it is to get away from eating more than we need. If you are genuinely hungry between meals I doubt it will lead to an increase in weight.

It's funny you should talk about eating disorders. Once or twice I've found my appetite is so small I've hardly eaten much at a meal and I genuinely had concerns about what if I become anorexic?

But other times I have no problem eating a more normal sized meal. I am eating less than I used to but I've also stopped gaining weight so I obviously didn't need it all. I think my body is now happy knowing we are only ever a few hours away from the next meal and doesn't need to overeat. Some days I need more than others. But that's normal surely?

It's also slowly but surely letting go of the extra pounds

Hope all that makes some sense, I wouldn't be frightened of the process but don't be afraid to do what you need to reassure yourself.

Summer has been great in the UK hasn't it!

[ladybird30]

Somewhere between rigidity and rebellion lies a happy place - only you can decide where that place is. I agree with Soprano that the idea behind No S is not to eat more than our bodies need. If you are hungry when you eat, then you are less likely to be eating too much. And your body will have a chance to settle to whatever is the right weight for you.

[Octavia]

Thanks, Ladybird and Soprano!

I’m reconsidering carrying on with my Habitcal, as it might encourage me consolidate these new changes. I just gave myself a week of yellow squares for my holiday last week (in my more rigid days I would have condemned them as reds!) then filled in a green for yesterday. It was a good day - I didn’t feel hungry, and although I didn’t count calories at the time, I did a rough totting up today and saw that I had eaten fewer cals than on a typical Vanilla day. I like that sentence, Ladybird - ‘somewhere between rigidity and rebellion lies a happy place.’ Hope I am finding that place!

Interesting to hear that you also had that flicker of fear, Soprano, when realising your appetite had diminished. Perhaps it’s good that we are a little wary - it helps to keep us safe. And yes, every day makes different demands on us, so we have to be flexible!

Work beckons, and a very long day...I’d better get off the internet!
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