Octavia is finally checking in!

Counting carbs/calories is a drag. Obsessive scale stepping is a recipe for despair. If you want to count something, "days on habit" is a much better metric. Checking off days on a calendar would do just fine, but if you do it here you get accountability and support. Here's how. Start a new topic in this forum called (say) "Your Name Daily Check In." Then every N day post a "reply" to that topic as to whether you stayed on habit. A simple "<font color="green">SUCCESS</font>" or "<font color="red">FAILURE</font>" (or your preferred euphemism if that's too harsh) is sufficient, but obviously you're welcome to write more if you want. On S-days just register that you're taking an S-day. You don't have to do this forever, just until you're confident you've built the habit. Feel free to check in weekly or monthly or sporadically instead of daily. Feel free also to track other habits besides No-s (I'm keeping this forum under No-s because that's what the vast majority are using it for). See also my <a href="/habitcal/">HabitCal</a> tool for another more formal (and perhaps complementary) way to track habits.

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Post by Soprano » Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:39 pm

Habitcal is great, I used it in the beginning but had a few special days and holiday would definitely have been yellow.

I never think of calories anymore, what a relief that is.

Apart from the rules I don't limit any food group, eat whatever I want cooked as I want.

However I do eat good food, organic, homemade where possible from raw ingredients and a good balance of fats carbs and protein.

After reading the diet myth - not a diet book. I am introducing more veg protein and also toying with missing the odd meal to reap some of the benefits of fasting. :)

It's your journey do it your way
Last edited by Soprano on Sat Jul 28, 2018 4:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Octavia
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Post by Octavia » Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:22 am

...must check out that book, Soprano. More veg protein would be good for me, too.

Had a hilarious, classic fail last night! Had been working late, then had big commute, home at about 11.30...found a cream donut in the fridge...couldn’t resist, was so hungry....then crisps! Should have had a bigger dinner, but it was tricky in th circumstances.

I actually feel quite reassured by this fail, as I was worried I’d become too rigid and afraid of failure.

Anyway, today has a similar pattern, late night etc, so I’ll be more prepared.

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Post by Octavia » Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:06 pm

I feel a lot better about No S since my holiday and Wednesday’s fail. I’m being less rigid, and I feel a bit more ‘myself’. But lessening the strictness comes at a price: already I feel less strong...more tempted by goodies. Previously I was more of an automaton, and felt no urges on N days. I’d rather be like I am now, though - making choices, even though they feel difficult. DH and DD had puddings tonight, and I definitely felt urges but chose to hang on till tomorrow. It felt a bit like choosing to have a rotten evening, but what got me through was the idea that I couldn’t afford another fail day.

It’s as if I’m rediscovering Vanilla No S...one where I’m less rigid on N days and less mad on S days. Engaging my intelligence rather than my sense of ‘compliance’. I’ve decided to carry on with Habitcal, because I feel quite vulnerable during this change.

Compliance - ‘fencing around the law’ - was incredibly important for the first months, though, in order to break down my very fixed ‘feed on demand’ habit. So I’m glad I went through that rigid phase. It just started to feel weird.

Meals today, just for the record:
B - two pains au chocolat. Bad breakfast but still, a plate of food.
L - four ryvita crispbreads, two with cheese, two with tuna; two tomatoes.
D - small piece garlic bread, pasta with tomato sauce and rocket, an apple.
(Can’t remember when i last cooked a good, square meal - I’ve too much work on at the moment.)

Also had two boiled sweets during a tedious car journey this afternoon, and a small hot chocolate before bed. I reckon this was a pretty moderate day. Not the sort that leads to quick weight loss, but I’m focussing on tweaking my habits more than slimming. Wasn’t able to do my banana morning snack as we’d run out of bananas....and couldn’t do the apple afternoon snack as we were in the car...!

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Post by Octavia » Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:00 am

Still feeling good, and doing this Mod which I call Fibre Supplement. I have an apple and a banana every day, which can be eaten either as snacks or dessert. They are foods which would always fit into my mealtime plates, so I’m looking at them as just a virtual plating decision - postponing part of the plate till later - rather than extra food. This is a bit like the approach of Debra Waterhouse (Taming the Female Fat Cell) who advised to divide meals into two smaller ones. Of course, in my addicted, pre-No S days, this was to me just an excuse to eat loads of extra food. So her book just encouraged my overeating. But things have changed for me since No S, and I’m no longer reviling the poor woman.

I still remember Reinhard’s warning about fruit snacks - ‘nothing is in itself’ - ie. that it can quickly lead to worse snacking, to losing control. But I think I’m doing it mindfully enough not to lose control or delude myself.

Weight has been the same for many weeks. I’m still a UK size 14, but a smaller one. But in difficult moments recently I’ve reminded myself of my non-weight loss motivation, thinking what would happen if I indulged in snacks or sweets on N days...the sheer pointlessness of it, how it would only lead to more craving, more desire. To not wanting my dinner, to feeling the despair of being on that hamster wheel again. The idea of ‘futility’ certainly helps me!

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Post by automatedeating » Thu Aug 02, 2018 2:11 am

Hi Octavia! I love increasing my SOLUBLE fiber and see really good effects in my weight, my energy (!?) and a decrease in hunger. I actually take a soluble fiber supplement. I started it a few years ago when I got C. Diff, an abx-associated infection, but I continue to take it because I feel the difference when I do.
My favorite brand is Heather's Tummy Fiber.
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Post by eschano » Thu Aug 02, 2018 6:32 am

Thank you for stopping by my thread and your encouragement. I think if you stick to apples and bananas instead of new combinations of food it could easily become a habit.
eschano - Vanilla rocks!

July 2012- January 2016
Started again July 2018

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Post by Octavia » Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:15 am

Hi Tess and Auto! I meant to check in ages ago and say thanks for your supportive comments. I’ve checked out Heather’s Tummy Fibre, Auto, and I might try some. Folks on her forum say it’s expensive but worth it. Tess, I’ve done well sticking to apples and bananas for my ‘supplements’ and haven’t been tempted to stray onto bad snacks. This has made me feel reassured - like, my habits really have changed, and I’m not in danger of relapsing into ‘feed on demand’, my old eating style! I do feel quite well this week.

Weight has dipped a tiny bit (like, not quite a pound) since I did my Fibre Supplement mod. I think it’s helping me to eat a bit less. I’ve also been on long walks every day. I know that soon, life will get in the way and I won’t be able to keep these walks up, but right now, I’m in a good routine.

Happy S days, everyone!

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Post by Imogen Morley » Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:27 am

Hi Octavia! Thank you for your kind words in my thread, you really made my weekend. How has your been? Satisfying, I hope!

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Post by Octavia » Fri Aug 31, 2018 12:42 pm

Hi Imogen! Sorry I didn’t get back to you - great to hear from you, and hope you’re well. Will pop by your thread later to say hi. Haven’t checked in for a while - have been busy, but just trogging along with No S. Mostly doing OK, but a summer cold has descended and I had my first Big Fail day for a while yesterday. Went shopping after a healthy, cold-friendly lunch of chicken soup, and found I was absolutely starving as I usually am after any kind of soup lunch. (this is annoying, as I like soup, and it’s a good way of getting lots of veg in one go). I bought a huge bar of white chocolate with nuts, went back to bed and scoffed most of it. Yes, it took my mind off the sore throat and headache...

Weight-wise, no real loss, but no gain either, which is good news for me. I am still 9lb lighter than my first weigh-in back in January. I feel a lot better about myself. But yesterday’s blip has worried me a little, as it was just the sort of behaviour that I used to carry out on a regular basis. I don’t want to slip back. Normally, knowing it’s an N day is enough to keep me off the chocolate, but yesterday that didn’t stop me. I’m no longer doing Habitcal, and perhaps I am understanding that concept of the training wheels coming off. I really am pedalling my own bike now, doing No S my way, with a sense of personal choice, not ‘compliance’. I suppose a bit of wobbling is inevitable.

I feel better for having checked in on the forum, though! I’m not ready to leave it behind, and regardless of my eating habits, I really value the friendships I’ve made here.

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Post by Soprano » Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:48 pm

Octavia wrote:Hi Imogen! Sorry I didn’t get back to you - great to hear from you, and hope you’re well. Will pop by your thread later to say hi. Haven’t checked in for a while - have been busy, but just trogging along with No S. Mostly doing OK, but a summer cold has descended and I had my first Big Fail day for a while yesterday. Went shopping after a healthy, cold-friendly lunch of chicken soup, and found I was absolutely starving as I usually am after any kind of soup lunch. (this is annoying, as I like soup, and it’s a good way of getting lots of veg in one go). I bought a huge bar of white chocolate with nuts, went back to bed and scoffed most of it. Yes, it took my mind off the sore throat and headache...

Weight-wise, no real loss, but no gain either, which is good news for me. I am still 9lb lighter than my first weigh-in back in January. I feel a lot better about myself. But yesterday’s blip has worried me a little, as it was just the sort of behaviour that I used to carry out on a regular basis. I don’t want to slip back. Normally, knowing it’s an N day is enough to keep me off the chocolate, but yesterday that didn’t stop me. I’m no longer doing Habitcal, and perhaps I am understanding that concept of the training wheels coming off. I really am pedalling my own bike now, doing No S my way, with a sense of personal choice, not ‘compliance’. I suppose a bit of wobbling is inevitable.

I feel better for having checked in on the forum, though! I’m not ready to leave it behind, and regardless of my eating habits, I really value the friendships I’ve made here.
Sorry to hear you are unwell. I suspect the chocolate craving had a lot to do with your cold.

Be kind to yourself, you'll get back on plan :)

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Post by ladybird30 » Sat Sep 01, 2018 5:07 am

S for sick day?
Three meals a day - not too little not too much, but just right

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Post by lpearlmom » Sat Sep 01, 2018 2:37 pm

Glad you’re still around! I find this forum so incredibly helpful. Don’t even worry about the slip up. It’s perfectly normal and all part of the journey. I’d personally just call it a sick day and move on. Maybe since you know soup doesn’t fill you up enough try having a half a sandwich or something with it from now on?

You’re doing great—you got this!

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Post by Octavia » Sun Sep 02, 2018 2:38 pm

Thanks so much for your sympathy and support, Linda, Soprano and Ladybird! I think it was definitely a sick day, when I had all that chocolate. I was still a bit off track on Friday , but not so bad, and now it’s the weekend I feel I’m just having more sick days rather than excessive treat days. I’m actually in bed as I write this, even though it’s a lovely afternoon. We’re going out to eat tonight- naturally I don’t want to go (coughing, hacking, sneezing and feeling generally dopey), but FIL has come down specially to treat us. I want to make sure I am properly hungry, then I have a much better chance of enjoying the evening. (Still haunted by the ghastly memory of overeating at that same restaurant, then passing out on the bathroom floor after my bath...) :oops:

I can’t wait for this cold to pass, then I can get interested again in matters of fitness and weight control. I feel could achieve more - improve my habits a bit more. I’ve not been very engaged with all this stuff for a while. Life and work just take over. I have continued doing Vanilla where possible, though.

Soup - yes, it must go with something more filling, not just a small piece of bread, which is what I usually do. I should use it as a ‘supplement’ with a sandwich, as you suggested Linda. Soup must not be used as a ‘diet-friendly, low cal meal replacement’ (I think I am guilty of this).

Brewing more hot lemon now. Determined to keep off the peanuts and biscuits which are lingering in the kitchen.

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Post by automatedeating » Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:08 pm

Oh, I hope you feel better soon! And I'm sorry you'll be heading out to dinner tonight, but I do hope that you have a nice time, despite your cold.
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Post by Octavia » Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:25 pm

Thanks Auto! We did have a nice time, though I hit a wall of tiredness after a couple of hours.

Once home from the meal, I kept away from the bath 😂! Yes, I was totally stuffed again, even though I gave half my starter away and could only manage a few spoons full of my dessert. Somehow I can’t seem to cope with big restaurant meals! Maybe the food is just too rich and dense. Anyway I wobbled home feeling like I was about to give birth to a space hopper, and spent a while playing the piano, waiting for it all to go down. Then came the terrible thirst, so I have now re-inflated with water. Still coughing as well.

I feel like I’ve had too many days of ‘enforced’ overeating....not that anyone is forcing it down my throat...but I mean, feeling unwell with this cold, going on our summer holiday, FIL taking us to dinner, stuff like that. I just want to do my normal routine! I’ve just checked in with the Six miles to supper blog...(mentioned by Linda I think)...thinking that it might get me back to weight loss if I skip breakfast. But maybe I need to get back to a steady vanilla routine for a few weeks before I dabble in such things. I’m definitely interested, though...although I wonder if the Six Miles lady is responding to a slightly different sort of overeating problem to mine. I get the impression that she had trouble controlling her portions, so now she enjoys having a single meal that can be as big as she likes. I can’t eat much in one go: my weaknesses are snacking and sweets. Maybe vanilla is best, for now.

Anyway, I’m really glad I’ve started checking in again and catching up with people, because I already feel more focussed and a bit more like it’s time to concentrate on me and my health. Remembering my true motivation: to conquer my insane, cyclic, treat-food habits so I can eat what the sensible part of my brain thinks I should eat, instead of being ‘forced’ to eat unhealthily. That’s not very concise. I mean, to not have my health and weight determined by out-of-control habits.

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Post by lpearlmom » Mon Sep 03, 2018 4:26 am

Hi Octavia! Sorry the meal still wasn’t so enjoyable. If I don’t eat all day, I seem to be able to enjoy those kind of meals. Kayla (6 mile girl) does pretty advanced version of IF. You could try some more tame like 16/8 and see if you enjoy it but it’s not for everyone!

I hope you feel better and can get to a normal routine soon.
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Post by automatedeating » Mon Sep 03, 2018 3:05 pm

Octavia and Linda -- I just went over and read a bit of the 6 miles to dinner blog. What an inspiring blog! And definitely fits easily with NoS. I should chime in that my BEST results with my weight was when I walked 90 minutes most days -- it is sustainable and nothing ever hurts. Interesting that she manages to walk so much even with 3 little kids!!!
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Post by Octavia » Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:40 pm

...it is interesting how Kayla does all that walking with 3 kids!!!Where do they go while she walks? If she’s walking in the house, surely they will be interrupting and doing their best to stop her! My DD would never let me do anything that didn’t involve her being the prime focus! But Kayla is obviously very committed and nothing gets in her way. Its making me wonder if I’ve been too ready to give up my plans and fit in with others. Walking is fantastic, because you can do it even if you’re tired and grumpy. I love that Kayla says she goes quite slowly, because she wants to enjoy it, not get puffed out.

I managed a good Vanilla day again today. I feel quite vulnerable, as if it could all unravel: I’m afraid I’ve put on weight over the summer, and it’s making me want to get it off quickly, but that won’t work. I have to just return to Vanilla, and get the habits going again. Maybe start Habitcal again. Not sure.
Breakfast: 2 pieces of toast, 2 scrambled eggs.
Lunch: (slightly weird) 2 welsh cakes, a piece of cheese, an apple.
Dinner: haddock, 3 medium new potatoes, carrots, mangetout and peas, with a little butter. A few grapes.

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Post by lpearlmom » Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:27 am

I’m thinkimg one of her kids must be old enough to watch the others because right now sounds like she goes really early in the morning with just her hubby. They’re RVing now so I guess that’s the easiest way. Before she’d spread it throughout the day and get the rest of her steps in before bed by walking around her house if needed. Pretty dedicated but it’s doable I think.
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Post by Octavia » Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:58 am

....spreading it throughout the day is a good idea, though you’d have to stay ‘mindful’ and not become completely distracted by other things. I did this once with Callanetics! :lol: that routine is quite boring if you do it all in one solid hour. It’s effective though.

I feel conflicted about Reinhard’s 14’ idea. I totally get that sustainability is key, and that you can always find 14’....and that high motivation doesn’t mean that free time to exercise magically opens up. But....as Auto mentioned, getting those big long walks in really can help to spark off weight loss. So...do we commit ourselves to long sessions, like Kayla, or stick to short ones like the canny Reinhard? Sadly I waver between the two points of view and go through long phases of not even getting started! I’m definitely at this point right now (though still waiting for this bad cold to subside). The daft thing is, Reinhard’s logic is putting me off going running, because even my short running routine would take up at least 50 minutes when you factor in driving to the park. So is that non-habit friendly, and therefore to be avoided?

Was relieved this morning that I’m back at my low weight, pre-sick days and the massive intake of chocolate. Perhaps I’ve been more compliant over the summer than I’ve feared. Having stopped Habitcal, I can’t see clearly how I’ve done. But I now prefer working without the training wheels of Habitcal.

I was happy to see that Oolala has checked in with us! And I think I understand what she’s saying - about not wanting happiness to depend upon compliance. It’s like there’s neurotic compliance, based on fear, and ‘self determined’ compliance, based on personal choice. And yet, when habits start to compel us to avoid snacks - meaning that our brains have become rewired- that can start to feel neurotic! This has been an issue with me. Wanting to form new habits, then finding that I don’t like being ruled by habits, full stop!

Ah well. I really must get out of bed.... :oops:

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Post by TexArk » Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:48 pm

I will give my 2 cents of advice or experience concerning exercise. Very few women can find one way to get the movement in we need to do that works for us and make it a lifetime habit. There are too many variables. As some have mentioned: what to do about children home alone, what to do about illness or injury, what to do about a changing work schedule, what to do about weather etc. The 14 minutes of weight lifting at home has not worked for me, but I am not a natural exerciser. My default is a comfy chair and a book! But as an older woman (71) I have had to monitor and adjust over the years. I do know that I can't make overly ambitious plans but I can't wait until the spirit moves me either. The exercise does help my mental health, and I need to do it for bone density, and I think weight loss and maintenance is improved just because my resting metabolism revs up. However, I cannot outrun my fork. So in my retirement years, for now, I walk a large dog in the mornings about a mile and a half. Then I walk with a friend later for about a mile. And in the evening I go to a gym close to my house to do about 20 minutes of weight lifting. When I still had a child at home, I walked with a friend at 6 in the morning. I never was able to do the after work, take my clothes, change, and workout...even though there was a gym right in the building where I worked. So... I assume we all know this. But just to say, what works for one may not work for another and what works for you now may not work for you later.

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Post by Octavia » Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:56 pm

Thanks for sharing your experience, TexArk! There are so many variables which make it hard to stick to a routine, and looking back over my life, I can see how I would never have been able to manage a single type of exercise throughout. As a child, I swam and roller skated. As a teen, a bit of dancing. 20s, aerobics...30s, Callanetics....40s, little mini work outs, 50s, running and walking. But all of it, very sporadic. Perhaps I can say that I have at least developed the habit of starting again after giving up! Another issue is that for me, the sense of accomplishment and the ‘buzz’ goes away after a while: the extra energy becomes less noticeable, like an adaptation I suppose. Then I lose motivation. But generally, I think it’s busyness and preoccupation with other life stuff that gets in my way.

I’ve had a decent green day. Still feeling unwell 🤧 with cold but managed a mild walk this evening!
Breakfast: 3 ryvitas with butter and various toppings - jam, marmite, etc. Not all together.... :lol:
Lunch: fried egg on toast, apple.
‘Fibre Supplement’ snack: another apple (intended to have a banana but they weren’t yet ripe.)
Dinner: pasta with tomato sauce and pecorino cheese.
Glass of milk.

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Post by automatedeating » Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:43 am

Wow - great conversation about exercise and everybody's thoughts.

I think if there's any way to have it built into the rhythm of the day, or part of something that HAS to get done (e.g. walking a dog, walking/biking to work) - that's my personal only chance of success. Argh, I feel like a DownerDebbie today.
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Post by Octavia » Sat Sep 08, 2018 10:02 am

You’re not being a downer at all, Auto! It makes sense to make exercise part of another task.

Hurrah, after several months, the scale has shifted down. I’ve had a good, compliant week after a slightly chaotic (though still on-plan) summer. I wonder if I can consolidate this? I’m in a phase of caring about weight loss. It comes and goes; sometimes I don’t care. As I’ve said many times, this is for me perhaps the major plus of No S, that you can still do it when you’re in one of those not-caring phases.

Sometimes I wonder if I’ve deluded myself all my life, believing that I didn’t NEED to lose weight, but just that it would be a nice little boost to my vanity. It’s possible that my slightly heavy weight has condemned me to a frumpiness that I’ve had to fight hard with clothes and styling. I have a big bosom, tummy and inner thighs. (Sorry, tmi.) I can look saucy and sassy in a cocktail dress. But in everyday life, I tend to be mostly invisible, and getting older makes it worse (though my ingenuity with clothing is far better than when I was young). I still can’t throw on jeans and a T shirt (my idea of bliss). Particularly a white T shirt. That would be so nice. I can just about wear a mid-toned, V neck T shirt over a long vest which covers my bum at the front. The vest smoothes out bulges, elongates my short body and covers the unsightly bits. But it’s a hassle and although I don’t look bad, I only achieve invisibility.

Of course, there have been benefits to my ‘delusion’ - I’ve never shed tears about being un-slim, and I’ve never been an obsessive dieter. I’m just perhaps thinking, maybe I should seriously try to get to proper slimness. It might surprise me with its benefits. At present I’m sort of doing No S to see what happens rather than aim for a weight loss goal.

Anyway...these are just my thoughts this morning. I’m probably feeling particularly invisible and frumpy right now as I’m still not well, just shaking off this cold, and it’s starting to get me down a bit. At least I can just rest today. Tbh I am also nervous as have arranged a family party next weekend and had annoying conversation with family member a couple of days ago which has put me in a very bad mood. This particular person means well but always manages to imply that I haven’t thought something through as if I am an artistic twit with my head in the clouds. Where in fact I am a worrier who tries to think of everything. Anyway, in these situations I always end up depressed and grieving the happy, simple relationships we all seemed to enjoy in childhood.

Arghhh! It’s me being a Debbie Downer today. I need to do some proper journaling and find solutions to these feelings, not just wallow or uselessly try to keep them at bay.

I should celebrate my little weight loss!

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Post by automatedeating » Sat Sep 08, 2018 1:59 pm

Octavia wrote: I can look saucy and sassy in a cocktail dress.
Lol, this is like Bridget Jones!! :lol:

And the feeling frumpy -- grr -- that seems to be a cyclical thing we women go through. And getting over being sick I'm sure intensifies it, as you mentioned. I hate that feeling, and I can't seem to control it. It comes and goes based on its own whims.

To the wishing we could enjoy relationships like we did in childhood. Oh, man! So true! People often discuss what Jesus meant when he said become like a little child. And then they talk about how children are different. But I think you just nailed another way children are different!
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Post by lpearlmom » Sat Sep 08, 2018 3:09 pm

Sorry you’re feeling down Octavia. And ugh family members really have a way of pushing our buttons, I know. I guess you can either ignore them and annoy them with your carefreeness or throw the best damn party ever and shut them up. Either way you win.

I missed the exercise discussion but what’s worked for me recently is signing up for this mud run with some friends. I’m suddenly very motivated because I don’t want to look foolish on race day. I guess that’s a weird thing to be motivated by but actually after a couple of weeks I started really enjoying the workouts and I even look forward to them. Being in shape (or working towards it) feels really good and I can tell you it helps with body image so much.

I don’t know if they have anything like that where you live but having some kind of end goal can really help. At some point I want to do the three day breast cancer walk with my daughter. That’d be another great goal. My race even has a 3 month exercise plan that I’ve been following so I don’t have to think too much. I just follow the plan and race day is always in the back of my mind.

As far as whether you should have weight loss as a goal, I’m not sure. When I was 210 lbs I convinced myself that I didn’t care and that everything was fine. Of course, it wasn’t fine. I was having horrible back pain, I refused to let my picture be taken, booths at restaurants were tight and I wouldn’t visit old friends. So yeah I was in full blown denial. I do feel so much better now that I’ve lost a lot of weight but it didn’t magically make everything better. And I still want to lose at least another 20 lbs. I also worry that I’ll never get to a place where I can say “okay I’m doneâ€. I’ll always want to lose more because that’s my nature.

Sooo not sure what my point is but if it’s not interfering with your everyday life like it was mine, maybe just focus on maintaining your habits and getting in shape in a way that’s sustainable and enjoyable.

Anyway, sorry for the novel. Enjoy your weekend!

Linda
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Post by automatedeating » Sat Sep 08, 2018 5:42 pm

Again to put conversations on poor Octavia's thread -- but Linda -- your weight loss journey is simply amazing!!!! 210 down to 150's. That is just wow wow wow. But also how interesting and revealing that even when we lose weight, we are still....ourselves. We still battle our same old battles and must still strive to accept ourselves, warts and all.
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Post by Octavia » Mon Sep 10, 2018 1:37 pm

Ladies, you are welcome to have conversations on my thread! It’s like hosting a party. 😃

So, my upcoming party. 😩 I’ve been thinking a lot about my recent upset (with the relative phone call), and have achieved a slightly more objective viewpoint I think. Like, seeing clearly that people are way out of order, saying the stuff they say, and that it’s bound to be upsetting. And while there’s no simple solution, naming the behaviour rather than ruminating over it is a start. I get anxious wondering if and how the barbs will come and whether I’ll cope with my internal reaction (usually rage followed by a horrible feeling of being unable to cope). It’s best to accept that barbs will probably come, and a strong internal reaction is inevitable and justified.

When I go on mumsnet, I read about behaviour which is far worse than what I have to put up with, but then, isn’t it the case that most insults or criticisms are hidden behind the fluff of humour, jollity or well meaning, helpful suggestions? I could deal with direct offences. Hidden stuff is more tricky.

I’ve decided that feeling proud of myself is the best defence. Be my own best friend at all times.

Bridget Jones!!! So funny Auto. Actually I would probably look quite good in Bridget’s bunny girl costume. Honestly, she is ME!

Linda, that’s inspiring about fitness goals. Perhaps I should make a fresh goal this season. I did enjoy doing Couch to 5k 2 years ago, but when i tried to push it further (simply running a bit faster), I started struggling and failing. But I learned a lot from that! It was a valuable experience. I need to make a more realistic, tangible goal. I can do this!!!! It’s great that you are planning the breast cancer walk! Setting an amazing example to your daughter.

Bring in denial about our weight is the other side of that tricky coin, caring too much about our weight. Again (like I was saying with my family interactions), a sort of objectivity is needed...when you see it and name it, but don’t have an emotional reaction to it. It is amazing to hear of your weight loss success, Linda. Hey, thanks for your advice on either being impressively laid back, or throwing an incredible party to shut them up. I will keep coming back to that sentence!

Must go and get on with some work. bye For now!

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Post by Octavia » Mon Sep 10, 2018 1:48 pm

Just to add (and then I really will do some work) - Auto, you’re right about the cyclical aspect of the frumpy feeling. It is something that comes and goes, and it’s really hard to put a finger on what causes it. It can be something as simple as wearing the wrong shoes or maybe even mooching round the house too much. Or perhaps subconscious influences, like exposure to adverts of professionally-styled non-frumps. I keep vowing to stop buying magazines, but then I see some headline and think I might pick up some good outfit ideas from it and feel less frumpy....but the outfit ideas are always ones that wouldn’t work for my shape and lifestyle. Yes, I think I will renew my vow to stop buying magazines.

One thing I love to do which really is helpful, is people-watching - seeing what women in the street, out and about, are wearing. Women of my sort of age and size. This is far better than looking at magazines - it just takes more time!

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Post by Octavia » Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:20 pm

A fairly average green day....though not the sort that will lose me any weight....had one egg on toast for breakfast, a couple of ryvitas plus a leftover sausage roll with tomatoes and an apple for lunch, then for dinner we went out for pizza. I had one of the ‘light’ ones, and didn’t eat it all, plus a few bits of ‘antipasto’, like olives etc. It was basically a plate, but a rather calorific one. No snacks, sweets or calorific drinks though! Hurrah.

I haven’t done any exercise. Woke up very late after drugging myself with cough mixture last night, and then had to stay in for the delivery of two dining chairs for the party next weekend. Arghhhh - they came with all the screws etc. missing!! DH is going to ring them tomorrow. Stuck at computer for the rest of the day, plus cleaning oven which was more laborious than I thought it would be. Did some washing. Changed bedding. Exciting, huh? Was reading on Quora this thing about why most of us hate to exercise. This guy had shared his theory which I didn’t quite understand, but he rounded off by saying that ‘if the President can find time to exercise, so can you!’ I found myself wondering if the President has to return from his run to cook breakfast, wash up and get his kids dressed for School Vegetable Day before he goes to his office. My own theory (regarding my own exercise failures!) is that it’s not so much being pressed for time as suffering from ‘Attention Splatter’. Also, that old diet-head feeling - ‘are you really trying this stuff again? Do you really think it will work this time?’ Negative thinking, I guess.

Anyway, I’m happy to say that I feel better tonight, regarding this cold virus. I feel more normal in myself and I’m coughing less. So as long as I can keep in control of Attention Splatter, I should be able to get some regular exercise going. (I got the term Attention Splatter from Christine Kane, a career coach blogger. She’s very good.)

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Post by Octavia » Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:22 pm

I managed to achieve visibility today. Went for a haircut and the lady was incredibly nice to me, complimenting me on my makeup, hair colour, complexion etc.., which boosted my morale. Then somehow I felt less frumpy as I walked down the street. I did try a new thing, wearing a denim skirt with ankle boots and NO TIGHTS plus one of those unlined, slightly egg-shaped coats. I didn’t feel super-fabulous, but somehow I had raised myself from true frumpiness. Perhaps I usually try too hard to wear what suits my figure...ie.what will prevent me looking fat. Maybe this is why I feel frumpy at times?

Preparations for this weekend’s party continue, and I cleaned out the fridge today. Gross. Why does DH buy so many stinking cheeses, then eat 3/4 of the pack and leave the last bit to fester? I found two forgotten bits of Camembert and loads of rock hard Parmesan!

Having a little rest now, to try to decide what to do next. Busy later this aft and this evening, so time is running out. Feeling a bit virus-y again today..like there’s a nasty taste or feeling in my throat, almost as if I’m going down with a new one! Oh dear.

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Post by automatedeating » Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:20 am

Oh no! Don't get sick again dear body! Sometimes I give my immune system a pep talk -- c'mon neutrophils, you can do this! Kick out those viruses at the door!

Lots going on with you, but glad to hear you felt less frumpy. And a hair-do! Yes! Good thinking.

My husband doesn't buy the stinky cheeses (actually, I'm more guilty party for that offense), but he buys these Costco-sized lunch meats that he thinks are a great deal. And they would be, if any of us ever ate it. :roll: And so they become a total moss garden in the back of the fridge after several months.
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Post by lpearlmom » Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:36 am

Oh boy you are getting a lot done! I think that’s one of the best things about having a party or having guests stay. I’m suddenly motivated to do stuff I’ve bedn putting off for weeks. And I hate cleaning out the frig but it’s most rewarding when it’s done. I’ve been known to open my frig and admire it several times afterwards.

Going to the hair salon always lifts my spirits too. Your outfit sounds adorable. I do like to wear what I feel good and sexy in even if it’s not supposed to be ideal for my body type. Today I saw a sign that said “I don’t need to step in the scale to tell how sexy I amâ€. I know it was trying to be funny but you know what? There’s some serious truth there. There just some non-tangible attractive quality to ppl that you can’t weigh or measure.

Anyway, hope you don’t get sick and that everything goes smoothly or even if it doesn’t, that you have some fun! (When is the party again?)
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Post by Octavia » Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:58 pm

The party is on Saturday, Linda. I’m doing a party-related task each day, and I think tomorrow I’ll be doing some food shopping and planning. My fridge is so white and clean, it’s weird! Terrible how I put up with the awful crud for so long! Solidified remnants of barbecue sauce and other loathsome things. I totally relate to the ‘moss garden’ in the back of Auto’s fridge. :lol: but right now mine looks quite organised....feeling smug, but it won’t last.

Tonight, I went out with some friends for a drink, and felt better than I have in days. Good conversation and laughter. Had nearly three glasses of wine. Is it possible that alcohol, as long as you don’t indulge too regularly, is therapeutic? The stufff I’ve been obsessing about recently, re. family conflicts, now seems like trivia. Bring a bit drunk can give you perspective. How can I exploit this effect without becoming an alcoholic? I do feel such a lot better, and am considering spending the day of the party in a state of inebriation.

A green day, despite the wine:
B: One slice of buttered toast, half with marmite, half with jam.
L: one slice of toast with a fried egg, then a banana and some grapes.
D: a spicy lamb burger with onions, mushrooms and peppers.

Lots of wine and a small hot chocolate for supper.

Still feel like I have a chest infection - had a terrible night last night, coughing. But I feel more accepting of it now. I was worried earlier today, that maybe I had inhaled fumes from the oven cleaner on Monday, resulting in this new irritation. But it’s probably just the end of the cold. I think I’ll sleep better tonight.

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Post by automatedeating » Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:39 pm

Ah, the siren call of alcohol!!!!

Your post was hilarious. Thanks for making my day.
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Post by worth it » Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:13 am

Octavia,

First of all, I hope you are feeling better and can sleep well again.

Secondly, I was laughing so hard while reading your post re: wine ðŸ·! Glad you had so much fun! It IS fun most of the time! 😀

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Post by lpearlmom » Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:40 am

Yay for wine! So glad you had fun! I agree getting out and letting loose can really help to put things in perspective. I need more of that in my life!

Sounds like you are really on top of everything and sure the party will be fabulous!
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Post by Octavia » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:18 am

Aah, thank you all! And this morning... well I barely have a hint of a headache...still feeling good! 😃

The trouble is, for me, wine is hit and miss as a ‘medicine’. I think last night is was the combination of the friends and the booze. At my party it may not work so well. This is good, as it’s the reason I don’t indulge too often. But hey, it’s worth a try....I’ve never before tried drinking my way through a family ordeal....actually I am being negative now, I think on the whole the party will be fun.

Well, blow me down! The scale has shifted to a new low! Surely another reason to have three glasses of wine a night!!!!ðŸ¾ðŸ˜±ðŸ˜‰
I swear it said 10 stone 4 and a half. That really is exciting. (I’m probably just in a state of extreme dehydration....). This is a great advert for vanilla- because over the summer I’ve had NWS days galore, but have never given up the basic structure....I’ve not lost weight for months, but obviously No S was still working some magic on me. I haven’t put any extra rules on my S days, but I’m finding that occasionally I forget to buy chocolate!!!!! The first sign that those S days are taming themselves. I’ve done just over 9 months on No S, and have lost at least 10lb, which for my age, height and weight, is amazing. I have no doubt that I would NEVER have lost this weight without No S. What would i have done? Probably a combo of calorie counting and giving up/overeating. I would have stayed cheerful, bought myself new clothes, and tried to work out new outfits for the bigger me. It would have beeen OK, but I feel I’ve had a narrow escape. For a while I thought No S could never work for me.

Actually, my Fibre Supplement mod - where I take an apple and a banana out of each meal and make it a snack instead (if I want to) - has helped a lot. The regime feels less restrictive, and I feel less tension. I’m glad I didn’t do this at the beginning though. I had to learn to stop grazing and snacking.

Today I’m going to look through recipe books and decide on some desserts. Also have some work to do, but I feel a bit less pressure now the oven and fridge are clean. The screws for the new dining chairs still haven’t come, so we have a load of cardboard packaging and flat pack chairs in the front room which is annoying, but I’m not as stressed as I was. If we can’t make up these new chairs in time for the party we’ll have to use a couple of office chairs. Or I’ll go out and buy plastic garden chairs!!! I DONT CARE!!!!😊

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Post by Octavia » Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:43 pm

Hurrah, the missing screws for the chairs arrived and DH put them together while DD and I went to the supermarket. Have bought almost all the food and drink for the party. So, yet another task has been ticked off. Seem to have out my back out picking up the bag containing all the alcohol.... :oops:

Today’s fodder.
B: piece of toast, half with jam, half with peanut butter. Am finding I can get through the morning with just the one slice.
L: egg and tomatoes with toast.
D: chicken curry with vegetables and rice.

Fibre Supplement mod: a banana after lunch, and I’ll probably have an apple before bed.

I could do with preparing better quality meals, but I don’t seem to have time to think about it. Maybe after the party I’ll get my act together.

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Post by worth it » Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:12 am

Octavia,

Congratulations on your new low! It’s so wonderful to know what works for you personally and to have confidence around eating.

And looks like you are almost ready for the party... I hope your back is not too bad. :shock: I just know it’s going to go great!

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Post by ladybird30 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:54 am

Great to see some weight loss reward for sticking to No S. Congrats.
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Post by Octavia » Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:58 pm

Thanks, Ladybird and worth it!

Ive been so busy that I haven’t had time to check in since the much-anticipated party. But I’m pleased to report that the party passed without incident. In fact I think it was quite a success. But I was left with loads of calorific, palatable leftovers which became increasingly tempting as the days went by, and after having a binge-y Monday (as well as Saturday and Sunday!), I realised I needed to throw it all away, even really luxurious desserts. It’s funny, but in the old days I would never have had the strength to do this, whereas now, I’m obviously still ‘addicted’ to this stuff, but there’s a small amount of detachment which allows me to stay in control. It was salutary, though, to see how easily control is lost, just by having these huge, creamy, celebratory desserts in the fridge.

Well now I’ve clocked up two N days again, so I think I’m back in the saddle. Weight has gone up, though. I probably did get through a pound’s worth of calories in those three days.

Being too busy to check in has made me grumpy - it seems so pointless to try to start any sort of exercise routine or get any goals going. Work and other commitments are like a tidal wave, washing over my delusions of self-determination! 😩 Today I ended up working till 10pm because of having to break off so often for various parental duties...and last night I ended up doing emails at an evening class when I was supposed to be having fun. I feel defeated... I can’t seem to keep work at bay, and it seems to get the better of me despite my determination to live a balanced life. I know I’m luckier than many people though. So I must stop grumbling! It’s late so that isn’t helping.

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Post by worth it » Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:21 am

Octavia, just wanted to send some hugs 🤗! I (emphatically) know how you feel. Sometimes just doesn’t seem at all worth it.

Anyway, I hope things slow down at work very soon! Balance is so important for one’s soul. 😊

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Post by Soprano » Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:57 am

You did really well with the leftover food. I hate food waste and have to remind myself that it is just as wasteful to eat leftovers if I'm not hungry as it is to bin it :)

Re exercise I have found it easier not to set a routine... That way I can't fail and give up on it. I fit a good walk or 30 min yoga session in when I can. I also try and hold a plank position for a minute a few times a week ( build up to that minute :) )

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Post by Octavia » Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:46 am

Thanks so much, worth and Soprano! I’m feeling a bit guilty for whining, when I have so much to be grateful for. Eg. Working at home most days, I can catch up on sleep when I need to, so I’m not zombing around going ‘I’m so tired, I’m so tired,’ like I was a year ago.

That is good advice, Soprano - not to have a routine, then you can’t fail at it! I need to get into a mentality of being able to recognise when I CAN take a short break, and just do a bit of random exercise. Sometimes I do get into a habit of doing a mini routine every time I go to the bathroom, or whenever I see myself in the mirror! I do a little routine of side bends and squats. But my trouble is that busyness takes away the mental capacity to remember these things. That’s my challenge: I get so focussed on finishing my work that I don’t care about anything else. So I need to get into a new mindset where a bad mood and busyness become actual cues for little exercise breaks! This could be quite transformative for me. Yes, I am thinking that I could do this.

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Post by Octavia » Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:49 pm

Today’s fodder.
Breakfast: Two small pieces of toast, one with marmite, the other with peanut butter.
lunch (while travelling) portion of wholemeal baguette with cheese
Apple and blackcurrant fruit juice
Dinner: prawn stir fry with lots of veggies, glass of white wine
A banana and later, apple with glass of milk

Exercise: just walking - maybe 30’ - some of it carrying heavy shopping! Does that count as weight lifting?

Oh Lord I can’t stop buying clothes. My interest in style comes and goes, sometimes I feel like it’s really important, and then I get fed up with the whole thing. I think what drives me is the memory of those rare occasions when I’ve actually nailed it, ie. have worn the right things for the circumstances, the weather, and my body.... and it makes a massive difference to how I feel. This has happened about twice in my entire life. :lol:

I spent some time experimenting with clothes tonight, forming outfits, and it was good fun. I like those blogs about ‘shopping your wardrobe’. I probably do have enough now...I should stop buying stuff and focus on actually wearing it.

Sometimes I think I’m avenging my teenage self, who had no idea how to cope with her shape and size, and didn’t have the resources to experiment. I was sooooo frumpy and sad.

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Post by lpearlmom » Fri Sep 21, 2018 5:45 am

I like the idea of no set routine too. I’ve been following this 3 month training regime which I really like but I just do the next workout whenever my next free day is. So I use the structure of what to do but I just do it when I can.

Can you come teach me how to shop my closet? Tend to wear jeans everyday! 😱 I should probably go shopping but my kids are always using up our wardrobe budget.
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Post by Octavia » Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:42 pm

This idea is taking root: not trying to have an exercise routine. Thanks for your input, Linda! I was moaning to a colleague about how a ‘tidal wave’ of duty and distraction flattens my ‘fragile sandcastle’ of self-determination (dramatic, moi???😂) ie. exercise plans. Then I realised, this is what they call ‘learned helplessness’. Was reading about it in Martha Beck’s book, The 4-day win. Learned helplessness is when you believe that nothing you do makes a difference, so you stop trying. I am guilty of this! :oops: But as I’ve learned from No S, one can build new habits, even in the face of massive adversity (ie. choc addiction etc.!) With No S I’ve learned moderation and, more recently, an end to black and white thinking (on the wagon, off the wagon....). I get back to N days when I can. So maybe I can get back to exercise when I can, in a slightly random way.

The thing is, to go from knowing stuff to activating it. But it took me a while to get that with my eating, too.

Martha Beck’s book is interesting, though there is this big hypothesis that your eating won’t change till your lifestyle does. Here’s a phrase I found myself both nodding and shaking my head to:
‘...most overweight people make the mistake of trying to implement major changes in diet and exercise patterns while ignoring the pressures they’re feeling in other areas of their lives. This is like trying to learn meditation while sitting on a hot stove burner. Until the overall conditions of your life are gratifying enough to be enjoyable, you’ll have nothing to support better eating and exercise habits, and those habits will never form.’ (p.155-156)

To people who argue that they can’t make such changes (and turn their ‘rat cage’ into a ‘rat park’, as rat-fatness researchers would put it), Martha says think again, think harder. But I’ve been thinking hard for the last 30 years how to get more autonomy and gratification into my life...and yes I’ve gradually fought for and won more freedom, but it’s been a long journey and I’m not there yet. I’ve learned through No S and Gillian Riley that life difficulties and feelings of entrapment are CUES for eating, rather than REASONS. No S can work with the most entrapped lifestyle, maybe that’s why it’s so powerful.

Anyway, what I’ve taken away from Martha Beck’s book is that I still need to keep trying to fight for more freedom and fun, but I’m not prepared to connect these issues to my eating habits. Well, I know there will always be SOME connection, but it’s not a case of all or nothing. In fact, Martha’s statement is quite black-and-white - one thing she warns dieters about!

Hey Linda, I still wear jeans most days myself, though one recent ‘shop your wardrobe’ change I made was to swap to an old denim skirt! This was worn with ankle boots (radical!) and no tights, but a healthy dose of leg exfoliation/tan. The top was more challenging, as long tops don’t go so well with a skirt, but I just fiddled around till I found something of the right bagginess/tightness.

This is my news. Oh, weight has gone up a bit again. Need to get more good N days under my belt, without a string of parties!

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Post by oolala53 » Fri Sep 28, 2018 4:15 am

So interesting that I happened to open your thread today. I'm going through a tough time with eating, but it is definitely true that I still disliked the rest of my life even during my easiest years on No S. I have said that I would be willing to gain back some weight (but not go back to miserable overeating to do it) if I could have a job I liked or better relationships all around. Those haven't happened and though I have relapsed a bit on eating, I have not gained a tremendous amount of weight back, and I'm still in a much better place than I was nearly nine years ago, and I'm still sure there's just about nothing else more regimented I would have been willing to do.
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Post by Octavia » Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:52 am

Hi Oolala, it’s great to hear from you. I didn’t realise I’d been away from my check-in thread for so long. I need to get current.

It is fascinating, the connection between our lifestyles and our eating. To disconnect the two is a big challenge. At least No S is compatible with certain outside forces, ie. weekdays and weekends, and the convention of having three meals a day. But it doesn’t help us in our moments of boredom, our frustration, our long commutes and our late nights. All that stuff just carries on and we just learn not to medicate it with food. Has my own life been better in a general sense since No S? Stopping overeating/gaining weight has removed a source of stress, that’s for sure, but much of the other stress is still there. I still find my days are unbalanced, with work and duties taking up more time than they should. Like you, Oolala, I certainly don’t think I could have stuck to a stricter regime to lose weight; I can’t stay sufficiently motivated and engaged with eating plans and self discipline when I’m distracted by the other demands of life.

My weigh has drifted up a bit - I’ve finally started exercising, so I wonder if that is influencing things. I’ve been for a brisk walk/running in intervals for the last 3 days, in the morning. It’s been amazingly enjoyable and I have felt a big boost in energy and mood from it. Having said that, I’ve been more hungry and tired in the late afternoon. Tonight I’m working late, doing something quite demanding, and I’m wondering if it’s sensible to go for my run this morning. But this run is currently my daily treat, and I want to go. It feels like autonomy: the thing I crave most in the world.

Anyway, I’m glad to hear that you feel you’re still in a better place than when you started No S, Oolala. I hope this difficult phase passes. Perhaps it’s inevitable that No S habits occasionally fail us, and those old, powerful habits get on top again for a while. The old habits certainly don’t die, do they? They are built into our DNA. Just last night, after a fairly nice and successful day, I was overwhelmed with hunger at 6pm....dinner delayed for return of DH....I demolished an unplanned glass of wine, a small bag of Doritos and some garlic bread. It all happened very fast. Tried to compensate a little by having a smaller dinner, but it was definitely a fail! One that I didn’t see coming.

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Post by automatedeating » Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:35 am

Octavia - I greatly enjoyed reading through your last few posts!

I kind of love that you enjoy clothes. It's a fun vice to have in a friend. :-)

And I love your recent enjoyment/strategy for exercise!

Your point about not being able to be stricter than we already are is so spot-on. My goodness, I have to juggle a jillion responsibilities in my life, and NoS gives me such a straight-forward approach to dealing with fueling my body!
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3; 8/14-24.5; 5/15-26.2; 1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6; 8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9; 3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8; 1/19-23.4; 2/19-22.7; 3/19-22.1

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Post by Octavia » Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:27 pm

Hi Auto! Thanks for your kind words! Yes, clothes are definitely a vice for me! Not the only vice, I hasten to add. Today my chocolate addiction reared its ugly head, and I nearly had a repeat of the bathroom fainting incident. Someone had given me a pack of absolutely delicious, top quality chocolate biscuits. I got on a train at lunchtime feeling hungry, thinking I’d have lunch as soon as a I got home. Then I remembered the biscuits in my bag. It being an S day etc. etc., I tucked in. And couldn’t stop. By late afternoon, I had had no lunch but had eaten five of these large biscuits. I was catatonic, bloated, and had tummy cramps. Then, in a bizarre repeat of the fainting incident, I had an urge to have a nice warm bath! Like, HELLO????!!! 🙄 Well it made me feel even sleepier, and when I got out I panicked for a moment, thinking I was going to faint again. Fortunately I didn’t. So... I am still recovering from my biscuit binge. DH is cooking a favourite dinner even as I write, but I’ve warned him that I might not be able to eat. I’m pretty sure my body is longing for some proper nutrition though.

So, my feelings about myself today: what an idiot! Maybe in the pre No S days, I could have eaten five big cookies for lunch, but not now. I have become more delicate. I MUST learn from this and move forward. I feel that this weekend, I haven’t really treated myself at all - just grabbed treat foods because I can. This is a sign of lack of organisation due to tiredness, I think. It’s been a really busy working weekend.

We’re going to the cinema tonight. Probably my appetite for chocolate will come bounding back the minute I see all the money-wasting stodge on sale! But I’m not having any, no way!🙂

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Post by Octavia » Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:09 pm

Glad to be on an N day. Have eaten moderately so far, but am in slight danger, as dinner has been delayed till 7.30 and it’s 5 o’clock now, and I’m hungry....even after my ‘Fibre Supplement’ systemic snack, the afternoon banana!

Pleased that I’ve been for a run, as I had to delay it till afternoon, meaning there was a strong chance I wouldn’t go. But I did. Walked for 10’, ran for 12’, walked for 10’. (It seems so pathetic. And yet, how different it is from doing nothing.) I’m wondering if I can try to use the No S routine to help me do my runs on weekdays, and rest on S days. It would fit in nicely. I suppose this will all depend on other commitments, but if I want to make it a habit, I’ll have to go that extra mile, forcing it to work even if it’s crazily inconvenient.

Not much else to report, No S wise.

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Post by Soprano » Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:23 pm

Not at all pathetic well done on getting up and moving :)

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Post by automatedeating » Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:17 pm

I definitely keep my exercise commitments for weekdays and don't require anything of myself on S Days. Sometimes I am very active anyway on the weekends, but try not to feel guilty on my super slothful weekends. :-) I usually figure I truly needed the rest.
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3; 8/14-24.5; 5/15-26.2; 1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6; 8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9; 3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8; 1/19-23.4; 2/19-22.7; 3/19-22.1

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Post by Octavia » Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:11 pm

Thanks Auto and Soprano! My exercising lapsed later this week when things got too busy. It’s so frustrating. But I have some days when I am literally out all day and don’t get home till almost midnight. Hopefully next week will be better!
The low weight I reported a while ago turned out to be a blip! Dammit! I’ve gone back up. Progress is so slow. But I’m sticking at it, doing the vanilla routine. I do trust that the scale will shift again when it’s ready! I can say that I have definitely lost 10lb in 10 months, though. And I’m not showing any signs of putting it back on or rebelling against No S. So I guess even if I don’t lose any more, I’ve achieved something really worthwhile. I do feel a lot better about how I look and how I’m feeding myself.

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Post by automatedeating » Sat Oct 13, 2018 2:58 am

We are in this for the long haul, so maintenance is a victory, contentment is a thrill, and self-confidence is the cherry on top!
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8/13-26.3; 8/14-24.5; 5/15-26.2; 1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6; 8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9; 3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8; 1/19-23.4; 2/19-22.7; 3/19-22.1

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Post by ladybird30 » Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:05 am

automatedeating wrote:We are in this for the long haul, so maintenance is a victory, contentment is a thrill, and self-confidence is the cherry on top!
Yes.
Three meals a day - not too little not too much, but just right

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Post by Soprano » Sat Oct 13, 2018 6:59 am

Wow Octavia you have come a long way. My losses have been slow too and certainly at points the scales have gone up down up around a certain weight and then headed down again. The best thing is in 7 months I've learnt to eat normally without bingeing and feel I've got everything under control without having to exert willpower. :)

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Post by Octavia » Sun Oct 14, 2018 2:57 pm

That’s brilliant, Soprano. You’ve done really well yourself! I still have mini-binges at the weekend. But like you, I don’t want to exert willpower as such. instead, I’m going to focus on the idea of listening to that other inner voice - the one Auto was talking about on her thread - that supports moderation and says ‘actually, you’re fine as you are, you don’t need the other chocolate bar.’ Like a gentle, supportive friend.

Ladybird, thanks for popping by. And Auto, you’re right, this is a long-haul thing. I’ve not done a year yet. It’s still early days! That’s a good thought. It reminds me that I can become more well-adapted to No S with each passing month, and maybe the best is yet to come.

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Post by Octavia » Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:20 pm

I’m feeling very tired and a bit low today. I had a cold virus throughout September, and it seems to have left me with some sort of sinus trouble. I’m not bunged up, but tender and aching behind the nose and eyes, and I feel sort of dried out. I think there is such a thing as Dry Sinuses. The back of my throat feels very dry, and I’m a bit more tired than usual I think. I should go to the doctor but I don’t want to. My post-breast cancer hypochondria has been sparked off, and I’m afraid I have some sort of sneaky, deep-level health problem brewing, that will tear me away from my family. It’s so stupid.

DD has just requested my Special Fried Rice for dinner, but the idea of going out to buy the ingredients is overwhelming right now, let alone chopping etc.. I’ve been at work so I suppose I am just tired. Hey, maybe I should ask HER to go to the shop!! Hahaha. That would never happen. After an exciting sleepover at her friend’s, she too is flat out!

I will probably revive in a few minutes time. Yes indeed, I think I can feel a little energy returning.

Hmmm. Is there a pattern here? Am I always feeling rough at the weekends? A little unable to cope? Could it be related to the amount of caffeine and sugar I’m putting away? :roll:

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Post by automatedeating » Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:23 pm

I wonder if you are just flat out pushing yourself too hard all the time, from dawn until dusk, every day. Honestly, it sounds like you need a vacation, or at least the freedom to lay on the couch and watch tv all day on Sunday.

I tell my kids I'm not going anywhere or doing anything for them on Sundays. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: Seriously. I would easily have told your Daughter no way. Do you want me to tell her for you? That her mom is tired and overworked and needs to buy a humidifier on Amazon? :lol: :lol:
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3; 8/14-24.5; 5/15-26.2; 1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6; 8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9; 3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8; 1/19-23.4; 2/19-22.7; 3/19-22.1

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Post by Larkspur » Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:02 am

How about promising her Special Fried Rice for later in the week?

Hope you got some rest.

A second vote for the humidifier.

Feel better soon!

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Post by lpearlmom » Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:27 am

Hope you got some rest today. I have trouble saying no to my kids but remember that went I make my needs a priority, I’m being a good role model for them. Fried rice during the weekends will be just as good!
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Post by worth it » Sat Oct 20, 2018 12:10 am

Hi Octavia,

Just stopping by to send some hugs and hope you feel better soon!

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Post by Octavia » Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:10 pm

Helloooo my dears! Thanks so much for the sympathy, Auto, Linda, Worth, and Larkspur! You are angels. I’ve had such a busy week, haven’t had time to check in. Well now, I’m on holiday! I am feeling better, though not entirely clear of the post-viral sinus thing, and what you said has made me realise how tired I’ve been.

I do need to insist that others respect my energy levels and moods. The trouble is, DD gets anxious when I’m not 100% well, and I want to reassure her that all is OK. I probably over-compensate. I know I do!

I’ve just spent a couple of typically excessive S days, and now we are on holiday I worry I will struggle with the N day routine. There will be endless cafes and temptations! I’m frustrated at not managing to lose any more weight for ages - the last couple of times I’ve reported losses, the scale has bounced straight back up again. I still have a long way to go in terms of controlling my addictive urges (to use Gillian Riley’s term). Perhaps over the next few days I will have time to contemplate this and think up some new strategies or outlooks. To be honest, I rarely use weight loss as motivation - it’s like using a unicorn sighting as motivation (to return to an old favourite metaphor of mine...!). I’m more motivated by wanting to stay within the safe boundaries of No S, where weight gain is unlikely. That’s a more realistic outlook for me. And I know how fleeting those exciting dreams of slimness are. They seem strong and inspiring, but they vanish like a puff of smoke when life gets busy or demanding.

I must break off here as my just-shampooed hair is drying into the shape of a small haystack.

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Post by Octavia » Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:04 pm

Right. I’m back. Yes, dreams of slimness...weight loss as motivation...do these things actually help us? I’ve been wondering if Ive forgotten the power of such dreams, and should remind myself; perhaps become more aspirational... stop plodding along with mundane, low-level ambitions. And yet, mere maintenance is actually quite a high-level ambition, isn’t it? Reversing a process that seems inevitable as we get older in a food-abundant society...fighting nature and our environment...yes, maintaining a stable weight is pretty miraculous.

I’m just wondering if I need to uplevel somehow...or even simply vary my routine somehow...in a clever way that won’t backfire. Perhaps I suspect that unless I review my policies from time to time, some natural slippage will occur, a bit of backsliding will creep in under the radar.

As the last year has gone by, I’ve come to accept a certain imperfect level of ‘healing’: that is, I’ve accepted that my addictive urges are generally under control during the week, but are uncontrollable during the weekend. I’ve been happy with this balance because it has lost me some weight. I’ve learned and accepted that addictive urges will never go away, but through No S I can manage them and reduce them a little. I’d like to reduce them some more. while ever they are there, there’s the risk of being overwhelmed by them. So I’d like to heal a bit more. I wonder if this is possible? The only way to reduce urges is to refuse to respond to them. And yet, I spend the whole weekend responding to them. I think I need more inspiration. Affirmations and the like. Oolala passed one onto me, ‘I’ll feel better if I stick to my plan’. So simple and true. Sometimes I say to myself, after acknowledging the cravings, ‘and what would be even better?’ I like that, as it doesn’t force me to deny my cravings, or even to deny that to indulge them would help me in some way! After all, indulging DOES relieve tension. It DOES bring cheer and relief, and sometimes short-term solutions are important. But I try to ask myself what would be even better... and I add, ‘...there is ALWAYS something better.’ It’s just that when you are out with the family and sitting in a cafe/bakery while the others are eating delicious things, in that moment, what can you do to care for yourself? If the sun is shining and the conversation is good, then maybe that’s enough. But if you’re tired and stressed, then it’s not so easy to think of a better way to lift your spirits than to have a croissant.

I will have to do that thing of thinking ahead - looking forward to the next meal. And remembering how badly I want to stay within the No S routine! Perhaps I’ll go and make a motivating list - strategies, affirmations, thoughts!
Last edited by Octavia on Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Octavia » Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:20 pm

Busy family day out, so no time for contemplating my No S strategies. I did really well for most of the day - even had a modest, non-sweet lunch in a renowned tea and cake emporium! Then ironically, stuffed my face with chocolate when we got back to our holiday cottage (after dinner! It wasn’t as if I was hungry!). Big fail for Octavia. But being on holiday does interfere with my habits - I’ve found this before. Perhaps what’s worrying me is that I’m not feeling very motivated. I’m relying on habit too much, and forgetting how to think. How to deal with adversity.

I need to get my head straight. Really value and cherish the weight loss I have achieved. I know it’s not very much, like maybe 10lb, but it has made a big difference to how I look and feel. I’ve gone from being overweight to not being (technically) overweight. But I’m still the same old chocolate-addicted, slothful person. I want to get to the next stage of evolution! And become an energetic, spring lamb type of person, who is too happy and well-occupied to bother with unnecessary snacks. Is this just a pipe dream?

Perhaps I should return to Habitcal, to help polish my habits a little. It was very useful, and I only stopped because I felt I was becoming addicted to compliance in a slightly weird way. I could probably go back and not feel such an automaton this time round. It would also be good to come up with some other habits relating to personal happiness, energy, self-expression.

I’m scared of losing my No S habits. If that happened, what then? My only option would perhaps be to give up work and become a full time exerciser...
:roll:

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Post by Octavia » Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:34 pm

Right, I’ve done something positive - have started Habitcal again. I need that protective framework. Habitcal is motivating, because it narrows all those hundreds of daily choices down to just two - shall I have a fail day or a success day? Only one of those is going to lead to weight loss.

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Post by Soprano » Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:29 am

I treat holidays as S days so you can't fail!

That said I tend to only have 2 meals on holiday but will have snacks and sweet stuff if I want them.

Great idea to return to habitcal if you think the habits are slipping.

You've go this and your loss to date is fantastic, well done

Jx
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Post by Octavia » Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:30 pm

Thanks for your encouraging words, Soprano! I really appreciate it. I’ve managed to have a green day today. Even though I’m on holiday, I feel at a vulnerable point, and I want to consolidate my No S habits.

I’m also not having a super-relaxed, festive time, unfortunately. DD is being a right pain and I just wish I could escape back to work. Oh well.🙄

I did spend a little time thinking about my goals, motivation and strategy today. One thing that I figured out, that has helped me so far, is to think of my chocolate-craving side not as a weak or addicted self, nor as faulty brain wiring, but as an animal - entirely innocent, very strong, and important from an evolutionary point of view (it knows that stuffing as many calories in as possible could help me survive a famine). It must be treated with respect and compassion, without being allowed to make any decisions (if it gets its own way, it then vanishes into thin air, leaving the Human me to pick up the chocolate wrappers and try to carry on running the show....)!

This is just a slight reframing of the standard way of looking at the more ancient and more evolved parts of the overeater’s brain, but somehow I find it significantly more helpful! I have always taken on board Gillian Riley’s idea of being ‘addicted’ to highly palatable foods, but that tends to imply a certain inner conflict/tension and also, the chance that you might eventually overcome this problem/disease. The idea of the inner ‘animal’ is more neutral, yet acknowledges the permanence of the situation. Kathryn Hansen’s theory of faulty brain wiring is also not quite right for me. It isn’t entirely faulty, is it? 🤔

Probably in a couple of days’ time, this will seem like the incoherent and unhelpful ramblings of a lunatic...

Anyway I’m off to the Habitcal now, to mark in a green square!😊

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Post by Octavia » Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:36 pm

...thinking a little more about the inner animal...I think what’s changed in my attitude is the feeling that my cravings are valid, and even good, as they are a sign of some evolutionary advantage. Respecting them more helps me to put them to one side, oddly!

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Post by automatedeating » Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:43 am

Whatever works, Octavia!

Re: dear daughter being a pain -- As you know, I have been frequently frustrated with my older son lately. Well, I took a pic of Challenger12 today, all dressed up in a new outfit he needed for a fundraiser he'll be helping with -- and he had this giant smile, and just looks so beautiful. I felt ripped in two by my love for him and my frequent frustration with his behavior. Parenting!!!!
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8/13-26.3; 8/14-24.5; 5/15-26.2; 1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6; 8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9; 3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8; 1/19-23.4; 2/19-22.7; 3/19-22.1

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Post by Soprano » Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:12 am

Great news re the green day. :)

Interesting thoughts re the chocolate cravings..

One thing that has helped me with sweet cravings is the promise to myself that' if I really want something sweet I can have it and I can have the best! I am therefore happy to walk away from cheaper less satisfying options.

It's quite powerful to give yourself full permission. I rarely crave it now

Jx
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Post by Octavia » Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:22 pm

Full permission - it’s a good concept, Soprano. Recently I’ve been half heartedly wishing my S days would tame themselves, rather than gleefully enjoying my treats as I did in the early days. Perhaps I should try to enjoy them more, and get that feeling back, of full permission.

Auto, thanks for the solidarity. DD is a bit more stable now we’re back home!

Had a green day. Can’t wait to get more N days under my belt!

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Post by automatedeating » Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:20 am

Octavia wrote:Recently I’ve been half heartedly wishing my S days would tame themselves, rather than gleefully enjoying my treats as I did in the early days. Perhaps I should try to enjoy them more, and get that feeling back, of full permission.
Yep, I need to work on this too....well, in general I DO enjoy my S Days, but last weekend sucked.
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3; 8/14-24.5; 5/15-26.2; 1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6; 8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9; 3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8; 1/19-23.4; 2/19-22.7; 3/19-22.1

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Post by Imogen Morley » Tue Oct 30, 2018 7:17 am

S-days can be both a blessing and a curse. I do believe they get tamer with time, as you get used to having a healthy appetite between meals and don't want to miss the fun and pleasure of eating in response to hunger.
One thing that I discovered after several years of NoSing is that: if you don't really want it but eat it anyway, you're soon going to start rummaging the cupboards to find something else. Because you didn't want that particular thing in the first place, you're never going to get any satisfaction from it. And without the happiness hit you'd expected, disappointment will soon kick in, making you eat everything in sight to find some goddamn satisfaction at last. You'll keep eating in the hope that this next treat is the one that gives you what you were looking for. So yeah, as Reinhard said: give yourself the best, what you want most.

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Post by eschano » Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:50 pm

Ooh that is so what happens to me on S days Imogen. Good luck with rediscovering the pleasure of s days Octavia!
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Post by Octavia » Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:01 am

Thanks Imogen, Auto and Eschano!

Oh dear, I think I’ve left a massive post on someone else’s thread. I wrote a huge thing about my phases of No S. But it’s not here! Argh, where did I write it? Maybe it just failed to post.

Apologies to anyone if I left it on your thread....

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Post by eschano » Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:19 am

😂 aims be delighted if you left it on my thread but you haven’t. I hope it posted somewhere as otherwise you lost it
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Post by automatedeating » Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:26 pm

Oh no Octavia! What a bummer if it didn't post!!! Sounds like you had some good insights for yourself.
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Post by Octavia » Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:21 pm

Finally back in the saddle after being too busy to post! :o Actually it's partly that my iPad keeps cutting out, so I keep starting a post then losing it. I'm on my laptop right now though, so this should work...fingers crossed!

Not much to report really, weight has stayed the same for several weeks (or is it months?) at 10 stone 5, and I'm more or less at my one-year anniversary so I've officially lost 10lb, though it could be 11lb, as I was too afraid to weigh myself at the start! :lol:

It seems like a modest amount, but when I compare it to my dieting history (I was always a half-hearted, failing dieter) it feels quite impressive. I've actually never lost that much weight before (except on my very first diet, the Hip & Thigh, back in 1988...) and have certainly never kept it off for more than a few months. I feel so much better for being a bit slimmer. Not quite a whole dress size down, but nearly. Yesterday I wore one of my UK size 12 pencil skirts - so glad I didn't throw it away - and I felt quite narrow! I haven't worn that skirt in some time.

However, today was a fail. I was particularly tired and low. Work has been really stressful, I've been feeling overwhelmed and a bit unwell (the doc confirmed that I have chronic sinusitis, which is making me tired, headachey and a bit nauseous at times, let alone congested and sleepless), and dinner was delayed for one reason or another. Biscuits, cheese pastry sticks and some leftover weekend chocolate got in my mouth. :roll:

Never mind. I'll revive and get back into the swing of it.

Going to check in with a few of my No S friends now, and see how everyone is doing!

And maybe I'll re-do that post about my phases of No S!

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Post by automatedeating » Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:03 am

Octavia, please do re-post the phases of NoS. I'd love to read that!

And sorry about the chronic sinusitis. When I feel like that is when I really want to eat junky comfort food. Tough temptations, not sure why. And add that with your rough day at work and I can see how it'd be easy to end up red.

But I'm delighted to read about your confidence and a bit of pride at your accomplishment! Size 12 pencil - no frumpy there! ;-)
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3; 8/14-24.5; 5/15-26.2; 1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6; 8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9; 3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8; 1/19-23.4; 2/19-22.7; 3/19-22.1

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Post by Soprano » Tue Nov 20, 2018 6:10 am

Well done on your loss to date :)

It's so good to fit into clothes that were too tight before.

Slow and steady really does win the race.

Hope you feel better soon

Jx
Never give up on a dream just because of the time it will take to accomplish it. The time will pass anyway.

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Post by lpearlmom » Tue Nov 20, 2018 7:04 am

Glad to see you back! Yeah for keeping the weight off. We know how rare that is with traditional diets.

You’re doing great and hope things with work Improve.
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Post by ladybird30 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:36 am

Congrats on your one year anniversary. Sounds like you are in a good place at the moment (except for the sinuses).
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Post by Octavia » Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:42 am

Thanks so much for popping by, Auto, Lady, Soprano, Linda! Great to hear from you and thanks for congratulating me! I will definitely re-post my Phases of No S! I'm supposed to be working right now, but had to drop in, as something really struck me just now. Almost every time I've struggled or failed on No S, it's because I have forgotten about the option of DRINKS. When I started, I used fancy drinks all the time to get me from one meal to the next. I lost that dependency after a while, but it's easy to forget that sometimes I really will get genuinely hungry, my blood sugar will drop, I will feel awful. That's when the drinks are for me, essential. A simple glass of juice - how often I just don't think of it. This morning for instance, I had a small but nutritious breakfast with one slice of granary bread, one egg, one large tomato (the last two, fried in a little olive oil). Less than three hours later, after basically wrestling my In Box, I'm feeling really depleted. I'm not exactly craving biscuits or toast, but I know without a doubt that they would make me feel better right now. So I'm having a glass of apple juice and have put a little cream in my coffee. It's helping.

This is one of the obvious aspects of No S, but it's one I often forget. If I'm craving a "treat" I will think of making a hot chocolate, but if I'm feeling hungry and low, I don't think of it. D'uh. And drinks are for me, a major key to success on No S!

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Post by automatedeating » Sun Nov 25, 2018 1:06 am

Good eureka moment for your "rediscovery" of a great tool in your NoS toolbox!
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3; 8/14-24.5; 5/15-26.2; 1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6; 8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9; 3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8; 1/19-23.4; 2/19-22.7; 3/19-22.1

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Post by Imogen Morley » Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:56 am

Congratulations on your anniversary! I too would love to read your insights regarding the phases of NoS.
Your comment on the Thigh&Hip Diet reminded me of A Bit of Fry and Laurie… I think they made a joke about it in one of their skits. Now I have to dig it up or else it will haunt me for the rest of the week!

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Post by Octavia » Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:27 pm

Hi all! It’s been ages since I posted. I’ve been very busy, trying to get ahead with work before Christmas descends, with all its visiting and travelling. I wonder how many people get a genuine Christmas holiday. I’m determined to enjoy it as much as possible, though. In fact a quick google of the topic “dreading Christmas†reminded me that many people have a much harder time than me. I have never truly relished Christmas since my dad died 20 years ago, but my feelings are nothing compared to what many people go through. I still manage to have some moments of child-like cosiness.

Diet-wise, things are much the same. S days are still fairly mad, and I seem to be having about one fail day a week, which isn’t good. I haven’t weighed myself for a while, and I am feeling heavy. Exercise has been sporadic, health up and down, with this sinus thing hanging around. Even now I can feel a nip in my throat that’s making me wonder if I’m due for my THIRD cold of the season!! Hopefully it’s a false alarm! Colds....my nemesis.

Perhaps now is the time to return to my Phases of No S! Here, by popular demand! :lol:
(Have got a new iPad, so hopefully it won’t go dead on me and erase my great prose before I can publish it!!!!)
1. Pre-history. Tried No S a couple of times, but thought it was just a crazy way of moving calories around. I thought it required tons of willpower for no results.
2. Return to No S, with a new breakthrough attitude: realised that I had to do it whether I lost weight or not. My old bargain was not working - ie. I would agree to eating more healthily only as long as I got weight loss in return for my efforts. No weight loss meant no deal: I would eat how I liked. Sticking to No S meant that I was bound to eat more healthily, so I decided to do it.
3. In the early weeks I found it very hard to go without snacks. But I discovered lots of nice drinks to help me through. This felt positive - I was trying things I’d never tried before such as kefir. Also smoothies, juice, milkshakes and hot chocolate. It was all very enjoyable, and to my amazement I did start to lose a little weight after a while.
4. I became less reliant on drinks, and started to be quite adept at tolerating hunger. Lost more weight. Exercise still very sporadic, but at least I felt it was more worth it - I wasn’t cancelling out my runs and walks by overeating. I found I could easily go for a long walk and not even crave a snack afterwards - just a cup of tea or coffee as a Treat! During this time, I felt pleasantly compelled to put a green square in my habitcal.
5. Some time in the summer, 6 or 7 months or so in, I started feeling peculiar about how I was sticking to the diet. I was becoming too determined to avoid snacks. I rarely took NWS days. I felt I was becoming an automaton, and it all felt a bit insane. I decided to stop Habitcal, which had given me a compulsion to succeed, but a compulsion nonetheless. It just didn’t feel right.
6. I made my first modification - Fibre Supplement! Decided to have an apple and a banana every day as snacks. Felt that my digestion had slowed down - though mad S days were also doing some mischief in that area! The mod worked well - I was less hungry and more likely to reach my 5 a day. Eating the fruit with meals would have been more in line with the No S philosophy, but after some experimentation I decided that forcing myself to eat more at meals was not ideal. And I didn’t want to replace protein etc. With fruit.
7. Continued with this phase of imperfection...and my weight loss, not surprisingly, stalled. But I maintained. I had lost between 8 and 10 pounds.
8. Stopped weighing myself, feeling that I may be gaining again, having a fail day every week. Feeling ready for a fresh start, but doubt that I can ever go back to my orthodox vanilla phase. When I’m a bit less busy I’ll figure out how to proceed.

The end.
:)

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Post by Octavia » Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:41 pm

Ha! Well, that old nip in the throat was not a false alarm, and I have just had my third cold of the season, as I feared. Quite a nasty one, and I’ve been feeling generally unwell, anxious about the looming demands of Christmas and keeping up my work commitments, and frustrated as usual about not being able to work regular exercise into my life. I have forced myself out on walks, though! And yes, they’ve made me feel better. The worst thing is sleeping really badly as my nose is bunged up and throat very sore. Oh dear, this is turning into a right grumble fest. Anyway, this is partly why I’ve not been posting much.

But it’s not all negative here at Octavia Towers! My recent phase of getting rather sloppy and unmotivated on No S seems to have come to a natural end, and maybe the regular colds have helped me to re-prioritise feeding myself well. I’d got to a stage where I was trying to save mental energy by having the same meals each week, and they were the quickest, easiest solutions. I’ve rejected that, and am somehow finding the strength to do better - eat more protein and veg. The cold has also decreased my appetite, and I’m finding that if I have breakfast late, I barely need a lunch at all, especially if dinner is early. Now that DD’s almost-daily dance lessons have abated for the Xmas holidays, and DH isn’t complicating things by getting home late, dinner is less of a challenge. Actually, thinking about this, the improvements are all down to outside circumstances, rather than my own determination or willpower. I’m no longer spending my late afternoons and evenings shopping-cooking for her-driving her to dance-driving back-cooking for me (starving, by this point)-driving to fetch her-driving back-cooking for him- bla bla bla. All done in a great hurry of course, to fit in around my own paid work and minimal social life!! No wonder I’m eating a bit better and relying less on pasta.

Anyway, the idea of allowing lunch to be optional is an interesting new development for me, and reflects the fact that a certain motivation to slim down has returned. I am aware, though, that my appetite will come back and my days will become more active again, so it may not last. But you have to work with how things are. I’m glad to say that I’ve gone back down to my lower weight. Still haven’t actually made weight loss progress for months, though. I wonder how I’ll cope with all the Christmas foods - I do wonder whether this year I will have finally learned that overeating chocolate is NOT the best way to experience a sense of luxurious excess and release. Preparing a really fantastic HEALTHY meal is the best way to do that. And being hungry enough to enjoy it.

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Post by ladybird30 » Sat Dec 15, 2018 10:59 pm

Octavia wrote:. Preparing a really fantastic HEALTHY meal is the best way to do that. And being hungry enough to enjoy it.
At this time of year I have found the occasions I have enjoyed the most have combined healthy and delicious foods with the company of beloved friends. I really enjoy the sight of of a table spread with beautiful plates of veg and salads as well as meat dishes. I also enjoy the fact that we are eating well. It helps being in the Southern Hemisphere at this time of year.
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Post by automatedeating » Sat Dec 15, 2018 11:47 pm

Hi Octavia! Thanks for posting your phases of NoS. Somehow I only just saw it today, but very much enjoyed reading it.

And very sorry about - the three colds and the crazy schedule (I totally empathize)!
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3; 8/14-24.5; 5/15-26.2; 1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6; 8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9; 3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8; 1/19-23.4; 2/19-22.7; 3/19-22.1

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Post by Octavia » Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:54 am

Ladybird, that vision of the table spread with lovely salads has inspired me. Great food plus hunger is surely the greatest pleasure!

Auto, I’m glad you enjoyed reading my Phases of No S! It was interesting to summarise it all. I’ve already moved into that slightly dodgy pre-Christmas period where treat foods are making their way into the house, and being busy and a bit stressed and still a bit coldy, I’m often making excuses to indulge. So funny how things change so quickly. Only a few days ago I was almost wondering if I really needed food at all.... :lol:

One of my big challenges now is the same as it was at the start: that I don’t eat enough at meals. I think I developed this habit in my snacking days, in particular after reading Taming the Female Fat Cell by Debra Waterhouse. Her ethos was one of ‘mini meals’ and ‘maxi snacks’ - all adding up to a moderate amount of calories. But of course, most of us don’t snack in that sensible ‘for nutrition only’ manner. We (meaning ‘I ‘) hoover up chocolate bars and tortilla chips, glasses of wine and peanuts. So while I no longer believe in her method (though I don’t doubt her integrity, and I’m sure it’s a great system if you have the willpower not to abuse it) I am still in the habit of eating small meals. This may well be a good thing in some respects - sometimes I have the willpower to work through the hunger, sometimes I don’t really get hungry. But sometimes it backfires. I will often stop eating, or lose interest in the food, as soon as the edge has gone off my hunger - but two hours later I’m feeling uncomfortable, low and tired, and the next meal is three hours away. In my Habitcal days, the compulsion to make it to a green square would have kept me going, and I’d have had a drink of some kind, but nowadays I just think ‘this isn’t working. Eat something, you idiot.’

So....should I train myself to eat more at meals? My small appetite may be helping me in some respects, but it works against me in others. It’s not a black and white thing. I often add an apple to the end of a meal, but that makes no difference in terms of my endurance. I’m talking about maybe adding 200 cals or so to a meal. So for instance, this morning I had a single scrambled egg and a single piece of toast. I could double that AND throw in an apple. It would certainly be interesting to see if this has a positive effect on my willpower throughout the day. I’m having too many little lapses at the moment.

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Post by Soprano » Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:47 am

This really is the worse time of year, Christmas treats and cold weather. Adding more protein to a meal helps me through to the next meal. I'd try 2 eggs and maybe half a slice of toast extra.

Jx
Never give up on a dream just because of the time it will take to accomplish it. The time will pass anyway.

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Post by Octavia » Sun Dec 23, 2018 7:31 pm

You’re right, Soprano. In fact that’s what I did yesterday and today: an extra egg and a little extra toast.

But as you so rightly say, the season of excess is here. I am barely following No S at all! I’m hardly even aware of whether it’s the weekend or not! I really have lost my determination, motivation and good habits, and I’m hoping this is not the start of a real downwards spiral. I must recall all my little tricks. Let’s list them now....
1. Have nice drinks if you need them and don’t worry about the calories.
2. Always be looking forward to your next meal.
3. Focus on the non-weight-related benefits of No S and commit to the plan whether you become slimmer or not. Eg. it helps stop you eating really stupidly, so removes anxiety about future health. It enhances your enjoyment of eating (both healthy foods and treats).
4. Remember the pointlessness of snacking and treating - how they perpetuate cravings and solve nothing.
5. You can start again and engage the No S magic at any point - just by waiting till your next meal.
6. Remember you don’t have to change your beliefs about treats, scorn them, sacrifice them or pretend you don’t want them. You can still fetishise them if you want. But wait till an S day. In fact that makes them even better!

These are just my bits of advice to myself - they may well not be helpful or appropriate for anyone else...but I do need to remember them.

I’ve just done a good task that’s needed doing for literally years - putting away a few years’ worth of diaries which were piled by the bed. As I glanced at them, I saw how tough life was as I struggled with an overwhelming job, looking after my little girl, trying to do calorie counting, getting regular colds, and other challenges. My journal now may be still a bit whiny and full of frustration, but life is so much better. I found a better job, the child is growing up, I stopped calorie counting and found No S, and I did find some creative outlets, mostly evening classes, which led to a better social life. And I exercise more. I feel quite happy tonight- happy and christmassy! It’s funny how I need to journal such a lot to break through my normal state of confusion. But it’s really important for me to keep checking in here, too. It feels indulgent - ‘pootling around on the internet’ - but it maintains vital contact with good habits, health, all that stuff.

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Post by Soprano » Sun Dec 23, 2018 9:25 pm

I must admit my habits are dissolving one by one but really this is the longest holiday at a time of year when we are conditioned to over eat. I'm going with the flow. I figure in 12 months one or two weeks out of habit won't hurt. Come 2nd Jan I'll be back on it and won't weigh until the week after :)

Jx
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Post by Octavia » Sun Dec 23, 2018 10:40 pm

Glad to hear it’s not just me that’s struggling, Soprano! You’re right, we can get back to our good habits when January gets under way.

Oh dear, I have just released toxic fumes into the house by warming up the oven then opening the door to put mince pies in! Lord knows what was in there! Ancient stagnant grease balls etc etc. Thank goodness I realised this before FIL comes for Christmas dinner. I would have killed him with the stench. Must clean oven first thing tomorrow!

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Post by lpearlmom » Tue Dec 25, 2018 6:54 am

Struggling as well. I think I’m taking tomorrow off even though I’m Jewish. ☺ï¸

Good luck with the stove cleaning & we will all get back on track soon!
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Post by Octavia » Tue Dec 25, 2018 8:17 pm

Totally stuffed. Have eaten and drunk all day. Going for an evening walk now, so will hopefully wear a bit off. I made too much food- there were only four of us, why did I bother making 3 puddings? There’s so much left. Will I ever get back to good habits? This year I want to improve my habits, not just limp along doing the bare minimum (though one of the things I most appreciate about No S is the fact that it CAN be done in the most chaotic times of our lives, when there’s nothing in the kitchen but junk food and I’ve barely got the energy to cook a pot noodle...it still works... it still helps...and what other diet can say that?). I don’t want to make the mistake of becoming unrealistic (eg. deciding to cook fresh and healthy low carb dinners every night) and then giving in to WTH. But isn’t it sad that wanting to feed myself healthily and take regular exercise seems like a pipe dream? Doesn’t that speak volumes about the life of a middle-aged working mother-type person? Why is this stuff so difficult? Looking after oneself properly? Gah, I’m feeling down now. Probably had too much to drink.

Maybe I need to get DH on board more. Trouble is, he hates fish and chicken. His idea of a healthy meal is a huge pile of pasta with a veggie sauce. ie. not very high protein. Improving my diet basically boils down to how strong I can be, swimming against that tide of pasta and pizza. I will talk to him while we’re out on our walk.

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