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oolala53
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 8165
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've let myself go cuckoo eating this week and darn if I haven't found that it actually has helped to overeat in response to stress. But today is the final day I will have a glut of meetings that I feel wrenched over prepping for. BTW I'm STILL waiting for information from two colleagues that I need information for for a meeting TODAY, information that I have asked for three times. I finally, now that I'm in my last full time semester, had a sense of oh, well, I guess this isn't the end of the world. Though that particular parent had an advocate at the last meeting.

So back to sanity today. I don't imagine it will necessarily go easy as the body has gotten used to frequent eating and overages. But there's no good reason to continue.
_________________
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 64
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but harder to maintain)
Dec/17 23.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 8165
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

P.S. I take a med that helps for sleep. Last night, I was disappointed when I woke around 3 and knew I wasn't going to be able to get back to sleep. I got online until I decided to wash my hair. How could the med work for so few hours? Then when I later went in the kitchen, I saw the two tabs sitting out waiting for me to take them. So instead of being miffed that I didn't get more sleep, I was really glad for the sleep I was able to get without them!
_________________
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 64
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but harder to maintain)
Dec/17 23.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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gingerpie



Joined: 06 Apr 2014
Posts: 885
Location: Pennsylvania, US

PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I've let myself go cuckoo eating this week and darn if I haven't found that it actually has helped to overeat in response to stress


My son recently went off to college and found himself eating a lot of food he normally wouldn't consider eating (he's a vegetarian runner and very aware of how food effects his performance) Not sure how but he came across a youtube video explaining why stress eating works. It went into brain chemicals etc The long and short of it is: There are good reasons and part of our genetic make up. I agree though, the hard part is stopping once the stressful situation passes.

Hope your last stressful day goes well even without the required input from co-workers.
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Larkspur



Joined: 06 Mar 2017
Posts: 275
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oohlala, I have been taking melatonin for a few months because hot flashes (oh joy!) wake me up frequently. I feel ya.
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lpearlmom



Joined: 02 Aug 2013
Posts: 3409
Location: Arizona

PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh dear--I woulda been relieved too to see those pills! Sorry about all the stress eating but sounds like it was planned and expected. Back to N(ormal) days come Monday I take it?
_________________
"Every weakness contains within itself a Strength."
Shūsaku Endō

3/14-210 lbs; 3/15- 202 lbs; 1/16- 172 lbs; 9/17-177 lbs; 11/10- 167.8 lbs

Current weight: 165.4 lbs






Instagram "lpearlmom"
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 8165
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Linda. Back to it yesterday. The worst is over and I have no good excuse anymore, if work stress was a good excuse in the first place. Conveniently, I didn't really want the foods I had been "using." I did stop at Costco for yogurt and had a couple of samples. (There weren't many; I was a little surprised because I thought the closer it gets to the weekend, the more samples there are. Just as well for me...) Then I had a nice starchy dinner (with corn and couscous). Ahhhh.
_________________
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 64
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but harder to maintain)
Dec/17 23.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 8165
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My eating week is about as good as my last couple of days, which have been good. I don't think I did anything egregious before that, but I don't feel the solidity I used to when I rarely questioned whether I was going to be green. I did stop at Costco again for tastes. I've decided that's an acceptable mod for now. I wandered quite a bit, left with nothing-yay, me- and ended up topping my total steps to nearly 12,000 spread throughout the day. Had a potato fest dinner: yukon gold, red, and sweet.

I got a small shock before work this morning. I had put my hair up and was looking at the back in the mirror, the hand-held one at a different angle than usual and I saw two balding spots right where a receding hairline would be except they were about an inch back, so not visible looking in the mirror straight on. But taller people have probably been seeing them for a long time! Is this because of my job or just kismet? OK gray hair I expect, wrinkles I expect, but I have always had very thick hair. Why can't it just thin out all over? that's prolly what men say, too.

I have been sleeping terribly even with meds. At least tonight/tomorrow I can drift back to sleep in the morning if I have to. It is amazing how good I can feel after a night of split sleep, as long as I get that second stint.
_________________
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 64
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but harder to maintain)
Dec/17 23.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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gingerpie



Joined: 06 Apr 2014
Posts: 885
Location: Pennsylvania, US

PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Funny how we can feel so "solid" for a long time then something comes along (or seemingly nothing) and we're back on shakey ground. I've heard recovering alcoholics talk about this. Apparently, you're never free from the possibility the old urges will resurface it's just that the longer you can resist acting on them the less pull they have. Congratulations with your Costco success. I never enter because I'll walk out with $200 worth of things I don't need.

Man! The hair thing is a surprise! I know you keep yours long and are a bit proud of it. Perhaps a trip to the Dr. Is in order. It could be stress or it could (perhaps) be a side effect of your meds. My one and only vanity is my hair. Like you, I can accept grey but loss would make me cry.

Hope your weekend goes smoothly.
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 8165
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TX, gp. I think I have a follow-up appt. tomorrow with doctor. Will ask about hair thing. but I suspect it's age and keeping it pulled back.

I've never really been immune to urges. Have kept my sweet tooth, but dealing with it isn't usually torture, though recently, I've gotten exasperated with the whole thing. A senior English class I coteach in is reading Fast Food Nation and it's a little embittering to see how much big business gets to call the shots and the public is fooled. But I think someone else posted perhaps on the general discussion board how it's actually frightening how much of our economy is built on the fast food/snack food/convenience food industries. If all the public bought like I do, a lot of jobs would be lost.

I found a simple hutch for 35 bucks at a semi-estate sale yesterday to replace a now dilapidated piece I bought used in 1983 for 40 bucks! I spent most of the day moving stuff around and of course there's still a big mess. I have papers to grade. I think I'm feeling sick enough ( Rolling Eyes ) to use one of the 90 days I've racked up since 1999. (That's nearly a whole semester!)
_________________
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 64
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but harder to maintain)
Dec/17 23.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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lpearlmom



Joined: 02 Aug 2013
Posts: 3409
Location: Arizona

PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ugh, sorry about the hair! Getting older is certainly challenging. :/

I really admire your thriftiness! We have these fairly new end tables in our living room from pottery barn and that decorator lady told me I needed to "upgrade" these. I was like geeesh, it's not like they're from ikea or target or something. They were pretty costly and I think they're nice.

She also told me to only put hardback books in our bookcases (where am I suppose to store the soft ones?). Oh and our pillows are too big for our couch apparently and I'm suppose to move my bookcases to a different location. Moving them is no small feat so I may be in your position soon with my house in disarray but of course no papers to grade.

Btw, super impressed with the 90 days of sick days you have left. I say take one!

GL,Linda
_________________
"Every weakness contains within itself a Strength."
Shūsaku Endō

3/14-210 lbs; 3/15- 202 lbs; 1/16- 172 lbs; 9/17-177 lbs; 11/10- 167.8 lbs

Current weight: 165.4 lbs






Instagram "lpearlmom"
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gingerpie



Joined: 06 Apr 2014
Posts: 885
Location: Pennsylvania, US

PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oolala, I'm about to steal your thread for a quick minute. Hope you don't mind

Linda said, .
Quote:
I was like geeesh, it's not like they're from ikea or target or something. They were pretty costly and I think they're nice.

If you like them, keep them. She only makes money by convincing you that her taste is better than yours.

oolala back to you Smile I still have a bit of a sweet tooth after 4 or 5 years of more or less sugar free. I think that craving sweets is pretty human, it's the constant access that we have to pure, refined (and quite frankly, tastey) sugar that gets us into trouble.

Hope all goes well with the Doctor. I think I might have your sick days beat. I have 47 built up since January of 2013. I don't take a lot of days Rolling Eyes
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Larkspur



Joined: 06 Mar 2017
Posts: 275
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Re the hardback books-- foo. I am guilty of wanting things to Look Nice, but an interesting home with actual people and not androids in it functions and reflects who they are. So Books, because you read.

I guess you can always move the softcovers back after she's done <G>.

I decorate in New Hampshire Grandma (not from New England, or a grandma, though I think I qualify as vintage.) Rag rugs and quilts and an orange tabby who arranges himself artistically. Lots of dog eared books, many of them paperback.

Oolala, hope you feel better! Give employment to a sub and take some time to rest up Smile
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ironchef



Joined: 30 Jul 2012
Posts: 1594
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only hard cover books? Wow, our house would be overflowing with soft cover book boxes if they weren't in the book cases!

oolala, as my boss says, they are sick days, but they are also "personal days" - time to use a few!!
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 8165
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I took one! But still didn't get all the grading done. Oh, well. staying up late. I've got only 34 days left this semester. I can afford a few more of burning the midnight oil.
_________________
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 64
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but harder to maintain)
Dec/17 23.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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gingerpie



Joined: 06 Apr 2014
Posts: 885
Location: Pennsylvania, US

PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I can afford a few more of burning the midnight oil.

You could also afford another sick/personal day Wink
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 8165
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not this week. I will just pay for it later. I need contact personally with students for what I have to do. At least my job can't be outsourced...yet.
_________________
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 64
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but harder to maintain)
Dec/17 23.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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Merry



Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Posts: 1528

PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 6:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you get to get paid for all those days you don't use when you retire, or do you just lose them?
_________________
Homeschool Mom and No S returnee as of 11-30-15.

28.5 lbs. down, 34.5 to go. Slow and steady wins the race.

"...slim cultures...value not overeating. They don't eat more of a food just because it's good. They enjoy the food more."--Oolala
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 8165
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those unused days boost my monthly retirement, or for sure, I'd be leaving a semester early. I would not take them piecemeal. Too fragmenting for me. I feel discombobulated being gone and coming back, and leaving plans for a substitute teacher are so time consuming when you're dealing with kids who need so much guidance. Not that I don't think there aren't some good materials out there somewhere that would be appropriate for them, but I can search for hours and still not come up with anything that isn't mostly a compromise.

Boy, am I tired of that dilemma. I wish I were leaving feeling I had conquered it, but with 29 days left this semester, I have to accept it's not going to happen.

I went to dinner Friday night with a man I used to have a terrific crush on and his late 20's son and a girlfriend of his. I think I haven't seen that much booze drunk in a year, but I don't get out much. We stopped in to his son's penthouse apartment that he shares with a high school friend, both of them in high-end real estate. It was stunning. I could kind of see the logic of it. He could pay a few hundred dollars a month less for a modest one-bedroom in a less posh part of town, or have a more-than-million dollar view where he is. I was never in a position to think about those options, or may I was and didn't know it?

I failed at dinner, but it felt okay, even thought I had not declared ahead of time that I would take an S day. I was glad that I had pretty much held out for that dinner, eaten much later than I would normally eat, when I had been failing between lunch and dinner so much later.

But I'm also glad I don't eat out that much.

And I'm experiencing something that's disturbing to me but that feels like it would take a fair amount of mental gymnastics to counteract. I notice how many heavy people there are in a way that I actually didn't used to. It's possible there are more of them, but California is the top ten of the least obese states at about 24% obese, yet at least when I'm out, it looks like we match the national stats of about 33% overweight and 33% obese. I find myself being judgmental. But I think what really bothers me underneath that is that it is an area I wish I had more allies in, and it's obvious that my values clash, just as I feel a lot my values clash with those around me. I feel I've put a lot of effort into trying to find my real life tribe, and it hasn't happened in the way I've wished for. I also grapple with how to stay on my own foundation while letting others stay on theirs, especially when I interpret theirs to be sandstone. But if mine were granite, I wouldn't be threatened by theirs at all.

I do have to say that of the people I actually do fraternize with, few are on the side of overdoing food. They're more likely to be the food-type limiters, which I can get annoyed by, too. You just can't please me!

My old crush was heavy when I met him, but I found him very attractive and pretty much still do, but also feel myself judging because he's gone vegetarian and sometimes vegan yet weighs more now than when I met him 10 years ago. And he's a doctor! Yeah, I know that is a common paradox. I know he knows down deep that he is a compulsive eater and his limitation tactics are not working to correct that, though they may not have been chosen for that purpose. And it's not like it's a crime. I know I'm clinging to habits that aren't bringing me a lot of happiness but that I still find intractable. How can I scorn anyone else for not winning a difficult battle, one that demands going against habits of mind and body?

I get tired of the mental battles, but even that doesn't stop them. The guidelines are much clearer for just not eating at certain times!
_________________
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 64
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but harder to maintain)
Dec/17 23.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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Larkspur



Joined: 06 Mar 2017
Posts: 275
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So is this old crush single--?
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 8165
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, and totally not romantically interested in me. And yes, he has said it outright in as kind a way as possible years ago,, so I'm not guessing. He recognized that I was good people, and thought maybe the spark could be there, but it just wasn't for him. But at my age, with my lack of success at increasing my social circle over the years, coupled with the fact that he can be a fun person who adequately liked my company, I saw no reason to cut off developing the friendship at the level it was. It's mostly a moot point now as he lives outside of Salt Lake City and I'm in San Diego. We don't have the kind of friendship where we call each other up and talk about our ups and downs. He doesn't do that much with anyone, as far as I can tell, nor feel the need to. I've come to accept that most relationships, even with women, are mostly personable without being personal. It's not a reason to reject them. Far from it, especially if family isn't close geographically or in shared values. If people treat us decently, there's benefit in keeping the doors open.

BTW, he thought back then that falling in love was something that would never happen to him. Then he met a woman he completely fell for at their very first meeting. When she decided after a few months that it wasn't mutual, he accepted with aplomb, but I knew it really hurt. Later he confided that it left him wondering how he should proceed. He had some desire to date, but did he even though he didn't feel those feelings, now that he knew they were possible? He's certainly fun enough and considered a good catch enough that he has always been able to have dating partners. But he doesn't offer any information on those fronts now. He would likely tell me in conversation if he met someone really important, but he wouldn't tell me about any casual dating. He doesn't even ask questions about much personal stuff of his own family, saying that they'll tell him if they want. I have a feeling that a fair number of men are like that. We hadn't even been in touch for a few years until I made an overture when I knew I'd be in SLC for my grand niece's wedding. That was partly because I was in such a down state and we didn't have the kind of relationship to share that. If we meet again, it will be tangential to other situations, which is fine. It's hardly on my radar now.

My, how I can go on!
_________________
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 64
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but harder to maintain)
Dec/17 23.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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lpearlmom



Joined: 02 Aug 2013
Posts: 3409
Location: Arizona

PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well glad you had a fun night out at least. Sorry you're finding yourself judging other ppl and not enjoying it. At least you're aware of it? It's probably no worse than me being happy that I'm not the fattest person in the room?


I like you're attitude about keeping the door open if ppl treat you well. I used to be so picky about my friends but I'm realizing there can be different levels of friendship. I do miss having a best friend though where you talk all the time and tell each other everything.
_________________
"Every weakness contains within itself a Strength."
Shūsaku Endō

3/14-210 lbs; 3/15- 202 lbs; 1/16- 172 lbs; 9/17-177 lbs; 11/10- 167.8 lbs

Current weight: 165.4 lbs






Instagram "lpearlmom"
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 8165
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Linda. And I know what you mean about best friends. My friend who moved 500+ miles away is someone I can talk to pretty well, but even when she was here, she never wanted to just hang out the way I would have liked to have. But there are people who might have wanted more from me.


Okay, another vent, though this isn't necessarily about myself. It's going to sound so obvious, as it's been pointed out for a few years at least, but i was just especially struck this week with the ubiquitousness of manufactured food. I went into a Target and saw in a way I hadn't in awhile all the stuff so easy to grab near the cash register. A person could go there to shop for something completely different and still have to fend off the urge to eat just paying for the item. But any attempt to limit the access to food or to limit the advertising of it, as if that's what the founding fathers meant to protect with free speech, is looked at as denying basic rights. I know it's tricky, but the situation is almost dumbfounding. Not to mention how much of the economy is tied up in the cooking and packaging of it all. Plus how much do we depend on the fast food industry for entry level jobs?

Nice way to start my day!
_________________
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 64
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but harder to maintain)
Dec/17 23.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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SpiritSong



Joined: 04 Nov 2010
Posts: 499

PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's hard to imagine our economy if everyone acted like we probably should. What if we all ate only non-processed food? What if no one went into debt to buy things (except a house, car, education, etc., but not consumer goods)? What if we did our own manual labor instead of hiring people and paying to join gyms?

Imagine the collapse of the fast food industry, the snack food industry, consumer good manufacturing, landscaping companies, etc. Shocked

It would be nice to put the diet industry out of business though. Those people can find something else to do once everyone is at a healthy weight. Laughing
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ironchef



Joined: 30 Jul 2012
Posts: 1594
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It’s amazing to me. It used to just be supermarkets that kept the junk at the checkout, but now it seems to be sneaking in everywhere. Can’t I buy some socks?
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 8165
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The message about consumerism has been around for decades- it was called conspicuous consumption in the 60's but isn't really recognized as conspicuous by the masses- but it has only risen in the ensuing time. Yet, one of my college friends who was very deep into environmental studies for decades remains optimistic because he feels we've barely scratched the surface on getting serious about recycling, etc.

Then again, we won't be around to see if it all turns out...
_________________
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 64
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but harder to maintain)
Dec/17 23.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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gingerpie



Joined: 06 Apr 2014
Posts: 885
Location: Pennsylvania, US

PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If you really think an item isn't worth it, you don't buy it. If you think a place isn't worth it to visit, you don't go there. Etc.

This is a quote of yours from Kathleen's thread. When laid out like this it seems so obvious. It, along with some thoughts of my own has really helped me put my thoughts in order this week. -thanks
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 8165
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Gingerpie. As Reinhard says, most of being able to implement No S depends on changing our thinking about our eating and our excuses.


I'll admit that when it comes to items to buy and places to visit, cost and lack of proximity may help make the decision, because the urges to buy or go don't usually keep coming back. However, there are too many examples of people who may have failed many times at changing their eating who finally decide it's just not worth the results anymore, whether it's a health condition, public ridicule even if it is unfair, finding unacceptable the lethargy of overeating an/or being "hooked," etc. They make changes they never could before, and don't let the frequent desire to deviate from their plan or small failures stop them.

Believing one is powerless over food has been shown to lead to more relapse than believing it is ultimately one's choice to eat or not to eat. Sure, it would be very hard to choose to starve oneself to death, but no one here is asking for that. FAR from it. Just starve from meal to meal. Wink

I don't mean to say there is anything wrong with a person admitting that overeating IS actually worth it, at least in the moment. It was integral for me. What I think is much more problematic is for us to keep telling ourselves that we're serious about something and are willing to implement a strategy when we aren't, when we show we aren't by repeating the pattern. I think this ultimately erodes our self-confidence. We may decide the strategy is just too painful, at least for time being, or may hold out for a strategy that seems more palatable, while still having an intense desire to change the behavior. No dishonor in that.
_________________
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 64
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but harder to maintain)
Dec/17 23.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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Larkspur



Joined: 06 Mar 2017
Posts: 275
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I agree with this-- the importance of keeping faith with yourself. Either decide it's not worth it (I have done that) or that it is worth it, conditionally (I've done that too.) But to keep trying and failing, ugh. Very hard on the psyche.
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ironchef



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just popping in to say thanks for your words of wisdom here, and on Kathleen's thread. Some things I needed to hear today.

Self respect, just like any respect, is earned. When I keep faith with myself and follow through on what I believe to be important, my self respect (what some people call self esteem) always increases.
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Merry



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oolala53 wrote:

Believing one is powerless over food has been shown to lead to more relapse than believing it is ultimately one's choice to eat or not to eat.


I do think this is so important for us to realize. We're not powerless over food. And we're not powerless over the coercive people in our lives--we can choose whether or not to eat no matter how much others urge us (sometimes if it's an infrequent situation, it may be easier just to eat than not to-but realizing that we are making that decision and are not "forced" into it is so important).
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28.5 lbs. down, 34.5 to go. Slow and steady wins the race.

"...slim cultures...value not overeating. They don't eat more of a food just because it's good. They enjoy the food more."--Oolala
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with David Burns of Feeling Good repute: self-esteem should be unconditional, but it's just about impossible to have self-confidence and self-respect without the right behaviors that build them. And we ultimately want them all.

Come to think of it, self-esteem takes the right behaviors, too, but those are usually habits of mind, namely compassion and forgiveness towards ourselves. Ones I could use a lot of practice with.
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Dec/17 23.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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clarinetgal



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What an interesting discussion! I can certainly relate to some of what has been shared! I feel better about myself when I consistently follow good behaviors, like those of No S.
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oolala53



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alert for anyone experimenting with fasting! You may not want to read this.

Well, I've been off the deep end. More dessert in a sitting than I had eaten in several weekends. And other stuff, but that's enough detail. My goodness. The urge can come over me and I don't even try to fight it. How I'm going to feel later, frighteningly, isn't much of a deterrent. Nor the health effects, which for awhile had been front and center, though they were all about "future self." They began to feel remote.

But I'm considering the idea that the brain is fighting back against the changes that came about when I went through several months of IF in two stints, one shaky, the other more solid, over the course of a year and a half. Not the short 5-day ones I've done, but the extended time of daily or every-other-day I did. I got consistently ten pounds below what my baseline had been for a few years. That hadn't been the intent, but it seemed like a nice side effect. The routine felt relatively easy. Secretly, I started thinking, wow, if I've gotten this low, maybe I could actually shoot for less, which I hadn't ever done while on No S. Maybe I could actually to get the weight at which my same age peers consider to be the weight at which they don't wish they could weigh less. (Turns out to be the weight of only 6% of the population, which about matches the % of ectomorphs, the naturally skinny model bodytype) I was also bothered by my bodyfat, which had gone up a couple percent in a year and was essentially 30%. (Back in my 30's, I had whittled it down from 28% to 19%. Then over time, I put on 50 lbs.) I couldn't accept that that is where it is supposed to be, (but given the conditions, I guess I'm wrong. Not worth dickering about. I'm okay with giving up on that one.)

Then the start of the new school year came and I gradually returned to a reduced version of my overeating before No S, and it's been escalating. At first I thought I could stop it by just abandoning IF for the semester and returning to Vanilla , but I kept failing even at that. Now I'm seven pounds up from what had been the consistent new low (for over a year) and my pants are starting to register it. I had felt I had leeway and would get back "into it," but instead I've gotten more into my old self.

And I'm not sure I can stop it soon.

I've been reading a book that is slowly convincing me that, though I do believe I can get my better habits back, I cannot sustain much of a lower weight nor lower bodyfat %age without a level of effort I'm not willing to commit to. I have to accept the body that comes from what is not much more of an effort with No S and some mods. I do believe when I have next semester off, I'll be able to tame the failures and do more consistent exercise, but it's very possible that that won't get me back to where I was six months ago, which was where I had been for over a year. I'm not sure I can consistently return to IF, though it is in the back of my mind. But it's reminding me of how I used to dream of being able to stick to a stricter diet and exercise routine, and have closer to that body, the one I had achieved with Herculean (for me) effort years ago. That it would somehow come from changes that didn't seem that drastic, and then I would be a REALLY admirable senior citizen, at least, if I couldn't be the slim ingenue I had wanted to be. Not really the way I want to live.

Oh, well. As the stats show, the odds against losing body fat and maintaining it are extremely low, and I am one to play the odds. The odds are very good that a traditional diet and movement routine are my best bet, as it's done very well for millions more than all the diets and orderly modern purposeful exercise programs have done in a 150 years. If whole populations haven't lived it, it's likely going to work for only a lucky few. They won't feel they're lucky. They'll feel like they've worked for it, and they have, but the facts show that there is still an amount of luck that their body doesn't drive them crazy staying there.

The author of the book does say so far that there are two things that can lower the weight setpoint: consistent exercise (it sounds rather more than I've been doing or have thought I could do consistently) and eating hardly any modern manufactured foods, including very little sugar. We'll see how close I get to that, but I'm not counting on anything. My high school weight, when I was about 15-20 lbs. heavier than the hot girls, and a higher bodyfat, that had stayed steady through all the terrible teenage eating that went on, the weight I was before I went on my first serious diet, might be it for my last decades on the planet. And that wouldn't be so terrible, though I have to admit, there is some disappointment. There is SUCH a strong value in this culture for weights low on the BMI scale and it is so much more visible than the qualities that really make a difference, but which couldn't be admired by strangers.

Oh, that strong strong human desire, especially for women, to be admired, to be "chosen," by strangers.

I've said before I've realized that underneath that cultural imposition has been an even greater desire to, as an old spiritual teacher called it, transcend all false securities. And the admiration of strangers for beauty is as false a security as they come, IMHO, no matter how good it looks or how content those who have it look. It might actually be for them, but it just is not working out to be my path, and cannot possibly be for the masses unless they are somehow able to rise up against the huge cultural, economic, and even human forces for overeating.

The author, Guyenet, said a study of hunter gatherers are big, big bingers when they get the chance. Men can eat FIVE POUNDS of meat at a sitting, and ingest a quart and a half of honey, which they "drink like a glass of milk." And apparently don't sit around afterwards lamenting their fullness. He said they would be just as likely as us to get fat from a supermarket diet.

And of course, they do it probably only a few times a month, if not a year.

(In fact, when obesity researchers were looking for a way to get mice to overeat, which most of them cannot be induced to do even though they never worry about how they'll look in a bikini nor how bad their eating is for their health, i.e. there is NO prefrontal cortex action involved at all. One researcher stumbled on it by feeding one of them a little of the supermarket food around. Worked. Like. Magic. When given a choice, they abandoned their simple fare and expanded their waistlines joyously.)

He also posits something I've been saying for a few years: in the atmosphere of plenty, (and no cultural value for limits) there is absolutely nothing normal about being able to eat the amount we'd like and stay thin. Or eat only when stomach hungry. Ludicrous! Not many of them lived to be our ancestors.

He has also talked about how gradual many of the eating environment and habits have been. Sure, the 70's were a real takeoff point, but in the preceding 100 years, things had changed a lot, too. Each generation or so has gotten used to more and more refined foods or manufactured-canned, boxed, frozen-, so that we defend practices that are very different than they had been. And not just us, but even the modern slim cultures take for granted eating a level of refined foods, mostly flour and sugar, impossible a hundred years ago. A small piece of chocolate every day? A dessert every weekend? More and more baked products so that they now constitute nearly half of the diet?

I'm trying not to get too seduced by using the measuring stick from that far back as a stand in for being able to follow some contemporary diet. It's so easy to want to get all moral about it! Which is not to say there aren't some real benefits from a way different diet than even from the 50's and 60's, but it's not in keeping with No S to get very commando about it.

And it looks to me in hindsight that IF was being a little too commando.

But I am very willing to use some prefrontal cortex to get back to better habits, and given the human preferences and modern excess and my own former deep groove, it's going to take that. Which is another way of saying, as we know, it's an inside job, at least until those better habits are in place, and probably a little for maintenance.

On a completely different note, I am so so happy that it's as light as it is out now at 6:37 a.m. when I've been awake for nearly two hours. Another hour of darkness in the mornings is not something I look forward to come mid-December to mid- January. How I envy those who can sleep through them.


Last edited by oolala53 on Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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gingerpie



Joined: 06 Apr 2014
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, There is so much that I can relate to that I don't know where to start. It feels as though you are in a similar place to me in regards to feeling some sadness in accepting that "what I have is what I have" and that, given our ages, there really isn't much chance that we'll change all that much before our time here is over. The trick now, is to come to a place of peace. For me, I don't want to feel tired and grouchy before I even get out of bed int he morning so to come to a place of peace, I need to learn to give up my wine and snacks. -yes- they really do make that much of a difference. I too have to accept that my young-and-sexy years are a thing of the past and the best I can hope for now is old-and-somewhat-sexy-as-compared-to-my-peers. The motivation can't be how I look but even giving that up is a loss because it's been a motivating factor for so long it's become part of my identity. (I hope that makes sense. It made sense in my head but somehow it doesn't look the same printed out) When I look in the mirror I just have to sigh because my belly isn't going anywhere no matter how many crunches I do, miles I run or calories I count. My this is hard to put into words but it's as though I've reached a place that I don't care about the belly, I care about the loss of not caring about the belly because caring is who I was. If I don't care anymore, then who am I?

I'm glad you owned up to the effects of IF for you. I was beginning to be swayed by all the talk of success floating around but my big underlying question was "if I can't be successful by fasting between meals then why would I try to do more of an unsuccessful behavior?" So, I decided to work on the obvious first (wine and evening snacks) and ignore the siren song of faster weight loss or even better health which (like you) has become a much bigger motivator than weight loss itself. To be honest, my husband has started a sort of self made IF program whereby he eats breakfast, dinner and usually an evening snack but skips lunch. Apparently he just accidentally started doing this due to work constraints and realized he didn't need lunch. The difference I see between what he does and IF is that he found it by responding to what worked for him. He isn't worried about it. It wasn't a plan or a goal to look a certain way. It just is. That's what I want for myself, a way if being that "just is".

As to your habits, of course you can get back to what you were doing, Once you have skills you never lose them. Like riding a bike but it's true for everything. Skills might get rusty and you might have to double up on some practice time but the underlying connections in your brain are still there. I think the difficulty might come in accepting that the habits might not yield the sane results. I can still ride a bike but I can't go as fast. It's that truth that I have the most difficulty with.

All this to say that I wish you well in your journey and support you on your way.
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Larkspur



Joined: 06 Mar 2017
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Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's the book, Oolala?

Youth and beauty is such a siren call, worse for women I think. But I find it helpful to remember that like so many things, it's good for some things, not so good for others. My most physically beautiful friends have not necessarily had the easiest time of it. What is best in life? Being chosen because you're the prettiest? That's heady stuff and it's fun, but it doesn't necessarily help you that much with the business of living.

I don't know, I think if you're a basically determined and effective person who's struggled with weight all your life, pounds are The Enemy, and vanquishing them lights up your brain even when they may not be that important from a health or even a cosmetic perspective. NoS is so great because it helps you be peaceful around food, and if you lose that peace trying to chase down a few cosmetic pounds, doesn't that feel like misplaced focus?

I feel bad if talking about IF is distressing anyone. Personally I think it flows pretty nicely with NoS, and recent research has some interesting implications for diabetes prevention/treatment. My perspective is that NoS already regulates insulin and makes food into a normal happy part of life; I'd argue IF is stronger medicine of a similar type. But then my motivation is mostly health. Fluffy as I am, I don't have a long history of restriction getting into my headspace. For me it's all about wrestling insulin into its proper place. But for someone else, the mental battle might be more important and that might call for a different toolkit.

Thanks for your thoughts, very interesting.
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
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Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Larkspur. I assume you are agreeing with me that chasing cosmetic pounds is seductive but for mostly the wrong ultimately only marginally satisfying reasons.

I, too, thought IF could flow nicely with No S. I read tons and tons on the benefits but rarely discussed it here because it's not really No S and because in modern times, it is definitely an imposition on the eating routine, and not lived naturally by any known civilization, at least not in the way IF is presented. If I had a present health condition, I think I could get back into it, but it will take some doing to get back to thinking for the future. For anyone with that motivation, and not just lip service to it, it's certainly more natural and less painful than many prescriptions. Though I would caution anyone that if they think they can get the same health and weight loss benefits LONG TERM while eating a lot of junk or refined foods, they are likely to be disappointed OR be one of the exceptions. The researcher said that these foods tend to keep the set point higher than when whole foods are eaten. But it's all a trade off.

All I'm saying is that I thought IF was the answer and I'm nearly back where I was, right about on schedule for where the literature says I would likely be nearly two years later. No, it does say I should weigh more. We shall see.

Each person has to decide how much of the modern eating pattern they are willing to give up and what is worth keeping.

The book is The Hungry Brain by neuroscience and health blogger Stephan Guyenet. He doesn't say anyone has to live like him, but he lives a very different life from the rest of the population and certainly very different from what the vast majority of obese people especially in the concentrated areas they live in, are going to be willing to do. And different from how I'm likely to be willing to live, too. Most people are in denial of just what a hold manufactured foods have on them, myself included. It's much bigger than we want to believe, IMHO. And certainly our ability to get to the media-driven lows, unless we can start over with a new generation, are, pardon the pun, very slim.

And that is not an idea that will sell a lot of books.

Honestly, I'm not completely peaceful on No S, which was one of the reasons I entertained IF, but I'm not willing to do anything else because I see now that it's unlikely that anything else is going to get me to any better peace, and it's still a better-than-reasonable way to live. My problems have to do with other features of my life and likely the fact that by having gained quite a bit of weight and having kept it on for a number of years, now that I'm close to where I was before starting that "party," my body takes less food to feel completely sated -which is not the same as not feeling empty-stomach hunger- than it would have if I had never gained weight and sustained it. So some of the time, I am going to feel like eating even when it's not time, and that is likely true no matter how long I keep the habit. I am not suffering like the person who was obese for most of her life, or even for adulthood and is now maintaining a low weight, but the mechanisms are very similar.

And at this moment, I'm okay with that.
_________________
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 64
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but harder to maintain)
Dec/17 23.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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lin47



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gingerpie wrote:
. . . my husband has started a sort of self made IF program whereby he eats breakfast, dinner and usually an evening snack but skips lunch


Oolala, I hope you don't mind me popping in to comment on Gingerpie's post. Gingerpie and Oolala, my husband has eaten this way since I met him (about 30 years ago). He has never had a weight problem. He doesn't really desire lunch, but he also has mentioned that he thinks it's good for the body to have a "break" to digest the food, and since he rarely feels like making lunch, he figures lunch is as good a meal as any to skip.

My mod for No S is two meals a day. It's working out fine so far. When I tried a version of IF years ago (16/8 ), I would end up eating a late lunch and dinner. I find I like the breakfast/dinner combo better than lunch/dinner.
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jenji



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been avoiding reading much on the threads promoting IF, because to be honest, it sounds like disordered eating to me. I'm not any kind of expert, so don't quote me.

The reason I am attracted to No S is the simplicity and the healthy habits. I want to be able to think about things that aren't my body and my diet. If you could let go of the need to worry about how your body is perceived by others, what would you spend that time doing?

The urgent messages to look more attractive every year aren't possible. They are a fool's errand. We look fine, we really do. We look wonderful. We look like beloved friends and teachers and family members. I promise you are so beautiful to so many people, and your spirit is what makes you beautiful. So if becoming more attractive isn't the end game, what is worthy of your beautiful spirit and your time?

Sorry to be so blunt. It is offered with great admiration.
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I am 5' 7"
Began No S at 184#, BMI 28.4 - 9/25/2017
Current weight 176#, BMI 27.6 - 11/22/2017
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
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Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your concern, but I don't quite understand, as I think I was saying the same thing. I believe the quest for appearance is a false idol, meaning not the real thing. (In fact, when people here lose weight, I almost always congratulate them on the HABITS that got them there, not the loss itself. I put my losses in my signature line just because it's so important to some, kind of like Reinhard's token periodic picture updates.) I did not start No S to lose weight but to change my eating. They are not the same thing to me. The weight loss has been a side effect. In all my years I THINK I have been distracted by the quest for loss only a couple of times, that last time when I made changes for health that took me to a low weight I didn't expect. (Someone patient may be able to peruse my zillions of posts and prove me wrong. And I don't claim to have done nothing for vanity.)

I did not do IF for weight loss. I tried it because of problems with almost never feeling true hunger but still having a desire to eat and because it does have health benefits. (It's a long story, much written about.) I did finally feel real hunger again, but it never became an easy routine, like Vanilla was for so long. The new weight loss brought the ghosts out and they messed with me! I danced along for awhile, but it was not with enthusiasm, and the music stopped months ago. I think it's similar to what can happen when somebody starts making more money and then thinks, wow, I never thought I could aim for (a rather ambitious) X amount of money. They start doing all kinds of extra things to make money that end up damaging their overall quality of life, which is what the money is supposed to help, but which is almost never the foundation of contentment.

But it was short-lived, thank goodness.

I don't feel I struggle with my weight; I was unclear if I came off like that. I am not trying to change my weight, though I think I said I worry that my body fat is high, not because of esthetics, but because disease-free longevity is highly associated with lower body fat than I have, but even that is not a good reason to get too frazzled.

I struggle with my EATING, not my weight, because I do not have the ease with hunger and satiety that I did for several years on No S. (See above on long story). And I feel my recent failures are a delayed boomerang of IF even though I didn't do it for weight loss. The body will fight change no matter what your reasons. But the right reasons can tip the battle in the target direction. I've lost sight of the reasons, but I think I see it in perspective. My efforts to adjust my eating runs parallel to other avenues I deal with that have nothing to do with eating but that cause as much or more discomfort than eating does. I've said many times those are much harder to change than eating has been but I accept that as part of the mix of life. Those I've touched on but am not willing to hash them out completely here.

In other words, things are in flux in many arenas and I have decided that, as is said these days, it is what it is.



I've probably gone on way too long and should have just said, thanks for your good wishes. hope I haven't offended, either.
_________________
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 64
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but harder to maintain)
Dec/17 23.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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Kathleen



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oolal53,
I think a better gauge of success is if you feel better. Dr. Bert Herring, who invented the Fast-5 Diet of eating only within a 5 hour window daily, has a philosophy called "The Study of One." You need to do what works for you. Although I am frustrated by a mere 5 pound weight loss in 6 months, I am sticking with this plan because I feel better and it works with my family life. My hope is more pounds come off. I'm willing to exercise more. I've experimented with a lot of fasting over many years that just did not work for me.
Kathleen
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The behavior is the goal. My goal is fasting.
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jenji



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Location: Cambridge

PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oolala53 wrote:
Thanks for your concern, but I don't quite understand, as I think I was saying the same thing. I believe the quest for appearance is a false idol, meaning not the real thing. (In fact, when people here lose weight, I almost always congratulate them on the HABITS that got them there, not the loss itself. I put my losses in my signature line just because it's so important to some, kind of like Reinhard's token periodic picture updates.) I did not start No S to lose weight but to change my eating. They are not the same thing to me. The weight loss has been a side effect. In all my years I THINK I have been distracted by the quest for loss only a couple of times, that last time when I made changes for health that took me to a low weight I didn't expect. (Someone patient may be able to peruse my zillions of posts and prove me wrong. And I don't claim to have done nothing for vanity.)

I did not do IF for weight loss. I tried it because of problems with almost never feeling true hunger but still having a desire to eat and because it does have health benefits. (It's a long story, much written about.) I did finally feel real hunger again, but it never became an easy routine, like Vanilla was for so long. The new weight loss brought the ghosts out and they messed with me! I danced along for awhile, but it was not with enthusiasm, and the music stopped months ago. I think it's similar to what can happen when somebody starts making more money and then thinks, wow, I never thought I could aim for (a rather ambitious) X amount of money. They start doing all kinds of extra things to make money that end up damaging their overall quality of life, which is what the money is supposed to help, but which is almost never the foundation of contentment.

But it was short-lived, thank goodness.

I don't feel I struggle with my weight; I was unclear if I came off like that. I am not trying to change my weight, though I think I said I worry that my body fat is high, not because of esthetics, but because disease-free longevity is highly associated with lower body fat than I have, but even that is not a good reason to get too frazzled.

I struggle with my EATING, not my weight, because I do not have the ease with hunger and satiety that I did for several years on No S. (See above on long story). And I feel my recent failures are a delayed boomerang of IF even though I didn't do it for weight loss. The body will fight change no matter what your reasons. But the right reasons can tip the battle in the target direction. I've lost sight of the reasons, but I think I see it in perspective. My efforts to adjust my eating runs parallel to other avenues I deal with that have nothing to do with eating but that cause as much or more discomfort than eating does. I've said many times those are much harder to change than eating has been but I accept that as part of the mix of life. Those I've touched on but am not willing to hash them out completely here.

In other words, things are in flux in many arenas and I have decided that, as is said these days, it is what it is.



I've probably gone on way too long and should have just said, thanks for your good wishes. hope I haven't offended, either.


Got it. I also struggle to change other habits as well, so I sympathize. Sorry that I was off-topic/off-base with my comments. Hope you have a good day and a good Thanksgiving!
_________________
I'm a 48-year-old mom and non-profit CEO
I am 5' 7"
Began No S at 184#, BMI 28.4 - 9/25/2017
Current weight 176#, BMI 27.6 - 11/22/2017
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
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Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kathleen, nice to see you and thanks for commenting! I think it is not possible to measure the efficacy of any program in less than two years. What can feel easy and right for periods of time can become shaky and difficult later. That's why Reinhard says there is no such thing as before and after: only before and during. But it doesn't mean we don't reflect as we go, just that we recognize it isn't likely all over in a few weeks or months.

And I have ALWAYS maintained that improvements in how we feel eating more moderately is way more important than weight loss. It is just about the only incentive that lasts, unless a person has a health condition that doesn't let them feel the benefits as clearly, so they must rely on blood markers.

I have read Herring's work as well and my continued issue with him and most other change-of-diet promoters is that it is not necessary nor helpful to continually imply that every person needs some detailed individual plan to be successful. I would guess that fewer than 20% of people need very precise plans. Well more than 80% of most country's populations (if there was an adequate food supply) stayed slim on meal-based eating spread out over the course of a day for generations. The simple fact is that anything that millions of people have not already done in the last 200 years is very unlikely to be necessary. Worse, the alternatives are likely to divert the individuals from truly embracing a general plan that they can then adjust. (I do like his concept of adjusting.) Fasting as it is practiced in recent times only approximates what previous generations had to contend with; nearly none of their fasting was self-imposed. Adjusting contents of the foods at discrete meals is a small issue in comparison with simple limiting the number and size of the "feedings."

That being said, congratulations on six months of compliance and on feeling that Fast-5 is doable. I didn't know it had gone on that long. Have you followed his suggestions on dealing with lack of weight loss or continued overeating/gorging, if that still happens, or do they seem like they might rock the boat too much?

I felt exponentially better in my first five years on No S, though I never had the breezy ease that some have reported. It was and is a terrific improvement over the decades of disordered eating I had done.

I have written extensively about my "troubles," but I in no way ever felt that they negated the value of No S. My life is STILL better with the meal structure as the aspired-to foundation, but it doesn't mean that it doesn't take some very purposeful effort at times. I think anyone who says that willpower cannot or should not be used either to begin of continue a habit is doing a disservice. It certainly takes less willpower to maintain some habits, but the effort for this habit is worth it TO ME, even when I sometimes falter or whine about it. I accept that the pull of the frequent access to easy-to-overeat foods, as well as some personal conditions, will take some willpower to counteract for the long run. It's certainly better than the alternative!


Jenji, thank you and a very pleasant holiday week to you, too.
_________________
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 7 years & counting
Age 64
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but harder to maintain)
Dec/17 23.8

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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