Tips on minimizing hunger?

[Ariel King]

I'm having a slight problem with hunger. I think this is why I used to snack so much in the past - it wasn't just psychological, but physical. These days I am eating meals that, to my mind, are perfectly reasonable - not huge, but sufficient. But most of the time, after each meal, I'm hungry within 2.5 hours. When I eat a more hefty restaurant meal, I can usually make it to 3.5 or 4 hours before the hunger hits. I'm not sure what to do about this. I've heard all the advice about drinking water to stave off hunger, and that your body sometimes mistakes thirst for hunger, but that doesn't seem to work for me. I can drink water till my stomach is physically full, but it doesn't stop the hunger sensation. (In fact all it does is go straight to my bladder and send me to the bathroom in about 30 min - which is why I don't think I'm dehydrated.)

Today for example I had a full can of Progresso minestrone soup (220 calories), a nectarine, roughly 5 Triscuits with hummus (probably about 5 tbsp of hummus total), and about 15 oz of water for lunch. I finished it around 2 and was hungry again by 4:30. And I have several hours, plus a SG routine, to get through before I can have dinner. Last night I had a big plateful of teriyaki pork, vegetables and fried rice (all homemade), got quite full, and was hungry again 3 hours later.

In the short term I can deal with the hunger as just a minor discomfort, but in the long term I'm concerned that the cumulative effect of the hunger might send me into binge mode. Does this make any sense? Has anyone else experienced the problem of the stomach and the head not agreeing on what is "enough" food?

This has always been an issue for me, but I've dealt with it in the past by snacking. I'm not sure what to do now. I also seem to get low blood sugar often (shakiness, headaches, lightheadedness). For anyone with medical instincts, recently I had a health assessment done at work, and they tested my blood sugar. This was in the morning, before I'd eaten anything, and it was 66. That seems pretty low to me. I'm not trying to be a hypochondriac, but I just wondered if this number means anything to someone with a medical background.

Ok, I've rambled on long enough. I should probably do a Google on hypoglycemia instead of looking for free medical advice.

[ClickBeetle]

Eating foods with "bulk" has been key for me. Chickpeas, black beans or any other kind of beans, whole wheat, oatmeal, lentils, etc. all are very filling but not high in calories, and they seem to "stick to your ribs" longer than other foods.

Eating fiber + high protein food in a meal seems to knock back my hunger quite well for several hours.

Also, a bit of fat seems to help me feel satiated with a meal.

Finally, I seem to have adjusted to less & less food as I have followed the diet, & other people seem to report similar adjustments after a week or two.

I get the shakes & lightheadedness from low blood sugar, too, so I sympathize -- hunger is not easy to cope with.

[gwendo]

I have hypoglycemia, and NoS helps me tremendously by keeping me away from sugar during the week. Here's what I do:

1) Have both protein and complex carbohydrates at each meal... I mean plenty of protein. I never eat a breakfast that doesn't involve eggs, meat, and/or cheese as well as bread. Yesterday, I had a pulled pork sandwich for breakfast, and today, I had a spinach and artichoke souffle from Panera (both eggs and cheese in that).

2) Don't be afraid to fill up a big plate at each meal. Portion control can come later, once your blood sugar has stabilized and you've kicked the snacking habit. Many people on these boards eat quite a bit less than I do, it seems, but that's okay with me. Today for lunch I had about 2/3 cup each of macaroni salad, chicken salad and four bean salad and five rosemary crackers. To be honest, it was not quite enough. A couple pieces of cheese would have helped me out.

3) Watch the sugar, even if it's not "sweets." I rarely eat fruit at meals unless it's in the evening, and I don't sweeten my coffee, even though I'm "allowed." Those things cause my blood sugar to spike and make me feel hungry sooner. Even sweet barbecue sauces and salad dressings can throw me off.

4) Realize that hunger is not necessarily an emergency. I don't mean that, if you're experiencing real symptoms of low blood sugar (e.g. dizziness, headache, weakness, shaking), you should ignore them. But if your stomach growls some, that's okay. Maybe eat your next meal a little earlier than you'd planned, but don't freak out. Have a big glass of water or seltzer and stick it out.

Those are the tactics that work for me. Good luck!

[fawnmarie]

Sounds like you need more protein and maybe a little more fat. Both help keep blood sugar stabilized and trigger "saiety" in the brain.


Fawn

[Ariel King]

Thanks all for the excellent ideas. It sounds like the long and the short of it is that I need to put a bit more energy into planning my meals, esp. breakfast and lunch. I eat both of these at work, and have been relying on convenience foods such as frozen dinners for years. I currently have flavored yogurt for breakfast, which is not terrible, but does contain a fair amount of sugar. Maybe I could start doing wholegrain bagels with cheese for breakfast; I'm sure that would stick around longer than the yogurt.

ClickBeetle, the good news is that I love all the foods you mentioned. The bad news is that they are slightly more difficult to take to work than the things I have been bringing. But that doesn't mean I can't do it! I just need to reprioritize a bit. I think the biggest flaw in my diet right now, healthwise, is that it's pretty heavy on refined carbs and I hardly ever eat whole-grain anything. But whole wheat things ARE available at the store, after all, even if they're a bit harder to find, so I'm going to look for them on my grocery trip this weekend. Thanks again.

[JWL]

Ariel, how long have you been doing No-S? I think that our bodies get used to whatever we do to them repeatedly. In my case, I overate for many years. So I was used to that; on those rare days when I didn't overeat, I'd be famished.

But I'm now on my 3rd week of No-S. And to my amazement I'm finding that my body is now pretty much accustomed to eating less. I don't get hungry during the day now; it's like clockwork. When I'm hungry, it's almost close to a mealtime.

Here's a little "Jedi mind trick" that I've used to help deal with the hunger pangs in the short term. When you are feeling hungry, it means that your body is craving fuel. And if you aren't eating, it means that your body must get its fuel from the stored fat reserves. So when you feel hungry, it means you are burning fat! This is good!

Almost makes the hunger pangs pleasurable. Almost.

[Ariel King]

Hi James. I've been doing NoS (formally) only since Monday; this is my first week. For a week or two before this I was doing it rather casually, and not sticking to the rules 100% - so that time doesn't really count. My body is certainly used to eating between meals, so it's not surprising that it would complain vociferously now that that's been eliminated.

Thanks for the encouragement. You aren't the first person to report that his/her body got used to eating less and the hunger subsided. I really hope that happens for me. SOON! As for the Jedi mind trick, I hope hope hope that that is accurate as well. You're probably right - I'll try to start thinking that way. As of now, when I'm hungry I get this nasty little fear in the back of my mind that my body is just lowering its metabolism rather than tapping the fat reserves. But as long as I exercise, that should be almost impossible, right?

[JWL]

Ariel, I'm no expert, but I think that as long as you maintain exercise your metabolism will be fine. My understanding is that metabolism has more to do with exercise than with diet, anyway.

[Ariel King]

No expertise needed - I always appreciate reassurance. Have a great weekend!

[gratefuldeb67]

Dearest Buttercup!
Ariel, I took a good four to five months on the plan before I felt comfortable with reducing my portions... I may have had pretty big portions for those months, but I never gained weight from it... I felt I needed that amount of food to be able to stretch out my mealtimes...
I can't remember being a grazer, but I was really an overeater... Your used to grazing... This can create non-stop hunger... I don't know why.. Maybe we should consult doctor Leptin on that? Who knows.. but one thing which Reinhard has on his homepage, is about how snacking or grazing style eating leads to people "chunking up".. The total calories consumed is just too much... So, maybe you really are hungry and need to have a large salad or something filling for at least one meal...
Also, I don't mean this to sound sarcastic in any way shape or form.. But there really isn't any reason why our bodies shouldn't be "okay" with feeling hungry once in a while... We really aren't starving, and we won't die! If your feeling bad in some other way, which is related to the hunger (ie: faint or on edge) then that's not so great.. But the discomfort of being a little hungry is something that most of us just haven't felt for so long, it challenges our old habit brain, which has become unaccustomed to having our stomachs empty sometimes... I think that whole thing about "keeping the metabolism up" by grazing is a load of bs.. We have all heard it here and there, so naturally, you are probably going to freak out that you're shutting your system down by "not grazing"...
Seriously, your squats alone, are helping you keep up your metabolism by building up muscle mass in a very big muscle group..
As for your post about your blood sugar.... I think it's little on the low side, but like you said, you had no food that morning... I would say just consult a nutritionist...
I agree with FW that the metabolism issue will be much more impacted by your activity level, not your diet...
One thing I noticed, though is that you don't mention breakfast much... Some people swear that if you eat a very light breakfast, by the end of the day, you will pay for it with excessive hunger by dinner time...
Are you eating breakfast? That might help...
Love you little Princess!
Peace,
Deb

[Rumba]

Just in case it might help you, I'll add my experience.
It is easy for me to go 7 or 8 hours between meals if I make the meal a plateful of:
high quality protein-a substantial serving (eggs, chicken, fish, beef, or pork.)
plus
complex carbohydrates in the form of vegetables and salads
and optionally
a very small amount of fruit, no more than two or three strawberries, for instance.

No refined carbohydrates, not even whole wheat things, and certainly nothing with sugar in it. And no full serving of fruit, either.

If I include bread, pasta, rice, potato, oatmeal, cereal, bagel, tortillas, crackers, or any other starchy food whether whole wheat or not, or a full serving of fruit, the time until my next genuine hunger will be shorter.

One more tip: it took me a little while to start distinguishing what was real hunger. I developed the rule of thumb that if a full healthy meal did not sound good to me--then it's not hunger. If I'm not ready to prepare a plateful of healthy food, but think I'm just hungry for (you name it-an apple, a piece of bread, a bag of chips, anything other than a full meal)--it's not hunger, it's a craving. Put it off by saying "I can have that on the weekend if I want to."

Of course, your body could be totally different from mine, but it's worth a try to serve yourself a couple of meals similar to this and see what happens:
1 fish fillet 6 oz (baked, no breading)
Asparagus with lemon and butter
Green salad with yummy dressing but no croutons
10-12 blueberries.
Period.

Best of luck to you in finding your own best path to success with No-S.

EDIT: Let me add this applies especially to breakfast, which means that except for eggs for protein, most of my breakfasts are not what we think of as breakfast foods. I love oatmeal with raisins and used to eat it for breakfast often--not any more. There is no law against asparagus and salad for breakfast.

[ClickBeetle]

I developed the rule of thumb that if a full healthy meal did not sound good to me--then it's not hunger. If I'm not ready to prepare a plateful of healthy food, but think I'm just hungry for (you name it-an apple, a piece of bread, a bag of chips, anything other than a full meal)--it's not hunger, it's a craving. Put it off by saying "I can have that on the weekend if I want to."

Totally.

BTW, Ariel, I found that black beans and rice, or chickpea salad (see recipes page) are very easy to take to work in a tupperware.

Those fruit yogurt cups -- I loved them, but now that I have gotten control of my sweet tooth I realize they are, like, industrially sweet. Just one has as much added sugar as the heart and diabetes association people say a person should be eating in a day.

[Ariel King]

Hi Deb, Rumba and Betsy! Thanks for the thoughtful replies.

Deb: I agree that plain old hunger is not an emergency and I have no problem dealing with it. It's the extra effects like shakiness, lightheadedness and headache that I get really sick of. Things like that just make it hard to function and enjoy life. On the breakfast thing, I do eat it, but it's my smallest meal of the day - usually a 8 or 6 oz. yogurt cup, and a cup of coffee with some flavored creamer. Note that it's also my most sugary meal of the day, unfortunately, thanks to the yogurt. I may try to change this.

Rumba: I'm glad the no-grain meals work for you, but they sound a little daunting to me. I may try it for a couple of meals, but long-term doing w/o grain products would be very difficult for me. I do like your method of discerning real hunger from a craving though; I will give that a try.

Betsy, I know you're right about the yogurt cups. I will make an effort to phase them out, or at least not have them every day. This morning I had a wholewheat bagel with cheese, instead of the yogurt, and am eager to see how long it will last me before I get hungry. (11:45 and counting!) Do you use brown rice with your black beans?

[ClickBeetle]

Even though I am a big fan of whole grains in general, actually, I just use white rice with black beans. I don't care much for brown rice altho I like most other whole grains -- and white rice and black beans is such a classic dish, and the black beans are so incredibly nutritious that it makes up for the rice, I reckon.

[Ariel King]

Yeah, I would have to say that brown rice is my least favorite whole grain as well. Fortunately I LOVE beans, and a lot of other healthy foods as well. I love bean burritos, so I tried (and failed) to find WW tortillas at the store this weekend. oh well...

[Rumba]

...Rumba: I'm glad the no-grain meals work for you, but they sound a little daunting to me. I may try it for a couple of meals, but long-term doing w/o grain products would be very difficult for me...

Hi Ariel,
I think I didn't make myself clear. I don't eat that way all the time. I have pasta, bread, etc. at many meals. But if I want to go 7, 8, 9, 10 hours between meals I can stick to strictly protein/vegetable/salad meals and it makes it easy to do. Seeing this effect on hunger opened up quite a whole new insight for me, and has affected the way I plan my meals depending upon my schedule. My breakfasts and lunches stick closest to the ideal, especially if I know I'll have a long wait until the next meal, and if I really want linguini, I'll have it for my evening meal.

[Ariel King]

Ah! I see that now. Your original post didn't say that you eat all your meals with no grains, but I interpreted it that way. It's good to have a strategy for certain meals when you know the next one is a long way off. If I could find a lunch that would last me even 6 hours, maybe I could do away with the mini-snack that I currently have to eat before exercising. Thanks again for the tip. As soon as I manage to make some tuna salad, I can try just having a big helping of that for lunch, with spinach on top, and see what happens.

[john]

In desperation, I have again searched this site for solutions to my between meal hunger. My difficulty matches exactly the problem described by Ariel King in April 2005. There are only two differences. One, I have been tested and my blood sugar does not vary much from 100. Two, I have a moderate case of Irritable Bowel Syndrome so have to make sure I get enough fiber. I have a very touchy stomach it seems. I don't believe that foods high in protein and fat have much fiber . My interprandial hunger has not changed over the year I have tried to stick to the No S Diet. If I do sneak in a 4th low calorie snack (salad without dressing or oatmeal) I only slightly postpone the hunger and end up also gaining weight and feeling bloated.

I am sorry I did not notice Ariel's post before this late date. Ariel, if you are still with us can you give me progress report? Have you discovered the "holy grail" for minimizing hunger.

[Starla]

Hi, John. I've been doing No S only since Labor Day, so I'm no expert, but for me the key has been including protein in every meal, and it doesn't have to be a lot of protein either. When I first started, I had a bagel for breakfast with a little whipped cream cheese and a banana. I was extremely hungry by lunch time, five hours later, to the point where I had a headache and could think about nothing but food. And that's not the point of No S. I changed the cream cheese to peanut butter, and that did the trick. I am hungry by lunch time, but it's a normal hunger.

For lunch I usually have a big salad and an orange. I include some chopped meat or hard-boiled egg in my salad, and I have no problem making it until supper.

Good luck! I hope you are able to come up with a solution.

[wosnes]

John, what you do eat at your meals? You may have answered this before, but seeing it would be helpful.

[john]

For breakfast I have a cereal mixture of Bran Buds, Go Lean Cereal, Grape Nuts Cereal, raisens, walnuts and Soy Milk, a couple of pieces of cheese and a cup of coffee.

Midmorning and midafternoon lately I have Soymilk with Citrucel to reduce the hunger and not violate the NoS diet.

Lunch is a thick meaty soup or pasta(both in cans), salad, yogurt with applesauce.

I drink the Orange2O I learned about through this website throughout the day.

My supper is whatever my wife provides and it is more substantial than breakfast or lunch.

[Bfrilkins]

You've gotten lots of good tips here already. I'll try to not be redundant. But I really do second the notion of fiber and whole grains.

A yogurt for breakfast is just not enough. That's like what, 200 calories? Even on a weight loss diet, 400-500 calories is what you need for a meal.

I am not a morning person and hate dealing with breakfast, but from experience I've found that breakfast really sets the eating foundation for the day. The best thing I've found is oatmeal with walnuts, dry or fresh fruit mixed in and a little brown sugar. It has a magical combination of staying power (i.e., fighting off hunger) without being heavy.

I know that NO-S is not about counting calories. But you might want to take a peek at how many calories you are consuming per day/per meal and compare to your daily needs (there are plenty of online resources for doing this, such as caloriecount.about.com). It's possible that you're simply eating too few calories per day to avoid the physical symptoms of hunger.

[wosnes]

Well, John, I've been staring and staring at your posts here at a loss as to what to suggest when I remembered something.

Try eliminating the soy milk and replace it with something else -- rice milk or cow's milk or whatever. Some years ago I used soy-based meat products and had feelings like hunger almost immediately after consuming them. It lasted for a long time (like well past the next meal and into the next day). The only time I had these feelings was when I consumed soy products. My own conclusion was that I'm intolerant to soy. I eliminated those and I've never had the problem again. I'm not at all sure that soy products are the wonder foods many think they are.

I see that you're eating a lot of manufactured foods. Manufactured foods are lower in nutrients than real food and cause you to be hungry sooner. Even those "healthy" cereals have not-so-healthy, not-so-real ingredients -- and the Go Lean cereals have soy. I'm with Michael Pollan (and others -- he's not the only one to say this):

1. Don't eat anything that's advertised.
2. Don't eat anything that claims to be healthy.

There are a few exceptions to that -- oatmeal comes to mind. But they're exceptions -- not the rule. Most healthy foods don't advertise than they're healthy.

Pollan also says not to eat anything your great-grandmother wouldn't recognize as food. I'm not sure that great-grandmother would recognize "fiber twigs" (an ingredient in Go Lean) as food.

Here's how I would adapt your meals to suit myself.

Breakfast: Old-fashioned oats with raisins, walnuts, and a pat of butter and milk. Maybe some sweetener (sugar, honey, or maple syrup). A bowl of fruit, too. Maybe eggs, whole grain toast with butter and fruit for a change of pace.

Lunch: Homemade soup with salad or raw vegetables, bread and fruit. Maybe leftovers instead of soup.

Dinner: You don't give us an idea of what your wife cooks, but as long as it's mostly homemade, it's okay.

The cereals, soymilk, canned soup and pasta meals wouldn't get in my grocery cart. Possibly not the applesauce and yogurt, either.

You're right that foods high in protein and fat aren't high in fiber. But you don't need to lower the fiber in your diet by including more protein and fat.

[Dandelion]

Your meals sound like mine, Wosnes. I avoid soy entirely. I am hypothyroid, which of course is a reason to avoid soy, but also since it's usually GM and estrogenic - which the males in my family especially don't need.

You mention butter in oatmeal. I used to wonder how people could say oatmeal 'sticks with them' all morning since I always got hungry sooner when I had oatmeal for breakfast than with anything else (cereal may work the same way, but I never eat it so I can't compare). Then I started fixing it with butter or coconut oil and cream and I didn't get hungry an hour later.

[clarinetgal]

John, I sure empathize with stomach issues. I don't officially have IBS, but I have a touchy stomach, also. I don't have any advice to add, but good luck on finding foods that work for you. Are you lactose intolerant? Is that why you drink soy milk? I'm lactose intolerant, and I seem to do the best with rice or almond milk. Rice milk doesn't taste the best, but it does take on the flavor of whatever you mix it with, so at least you don't have to taste the rice milk. Almond milk is actully not too bad, but it's kind of expensive.
Wosnes, That's VERY interesting what you said about Kashi and soy. Kashi cereal does seem to keep me full for several hours, but now that I know it has soy, I'm not so sure about eating it. One of my younger sisters was diagnosed with breast cancer, and she was told to avoid soy, so that makes me not want to eat it, either.

[bluebunny27]

You should find out what your BMR is ... Basal Metabolic Rate and then you know how many calories you need every day. You may be under eating, or eating things that are not filling you up properly so you are always hungry.

http://walking.about.com/cs/calories/l/blcalcalc.htm

That worked for me.

You can find websites to find out how many calories are in various food. I monitored myself for a few days to get an idea, how many calories I was eating, etc. Then you are set, no need to monitor very closely, you have an idea what a portion is supposed to look like and how many calories there are too.

...

Still hungry ?

Things I do to help fight cravings .... some may
have or have not been mentioned ...


Veggies with few calories :

You can have a big bowl, plain veggies, no dip - - This fills you up and adds almost no calories to your day.

My favorites :

Celery
Carrots
Cucumber
Tomatoes

Some veggies like potatoes have more calories though so be careful - - better to do a bit of research on the internet.


Plain air popped popcorn. I make a few big bags once a month.


A cup of coffee curbs your hunger/craving for a while. Just make sure not to add lots of cream and sugar of course, just a lil' bit of milk with sweet n' low (splenda, equal, sugar, honey etc.) If it's late at night, you can use decaf coffee, or decaf instant coffee so it doesn't affect your sleep.


Water ! - - Drink it ! Alone or with any of the food items I mentioned up there - - This helps a great deal.


Also another solution I've used : Micro-biting.

If you are hungry for cookies - - instead of having the whole box, just have one - - this way you get to taste the cookies and you are not ruining your day by adding 1,500 calories at once, you're just adding 75 - - which you can burn off easily later on by exercising or cutting something else you were supposed to eat so you end up EVEN STEVEN when it comes to the calories.

Cheers !

Marc