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I've Badly Relapsed Into Binging!

 
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Tombo



Joined: 01 May 2018
Posts: 97
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 8:55 pm    Post subject: I've Badly Relapsed Into Binging! Reply with quote

Things have gone bad, I binged at the weekend and again yesterday and NOW JUST NOW TODAY. I have lost control with food again. I hate binging so much but I love chocolate and cake so much. I wish I could stop this.
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sharon227



Joined: 18 May 2018
Posts: 80

PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry you are having a bad time with this. If you think this is emotional eating, you might want to look at Reinhard's advice in the book: "Your most important countermeasure is to recognize the self-destructive element of emotional eating. This is bad stuff. Take it seriously. . . . You're not being nice to yourself by indulging; you're being profoundly mean."

"Try to identify the other non-diet problems that are getting you down and break off tractable chunks to deal with as you can. The smaller the chunks, the easier they are to deal with. If you're left with chunks that still seem overwhelming, it might be time to seek professional help (probably not a bad idea in any case)."
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Tombo



Joined: 01 May 2018
Posts: 97
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sharon227 wrote:
Sorry you are having a bad time with this. If you think this is emotional eating, you might want to look at Reinhard's advice in the book: "Your most important countermeasure is to recognize the self-destructive element of emotional eating. This is bad stuff. Take it seriously. . . . You're not being nice to yourself by indulging; you're being profoundly mean."

"Try to identify the other non-diet problems that are getting you down and break off tractable chunks to deal with as you can. The smaller the chunks, the easier they are to deal with. If you're left with chunks that still seem overwhelming, it might be time to seek professional help (probably not a bad idea in any case)."


Thank you for sharing this Sharon Smile

Today was my birthday so I had a few Ss throughout the day. Tomorrow I will be back to attempting an N day so hopefully it goes better than my last few.
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 9195
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 4:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bingeing was my issue. I know this may sound harsh, but hating the bingeing has to become stronger than your love for chocolate. When I accepted that the pain of bingeing was worse than the pain of tolerating the desire to eat those S's could be, the tide turned. I saw that the only way to prove I hated bingeing was to cut it way back. I didn't expect myself never to do it. I just expected that smart eating would become my default. And it has.

Write down what you like about bingeing. It IS doing something pleasant for you. Be honest. All addictive habits do either provide some pleasure or mask pain, though as time goes on, it pales as the escalation and ensuing discomfort increases. But it will involve giving up some pleasure, even if it's only the pleasure of giving in to the urge.

Write down what you hate about it. Really look at the toll the discomfort of overeating is taking on you physically.

Write down what your reasons are for wanting to avoid that discomfort. Say it in as many ways as you can.

Decide if you do continue, how long you are willing to go on with the habit. Another year? Two years? A decade? Because it's unlikely it will go away on its own.

Consider the discomfort you will have in getting through the hours between meals. Is it really so terrible? Put it in perspective. Is it worse than a toothache? A headache?

Also understand that bewailing the bingeing after doing it is part of the cycle. It actually increases the habit. If you can interrupt any part of the cycle, before, during, or after, it can start to weaken.

You CAN do this. Remember at the toughest moments that we are on your side.
_________________
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 8 years & counting
Age 64
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
Mar/18 22.2

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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ladybird30



Joined: 07 May 2017
Posts: 262

PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Tombo - well done for continuing to hang in there, even if things aren't going perfectly at the moment.

I came to really resent the hold certain foods had on me. I wanted to not want to eat those foods. Practising No S has given me the freedom that I desired.
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TexArk



Joined: 27 Dec 2008
Posts: 729
Location: Foothills of the Ozarks

PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I cannot improve on oolala's post. Print it out and read it daily. I also had to overcome years of bingeing. She is correct and understands the cycle perfectly. Depression, boredom, unhappiness with your life is just exacerbated and not helped by the bingeing. We think it helps in the moment, and then the guilt cycle and the feeling of helplessness and hopelessness takes over. So, yes write down responses to the questions she put out there for you.

Take it one hour at a time, then meal to meal. Chew gum, drink tea, go outside for a walk. I have been at this all my life and last night I had to go to bed early in order to wait for breakfast. Unfortunately we can't quit cold turkey like giving up alcohol or tobacco. But we can overcome and feel so much better about ourselves when we do.

Also, keep in mind if you are suffering clinical depression, you may need medical intervention. Lots of good help on this board, but we are not able to give medical advice.
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Soprano



Joined: 08 Mar 2018
Posts: 191
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry to hear you are having a bad time. Just know this you can overcome it, it is hard at times and won't necessarily disappear overnight. Lots of good advice above.

It's probably especially important that you give yourself permission to eat the cakes and chocolate at the weekends. Plan what you want and when the time comes sit down and really taste every mouthful enjoy it to it's fullest and have as much as your body tells you it wants. If you listen there will come a point when it actually says enough! Stop there with the promise that as it is a n S day you can come back for more anytime. Apply the same principles each time you have something.

There are lots of ways to tackle this. You can do it. We are rooting for you

Jx
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Never give up on a dream just because of the time it will take to accomplish it. The time will pass anyway.

23/03/2018 11st 3.2lb
14/04/2018 10st 13.8lb (BF 37.5%)
13/07/2018 10st. 9.8lb (BF 36.5%)
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 9195
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just want to mention that the eating that I did on weekends was pretty over the top for a long time. That to me did not mean failure. I saw the N days as a tremendous improvement and clung to that. I saw that I had collapsed the events into a smaller "space'; there was still a great variety of binge foods eaten in big amounts, but that was okay. Over time, the variety and magnitude of the events decreased until there were only two particular foods that still had the tremendous pull. Eventually, those were the ones that I decided to purposely eliminate. This did not happen in a few weeks or even months. It wasn't easy to eliminate them but I finally got very clearly that it would be worth the effort/pain. It became different from wishing they would let go of me or resenting that they were still a problem. I accepted that both of those were true, and that I was completely willing to take the difficult steps.

It is not completely peaceful now, but it's peaceful enough. I would be a very unhappy camper if I expected to feel completely carefree about food all the time. I have never learned how to make that happen and I don't even try any more. It's fine as is, at least for now. I have bigger fish to fry. I have never been married, but I compare it to a married person getting to the point where she finally doesn't expect her husband to be any different from how he is. Of course, he can't be overtly cruel or deeply dishonest, but most husbands aren't. I can live with mostly green N days and mostly tame S days.

I have faith that you will find your balance as well.
_________________
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 8 years & counting
Age 64
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
Mar/18 22.2

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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simmstone



Joined: 12 Oct 2010
Posts: 81
Location: TX

PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry to hear that you are having a rough time. The feelings of guilt and worthlessness that follow a binge are difficult, if not impossible, to describe to those who aren't binge eaters. These feelings have plagued me for most of my adult life (until recently) and I greatly sympathize with where you are at.

I do want to offer some of the same support that Oolala provided (she is a huge inspiration for me and wonderful source of wisdom/real talk!) and also give you some hope and let you know that things are much better for me now. And they can get better for you.

Everyone's path to "better" is different. Oolala found great power in choosing the long-term feeling she found in not binge eating over the short term pleasure/long-term guilt of engaging that behavior. My path was not the same, but it has led me to my current state of 'binge free living'.

Here is the progression of events I followed that led me to where I am now (binge free for 2 months - the longest period of abstinence in my adult life). I list these in hopes that you will see that , though recovery can take a long time, subtle, constant improvement is possible.


1) In September of 2011, after years of yo-yo-ing between the same 75 pounds through dieting and binge-eating, I decided that I needed a way of eating that was controlled, but not too diet-y. I found No S and decided it was perfect for someone like me. I was correct, but I wasn't ready yet.

2) I effortlessly made it through 6 weeks of perfect No S compliance. I could stick to the plan during the week and binge all weekend. And still lose weight!! Life was great, right?

3) Eventually, I failed because I treated No S like any other diet - which is to say that, if I broke the rules, I reacted as though the day had gone to hell and ate all of the food that I could since I was going to get 'back on plan' the next day. Instead of a 'red' day, I had 'red' months full of binge eating.

This continued through the better part of the next 7 years. The good news? I eventually set my mind up so that I would rebound from my binges by always coming back to No S. No S became the plan I aspired to, because I knew it was the only thing I could reasonably ever follow now that I had seen the futility of restrictive diets. This subtle mind shift is important, and would help later...

4) I began to recognize that snacks and sweets and seconds were not my biggest food issue - in other words, I didn't have to consciously think about avoiding them all of the time. No S had helped me with that mentality, but it had not helped me stop binge eating (I never 'failed' with a snack... A 'snack' would AWLAYS turn into a binge). Binge eating was my biggest food issue, and I needed additional help to begin thinking about how to never do it again.

5) No S had equipped me with the right physical habits (3 meals per day) to combat binge eating, but, about two years ago, I sought out and found some additional resources for mentally approaching the problem of binge eating.
They are:
- https://www.eatlikeanormalperson.com
- http://brainoverbinge.com/

6) The psychology of these approaches really helped. I began to understand and truly believe that binge eating was simply a very bad habit I had developed and that my perfectionist nature greatly contributed to my 'all or nothing' thinking. I didn't have to binge eat, even if the compulsion screamed that I did. I was choosing to do it.

So I binged less over time, which was a miracle for me.

But I never eliminated it. I did notice that my binges most often occurred on Sundays, before getting back to the 'No S rules' on Mondays. Even though I binged less, I still thought about it quite a bit. I assumed that was just the way it would always be, but I was happy that the problem had lessened over time.

7) [Backstory: In 2015, I got married. I had lived alone for my entire adult life and had been able to engage in my binge eating habit without anyone to mirror it back to me. Marriage, for me, eliminated that possibility.]

Three months ago, after a few years of seeing me 'under control' and engaging in only my occasional weekend binges (remember, engaging in binge eating is only 'normal' or 'under control' to those of us who've done it - normal eaters like my wife are shocked by the abnormality of EVER engaging in it), my wife brought home a book (a manifesto, really) about the basics of the Food Addict's Anonymous program. "I think these things sound a lot like you," she said, with great compassion and no judgement. "I want you to read this."

Whether or not such a thing as 'food addiction' exists is in dispute among experts, but the book laid out all of the program's diagnostic criteria, and read like a story of my history, including:

- Gorging in more food than one can physically tolerate
- Eating to the point of feeling ill
- Going out of your way to obtain certain foods
- Continuing to eat certain foods even if no longer hungry
- Eating in secret, isolation
- Avoiding social interactions, relationships, or functions to spend time eating certain foods.
- Spending significant amount of money on buying certain foods for bingeing purposes

By those criteria, my wife was right. I could be considered a food addict and binge eater.

So what was the program's suggested remedy? Essentially, a 12 step program (similar to alcoholics anonymous) where you admit that you have no control over your addiction and submit to a life of 'food sobriety.' Sobriety on the FAA program limits you to three meals a day weighed and measured in advance, and no flour or sugar, ever again. You are supposed to acknowledge that you are so powerless over your addiction that even one unplanned meal or one piece of cake at a birthday party would ruin your chance at sobriety.

Sounds extreme, right? But the book was filled with testimonials from people who swore that this approach had changed their lives completely. Sure, the rules were strict, but they were 'sober' and trim and the plan worked for them - they were happier than they'd ever been and had not binged in years. This approach obviously worked for them. So was this my fate, too? Did I have to choose either complete abstinence from these 'trigger' foods or immersion in my addiction? Did I really believe that I had no power over my binge eating? If the Food Addict's Anonymous program was the only path to ending my binge eating and I wasn't willing to follow it, was I doomed to binge eat forever? These were weighty questions that I wrestled with as I read the book.

And, then, it happened. Just after finishing the book, I had a powerful epiphany - perhaps the most impactful thought about food that I've ever had in my adult life. I realized that I do not believe that I am powerless over food. I do not believe that I am a food addict. I do not believe that I am doomed to addiction if I have an unplanned meal or snack.

But I fit ALL of the diagnostic criteria. So how could I not be a food addict if I didn't follow their model of treatment for/abstinence from food addiction?

Simple - IF I DON'T WANT TO BE A FOOD ADDICT, THEN I DON'T ACT LIKE A FOOD ADDICT!!

If I don't want to be something, I should be/act like the opposite of the criteria set forth that define it. So simple, yet so powerful! If I don't want to be a food addict, I can choose not to engage in the extreme behaviors that define the diagnostic criteria for food addiction. But if I choose not to engage in those addictive, abnormal eating behaviors, what exactly do I choose to do? After all, it's not enough to say "I am done with abnormal eating behaviors"... you need to also define what 'normal behaviors' are, for you, since you still have to eat.

Well, luckily, I already had a GREAT eating plan for normalcy - No S! And it helped that I'd spent the previous seven years of my life verifying that Wink Remember when I mentioned earlier that taking all of that time to re-frame No S as my 'normal' would be helpful later? Well, all of the ups and downs and experiences and successes and failures had not been in vain - they were necessary to re-frame my habit concepts to ensure success once my mind caught up - and it did... finally! I knew that I did not want to act like an addict, and I had a model of what I did want to act like ( a normal, No S-style eater).

Now, after almost 7 years, I finally realize that following No S doesn't mean that I'll never fail. I most certainly will! But I CAN choose to never 'fail' in such a way that I revert to the diagnostic criteria for food addiction ever again. The feeling that I absolutely do NOT want to be a food addict is the most powerful motivator I have ever encountered for abstaining from my previous food issues. A voice in the back of my mind now says: "You finally have a moderate eating plan that you can follow most of the time. It is okay if you occasionally stray from it, though you feel better when you don't. But if you continue to choose to engage in food-addict-like behaviors when you do fail, then you are, in fact, a food addict. Will the rest of your life be filled with complete rigidity around food as the only antidote to this problem, or can you, simply, be trusted to handle food like you aren't addicted to it? Decide."

And there really isn't a decision... It's quickly become effortless to avoid binge eating.

And that's it. To others, I'm sure this 'epiphany' of mine seems like a 'duh' moment, rather than a moment of clarity. But it took almost 7 years for me to get to where I am now, and I can honestly say that I feel better about the prospect of never binge eating again than I ever have. I now follow No S, as often as possible. Sometimes, I fail. Sometimes, I overeat. But I CAN fail. It's okay to fail! I'm not resolving to never fail again... I'm only resolving to never 'fail' like a food addict again, and all of the 'pressure' of dieting seems totally gone, for me.

I wish you great success in your journey toward binge-free/reduced-binge-eating. Be kind to yourself. Be patient. Believe that you will eventually find the way of viewing this behavior that will make it simple for you to avoid it. It will happen, someday, as long as you keep seeking a resolution.

Best of luck to you.
_________________
"No S is such a good way to combat the randomness, which is often the slide into more and more." - oolala53

Binge-free since 3/18/18
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 9195
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just want to add that I was influenced by reading Jack Trimpey, who was the inspiration for Kathryn Hansen's reversal of her binge/purge habit. He was adamant that a person believe she could absolutely choose not to give in to urges. He called it the voice of the Feast Beast. Not the metaphor that worked for me, but his ideas were stewing around in me before No S gave me the structure I needed.)

No matter what, you basically have to feel that the compulsive overeating is doing something you really don't want to do because it's getting in the way of something else you want even more. I never emphasized it as much out loud, but the desire NOT to be a person caught by food, as well as the miserable consequences of the overeating, was a powerful motivator for me as well, simmstone, though I now view the syndrome differently, less as an addiction than as normal evolutionary drives gone haywire in this food rich environment, since even hunter gatherers will seek out certain foods and gorge on them when they can find them. But you're absolutely right that we don't need to and can choose not to.

And also I know I could not have committed to it from day 1, nor in the first year, probably, though in hindsight, I wish I could have, now also knowing how the effects might show up as my age increases.
But I wouldn't want anyone to use it against themselves before they're ready. In fact, there is more success with problem drinkers (and that is what most people who have been branded alcoholics are) doing a kind of step-down from their drinking until they get to the point they decide the same thing: if I don't want to be a problem drinker because it doesn't go with my identity anymore, I need not to drink to the tune of all those hallmarks. They will often have an ulterior motive as well as developing their identity as a non-drinker. Also less relapsing with believing as you do that they CAN choose not to drink. Most people even in AA do NOT have the urge taken away, but rely on choice and the support of fellowship.

That's what I see this board as.

I hope your newfound peace lasts and spreads. That list has me pondering right now. It has the fragrance of habit theory's bright line for the behavior. It may be the great addendum to No S for S days for me, though in my old age with a reduced appetite, I sometimes choose to eat if no longer hungry.

Also by the way, Dr. Susan Pierce Thomson has turned the no flour/no sugar and three meals a day, weighing and measuring all food and cutting calories to diet level into what looks like a multi-million dollar empire. I predct it will be much like other diet programs, being able to testimonial its way to some success, but not that much more than WW and Jenny Craig. Twenty percent of less would be extremely generous.

Individuals choosing on their own to change problem behaviors are still the most successful cohort of all. And cultures adhering to something very similar to No S and the wise list above is the largest cohort of the exact opposite success rate for slimness, 80% or above.

Poor Tombo has a lot of reading here, but only our illustrious and a few lucky souls seem to have done it from sheer observation and logic. Copious input is often what it takes to counteract the thinking habits that lead of our society in general to be slaves to the overeating forces and the compulsive overeating habit in particular, if it applies. All very doable!
_________________
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 8 years & counting
Age 64
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
Mar/18 22.2

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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ladybird30



Joined: 07 May 2017
Posts: 262

PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2018 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks so much to Simmstone & Oolala for their posts.

My path to not binge eating has also taken many years. I started well before I ever met No S. I decided in the end that although I had the cravings and withdrawal, I would not define myself as a compulsive eater like I did when I was young. Instead, I thought about myself as a person who used food in a particular way under particular circumstances. This took a lot of pressure off myself, and made me be able to be a more open about my eating.

Eventually I decided that a couple of foods would no longer be part of my life, mainly because the immediate effects on my body were greater than I was willing to tolerate. Cleaning up my diet in this way led to a small amount of weight loss and some improvement in my general health.

As my life circumstances improved, and I made a more satisfying life for myself, the urge to binge decreased over the years.

Eventually I decided that even though I wanted to get back to what I consider my normal adult weight for both vanity and health reasons, it would never happen while I was still bingeing. I decided that I would adopt the old overeaters anonymous idea of 3 meals a day & nothing in between. A few weeks later I found NoS.

The first year I tried to do it on my own. This eventually ended with several months of on and off bingeing when I put back the weight I lost, and perhaps a little more. But I never thought of myself as having stopped No S. After that year I joined the forum, and committed to posting weekly. For the last year, I have put not bingeing ahead of any other consideration, included weight loss and sticking strictly to the No S rules. I consider that I have had a very successful year - apparently accountability is a very important motivator for me. I was also prepared to sit through the discomfort of cravings. Somewhere along the line, I made a decision not to use food as a pain killer any more.

My eating is still not "perfect" - I still overeat at meals sometimes. But I am happy to accept that at the moment.

As you can see Tombo, there is more than one path to improving your eating habits. I sincerely hope that you find your way. Ladybird.
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oolala53



Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 9195
Location: San Diego, CA USA

PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2018 3:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The reasoning is all a little different and the steps slightly different (they all seem quite similar to me) but they all support Reinhard's agreement on the Facebook page that the mental side of it is key to actually committing to a structure that involves some clear limits.

I have a feeling you're still feeling very overwhelmed and doubtful that you can make it work. Believe me, I went through those times of even crying while I was finishing the half gallon of ice cream or a pan of brownies (or the batter even before they got baked.) It is not a sign that it can't change.
_________________
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 8 years & counting
Age 64
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
Mar/18 22.2

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.
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friscobob



Joined: 24 Jan 2006
Posts: 86

PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2018 3:48 pm    Post subject: Ways To Prevent Binging Reply with quote

Get up in the morning and first thing drink 4 glasses of water. Many times we think we are hungry when we are really thirsty. Eat your regular No S Diet. If you feel like snacking or binging, do a set of some exercise, such as pushups or squats. or just walk in place, or better yet walk for 10 minutes, and then drink two glasses of water. This way you can properly hydrate yourself, avoid binging or snacking, and get in some exercise. This has worked for me. Give it a try, it can't hurt. The best of luck to you in your weight loss and healthy living.
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