oolala53

TexArk · Post by **TexArk** » Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:23 pm

I am assuming you have started back to school after the break. I hope things are going smoother for you this semester. I know sometimes there are just bad situations and it is tough to face them every day.

Sweetness · Post by **Sweetness** » Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:27 pm

oolala53 wrote:Not sure if I should call today a fail. Went out to dinner after a dance class to Mexican fast food. Had a half a burrito there. If I had been home, I would have put it on a plate with some other items. I had some extra food when I came home but not all of it what I would have had, though it would have fit on a plate. Anyway, a little full.

I think you could safely call that virtual plating and/or funny stuff. Not a fail. Success!

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:49 pm

Haven't started back to school yet TexArk, and thank you for thinking of me. We start the school year mid-summer so our breaks mid-year are longer. Next Tuesday I will start second semester. I have been doing a lot of spiritual and psychological work to help me combat the difficulties, but I won't really know if much has shifted truly until I'm in the room with the inevitable difficulties to see if they have the same effect. I am hoping only for a lessening of intensity, not a complete turnaround.

Thanks for your vote of confidence, Sweetness. (I guess that's why they call you that...) It's funny how the interpretation of these things are affected by the aftermath. I've been having a relatively easy time sticking to moderation (or even less), so that infringement seems minor now. The real issue to me was how full I felt. But it's moot now.

Been doing well on vacation. Had another "funny stuff" event that turned out fine. However, I want "funny stuff" to remain the exception.

Sweetness · Post by **Sweetness** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:28 pm

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:25 am

After all that, had relatively big yet guilt-free fail today. I could blame it on a bunch of things but bottom line is I ate a ton of sugar today and other food, all at odd hours. It's 4:15 p.m. I'll see how I feel at my regular dinner time. May elect to wait until later, have a very light meal, or even forego the meal because of complete lack of hunger. I'm at the point at which that doesn't usually backfire.

I know I sound like a lightweight since the east coast-ers live in such cold climes, but I'm glad to be back from northern CA. It's already colder there as a rule and there were lower temps than usual while I was there. In fact, my trip back got extended by several hours because a crucial part of the freeway south was closed because of icy road conditions. Made for a loooong loop around Los Angeles. Oh, well.

I'm sitting right in front of a space heater even as I type.

snapdragon · Post by **snapdragon** » Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:30 pm

I dream of living in California. It looks so beautiful, and you seem to always have the best produce! I don't know why but I am always shocked the first real cold we get.I have lived in the Chicago suburbs since I was two years old. last night running from my car to a resteraunt was awful. The cold wind hits you in the face and catches you off gard! I I am running errands I don't bother with a winter coat unless it's less than 20 degrees that's -6 Celsius I hate wearing a bulky winter coat!

snapdragon · Post by **snapdragon** » Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:41 pm

I often hear of people having things like persimmon trees in their back yard. And the huge wonderful farmers market. We have farmer's markets too and there are lots of farms where we live, but the markets are quite small and produce is usually boring IMHO .I am not a purist either nut I don't enjoy most fruits because they are often picked while still green and shipped. Luckily I love veggies and apples too.
I like snow too but am willing to make the sacrifice!

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:42 am

We're more likely to have citrus than persimmons. Or pomegranates. Hey, come to think of it, I'd like to have a persimmon or pomegranate tree.

Have had three good days after what I realize now was a pretty full weekend. Getting hunger back-- I love her!

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:23 pm

I'm feeling freaked about having to submit paperwork today for a loan refi. I even took the day off from work but am still procrastinating.

And I'm on my other site too much. I'm losing patience with people and all their dickering. People feeling they have to make excuses for eating normal food. I just want to shout, "Eat meals! Just real meals! You're making it way too complicated and perpetuating your own bondage to food!"

Yeah, a little dramatic.

Okay, coffee and paperwork.

MJ7910 · Post by **MJ7910** » Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:08 am

i really like this idea you have about bondage to food. i think we do get in that state of mind. like i have my breakfast and it's pretty much the same thing every day. lunch is pretty similar. dinner i try to keep small. wonder sometimes if i let myself eat different stuff (that's not sweets) if i would enjoy my meals more.

milliem · Post by **milliem** » Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:54 pm

A few ladies in my office are on the Slimming World diet and we were talking about what is restricted today. Within the bounds of 'good foods' that SW recommends they can't eat SOUP. Soup!! For some reason they also have to limit the amount of milk they drink, so if they want a bowl of cereal they can't have any milk in tea or coffee. I just think, of all the things that lead to people putting on weight I really don't think it's soup and milk that are the major problems!

Sorry for dropping in here with a rant hehe, but it reminded me how sane NoS is in terms of just eating normal food.

Hope you're managing to beat that procrastination today

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:34 pm

Hardly a rant. Just listening to those kinds of plans just sounds so sad. I'm so convinced that these restrictions perverts the ability to just eat rationally. On another board, one woman brought up low carb stuff so much it even started to get to me and I found myself starting to fret a bit.

No BS · Post by **No BS** » Sat Jan 26, 2013 10:21 am

oolala53 wrote:"Eat meals! Just real meals! You're making it way too complicated and perpetuating your own bondage to food!"

Fabulous advice!

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:36 am

Had a fail yesterday. Slightly scary because it was SO unnecessary. But I have been feeling like eating so little while I've been sick that that thought that I could afford the calories ruled. But it's not a matter of whether I could afford the calories or not. It's more that the food didn't add much pleasure and prevented me from having much of an appetite for dinner, which is a higher priority. Not a catastrophe, but I hope that one doesn't get to me again soon.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:33 pm

Still feeling slightly nauseous. Think I'll eat a little breakfast anyway as I don't want to get as hungry as I was for lunch on Friday.

I'm not exactly complaining, though I don't like losing my appetite. It's a false situation. But I could be a lot sicker. I'm thinking of my 38-yr-old nephew who is on disability with MS and rheumatoid arthritis. He also just broke up with his fiancee yesterday, though it was his call. Never easy. He won't tell my sister what the issue was, and he's not coming down to SoCal this week, as he had been planning. He's a funny guy. I would have thought it would be good for him to get away and see old friends down here, for support.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:50 pm

Wasn't hungry for lunch but felt weak later, so I ate it around 4 p.m. Wasn't hungry later but was in the mood for some starch. Ended up having what felt like quite a lot of pasta and rice. Didn't get nauseous for the first time in over a week, but it came back this morning. A little disturbed that I could jump back into eating starch for practically no good reason last night. I chalk it up officially to "medicine."

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:31 am

Been having a few fails after dinner. Clamped down on it tonight. Two more until S days. 4-day weekend coming but no plans for NWS days.

MJ7910 · Post by **MJ7910** » Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:53 pm

we sound similar with the after dinner thing! what runs through your head that makes you snack and what have been helpful in dealing with it. yesterday i had the same thing. wanted to eat something really badly but i wasn't hungry so i just had some beverages.

HoeHanna · Post by **HoeHanna** » Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:29 pm

Y'all just reminded me that I may have to feel a little uncomfortable while doing this and that it's okay. Literally saved me from finishing off some VERY VERY bad Valentine crap, walked outside and tossed it in the compost pile (a place I will never dig it out of). Sounds extreme but let's be honest, I have a serious problem with food or I wouldn't need you guys. OMG! the years & energy I've spent talking myself into or out of an eating situation. I only want to figure out how to stop the chatter between my "SENSIBLE" eating self & my "REDICULOUS" eating self. I want so badly to be a normal person who can focus on other things. I'm too old for this nosense and have to get it together so I can live happy and free in my retirement years, happily gardening & knitting while feeling GOOD! Happy Valentine's day to us. GO GREEN!

No BS · Post by **No BS** » Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:03 pm

HoeHanna wrote: let's be honest, I have a serious problem with food or I wouldn't need you guys.

We all do, HoeHanna, we all do. Or we wouldn't need No "S" and the support offered by everyone on this BB.

Your post is very powerful & very moving.

No BS · Post by **No BS** » Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:05 pm

@oolala:

The after-dinner sneak snack attack warrants a full-scale assault by you on the home "invader". Good for you for clamping down!!

Strawberry Roan · Post by **Strawberry Roan** » Sat Feb 16, 2013 1:51 pm

Stopping by to say HI ! Been gone a while but I am bacccckkkkk..

Your stats tell me that you are still doing great! Way to go.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:55 pm

I had a rather big fail on the Friday of the 4-day weekend, but I didn't freak. Had two very tame S days and back to business.

I've been experimenting with eating some very light meals (mostly vegetables) when I'm not hungry for one, even if the previous one was very moderate. I feel I have to tread lightly as I don't want to get caught up in being too "virtuous," as that often backfires when an imp comes out, cajoling for all the "missed" food. But it's feeling more natural to have the light meal, not as a diet, but as a response to the need.

I haven't measured myself in a long time. I was rummaging in a little basket in my bathroom this morning and happened on a measuring tape that I bought way back. It has a feature that helps keep you from pulling too tight. Anyway, I was surprised to see that my waist has dropped below 30. I was beginning to think it wouldn't, though I wasn't worried, since for women, the cutoff for the correlation between waist size and diabetes, etc., is 31, and I've been close for a long time. But I think I've lost three inches from each thigh in these three years, too. So glad I wasn't in a hurry and gave up. I know I have a card with the actual measurements on it somewhere: I'll post in the testimonial when I do my spring weigh-in.

No BS · Post by **No BS** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:14 am

Oolala, your measured & informative posts are always an inspiration.

We move mountains to move inches. And learn so much in the process.

Sweetness · Post by **Sweetness** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:56 pm

Very happy for you on inches lost! Encouraging!

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Sat Mar 09, 2013 1:22 am

I am only about 80% compliant right now, but my slips are small in comparison with the first year. However, I do want to tighten up; I just don't want to do it out of guilt and shame. Size isn't the main reason I do this, but my pants are fitting about the same or are even looser anyway.

Have one event planned at which I can have sweets this weekend. Might be another one Sunday, but I will play that by ear. I may not be in the mood.

No BS · Post by **No BS** » Sat Mar 09, 2013 1:28 am

Have a great weekend, oolala!

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:05 am

Ironically, though I continue not to be 100% compliant on N days, I still feel very good about my level of participation. Had a decent weekend even with some overeating, but I realize I'm just not willing at this point to be more strict. Once again, I hope I'm not kidding myself.

The two mods I'm using now are only on S days. I eat sweets only in the company of others, and , if I'm not hungry for a meal at a reasonable time, say after 6 hours of not eating, which often happens on S days, I have plenty of vegetables thrown in broth if the weather is cold, or a big, colorful salad with a relatively light dressing if the weather is hot. A piece of fruit is optional. I'm not always successful implementing that, but I don't freak about it.

Though I ultimately don't believe that weight loss is the final measure of success on this or any eating plan, since people can lose weight temporarily by doing some pretty crazy things, I will be posting my quarterly weigh-in on Mar. 21. Many people seem to be inspired by it and if that's what it takes to get some to give it a real chance, so be it. Sorry if I'm repeating myself.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:07 am

Success officially. I say officially because even though I ate a very small breakfast and very moderate lunch, I was not one bit hungry for dinner, but chose to eat. Reinhard says to go ahead and eat pre-emptively in such situations. I guess I could have chosen to eat even more lightly than I did, even though it was not a heavy dinner. Oh, this continued conundrum.

In any case, the kitchen is closed.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:13 am

Recording my seasonal weigh-in. Down 4.3 lbs. since last one Dec. 21. Hope this means the chinks are getting filled in.

Oh, forgot to add that this puts me about 1.5 lbs. above what I weighed when I graduated from high school. I think.

Sweetness · Post by **Sweetness** » Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:23 am

oolala53 wrote:Recording my seasonal weigh-in. Down 4.3 lbs. since last one Dec. 21. Hope this means the chinks are getting filled in.

Oh, forgot to add that this puts me about 1.5 lbs. above what I weighed when I graduated from high school. I think.

Nice!

Strawberry Roan · Post by **Strawberry Roan** » Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:24 pm

Wow, look at those numbers. You have lost almost forty pounds since starting the weigh ins on here.

Amazing!

Congrats.

sophiasapientia · Post by **sophiasapientia** » Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:19 pm

Way to go!!!! You are an inspiration!

Sinnie · Post by **Sinnie** » Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:26 pm

Wow congrats oolala!!! You really really are an inspiration here. I learn so much from your posts. Please continue to enlighten us

No BS · Post by **No BS** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:34 am

Kudos, oolala! You give all of us hope!

NoSRocks · Post by **NoSRocks** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 2:17 am

HIP HIP HOORAY!!

!!

WAY TO GO ON THE WEIGHT LOSS, OOLALA!!

MANY CONGRATULATIONS! YOU ROCK!!!

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 2:58 am

Thanks for noticing, all!

Strawberry, you're right I've been thinking for so long that I had lost around 30 lb.that I didn't see how close it had come. Forty sounds very respectable. And a lot of it has come more toward the recent past. And it's still not the point. I'm just finding it harder and harder to justify eating any more than I do. I'm just not hungry enough!

Sinnie, I'd actually like to be able to stop myself from enlightening people here because I still spend a lot of time doing it. But it's still fun for me! I'm afraid I"m a bit of a fanatic online. I rarely talk about it with anyone out loud. I'm not interested much in debating with detractors. But I love proselytizing.

No BS, if sane, moderate eating is your goal, you should have hope! As I've said before, I didn't start in order to lose weight, but to lose binging. I secretly hoped to get into my normal BMI range less for appearance's sake than because I had been there before and I knew I was overeating for decades. It bothered me a lot more that I was often eating more than I was hungry for than that I was fat, though I was never fat and happy. But the image of myself as a moderate eater who really enjoys food and accepts the results has been essential motivator for me, years after wanting to be skinny or to be an athlete or whatever the going ideal was. This one I can live with.

NoSRocks, you've been an inspiration, too. Your experience after some flatlinging made me realize I wanted to make some kind of modification to S days. That's still not a breeze, but I think it's actually made me more likely to eat less on N days, too. Less appetite, lighter meals. And not torture at all!

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 4:47 am

Success.

NoSRocks · Post by **NoSRocks** » Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:50 am

Thanks so much for your very nice compliment, oolala. Really good to hear that lil' old me could be an inspiration to others.

From reading your latest post, it seems like we have both reached the same stage of the No S Journey; it took me some time and even now I have my moments, but something inside my head just 'clicked' that day back in June of last year when I truly felt I'd had enough of my 'overeating junk for the sake of it' S Days. I was beginning to think that day would never, ever come but with a bit of patience and renewed (strengthened) faith in the program, I managed to get there in the end! It feels a really good place to be in, now I am no longer fretting over my S Days. There aren't really any official S Days for me anymore. I don't look at weekends as any different from week days now. BUT if I wanted to have a nice treat, I could.

Again, Many Well deserved Congratulations, oolala.

finallyfull · Post by **finallyfull** » Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:56 pm

Wow, congratulations! I love that you took 3 years to do it, too, because just over 3 months in, I am really focusing on the long-term and on the goal, "success" being moderation, while trusting that my body will find the weight that goes with moderation.

I wonder if you will indulge me with some more detail. Here is my question: can you elaborate on your level of feeling satisfied and your enjoyment of eating? Is your level of moderation really moderate, or would most of us consider it "light"? Would someone observing you without your knowing come to the conclusion that you were on a diet?

Not to be nosy -- I just want reassurance! I have gained 3 pounds but I consider it part of the learning process, as I train my body to trust me, so I can ratchet my portions back to the size that is small enough to keep me from gaining but big enough not to "scare" me.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:11 pm

By now, my day's eating MIGHT look light, but it has taken this long for my appetite and willingness to merge. I've eaten a lot of freggies at my meals for years, so people who see me just think I eat healthy, I think. (They didn't know about the bingeing I did at home, or in the car, etc.) However, I hardly ever turn down pizza or any other meal food because it's supposed to be fattening, so that might confuse 'em. Because I tend to have a lot of freggies with whatever I'm eating, I don't think people think I'm eating pretty small portions. The plate doesn't have a lot of empty space...

I'd just say try not to be in too much of a hurry to get to the point of eating as little as possible, though. But do get to your meals legitimately hungry. My first two years, I was usually very hungry for each of my meals, and I was eating more than I eat now. But as time has gone on, I just don't get as hungry. It might be No S, or it might be age. Even if it is age, I think No S prepared me for going with it more. (Although I actually do wish sometimes that I had more of an appetite! I distinguish appetite from that anxious desire to eat.)

Sweetness · Post by **Sweetness** » Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:40 pm

oolala53 wrote:
I'd just say try not to be in too much of a hurry to get to the point of eating as little as possible, though. But do get to your meals legitimately hungry. My first two years, I was usually very hungry for each of my meals, and I was eating more than I eat now. But as time has gone on, I just don't get as hungry. It might be No S, or it might be age. Even if it is age, I think No S prepared me for going with it more. (Although I actually do wish sometimes that I had more of an appetite! I distinguish appetite from that anxious desire to eat.)

Thanks Oolala, well said. I have been on No S for about a year and a half now and am just now getting to the point where putting a little less on my plate feels good. I think I'm getting over my fear of the hunger feeling and instead it's become a friend. Having a good appetite makes food taste better. I am very grateful for your example as someone who has stuck it out.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:49 pm

As an example of a smaller appetite, I had no hunger at breakfast time today. Since I"m on vacation, I opted for a big bowl of vegetable soup! I was hungry and ready for a real meal around noon, and had a leftover half a burrito and veggies plus lettuce from a meal out last night. And a banana. I will allow myself to eat at 5 if I"m starved, but I"m going to try to make it to 6 or beyond.

No BS · Post by **No BS** » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:03 am

Since I started working out after work (and before dinner) I find the exercise has totally taken the edge off my appetite and is, I feel, the sole reason my portions have gotten smaller.

Totally different on the weekends when I don't do my workout routines.

Sweetness · Post by **Sweetness** » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:10 am

No BS wrote:Since I started working out after work (and before dinner) I find the exercise has totally taken the edge off my appetite and is, I feel, the sole reason my portions have gotten smaller.

Totally different on the weekends when I don't do my workout routines.

I think you have something there. Exercise has made me content with less food too, I think. Must be some kind of chemical explanation.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Fri Mar 29, 2013 2:59 am

I always read that people who start exercising claim their appetites increase, but I always thought it was their imagination. It dampens mine, at least temporarily. I'm guessing that the increased energy need gets the body to draw the glycogen stored in the liver and thus dulls appetite until it's used up. But I'm not an expert.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Fri Mar 29, 2013 3:12 am

I had a fail after dinner. Had cereal. I've got to either accept that I need a bigger dinner or just bite the bullet even if I don't feel quite full enough and wait it out.

MJ7910 · Post by **MJ7910** » Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:50 am

Sorry to hear about the fail, but sounds like you know how to adjust things

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:47 am

TX, MJ.

Had another day of almost no hunger. Had coffee with cream around 9 a.m. Then a hot chocolate around 11:30. (Was visiting with a friend and gabbing.) At a get together, I had about a handful of savory snacky foods and a half a cookie, plus some tea with sugar around 1:30 p.m.. Some twinges of hunger at around 6 p.m. Decided to get falafel at a local Middle Eastern restaurant. Rice, tabouli, hummus. Took most of it home, but enjoyed it. Wanted more crunch. Carrot, pea pods, apple, a little cereal.

Not terrible at all, but I still wish I would just forget food when I'm not hungry, esp. when I had had a nice, socially active weekend, much more interaction than normal and very pleasant.

MJ7910 · Post by **MJ7910** » Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:04 am

Its great that you are not hungry as much but I know what you mean, it can cause problems later in the day.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:39 am

I actually don't like not being hungry because it doesn't mean I don't still want food. If I could just forget about food when I wasn't hungry, it would be great. But I WANT to have the experience of a meal, and I would esp. LIKE to be hungry when I eat it. Oh, well, I'm not in charge of it. I can only be in charge of what I actually eat.

success today.

gk · Post by gk » Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:16 am

Good job on the success today.

I like how you show the progression of your weight loss in your signature line. Very encouraging to see - such a great job!

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:30 am

gk, weight loss wasn't my goal, but I know it is the carrot for many people, so I include it. And I especially want to catch those who are ready to accept the long view.

Forgot that I had made plans to have dinner with a friend, but it turned out okay. I gave myself permission to get a bread roll after dinner because the restaurant did not offer any starches that sounded good to me. I went by a diner that I used to frequent in my "poorer" days. I don't think I'd enjoy the dinners now, but the rolls were always great- and still are! I felt very happy with my choice to eat the roll on the way home, and settled down with a roasted barley drink when I got home. Ah, sanity!

virtual plate success.

Sweetness · Post by **Sweetness** » Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:32 am

oolala53 wrote:I actually don't like not being hungry because it doesn't mean I don't still want food. If I could just forget about food when I wasn't hungry, it would be great. But I WANT to have the experience of a meal, and I would esp. LIKE to be hungry when I eat it. Oh, well, I'm not in charge of it. I can only be in charge of what I actually eat.

success today.

I got a little taste of what you mean Friday and Saturday, when I had some kind of mild stomach issue and diminished appetite. I didn't like it. I love to have an appetite, I guess because I love to eat. Could it be that your smaller size gives you a smaller appetite? I admire your control though. You are my hero.

noni · Post by **noni** » Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:39 pm

oolala53 wrote:I always read that people who start exercising claim their appetites increase, but I always thought it was their imagination. It dampens mine, at least temporarily. I'm guessing that the increased energy need gets the body to draw the glycogen stored in the liver and thus dulls appetite until it's used up. But I'm not an expert.

If I walk on my treadmill 20-30 minutes, a nice easy walk, I'm okay. But when I tried going longer, at least 45 minutes , than I would soon feel hungry and shaky every time.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:47 pm

Well, dang it, I have to admit it, I have fallen off the wagon. I actually had what I would call a binge yesterday, eating a small package of the turtle Chex mix and a whole container (in a kind of bag with a decorating tip) of the frosting called S'mores. I call it a fail because I made a mod for myself several months ago that I could not eat sweets alone. But you know, I didn't feel completely yucky and I didn't freak. BUT, I did pull out a pair of pants I had in bag ready to give to Goodwill because the pair I had bought to replace them were too tight around the waist to wear. I'm not going to punish myself by wearing uncomfortable clothes. Yet, I did feel a bit disappointed that I had to get those pants out. More importantly, I'm puzzled and slightly disturbed that it was so easy to get back in the habit of ruining my appetite. I can't even explain why I started following what the voices sometimes say: oh, eating this little bit won't be a problem, you've been so good, weight loss is not your goal, etc.

I am thinking I need to get back to fence around the law. Got to start reading my list of reasons again and enforcing some of the suggestions I've made to others!

Sweetness · Post by **Sweetness** » Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:08 am

Oolala,
OK, we found out that you are still human and you admitted it. You are still my hero. So you know the routine, brush the crumbs off, wipe the frosting off your face... and move on. And don't beat yourself up! We all love you.

Strawberry Roan · Post by **Strawberry Roan** » Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:16 am

Yes, I agree. Brush it off and move on. I love the raw honesty of this board. We are here to support each other. The very fact that it bothers you shows that you will be back on track. You know how you enjoy living so I have no doubt you will resume that lifestyle

tobiasmom · Post by **tobiasmom** » Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:05 pm

You can and will move on! You have been such a rock for me. You're always a stud in my book

finallyfull · Post by **finallyfull** » Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:10 pm

I like the phrase "failing forward." It's not the falling, it's the getting back up again.

I'm sure there is something or many things to be learned from each red day.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:31 pm

You darling people are the best!

~reneew · Post by **~reneew** » Thu Apr 25, 2013 2:21 pm

oolala53 wrote: this puts me about 1.5 lbs. above what I weighed when I graduated from high school. I think.

Sososososo jealous! Congratulations!

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:47 pm

TX, renew. I know I'm a bit more doughy now, but I'll take it.

Eeyore · Post by **Eeyore** » Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:38 pm

I just love your thread!!!

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:58 pm

Feeling rather hollow right now. Found out a few hours ago that a man (younger than I am), who was also a member of a Zen center I used to atttend, died of cancer yesterday. I think it is especially poignant because one of the reasons so much Zen practice is involved with mindfulness of the present moment is as a preparation for the moment of death or the circumstances leading up to it. Zen teachers will often say that nearly all our fears and desires in life can be traced down to fear and avoidance of death. And that the fears and desires are all unnecessary because all is one anyway. But no real peace can come just from this as a concept. It must be experienced.

I have a belief (not Zen) that if there is any moment in our lives during which we may become truly aware of oneness, it will be at death. That is why it is so important to practice not getting caught by my memories of the past or projections of the future. Many spiritual disciplines teach that the spirit is eternal, but I've never encountered any as willing as Zen to take that to heart. Zen members will accept sadness and grief, but they do not believe that there is any real reason for it because for oneness, there is no such thing as loss. In the confines of the group, there will be little attempt to either reinforce any sadness or to avoid any, either. I'm probably not explaining this very well and don't want anyone to think Zen practitioners are a heartless bunch.

The last quotation recited at the weekly ceremony at our Center, after three doleful wooden hammerings on wood, is a Buddhist prayer: "Let us be respectfully reminded. Life AND DEATH [caps mine] are of supreme importance. Time swiftly passes by, and with it, our only chance. Each of us must aspire to awaken. Be aware; do not squander our life." Then three more knocks.

Then we go out on the patio and jabber like Methodists but without the coffee and donuts.

tlingit · Post by **tlingit** » Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:15 am

I'm sorry to hear of your friends passing. It's tough to say the right things, but really, or this time, there is no one right thing. When someone leaves, for me it always brings up an old echo of other losses as well. Peace to you and yours.

finallyfull · Post by **finallyfull** » Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:12 pm

Sorry for your loss. Glad you have a wise and supportive group.

Sweetness · Post by **Sweetness** » Sat Apr 27, 2013 7:25 pm

Oolala, sorry for your loss. It's hard, and I feel for you. Life is so short, and we all need to treasure our friends and family while we have them with us.

eschano · Post by **eschano** » Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:13 pm

oolala53 wrote:I have a belief (not Zen) that if there is any moment in our lives during which we may become truly aware of oneness, it will be at death.

That is very beautiful and profound Oolala. Many thanks for sharing. I'll light a candle for your friend.

Strawberry Roan · Post by **Strawberry Roan** » Fri May 10, 2013 12:59 pm

Very sorry for your loss, oolala, beautiful tribute.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Sun May 12, 2013 9:40 pm

Been doing okay. Atypical grazing yesterday. Even with small meals, not much hunger today. I'm having a guest over for dinner before we go to a comedy show so I can't wait for hunger, necessarily. I'll just eat moderately. I refuse to starve.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Thu May 16, 2013 5:33 am

I've actually lost some of my No S mojo. I think I've figured out that it's because my appetite has decreased so much, yet I still desire to experience the pleasure from eating more. However, it's not as much fun. Even when I eat moderately, I don't get that hungry for my next meal but I don't want to eat less or wait longer, so I'm just not experiencing the pleasure I did for so long. However, I'm not willing to throw in the towel. Just have to see what happens.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Sat May 18, 2013 5:22 pm

Oh, my. Actually a little worried today. I haven't had more than a few green N days in weeks. Yesterday, I had a full-blown crash the car eating day, though it's funny how much less food it takes for that. I didn't eat a half a cake or a bag of Hershey's kisses, but enough that I have an eating hangover. Feel lousy. I remember the first time I ever had a booze hangover, which wasn't until I was in my mid-twenties, I couldn't believe that the boys I had known in high school got drunk and hung over every weekend. How could they stand it, I thought. Yet here I am. Forty months in and I am still vulnerable. I've had enough fails that I'm a bit scared. Was it because I dropped too low? Good lord, my BMI was only 24 , not even close to the low end of normal. I can feel in some clothes that I've gained, though I know it's not a lot. (But I also found out a couple of months ago that I've lost height, so it wouldn't take much to go back to the overweight range. I keep saying weight loss wasn't my goal. And it really still isn't because if I were eating better, I would be feeling much better and it wouldn't matter what I weighed.)

Nothing to do but basically wait it out. I'm having some veggie soup now. I have a date at 2 p.m. The relationship is new enough that I don't feel comfortable asking if lunch is included. We are going to a kind of a tourist site but also nice for locals to walk around in. He didn't mention food. If I were on my own, I could just play the hangover by ear. And if he were an established boyfriend, I could just say, Hey, I'm hungry. Can we eat? It has been 17 years since I have been in a relaxed, comfortable relationship in which I felt accepted and had a good idea of what to expect.

I know this is partly the hangover talking. I'm also in a bad mood because the office I need to contact about making my mortgage payment to (BofA got rid of me for the second time) is closed on Saturday. I found out they did not get the payment for May. They claim they sent me paperwork, but I can't find it. They won't give me my new loan number on line, and the old one isn't allowing me access, and ....aaargh!

I still have housework to do. Okay, housework first, shower and shampoo, work on organizing papers.

Well, it's been a few minutes and I'm surprised to find out that I actually feel better after my soup. That slightly nauseous feeling is gone. So far, so good.

finallyfull · Post by **finallyfull** » Mon May 20, 2013 5:21 pm

Just keep counting those three plates a day. Resist the urge to imagine a new bad pattern is emerging. There is always the next normal meal to jump right back into normalcy again.

I wonder if your life is adding some extra stress that's coming out in your relationship with food? Maybe some soothing is in order?

Keep inspiring me, you've done so well!

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Mon May 20, 2013 6:07 pm

I don't know if I already talked about it but the new "stressor" is that my appetite has decreased even more and I don't feel happy anymore with how little I have to eat to get hungry for my meals. I don't feel as much pleasure anymore from my meals, and that was a big reward for a long time, enough of a reward to counteract what I gave up waiting until the next meal for.

I'm not alone in having to face this and decide what to do. But it is challenging because my impetus has never been to lose weight or become a certain weight, but to eat so that I feel happy and vital, and for a long time, I did feel that way when I got hungry for my meals. I did not anticipate getting to the point at which I wouldn't be pleased and satisfied with the amounts it takes to do that. The dilemma is that I don't really feel good either way, either eating less for my meals nor eating the same amount, and I don't have much other incentive to stick to the plan besides feeling great!

This is why stats show it takes 2-5 years to make solid changes in eating behavior. It's normal for there to be hissy fits along the way. People want them to be over in a few weeks or months, and certain don't want to face them years into it. This used to be my major problem on S days. I went for a long time not being able to limit the wildness even though I rarely felt hungry, but eventually, I got tired enough of it that I was willing to change some behaviors. I never felt that I could speed up that process, though I may have been wrong. I'll never know! I'm just going to have to keep pegging away. What's the alternative, a diet? Honestly, I'm not willing to try anything because I believe it will backfire anyway.

finallyfull · Post by **finallyfull** » Tue May 21, 2013 2:18 pm

I'm confused. You say you are eating more lately, because you need less food and are not hungry? How does that work? (I'm not being a smartass here, I promise, I am truly curious and would like to know more.)

Are you indulging in sweets, snacks, or seconds, or all three?

I would think maybe just slowing down and enjoying three tiny meals or even two moderate ones would be more enjoyable than having "esses" on N days. The answer to a lack of hunger surely can't be eating more, can it?

Strawberry Roan · Post by **Strawberry Roan** » Thu May 23, 2013 1:44 pm

I have been there, oolala, as you know.

When I first went Gung Ho with the No S system, I lost way too much weight - looked awful.

So, used that as an excuse to gain - too much.

Then I just quit over thinking it. I don't do the NO S thing, I just try to eat right and exercise.

My weight has stayed the same for a long time - gained a few pounds over the holidays last winter and quickly lost them. I just eat healthy meals with an occasional ice cream float (last night) or piece of cake at a baby shower or whatever. I don't worry about what day it is, where I am at, who I am with, I just try to live a normal rational healthy life.

If you are hungry, eat. If you are not, don't eat (unless this would present a medical problem). I do this all the time, people around me are used to it. Even if we are out at a restaurant, I don't eat just to be eating. If I truly am not hungry, I will have some unsweetened tea or something while the others eat.

I love to exercise so that helps. I love feeling my body move and seeing muscles and the strength that brings me. Going on 65 years old, I feel as good as I did at 35.

Don't over think it. Today's society has made billions by us doing so.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Wed May 29, 2013 10:46 pm

I know it sounds paradoxical and is, but I'm an ex-binger and bingers don't eat because they're hungry. I wanted to quit binging because I felt so crappy a lot of the time. No S made me feel so much better so much more of the time, but in the last several months, I don't feel better. I would often wake up feeling almost as crappy as when I was overeating, but I still wanted the pleasure of a meal. I wanted the EXPERIENCE of eating. Well, when you eat for the experience and not to satisfy hunger, you often end up overeating. I rarely actually binge, but it can feel the same even eating 1/5 of what I used to eat. Anyway, yes, it's illogical, but here we are. I have had some good days and don't despair of getting back my mojo; I'm just honest that I don't have it now. It doesn't change my intent.

finallyfull · Post by **finallyfull** » Mon Jun 03, 2013 1:15 pm

I think being honest is the key -- the paradox exists, there it is, you can look at it. Awareness is the antidote to denial, I think.

Are you eating slowly enough? I totally share your desire to enjoy the "experience" of eating and the smaller amounts pose a problem. But for me, who has always been a super fast eater, slowing it way down (not in the "chew 50 times" way but in the "taste everything, feel everything" way) has greatly expanded my enjoyment of the experience. I dare say I enjoy it MORE now while eating less because I was such a hoover vacuum before. Still am, when I forget.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Sat Jun 08, 2013 4:26 am

Okay, I'm in a bit of trouble, so to speak. I know I have gained weight- not a lot and I don't think it's a catastrophe, but it annoys me partly because I have this belief that it's not unreasonable for me to assume I could weigh what I weighed when I graduated from high school, mostly because I wasn't considered thin then and I certainly didn't limit my intake. I have the thought that it should be even more doable because I've shrunk an inch, so the amount is generous. And I'm annoyed because I so believe in the wisdom of No S and have done so well at times. Plus I've preached patience and techniques for getting back on track. But every time I try to get back in the groove, it feels like rebelliousness, as if I'm "going on a diet," kicks in. Then again, I think I just have to get over the hump.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:58 pm

I've had three pretty good days since Friday. I don't want to jinx it drawing any conclusions.

MJ7910 · Post by **MJ7910** » Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:59 am

I read what you were going through lately and I can relate. Whenever I feel like I'm "on a diet" i do the same thing - rebel! So I lost a little bit of weight this month and was thinking about how I could lose more. I had to stop myself. I realized if I let No S do its thing I will lose weight slowly and settle at the right weight. and that is ok! so i understand. you might be thinking of putting some rules on but really maybe it's more about putting things on one plate and just being ok with that! i know you will get there again.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Sat Jun 15, 2013 5:18 am

I has such a big fail the other day that I'm grateful for a small fail today!

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:19 pm

Still not experiencing true hunger very often, but still trying to eat on a regular schedule. Not nearly the pleasure I used to have from my meals and fasts in between meals as I did the first two and a half years, but I'm getting a little more at peace with that. Went out with a new friend for dinner last night. I had considered skipping dinner because I had a rich lunch (though small) and just wasn't hungry, but I got invited out. It was a little painful to watch my friend. He has said several times that he wants to eat less because he's put on weight while living temporarily on his boat, but I can see him caught by so many of the eating traps out there. Before we left, he said what he was really hungry for was a salad and a glass of wine. I'm pretty sure that actually matched his real appetite, but at the (Mexican) restaurant, he got salad and a plate of food, not opting for any of the lighter selections he could have. We often share what we get, but he ate so fast, nearly the whole plate was gone before I could get a bite! Plus, he said he would take home one of the enchiladas, but then kept whittling away at it. Maybe it was harder to watch than usual because I wasn't that hungry, either, but didn't want to miss out on the experience. I was so glad I opted for the vegetable soup. It didn't help that the restaurant was so freaking loud that it was a struggle to try to carry on a conversation. People are so loud these days! It's a shame because the food at this place is very good and they have all kinds of options Mexican restaurants often don't have, but I think I'll only get takeout there from now on. We had a similar experience at an Italian place that has wonderful food. Fortunately, it's warming up enough to use the patio there.

What happened to quiet restaurants? Are they quiet these days only if they're lousy? I don't enjoy being the only people in a restaurant, but I miss liking the total experience.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:35 am

I decided to have only two meals today. I was going to have brunch at 11:30 and dinner at the regular time because I felt I needed that much time between meals to work up the appetite. It felt good to get hungry for lunch. I had an appt. at 9:30 and was starting to feel hungry just before it. I gave myself permission to have brunch right after the appt. but I got caught up in tasks and had lunch around 12:30 p.m. It was great to be hungry! But I felt so full after just a little more than a chicken leg, half a cup of corn, some crudites, and some cherries. Do I really need to eat less than that?

Wasn't starved for dinner but ate around 6:30 p.m. I was full but still wanted to eat. Didn't used to feel that way. Enough was enough. Oh, well. Just keep going.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Sat Jun 22, 2013 9:26 pm

Because my quarterly weight recording is coming up, I've been weighing each day. It makes me shudder for people who plan their eating around their weight. I haven't been that hungry, especially in the morning, and I haven't eaten breakfast the past three days. I've been eating mostly at home and have very moderate meals, even small, with mostly freggies just because that's all I've had an appetite for. I weighed a pound more one day than the next. I know I eat way less than 3,500 calories in two days, never mind a excess in one day. If I were eating by my scale weight, who knows how low I'd think I have to go.

BTW, I've dropped a pound at times overnight. No way I burned up an extra 3,500 calories.

finallyfull · Post by **finallyfull** » Mon Jun 24, 2013 1:08 pm

I bet you already covered this, but have you thought about some weight lifting? I have heard it can make you hungry, over time, probably because muscle burns more. Plus it's of course great to have strong muscles.

Just a thought.

I'll be curious to see how your 2 meals a day goes. Sometimes I think that might work better for me, eventually.

I think eating a normal amount, even if it's small for you, is hard in the modern era. It's hard enough at first to turn down the avalanche of food everywhere, but when your meals have to be small too, while everyone else seems to pile it on, must be hard. Sometimes I see that my dinners need to be small, and on shopping day I feel the same way I do in the library "so many books, so little time, what a shame!" but the truth is, reading one great book slowly, even a dozen times, is probably better for the soul than reading two dozen quickly and forgetting them. Maybe meditating on one carefully thought out, delicious dinner, one wonderful bite at a time, is real enjoyment. Picture a buddhist monk eating a square of cheese for an hour. (Ok I don't know why I came up with that, but I do believe that mindful experience and enjoyment truly ARE more joyful than quantity or variety). In fact, I read the other day that variety and choices make it harder to enjoy the choices we actually make. It's like having too many cable channels so nothing looks good.

Hope any of that makes any sense!

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Mon Jun 24, 2013 4:34 pm

It absolutely makes sense! And I've actually been practicing it the whole time on No S. It has contributed to some of the difficulty resolving itself over the past few days, at least for now.

I have wanted to incorporate regular exercise for the last two years, but have not- yet. I do include resistance work, when I do. However, I was in a West African dance performance Saturday night, and held my own against women 30 years younger. But moderate, consistent exercise is still a goal for me.

I am not committed to two meals, though I ALLOW myself to have just two, if there is not enough hunger for a meal. I'm finding that I can play it by ear, at least now during summer break.

As some of you know, I weigh only quarterly, weighing for one week at a time and averaging the weight of the seven days. The truth is that I gained 2.5 pounds since my spring weigh-in. There, I said it. I know how it happened. Before my spring weigh in, I was eating very little, not on purpose, exactly, but as an experiment of going with my hunger. When I saw my weight loss, my thoughts went crazy. I started planning secretly for even more weight loss, fantasizing about gettting below than my high school weight, imagining all the admiration I would get, and feeling all smug that I had done it without calorie counting, tracking, weighing myself, etc. This began affecting my choices and things went cattywompers. Plus, part of the reason I was eating less at times was that I often felt a mild nausea, and this interfered with my ability to experience natural hunger AND the delightful satisfaction of that hunger that had long been my touchstone. Ironically, when I couldn't get that satisfaction, I sometimes ate more. I probably went up more in weight at various points over the three months because recently, I feel I've been able to sort things out on both accounts, and I can feel my clothes fitting more loosely again.

In any case, life would not be over if I lived at this weight forever. I am very sure I eat good quality food 90% of the time, and that's enough for me. I enjoy myself with food! That is crucial for me. I WILL NOT LIVE BY THE SCALE, NOR BY THE MANUFACTURED MEDIA IDEAL. Those values have NEVER sustained a happy culture. Nor have they led to changed eating habits IN THE LONG RUN. I don't mean to get melodramatic, but they are false idols if I've ever seen any, and I served them long enough. They, in my opinion, are just as much an addiction and mirage of contentment as food is. I will not submit.

I'm actually feeling terrific today, and that is enough.

finallyfull · Post by **finallyfull** » Mon Jun 24, 2013 7:07 pm

I think it's very important to note that it's when you started kind of "dieting" (not really but cutting back maybe?) you gained a little. This is the whole thing for me -- when I "diet" I ultimately gain, so I must fight never to let No S become a diet. As you have said, the best S is vanilla!

By the way, I have been thinking about your lack of hunger problem, and realized it explains why we gain weight -- because when we don't eat between meals, or stretch our bellies with seconds or sweets -- we have to "trick" our capacities by slipping in fourthmeals, or bites or snacks or nibbles so our stomach won't put on the breaks.

finallyfull · Post by **finallyfull** » Mon Jun 24, 2013 7:13 pm

I mean brakes!

The point is, our bodies will naturally moderate if we don't sneak food in the "side door" all the time, and what you are experiencing is nature telling you how much food your body needs, the same way it would tell you if you had enough awake time and needed sleep. We are so disconnected from this rhythm. I very much welcome getting back in touch with it, even though it means I need nine hours sleep (I've stopped fighting that one!) and that I can't eat as much as William the Refrigerator Perry without paying for it with great discomfort. I still agree that tiny dinners sound like a bummer though. quality not quantity, right?

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Mon Jun 24, 2013 7:55 pm

Not just tiny dinners.

In any case, when I don't let myself think about it too much, and just enjoy the food I actually eat rather than dwelling on the food I'm not eating, it's fine.

All part of the 5-year plan.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Fri Jun 28, 2013 7:21 am

Decided to eat my breakfast late and considered eating only one more meal today. No hunger for lunch. My very small-by-my-standard dinner was rushed a bit, so I opted to have a nectarine later. Technically, a green N day, though I wouldn't usually call a nectarine a meal! Dinner was rushed because of a last minute invitation for a swim at a hotel pool. Welcome respite from our first heat wave. I had given myself permission to have a salad or soup with my friend after my rushed dinner because it was so limited compared to my usual full-plate dinner, but I just wasn't that hungry for what was available around the hotel pool.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Fri Jun 28, 2013 7:36 am

None of this is new to me, but I like reviewing it.

http://www.prevention.com/weight-loss/w ... men?page=3

joasia · Post by **joasia** » Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:19 pm

I am thinking you are a teacher too? Do you find it easier or more difficult to no s during summer break? Or maybe not difference? I was doing well with my walking until the 100 degree weather hit in SoCal

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:31 pm

Yes, I am a teacher. This is my fourth summer on No S. It's about the same for me by now whether I'm working or not. Actually, I'm experimenting with having only two meals a couple of days a week because my appetite has decreased so much and I'd rather eat a bit bigger meals less often. I can do that when I'm not working! Might be a way to accommodate it then, too.

We just got our first heat yesterday and record highs are a possibility. I'm leaving town next week. Wish it was today!

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:24 pm

I'm looking back over the 3.5 years and also thinking of how disappointed or even freaked the women on my binge free team on Sparkpeople get over bingeing when they're trying not to. I try not to preach No S on the team, though most know I use it and at least one has adopted it, but I see more and more the value of a combination of calm restraint and freedom in retraining appetite. Of course, the biggest thing that gets in their way is their rejection of their bodies (and really, themselves, as being worthy of acceptance- it is a moral issue for them, and there is no way they can think of themselves as good people if they have this terrible flaw) as they are, which makes even temporary overeating seem unacceptable. It robs them of the patience for the subtle changes. They want it obvious and they want it over. Well, that happens, but very, very rarely.

How can I help them get down off that cliff when I know they are actually just a few inches off the ground?

One woman today wasn't frantic but more sighing over having binged after 21 days of being bf. Well, I figured out that at that rate 21 days of success out 22, or 95.4%, a person could all out binge 16 days a year and still be 95% compliant. If you ask one of them, how often do you want to binge, they'll say never again! Yet that desire for 100% is likely one of the biggest obstacles to getting to even 95%. But I'm fairly confident that if a person truly let herself binge every 21 days (which is about 16 days a year) while following No S or some similar plan, she would end that year eating a lot less food overall than she had without it. But that is not inspiring to people. They want to be THIN by the end of that year and they just want to know what to eat to get there. Yet that has failed and failed and failed to work.

Are there people who just get so sick and tired of not meeting the cultural ideal that they surrender and count calories or whatever? Yes, there are. About 3% or probably fewer, as some of the 3% of successful maintainers do it for health, not looks. In the meantime, I'm happy I found something less punishing (though when you finally surrender, it's not really punishment).

Then again, isn't there something in my life that I feel the same way about? Something that can make me feel as desperate as I once did? Yes, it's my messiness and procrastination. I can joke about it sometimes, but there are other moments that I feel just as intensely about it and myself as I once did about eating and my body. I'm repeating myself here, but I need reminders.

And need to stop avoiding other work this minute.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:19 pm

Long response to the thread about Mom calling herself fat.

I read Susie Orbach years ago and The Beauty Myth relatively recently,and many similar views in between. It is a very difficult issue, as Naomi Wolf points out: it means changing how we see, and there is a huge media industry that shapes that vision, equating beauty with approval and even morality. Actually, those writers would insist there a political industry as well pushing ti, but I don't use that one for personal use. And many complications in between.

This is why I've always questioned, to myself and others, why anyone should feel guilt and self-disgust for overeating. Legitimate uncomfortable feelings from the overeating get too entangled with the feelings of self-abnegation. Not only painful, but what a friend of mine would call needless and unproductive suffering. Even for the sake of supporting health, self-hatred for the offending behavior is hardly ever effective in making changes. Fear can work then, but that is different from hating yourself for being such a bad girl- or boy.

It is hard, too, because it can be used as an excuse for self-defeating behavior, as I know some of my overeating was a rebellion against bowing to a cultural ideal that was literally impossible to achieve for most, as well as to "being good," though I desperately wanted to be approved of for not being good, too! So much drama!

I found that No S helped me negotiate some of the complications. Being overweight wasn't the only, or eventually the main, reason for my being frustrated with my eating. I felt too full too much of the time and it just really bothered me that so much of my eating was not responding to authenticate hunger. I just didn't like that I would spend the rest of my life in food's clutches.

Now that I feel that I'm not most of the time, honestly, I still have to fight the opinion it's so easy to have that I'm still not thin enough. That certainly doesn't come from any individual in my life right now, but from the cultural push for women to fashion themselves for the greater public opinion, and the greater public opinion is an almost unqualified approval for thinness. I counsel myself and others to reject the urge to look for the approval of strangers with appearance. But it hasn't been as easy to change as eating sanely, and that is saying a lot. And all cultures have appearances that they delight in. So, I do accept the compliments I get for my weight loss over the years, but I consider them an amusing false idol. Nice side effect, but not where the real treasure lies.

Releasing myself from the burden of the cultural ideal actually made it easier to accept responsibility for what I do and do not eat. No one is really in charge of that except me. And in the end, no one is in charge of my approval except me, too. Life gives me LOTS of opportunities to learn that one that have nothing to do with thinness.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:50 am

Didn't do too bad on my weekend away, starting with Thursday. Not perfection but I'm still pleased.

Did plenty of walking on Sunday but almost none on the drive home on Monday. Took ten hours to drive home. Wasn't hungry but still ate late at night. It had actually been a stressful weekend mixed in with fun. Guess my willpower was worn down, yet I was very aware that I could have chosen not to.

I got my 14 minutes of resistance in! Did it while watching snippets of Extreme Weight Loss TV show.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:57 pm

Still mulling over number of meal options. Why? because it's become harder to eat a satisfying amount and yet be hungry for my next meal. I'm reluctant to let go of having a lunch routine because of social reasons. When I'm working, it's often my only meal with others, and a reason on weekends to socialize and revel in nice food. I love that! But it's not set in stone for me. I know No S is valuable because of the routine of habit, but I may experiment with a mod two days a week, on Mondays and Thursdays. But that could complicate things too much.

Another option is to have a meal of mostly freggies when it's mealtime and I'm not very hungry. I find I really want to chew! (I can go 7 or 8 hours sometimes with little stress, but not others.) I get the satisfaction of chewing, I enjoy the food, and it's light enough that I'm usually back to being hungry for that next meal. I have used this option at lunch or dinner. I just don't know if it's better to make it a routine or allow myself to adjust it to hunger. Slim cultures don't use hunger as much as they do meals.

I'm still not someone who can stop with a few bites of a meal left on the plate, as I note others doing sometimes, but I let myself off the hook because Reinhard says he can't, either!

snapdragon · Post by **snapdragon** » Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:04 pm

I like option number 2 myself. I wonder if you are worrying too much about this.

Everyday Systems

oolala53

Hey

I am sorry