Everyday Systems

Posted: **Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:43 am**

I have this book, Artisan Bread in 5 Minutes a Day requested from Inter-library Loan The basic recipe is thus:

Basic crusty bread recipe from â€œArtisan Bread in Five Minutes a Day,â€ by Jeff Hertzberg and ZoÃ« FranÃ§ois (Thomas Dunne Books, 2007)

1 1/2 tablespoons yeast

1 1/2 tablespoons kosher salt

6 1/2 cups unbleached, all-purpose flour, more for dusting dough

Cornmeal

1. In a large bowl or plastic container, mix yeast and salt into 3 cups lukewarm water (about 100 degrees). Stir in flour, mixing until there are no dry patches. Dough will be quite loose/wet. Cover, but not with an airtight lid. Let dough rise at room temperature 2 hours (or up to 5 hours).

2. Bake at this point or refrigerate, covered, for as long as two weeks. When ready to bake, sprinkle a little flour on dough and cut off a grapefruit-size piece with serrated knife. Turn dough in hands to lightly stretch surface, creating a rounded top and a lumpy bottom. Put dough on pizza peel sprinkled with cornmeal; let rest 40 minutes. Repeat with remaining dough or refrigerate it.

3. Place broiler pan on bottom of oven. Place baking stone on middle rack and turn oven to 450 degrees; heat stone at that temperature for 20 minutes.

4. Dust dough with flour, slash top with serrated or very sharp knife three times. Slide onto stone. Pour one cup hot water into broiler pan and shut oven quickly to trap steam. Bake until well browned, about 30 minutes. Cool completely. (it will crackle while it's cooling, which is pretty neat)

If you like crusty-outside, extremely tender inside "artisan" bread, OMG this is so good. The loaves are pretty small, though I was able to double the size of the loaf (getting two out of the initial mix rather than four). But it's so easy, I've pretty much just been baking a loaf of fresh dough a day, and it's really no extra work. Though you can bake it the same day as you make the dough, I agree with the authors that it does best after at least 24 hours in the fridge, I think because it's so much easier to handle when cold.

Here's a video of the authors demonstrating/talking about the recipe. (http://www.startribune.com/video/11967361.html)

Simple Living Board Retrieved Aug 19, 2009

Folks on the SL board say that you can even bake the bread in a covered Corelle dish. I'm faint with anticipation. I've never had much success with yeast breads and now it appears that I may indeed be able to make my own bread.

Posted: **Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:49 pm**

The Mark Bittman no-knead bread that was sweeping the Internet a while back is pretty similar, I think, and people raved about that. Let us know how your bread turns out! I might have to try it myself.

Posted: **Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:02 pm**

So, Blithe, how did it go?

I bought the book, but haven't had chance to try the recipes yet. And I do think the title is a bit misleading. (Rising time is real time when you work outside the home.)

Posted: **Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:46 am**

Haven't done it yet. I'm going to mix up the dough Friday night and bake on Saturday. I will use another version which recommends an even longer rising time.

I promise to report. If it comes out good, I'll even post pictures.

Posted: **Sat Aug 22, 2009 6:56 pm**

I decided to use the recipe above instead of the longer rising time one I found in the NYTimes.

The dough is rising. The bit I snitched tasted a little on the salty side which is a complaint I heard about this recipe. I think it will still be edible though.

Posted: **Sun Aug 23, 2009 12:49 am**

It came about pretty good. I used a CorningWare dish with a lid which means you can forego the whole water in a broiler and baking stone thing since the CorningWare traps the steam and gives that crunchy crust.

However. I didn't grease the CorningWare dish (silly, silly mistake) and the bread did stick. And the bread was a wee bit salty.

BUT, it was good. Really good. The bread and a little bit of spaghetti sauce was all I had for dinner. My 15 year old son ate it too. I think I can work out the kinks and really get good at this, something I've never felt before about a yeast dough.

Posted: **Fri Sep 04, 2009 12:37 pm**

I'm getting better. The bread no longer sticks to the CorningWare (use butter to grease the dish AND coat liberally with corn meal). I also use half the dough to make a loaf instead of a quarter.

This was last night's result.

Posted: **Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:42 pm**

Wow, that looks gorgeous!

I am going to have to try this...

Posted: **Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:12 am**

I just got this book and would love to hear how the bread that you store in the frig and made daily (?) for two weeks or so tastes. Did the flavor change as the dough aged? Did it really work as the book said it would? Your loaf looks lovely!! Any Advice??

Posted: **Thu Sep 17, 2009 4:06 pm**

Grammy, it tastes very good. It gets a little more "sour doughish" as it ages but not it's not bad. I wish I could make a daily loaf of bread out of the recipe but it's not nearly enough. The recipe makes 4 smallish loaves or 2 big ones.

I do the recipe as written. When preparing to bake, I don't always let the dough set for a full hour (40 minutes was a mistake in the book according to an errata sheet). I've let it set as little as 30 minutes and it comes out fine.

When it comes to baking, I don't muck about with pizza peels, broiler pans with water or baking stones. Rather, I grease and corn meal a CorningWare 2.5 quart dish with lid and bake in that for 30 minutes with the lid on. (I let the dough set in that for the prebaking rise time). Then I bake about 10 minutes with the lid off to give it a crispy crust. The lid on/lid off thing in theory replicates a crust you get by baking in a steam oven.

Posted: **Fri Sep 18, 2009 11:30 pm**

Before I begin this adventure, can you tell me what you use for a container in the frig? I'm having a problem finding something large enough. Do you just not put a tight lid on so it isn't airtight? Am I making this more complicated than it needs to be? (the story of my life!!) Thanks for your help! I'm so glad to find your blog on this topic!!

Posted: **Sat Sep 19, 2009 2:47 am**

I store it in a big bowl, maybe 12 cups? I've covered it with 1)plastic wrap, 2) a dish towel and 3) a plastic plate. The dish towel let it dry out too much. The plastic plate (one of those picnic ones) worked ok but it wasn't a snug fit. The plastic wrap worked best so far.

Despite the faults with the covers, this recipe is very forgiving. My first attempt came out ok, not great, but better than anything I've ever made before so I was willing to try again. The second time came out very good and so have the last two loaves I made.

Posted: **Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:53 am**

OK Blithe Morning, I got the dough mixed and into the frig..just a day later than my plan! (That's pretty good) I will be baking tomorrow!! WooWoo!! I will let you know the results. Thanks for your help!!

Posted: **Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:31 am**

I made a loaf of bread this afternoon and we ate it at dinner. It was a little underdone (I forgot to 'slash" the top of the loaf before i put it in the oven and I thnk I let too much of the steam out... and heat too ..when I opened the oven door to do my slashing.) I read a section in the book that stated you can bake the bread about 90% done and cool it and then reheat it for 5-10 minutes which will complete the cooking so that is what I did. Seems to have worked. also, I reduced the salt a little too much. I am going to try again on Wednesday. Thanks for your help!

Posted: **Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:23 pm**

Grammy, it took me about three tries to get it right. The first attempts weren't bad but each time it got better. I've come to realize that a learning curve is normal and necessary.

Posted: **Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:55 pm**

You are so right, this second batch is better than the first! I am going to try the corning ware with my next batch..I can't find my broiler pan--never use it--and have been putting water into a lasagna pan instead. I looked at your bread again..beautiful! We just had batch two with soup for dinner..on a chilly evening. What could be better???

Please pass on any discoveries you make..I will be using butter and cornmeal in my corning ware because of you!

Posted: **Sun Sep 27, 2009 3:51 pm**

Blithe Morning wrote:Grammy, it took me about three tries to get it right. The first attempts weren't bad but each time it got better. I've come to realize that a learning curve is normal and necessary.

Hmm...practice makes perfect?

Posted: **Thu Oct 01, 2009 1:04 am**

So you don't knead the bread? And does the oven temperature remain at 450 F?

I bake bread all the time, but never at such a high heat. And I never tried it in a Corelle (or Pyrex) dish. Something new to consider!

Posted: **Thu Oct 01, 2009 1:34 am**

No kneading required! You let the yeast do all the work.

The Corelle Ware is to simulate the steam oven. The temp stays at 450Â° the whole time.

Posted: **Thu Oct 08, 2009 3:18 am**

FYI: My friend made the pizza crust from the book and said it was wonderful!
So good, in fact, she made it again two nights later!
Anyone make the pita???

Posted: **Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:08 pm**

I've yet to buy this book and try the bread. I'm also interested in this one:

My Bread: The Revolutionary No-Work, No-Knead Method by Jim Lahey. His recipe, which Mark Bittman wrote about in the New York Times and Jeffrey Steingarten wrote about in the May, 2007 issue of Vogue, is the one that probably started it all.

Posted: **Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:56 pm**

The best advice I've ever seen on making bread at home was in Elizabeth David's book, where she says something along the lines of "you should make the bread fit your schedule, not the other way around", and this looks like a nifty way of doing that.

Do you heat the dish in the oven before dropping the bread dough in? I frequently bake that way, and it doesn't seem to stick.

Posted: **Sun Nov 22, 2009 1:20 pm**

skaldmaer wrote:The best advice I've ever seen on making bread at home was in Elizabeth David's book, where she says something along the lines of "you should make the bread fit your schedule, not the other way around", and this looks like a nifty way of doing that.

Do you heat the dish in the oven before dropping the bread dough in? I frequently bake that way, and it doesn't seem to stick.

I like that quote!

Re: heating the dish, no I don't, though I think you are supposed to. I find if I grease and sprinkle enough corn meal, it doesn't stick.

Posted: **Wed Dec 02, 2009 3:31 am**

So tonight, I actually used a pizza stone. Since I don't have a pizza peel, getting the bread in and out of the oven was a challenge.

I think I will stick to using a dish of some sort, maybe even a loaf pan. The bread was blobbish.

Posted: **Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:44 am**

Blithe Morning wrote:So tonight, I actually used a pizza stone. Since I don't have a pizza peel, getting the bread in and out of the oven was a challenge.

I think I will stick to using a dish of some sort, maybe even a loaf pan. The bread was blobbish.

I'm so glad you said this! I was beginning to wonder if I was ever going to master yeast bread! I don't have a pizza peel, so I've been letting my dough rise on a cookie sheet sprinkled with corn meal. Then I "attempt" to transfer it onto my stone that has been preheating in the oven per the instructions. I have to scrape it off the sheet with a metal spatula and I end up with a gooey blob of dough that is completely formless. I'm lucky if my loaf is 2 inches high after it's done...that being said, it tastes great! My kids love it and told me to not stop tying to get it right! Maybe I'll try the dish idea...

Posted: **Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:34 pm**

I have the book, and I like it. It's got a lot of good ideas in it, and it's not just one recipe. I used a plastic shoe box I got at Target for 99 cents, and I've written my go to recipe on the top of the box.

It's been a while since I made this style of bread. I had decided it was easier to bake 3 loaves at once and freeze two. But, I can't remember why exactly.

Posted: **Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:29 pm**

I've got the week off work, and one of the things I've been planning to do with it is try this bread. I have a great bread recipe that I normally use - but I never seem to be able to fit it in my schedule. I"m hoping this solves that problem

My first batch is mixed and rising. I'm glad to have all these tips here to help me along

Posted: **Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:19 pm**

I bought some dark rye flour. I got a Kitchenaid stand mixer with a dough hook for Christmas so I decided to try some of the heavier flours. In a recent edition of Mother Earth there was an article with recipes for different types of flour.

Posted: **Sun Jan 03, 2010 1:43 pm**

I finally tried this over the holidays, and the family went WILD for it.

Used the pizza stone/peel method. First loaf was barely two inches high, but tasted great. Last loaf (days later) was more the shape I expected. (I'm intrigued by the Corningware method - looks a lot easier - but mine is very old and I don't think it goes to 450F. Just a vague memory of limitations, but I'm afraid to try it.)

Still got to work on it - but I think this will be a staple from now on.

There's a new book out by the same authors on "healthy" artisan bread - I assume using more whole-grain flours. I may have to put that on my wish list!

Posted: **Sun Jan 03, 2010 7:22 pm**

KCCC, the January issue of Mother Earth has some of the Healthy Recipes. The one I was looking at yesterday featured Bob's Red Mill 10 grain flour. I might mix that one up today and try it later in the week.

Posted: **Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:00 am**

KCCC mentioned on of my questions-could one substitute some of the flour with whole grain flour and put some healthy seeds and nuts in the dough to give it more fiber and make it more filling?

Posted: **Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:54 am**

The original book has some recipes that include some whole-grain flours, but are still mostly white.

I saw the issue of Mother Earth that Blithe mentioned, but couldn't bring myself to pay $5 for it at the newstand... I'll put that toward the book instead! From my brief glance, breads made totally with whole flours require the addition of gluten in order to rise well enough in this method.

For right now, this bread is so delicious that I'm willing to overlook that it's based on white flour. (And I LOVE the simplicity of the ingredients - just plain flour, yeast, water, salt... but it tastes divine.)

Blithe, thanks for leading the way on this!

Posted: **Fri Jan 08, 2010 3:59 am**

Blythe...i wanted you to know that I used the book..a pizza stone..and a container of the dough as holiday presents! That way the newbie had the first stage done and still had days to spare before having to bake the bread. As far as I know, everyone had a successful experience with the bread. Thanks for all the tips when I was getting started!

Posted: **Fri Jan 08, 2010 5:06 pm**

KCCC wrote:The original book has some recipes that include some whole-grain flours, but are still mostly white.

I saw the issue of Mother Earth that Blithe mentioned, but couldn't bring myself to pay $5 for it at the newstand... I'll put that toward the book instead! From my brief glance, breads made totally with whole flours require the addition of gluten in order to rise well enough in this method.

For right now, this bread is so delicious that I'm willing to overlook that it's based on white flour. (And I LOVE the simplicity of the ingredients - just plain flour, yeast, water, salt... but it tastes divine.)

Blithe, thanks for leading the way on this!

KCCC -- it's online

Posted: **Sat Jan 09, 2010 12:36 pm**

I made the bread for the first time yesterday. It was a little flat, but I think it's because the dough wasn't chilled. I just got bread #2 out of the oven now and it was much taller. More like a regular bread.

I modified the recipe somewhat. I used 2 cups of whole wheat flour and 4 1/2 cups white flour. I only used 2 tsp. salt and put 1 tbs. sugar in the yeast water. I also added 1 1/2 cups whole grains. It was SCRUMPTIOS!
DH LOVED it!!!

I will definately make this bread again. It turns out much nicer after a day in the fridge, I'll have to remember that.

Posted: **Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:42 pm**

wosnes wrote:
KCCC -- it's online

Wosnes!! Thank you, thank you, thank you!

Bookmarking now to try this week.

Posted: **Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:28 pm**

I got this book for Christmas and I have to say I am LOVING the bread I am making. I used to bake all the bread for our family but then I had to go back to work and got too busy. I used to be able to make a really great duplication of the "Roggenbrot" (Rye bread) I used to have in Germany but I lost the recipe. THis book has a recipe I am modifying a bit each time I make it and it is getting VERY close to the recipe I'm looking for.

But the thing I love most is having dough available whenever I want to have bread. Then when I make the bread, it's just enough for a day or two and I make more. It's quick, easy and convenient. My only criticism is that the recipe I used initially (the peasant loaf) was way too salty but I cut it back slightly and it is now perfect

Posted: **Fri Feb 12, 2010 11:23 pm**

I've been using this method to bake all of our bread for several weeks now. I've tweaked it a bit here and there to suit me and probably will continue to do so for a while yet, but for the most part, I"m very happy with it

Posted: **Wed May 26, 2010 4:05 pm**

I still haven't tried this bread or the Jim Lahey/Mark Bittman version from the New York Times. I found this version which seems even simpler to me: No-Knead Crusty White Bread. Lahey has also written a book.

Posted: **Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:42 pm**

All I have to say is WOW WOW WOW! My bread turned out soooo good! I have always wanted to master making bread, but the few times I tried it was never more than okay. Astounding that all that time I spent kneading and rising and stressing needn't be done - it's like magic

Will see how it is the next day. But warm, oh so yummy. Definitely a keeper. Maybe I can finally say "I make good bread".

Posted: **Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:56 pm**

I wonder if this dough could be used for pizza, buns etc....I don't see why not. Anyone ever try it for other uses like that?

Posted: **Tue Jan 18, 2011 1:46 pm**

I made this bread again today with a few modifications.

I substituted 1 1/2 cups flour with cracked rye.
I added 4 tbs. of a blend of red, black and white quinoa.
I threw 4 tbs of assorted seeds in the dough.

It was yummy and VERY filling!

Posted: **Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:31 am**

Just a footnote: I had to stop Hubby from eating the whole bread! I have to bake another today and make some more dough.

Posted: **Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:45 am**

My wife got this book for her birthday last year and we both love it. It's very surprising to me how the same dough prepared different ways tastes so different.

Here's the biggest benefit from my viewpoint - I can make it. I bake about as well as I golf (which means, if you golf with me stand wayyyy back, behind some trees). But I can make flat bread like nobody's business. Takes about as long as the veggies and meat portions and is like cooking potatoes or pasta. Mmmmmm.

We've already got a good pizza dough but used flatbread to pseudo pizza - it tasted more like focaccia - very different. I've been experimenting with meal on a "plate" dishes - greens, sliced chicken or something, some spices, a little cheese on top. The kids even enjoy them and it's a marginal increase in work.

If you don't have it (just a suggestion) and it's not at your local library - Interlibrary loan it!! Ask at your local library about this great offering.

Posted: **Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:27 am**

Wow - I'm so pleased to have found this thread. I'm definitely going to try baking my own bread. Can't wait to try it.

Posted: **Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:51 pm**

I'm enjoying the two I make (not this artisan bread). While they do require some kneading, they're not at all difficult. Hey, I'm making it, so it can't be too difficult!

There's a thread over at Serious Eats about Bittman and the now-retired Minimalist column. A number of people said that they thought the No-Knead bread was tasteless.

Posted: **Fri Feb 04, 2011 12:17 pm**

I'm going to try this version this weekend. I like the blog pictures.

Posted: **Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:19 pm**

wosnes wrote: I found this version which seems even simpler to me: No-Knead Crusty White Bread.

This past weekend, I used the King Arthur recipe but used bread flour instead of all purpose. I also let the 2nd rise go for a full hour. Probably the best loaf I've made to date.

Posted: **Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:50 pm**

I may have to get this book now that NO S has taken away my fear of eating bread.