What do YOU mean by sometimes?

Post by **reinhard** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:27 am

"Don't be an idiot" doesn't seem to be enough for everyone...

Anarchy (plus good weekday carryover habits) works fine for me, but I'm prepared to accept that some people might need a little extra guidance.

One idea that's been tossed around is to read "once" (or some similarly small number) for "sometimes," if it's causing problems and you think you can pull it off. But I'm more interested in what people are actually doing than theorizing about it...

navin · Post by **navin** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:41 am

My S-days are probbaly worse than most. Nevertheless, I kind of have a rough guideline about which S-es I end up taking. Generally, if I feel like I'd be deprived without it, then I'll go on and do it. So for me about the only S I indulge in regularly is Sweets. Sometimes I go a little overboard - Saturday breakfast often contains something sugary like cinnamon rolls, pie, or stuff like that. But for me it's been the proper balance... I still have been losing (albeit very slowly) without feeling deprived and tempted to ditch the whole thing.

schmiddtty · Post by **schmiddtty** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:59 am

My S days vary. Sometimes I just don't feel like indulging, so they look very much like my No S days. Then there's weekends like last when I could not stop....which is my problem. It's very hard for me to say I am going to have one treat. Once I do that, it's floodgate time. So for those of you who have been trying to help me problem solve why my weight hasn't budged this could be a contributing factor, although seriously I don't think what I have been doing on weekends should totally negate the N days.

After last weekend, my new plan for S days is as follows. Eat three meals a day. Plan a specific and worthy treat, rather than go with reckless abandon throughout the day eating what comes my way both by accident and by design.

Still working out the Sometimes thing...MJ

JWL · Post by **JWL** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 6:28 am

That's a tough one. There are weeks when I can't wait to get to my S days so I can just eat what I want. That's not so good; I have to draw the line at bingeing though.

More often, and I feel better about it, is when I allow myself one treat, maybe candy or ice cream or a baked good, and then possibly an alcoholic drink or two.

Jammin' Jan · Post by **Jammin' Jan** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:21 pm

Funny you should bring this up, because it's been on my mind recently.

I have been indulging (lightly) in S-day treats on Saturdays, Sundays, and "special" days, like birthdays, Christmas, etc. No bingeing for me, but a snack, a bigger plate of food, a little piece of Christmas chocolate after dinner, etc., has been my regular S-day indulgence.

But before I came here, I was doing the McDougall Program for 5 years and the concept of "Feast Days" was pretty well ingrained in me. We were encouraged to be on-program 90% of the time, with only occasional times off. For me, these were planned special meals, not every weekend.

On the other hand, second helpings and snacks were the norm, so I never felt the need to go off-program very often.

So I continue to think about the idea of "sometimes" and wonder how to incorporate it into my regular eating patterns. I'm looking forward to reading the replies you get from your question.

gratefuldeb67 · Post by **gratefuldeb67** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:51 pm

My general S days deal is normally this... I allow one each of snacks and sweets, and sometimes one of my regular meals becomes infiltrated by sugar, like Nathan mentioned with his cinnamon rolls breakfast (was it cinnamon?? LOL) and I don't have that much structure.. I do nibble, as opposed to plating, at least for the hours pre dinner...That's always a sit down affair..
I don't tend to eat seconds too much these days because it just feels gross, and I usually allow S's on both Saturday and Sunday...
The only S weekend in the whole time I've been here since 2004, which was really off the charts, and which resulted in a gain was when I went into "Raging lunatic off-the-hook" mode (what you might say constitutes "idiot" status.. LOL) and I had three servings of ice cream in one day, and half a cherry pie all by myself! And I think we also had an industrial sized bag of chips...

Even my son Richard doesn't enjoy eating too much of a good thing..
He used to go ballistic with quantity of cookies and candy etc... Then, even once at a party years ago, he had so much soda that he barfed in the car on the way home! (My brothers leather interior Saab which we were borrowing! LOL... Thanks Febreeze!)
These days, if Richie eats too many sweets, he truly protests that he feels like his stomach is weird and he doesn't feel good about it...
One or two servings of something nice on each S day is plenty for us now!

But I don't know Reinhard.. Something feels very very wrong about fooling with S days rules here... I think people need that rule free day and need to simply exercise their free will for a few days a week...
If they gain a little or don't lose, due to a hedonistic orgy of food, they know, in their heart it's the S days.. But I think imposing anything except your vague suggestion of Sometimes, wouldn't be good...
I think we really have to do that work on our own...
Blaming S days for gaining weight (with the exception of said food orgies)
would be similar to a musician who blames the bad music on his instrument, instead of his lack of practice during the week...

Keep S days rules as "Sometimes"!
If everything we did in our lives was structured and preprogrammed up the wazzoo, we would have one boring life!
LOL..
Really..
And resent the structure too, instead of embracing it..
I love reading when people say "I can't wait till Monday, and the structure of N days" again.. It means that people like this system..
Eventually, through liking the structure, it naturally does spill over on it's own... Aaaannnnnd,,,,,
I think an S day free-for-all once in a while is a good reminder.. A reminder of where we were, and how we are doing now, with our habits evolution. I for one, wouldn't have realized how much I have changed if I wasn't allowed to "test the waters" on my own.. And even that weekend when I ate too much was great feedback, which told me that I no longer like that kind of eating.... I guess that's a kind of negative reenforcement, but I never would have experienced it, had my S days been rule restricted...
Thanks for the question.. it's good... Let the newbies keep asking "what does sometimes" mean...
An open ended question like that is good.. Good for long term personal growth...

Peace and Love,
Deb

Sandy · Post by **Sandy** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 5:49 pm

Hello my name is Sandy and I am an Idiot!

S days for me (Sunday) starts off with a big breakfast, 2 eggs, bacon, toast with jelly, lunch and dinner are normal and then after dinner I will eat something like 2 pints of ice cream with cookies, or maybe a half a pan of brownies. Part of me thinks in the same lines of "I'll start again tomorrow". I just keep eating all night. I think all my damage is done in a matter of hours. I do feel better if I don't overdo and I have said every weekend - next weekend I won't do this.

Valentine's day I had quite a bit of chocolate (maybe 10 pieces) - I could have eaten the entire box, but stopped myself. I had eaten so healthy all day and I was sick at night.

gratefuldeb67 · Post by **gratefuldeb67** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 6:22 pm

Idiot's Anonymous huh? LOL..
Just cut your S's in half Sandy!
Start out by cutting them into single events, then work on the size, and continue to monitor your actual enjoyment (or lack therof) from the amount of S's you have already had...
You can do it!!!!!!
Love,

Deb

Sandy · Post by **Sandy** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 8:56 pm

Thanks Deb, well I'm leaving for the weekend - we will see the progress come Monday -- I have been sharing my chocolates, that is new for me...

Shameless Hussey · Post by **Shameless Hussey** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:49 pm

gratefuldeb67 wrote:.. Something feels very very wrong about fooling with S days rules here... I think people need that rule free day and need to simply exercise their free will for a few days a week...
If they gain a little or don't lose, due to a hedonistic orgy of food, they know, in their heart it's the S days.. But I think imposing anything except your vague suggestion of Sometimes, wouldn't be good...
I think we really have to do that work on our own

I say "AMEN!" And I am one who can really overdo it on S days!

S day freedom is what allows me to keep N days very strictly as N days. If my rate of weight loss is a snail's pace because of my exuberant S day eating, so be it. For me, that's the price of a sustainable eating plan.

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 11:04 pm

I eat as much food at meals, of whatever type, as I want - seconds, desert, whatever.

It's snacking that will kill you. If I allow myself to snack more than, say, once a weekend, I'm done.

gratefuldeb67 · Post by **gratefuldeb67** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 11:09 pm

If my rate of weight loss is a snail's pace because of my exuberant S day eating, so be it

I enjoy *your* exuberance Shameless!
Thanks for the "Amen" Sister!

Love,

Deb

carolejo · Post by **carolejo** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 10:33 am

I'm with Shameless and Deb on this one.

I rarely, if ever, go back for SECOND helpings of my main meals anymore, even on the weekend. It just feels gross to stuff myself with so much food at once.

My S days are quite 'heavy' though - I tend to eat quite a lot of sweets and snacky stuff. Even though they seem to be much worse than a lot of people's here, I still find that I eat LESS junk on a weekend (and less in general too) than I used to eat every day before I started NoS. If I have a chocolate bar, I'll have that one chocolate bar and not go back for another 2, or 3, or 4. If I have icecream, I'll serve some out into a bowl (about 1/3 of a pint, usually) eat that and feel satisfied and happy, rather than eating the WHOLE 1 pint tub.

Generally, I probably don't consume any more volume of food on an S day than I do on an N day - it's just that the timing of it all and the quality (nutritionally at least) of the food I eat on an S day is worse. I'll eat sweets instead of fruit. I'll eat crisps as a snack instead of a second sandwich with my meal.

I don't put any restictions on my S days and don't plan to. The little whiney kid inside my head would complain too much if I did, and then my N days would end up totally out of control! Really, the key for me is to be able to enjoy whatever I like, whenever I want to - provided it's on an S day. Then there is no way that I'll feel "hard done by" or deprived at all.

C.

Viscount_s · Post by **Viscount_s** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 10:41 am

I've been lurking for a bit & reading, as C & I have this discussions all the time. As I see it, it boils down to this: this diet is not so much a set of rules to be followed as 'take some responsibility for your actions'. If people are here looking for a quick fix & a cookbook for how you should live your lives, then you're probably in the wrong place.

As such, specifying what someone means by 'sometimes' is (to my mind) a fairly pointless exercise - falling into the trap of telling people how to do stuff, rather than encouraging them to make their own decisions & stick by them. If someone wants to eat chocolate until they're sick of it, then ultimately, that thats their call - and I hope that they feel suficiently sick & guilty that afterwards that - next time - they decide to steer clear of overdoing it!

Just my view, of course.

S

Shameless Hussey · Post by **Shameless Hussey** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 2:30 pm

reinhard wrote: Anarchy (plus good weekday carryover habits) works fine for me...

emphasis added

Giving this more thought -- although I have not, nor do I intend to, add "rules" to S days -- no shame, no blame -- my experience is that I enjoy my S days more, and feel better afterward, if I continue to eat three real meals in addition to all my Ss.

All hail anarchy! YMMV

gratefuldeb67 · Post by **gratefuldeb67** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 2:43 pm

Hi Viscount Stevie~
Good to read your post!

Hope you and CJ are having a nice weekend in Blighty..
Peace and Love,

Deb

schmiddtty · Post by **schmiddtty** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 3:51 pm

I am with Shameless....after a couple rough weekends S-wise, I am going to just make sure I stay with the structure of the 3 meals, and then add whatever S's I want. I am going on the assumption that with 3 decent meals thrown in, the desire for sweets and snacks will be minimal.

My pre-No S days and some of my S days since starting have consisted of most, if not all, of my calories comprised of sugar. I will try this a couple of weekends and report back. MJ

mstevens · Post by **mstevens** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 8:20 pm

I'm tempted by the "once" idea. I am unhappy with my S-day consumption - ideally I'd like to cut it down to one-two snacks a day.

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 12:45 am

Viscount_s, about your post:

This diet clearly emphasizes self control, but there's is more to it than just "be responsible". If that's all it took, this group wouldn't exist.

No-S provides a framework for responsible eating, through habit. Building habit builds self control, and probably the ability to be responsible for ones self in other areas of life.

"Sometimes" for me needs to be enforced still. I need a habit on weekends, too, so I break one rule, but I don't break all of them.

doulachic · Post by **doulachic** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:31 am

I have also been having trouble with S days, not because there is a flaw in the plan, but rather within me!

I simply stuff too much junk food down my gut on the weekends, thus undoing any progress i have made during the week. i have also noticed that this affects me emotionally as well.

think i will try to limit my sweets to mealtimes only....that way i won't be snacking on them all day and eating a whole pan of brownies, but will still be getting my goodies...cause when i think about it, i really only need one or two to satisfy my craving. but for me personally, when given a red light i will barrel through at a hundred and ten!

So maybe just a yellow light...procede, but with caution...will be trying my strategies this weekend and see if it makes a diffenence all the way around.

Post by **reinhard** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:12 pm

Thanks for all your responses!

I'm touched by all the fervent support for keeping "sometimes" nice and vague, but I think it's also clear that some people could use (and are using) a little more. Reading "once" for "sometimes" (at least as a guideline) seems not only a reasonable, but now also a tested alternative (Kevin's behavior, more or less). Obviously you don't have to do this, but it wouldn't be crazy to consider it if you find yourself dissatisfied with the way your S-days are currently working out. At the very least, I'm going to link to this thread from the home page so newbies have a better sense of the range of interpretations. So keep posting here as you accumulate "sometimes" experience.

Another tactic that's been tossed around is to pre-empt S-day binging with reward. This sounds counter intuitive, but I've found that if you proactively get yourself something especially nice every S-day, your appetite will feel appreciated, and will be much less likely to exact revenge by demanding whatever garbage is at hand. Binging is more about self-revenge than pleasure -- pleasure can actually be a tool against it. And, well, it's pleasure. I'm very fond of this tactic.

One final note of caution: I think it's easy to misdiagnose excessive S-days as a problem. What you do on N-days is much, much more important, and (relatively) free and enjoyable S days are critical to that. You only have so much willpower and it goes a lot farther on N-days. Be careful that your S-day worries aren't an excuse to overextend yourself and fail.

Reinhard

joasia · Post by **joasia** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 3:55 pm

I try to keep them sane. I find if I eat everything in sight, I feel bloated and gross. Sometimes I will have a second plate, but then I feel over full. I usually will have whatever dessert I want after dinner. Sometimes I'll have a snacky food like chips. But for the most part I still stick to the 3 a day on s days.

deryck · Post by **deryck** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 4:28 pm

I have taken sometimes to be read as in moderation, something I have always tending to do at weekends anyhow. Having special treats lined up means I can usually control any urge to binge during the day. My bingeing used to occur weekday evenings, controlling this has been my salvation. I was always going to stop tomorrow, but once I had one taste it was very difficult not to continue snacking. This may be in part due to it being easier to hide my eating habits during the week. I find it easier to resist if I don't try to just "have a little". It is all or nothing with me.

To me the No-S diet is about taking control of your eating habits, I could binge at the weekends, but at the moment I feel good about eating normal "healthyish" food in reasonable amounts all the time, with a little extra at the weekends.

JustAnnie · Post by **JustAnnie** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:44 pm

I'm quite sure that some of us have more control over their over eating than others. Some of us (me included) are more like food "addicts" than just over eaters. I'm one of those who would not do well on an "Don't Be an Idiot" S Days. This, coincidentally, is my first official "S" day. I thought long and hard about how I was going to handle my "S" days and came us with this: I'm allowing myself ONE "S"......a sweet, a snack, or a second each "S" Day. Right now I'm happily munching on a bag of 98% fat free popcorn, my "S" choice for today.

FarmerHal · Post by **FarmerHal** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 12:37 am

Well today I completed my first set of 21 days.
I've been playing with my S days. And it looks like the way my sometimes works lately is:

Little to no snacking. It's just not worth it to me anymore. Makes me feel all bloaty. I like to plan a really naughty dessert. Tonight I think I'm going to make oatmeal cookies or something.

I initially was going to be very strict w/myself and only allow myself the option of one S. But I found that to be too strict- almost mentally exhausting. Now most of my S days look like the N days except I have a small snack sometimes and a really nice dessert. I let my brain coast a little. And I do remind myself to not be an idiot.

iu · Post by iu » Sun Feb 25, 2007 1:15 pm

This is so cool, the freedom to have sweets or seconds. I did one of each, I felt privileged and guilt free. I did feel a little dizzy and nauseated after my piece of pie and cookie. Doesn't make me want any today. This is so freeing. The only way someone could really appreciate it is to have come off a ten year Atkins lifestyle. I can now cook like my mom did, and my grandma did. And I love to cook and bake. Again I say,"Thank you thank you thank you!!!"

benjishi · Post by **benjishi** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 6:56 pm

I think people might be missing a bit of importance of S-Days.

In a way, Being Stupid might just be what S-Days are all about.

"UUGHGHHGHGH too much cookie dough.... Feel like death..." is a GREAT motivator to keep it clean on N-Days.

How much easier can an N-Day get, when you can say to yourself "Do I really want to feel how I did last saturday after three boxes of girl scout cookies?"

And then eventually, you get to the point where it's an S-Day and you say "Do I want to feel the way I know I'm going to after an entire roll of thin mints?" And just have two.

Thats when you know you've really got it.

Until then, don't give yourself a hard time about S-Days. They're S DAYS!!! Guilt free! Pass go! Collect $200!

You can't mess this up! so what exactly are you giving yourself a hard time about? Let your mind relax and think happily about food.

If you're giving yourself a hard time about an S-Day, you're giving it to yourself for no reason. You didn't fail, because you couldn't fail. So quit enjoying hating on yourself and relax.

Let your mind ease up some so it's ready to exact discipline on N-Days.

My opinions, anyway

cab54 · Post by **cab54** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 3:08 pm

For me, sometimes means a little square of chocolate (dark) on (S)aturday, and one piece (normal size, previously unknown to me) of dessert. This might mean two cookies or one brownie, or a small piece of pie, or a scoop of ice cream. One.

Oh, and a glass of wine--about 4 oz--with (S)unday dinner.

If I don't keep it to that sort of restriction, I will make 'sometimes' a sugar and chips field day.

rose · Post by **rose** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:11 am

I deliberately treat myself to a delicious little chocolate pastry on saturday afternoon and/or sunday afternoon. If I forgot to go and buy one, and/or the pastry shop is closed, I might go to the supermarket and buy ordinary sweets, but I find they are much less satisfying now, and I tend to overeat on them...
In any case I make sure that I won't have any sweets left on Monday morning. My willpower is quite low when there is chocolate at home.
(I also buy one pastry on saturday, and the other one on sunday, never two at once anymore. Deep sigh. Hopefully at some point I'll be able to go back to more visitor-friendly shopping habits. Don't come to my place unannounced.)
Also I deliberately don't eat my pastry while doing something else. I concentrate on it and I have a mint/liquorice (unsweetened) herbal tea to complement the chocolate. (drooling on computer keyboard while typing this on an N-day).
If I am not at home I have sparkling bottled water instead. It seems I've lost my taste for soda.

On sunday evening I might also deviate from the usual "healthy" meals and have a meal without vegetables (a big plate of pasta with sauce or butter for instance), or skip dinner altogether if I went crazy with the sweets (happens less frequently now).

These are the routine S-days. On special occasions and family gatherings I merely try to avoid severe stomach or liver ache.

pangelsue · Post by **pangelsue** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:24 pm

It has taken me over a year to even approach S Day sanity (slow learner). But I am okay with that. Someone here (wish I remebered who so I could give credit) said to me once, S days are there so we can practice what we are learning on N days. We take the training wheels off and try to pedal on our own. When I took the training wheels off my bikes I fell down for a while and scraped knees and stuff. But I learned and eventually I learned to fly down the street with the wind in my hair. That for me has been the essence and wonder of S day freedom.
S days keep me honest on N days to help me create habits.
S days keep me coming back when I flub up too much. I know I will never find that freedom on any other diet.
S days give me a chance to find out what I feel like when I overindulge like I used to.
S days help me see what motivates my overeating (read "insanity", "go nuts", "mindless", "binging", "check out the size of the treat", "buy just one"etc.
S days give me the democratic option to choose my own path and speed of change without fear of failure.

If one is in prison, there is no choice but to be good because all behavior is stictly monitored. It is only on the outside that excons find out whether they can go straight.
I can live within the confines of N Days but it is only when I finally feel in control of S days, that I have truly learned to control my eating.

In my opinion, this diet is not about the N days. It is about the S days. N days teach habit and S days are for practicing what we have learned. They are offered as a release and a treat (very tricky, Reinhard) but they are really the open book test each week of what we want for our lives. They say, "can I solo yet?"

mschalock · Post by **mschalock** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:46 pm

Sue- Your post was very helpful to me. I like the image of an "open book test" or "taking off the training wheels." So far, I'm not doing too well on the test, but I am learning a lot about myself and my body. Your insights helped clarify some of the benefits of S days (other than that we can eat sweets and seconds!) Thanks so much.
-Monica-

MerryKat · Post by **MerryKat** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:17 am

For me the trick of S days is to have my 3 normal meals at their usual time. These meals will sometimes be odd and not at all nutritionally good, but they are still had at one of my 3 usual eating times.

I find that by doing this I am not so hungry for snacks (my biggest & main downfall) and I can have a small handful of nuts or so on (in the past I would have eaten the bag!) as and when I feel like it, or hubby snacks.

I plan to have a sweet (my second downfall) of some kind both evenings of S days and I go and buy whatever I have been dreaming of in the week before - liquorice / nougat / marzipan dipped in black chocolate / peanut brittle. I find that if I have it after dinner and it is scheduled into the day, the rest of the day I don't even look for sweets.

I have been absent for a few months, but to my surprise even when not actively No S'ing I tend to follow these rules - however every day of the week has been a S day rather than just 2. The sanity of this plan and the ease is what has brought me back (again). This time I am determined not to over complicate the system (I usually over think everything and make even the simplest thing difficult).

No S days RULE!!

LentilBean · Post by **LentilBean** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 3:37 pm

Here's my understanding of "sometimes". It's a feature of NoS that is designed to make it as compatible with real life as possible. For me, I think that means a few things:

1) If I get a hankering for something on a no S day, I delay gratification and "contain" the experience in a safe space. No one is going to take the treat away from me. If I still want it, it'll be there waiting on my next S day. Similarly, the treat isn't going to take over my life. This is a very important thing to experience and sit with.

2) If there is a special occasion that calls for cake, sweets, seconds, alcoholic drinks, I don't have to look and act like a freak just to keep to a diet, and then feel resentful. I don't have to feel anxious leading up to it, wondering, will this be the end of my diet? Will I be able to contain myself? Will people think I'm weird for not having a piece of my kid's B'day cake?

HTH

chris2365 · Post by **chris2365** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 4:55 pm

So I just read about the plan and I'm trying it out. Through calorie budgeting and go-to meals, I've lost 143 pounds since June 2006. But my snacking has really slowed down my progress and my normal eating, even on track, isn't really doing the job anymore. So today is my first N-day and I think this might be the way to go.

I'll have to watch my S-days a bit. Have a few indulgences, but make sure that whatever I do, I truly enjoy it and not get into mindless, rote eating.

BrightAngel · Post by **BrightAngel** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 3:51 pm

I'm very new to this plan.
I fear I could do lots of "diet damage" on an S day,
because bingeing has always been a problem for me.

However, that problem exists for me whether or not I'm "given permission".
I've been successful at weight-loss and maintenance even though my pattern
has always been to "mess up" by overeating every 7 to 10 days or so.
Doing well the other 6 to 9 days, averages out my calories, and still lets me run a calorie deficit.

Lots of current diet plans are now incorporating "Cheat Days" into their plans,
giving the rationale that these splurge days
help the body reset a lowered metabollism that gets reduced by consistent days of low-cal eating.
Is that a true fact? I don't know.
What I DO know is I'm an Idot who can't seem to avoid having them once in a while,
and it's refresing to be told not to feel guilty about it.

Jaymiz · Post by **Jaymiz** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:35 pm

Having been working at "intuitive eating" (IE) for the past 3 years, and JUST starting NoS this week (in addition to my IE practices), I have to say that I've read "sometimes" to mean "moderation"... you can have your snacks/sweets/seconds on the weekend, but just go easy with them... enjoy them!

Since i've not really gotten to my official "S" days, yet, I can tell you only what I've *planned* to do for them... And, that's to still stick with my 3 plates a day (with maybe ONE snack mid-afternoon on both S days), but to allow myself to add sweets (chocolate, Coca-Cola, etc) to my "meals".

I love that this plan allows you to still have your snacks/sweets on the weekends. Before NoS, every weekend was considered a "weak-end" for me, because I couldn't eat as well when all of my family was home and around me. I do so much better at controlling my eating when I"m alone (kids at school, hubby at work). Mind you, i still snacked on sweets during the day (i'm a stay-at-home-mom with both kids in school), but for meal-times, I did okay. Now my weekends are "okay", too! Yay!

OrganicGal · Post by **OrganicGal** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 5:32 pm

I'm only on day 13 of this plan, but I am finding that I treat my S days for the most part as N days...in that I make sure I have my 3 meals, without feeling inflexible if an occasion arrises that means doing things differently.
Also except for practising 'conscious' eating, I am eating any snacks, sweets or seconds that I want. The conscious part is where I take a moment to think about what I want and if I really want it. If so then I go for it, with no guilt or bad feelings whatsoever

I guess that is how I am operating the 'idiot' factor..aka 'sometimes'.

Noturningback · Post by **Noturningback** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 5:37 pm

Jaymiz wrote:Having been working at "intuitive eating" (IE) for the past 3 years, and JUST starting NoS this week (in addition to my IE practices), I have to say that I've read "sometimes" to mean "moderation"... you can have your snacks/sweets/seconds on the weekend, but just go easy with them... enjoy them!

......

The Intuitive eating/nondieting movement has helped me tremendously. To me, it's not too different from No Sing. I guess the difference is that IE would tell you to eat when hungry. For those unfamiliar with IE, you must learn to know true hunger. You can't just have a craving and say " I will have a snack because I'm hungry. Hungry is when your stomach tells you it's truely hungry and not your mind. Jaymiz - correct me if I am wrong.

Anyway - the IE concept can really help those who may struggle with their S days - IMO. Maybe I am wrong but, I think the idea of S Days is not to mindlessly eat what you want but, to listen to your body and indulge yourself. It can be a fine line but, an important one.

Oh - thanks for bumping his thread whomever that was!

blueskighs · Post by **blueskighs** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 4:42 am

Bright Angel,

I guess for me somtimes means:

a few
not all day long

I can still say no on S days
I don't have to say yes to everything that's put before me because it is an S day
I can still be picky picky picky

also for me it has been really helpful to plan my treats ... special ones that I really enjoy ... I usually have a really good idea of how much I will eat or what the limit will be BEFORE I start and then when I am done I use the HABIT I am building on N Days to just get up and go get involved with something else if I am still wanting more...

there are a lot of times I notice during the week, N Days ... I'll be thinking oh this - sweet would be nice or oh that - sweet would be nice but I just keep on going and don't listen ...

I pretty much do that on S days too outside of my planned and somewhat limited sweets,

whew! hope this makes sense to someone,
oh well, if not at least my fingers got some exercise

Blueskighs

BrightAngel · Post by **BrightAngel** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 11:41 am

Blueskighs,
Makes sense to me.
Would love to be able to do it too.

MerryKat · Post by **MerryKat** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:47 pm

Further to my post a few posts up - "sometimes" means to think about what I am about to eat and decide if I actually like the item (often I eat things just because they are there and I pick them up and put them in my mouth with out thinking and I don't enjoy them and when I think about it won't noramlly actually eat it).

I also find that the longer I do vanilla No S (with out my tweaks) Reinhard's "Anarchy (plus good weekday carryover habits)" also works for me. But this has taken me 2 years of tweaking (and mucking things up) to realise and understand and absorb into my brain.

As the No S N days are becoming more instinctive and ingrained I am having to plan my days less.

Jaymiz · Post by **Jaymiz** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 2:15 pm

Noturningback wrote:The Intuitive eating/nondieting movement has helped me tremendously. To me, it's not too different from No Sing. I guess the difference is that IE would tell you to eat when hungry. For those unfamiliar with IE, you must learn to know true hunger. You can't just have a craving and say " I will have a snack because I'm hungry. Hungry is when your stomach tells you it's truely hungry and not your mind. Jaymiz - correct me if I am wrong.

Anyway - the IE concept can really help those who may struggle with their S days - IMO. Maybe I am wrong but, I think the idea of S Days is not to mindlessly eat what you want but, to listen to your body and indulge yourself. It can be a fine line but, an important one.

Nope, you're exactly right, Noturningback! That's exactly what IE teaches. And, it's really helped me. I think I *had* to learn it first, before finding NoS, in order for me to truly understand what S days are supposed to be about.

And, I agree that IE and NoS are *very* similar. I love how Reinhard talks about our N-days habits starting to spill over into our S days, and about our learning to really appreciate our foods instead of just eating for the sake of eating. And, I love how this plan makes you more "mindful" of your eating behaviors. That stuff is ALL in line with what IE teaches. So -- so far, for me -- I'm loving this new way of doing things!

BrightAngel · Post by **BrightAngel** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 10:56 pm

reinhard wrote:"Don't be an idiot"

As part of working not to "be an Idot" on my S day,
I'm re-reading this post.

What's being an Idot?
I'm pretty sure it's when I say to myself,

"Today is an S day, so the laws of nature are suspended...
I can eat rich foods and sweets from dawn till dusk with no negative effects."

Bummer.

DebbiAnn · Post by **DebbiAnn** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:54 am

I am going to make Cookies for My Son in Afganastan on my S days. That way I can send him something from home and also enjoy nibbling on the dough and have a cookie or 2 myself. Hopefully this will get me through the week of N days.

irish · Post by **irish** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 4:24 pm

Just finished reading this thread (I have a hard time with S days) and feel myself to be more like pangelsue and benjishi. Most of you seem to have much more self-control than I do, even though I don't like how I feel after eating 2 Krispy Kreme donuts and icecream & cake at a birthday breakfast. And at my age - 60ish - I'd better catch on to this pretty quick.

kccc · Post by **kccc** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 6:53 pm

irish wrote:Just finished reading this thread (I have a hard time with S days) and feel myself to be more like pangelsue and benjishi. Most of you seem to have much more self-control than I do, even though I don't like how I feel after eating 2 Krispy Kreme donuts and icecream & cake at a birthday breakfast. And at my age - 60ish - I'd better catch on to this pretty quick.

Irish, I've been doing No-S for over a year, and still have trouble with S-days. Some are better than others, and over time, I do think they're getting better as a whole. Still, I often stuff "because I can" and perma-snack through the weekend more than I like. That's the ONE habit I'm particularly working on.

I'm working on it. And the few days where I've successfully managed "No-S at home" show me that it's possible. Several times today I started to get a snack and stopped because "I'm not really hungry."

Each one of those incidents is a step forward. Even though I'm a slow learner in this regard, I AM learning.

Give yourself time. At least, you aren't eating like that EVERY day, right? It used to be more than 2 days a week for me before No-S!

babyprrr · Post by **babyprrr** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 7:39 pm

I've started doing the S days challenge. I get a handful of S treats for every different place I'm at. For example, yesterday I stole one french fry off my friend at the pub, had a rice krispie treat at home, an ice cream at the park, and a two-course dinner for my friend's birthday. It sounds like a lot but they were all teeny portions and it felt quite fun doing a 'challenge'.

Today, I'm not leaving the house so I've just had a slice of chocolate cake for dinner and that's it.

Restricting myself to one S a day makes me feel too restricted and sets me up for bingeing. I find doing the challenge a lot easier and more fun.

Jesseco · Post by **Jesseco** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:01 pm

babyprrr wrote:I've started doing the S days challenge. I get a handful of S treats for every different place I'm at. For example, yesterday I stole one french fry off my friend at the pub, had a rice krispie treat at home, an ice cream at the park, and a two-course dinner for my friend's birthday. It sounds like a lot but they were all teeny portions and it felt quite fun doing a 'challenge'.

Today, I'm not leaving the house so I've just had a slice of chocolate cake for dinner and that's it.

Restricting myself to one S a day makes me feel too restricted and sets me up for bingeing. I find doing the challenge a lot easier and more fun.

This sounds like a great idea! Right now, I've decided to limit myself to one treat (plus a chocolate kiss) per "regular" S-day so that I don't get carried away. But I might have to try your idea. My problem is portion control of sweets.

NoelFigart · Post by **NoelFigart** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 11:32 pm

I've been giving this a lot of thought and I can say after some serious experimentation, this works for me:

My meals on N days are relatively ample. I fill a plate. I don't stack and overfill, but the plate is definitely full.

So, an N day:

Breakfast: Optimized Oatmeal. This stuff is REALLY filling. If I'm feeling really fancy, a veggie omelet.
Lunch: Usually a sandwich (lunchmeat or sometimes natural peanut butter) on whole wheat bread, some cottage cheese (or a cup of soup) and plenty of sliced fruit. But always a full plate.
Dinner: Some starch (Sweet potato, homemade pasta if I'm feeling indulgent, winter squash), meat (often chicken, but I'm a carnivore and like most meats), and steamed veggies (Most often broccoli, but anything green or that sautes well is fine). Sometimes a nice glass of wine if it's a meal that goes well with wine. Again, always a full plate.
Nightcap: Some nights, I might have a glass of wine or small drink while relaxing and talking with family and friends. Not always, but two or three times a week.

The secret to making S-days work for me is to go ahead and have those ample, filling meals, but I'm off the hook otherwise.

Those ample, filling meals really do prevent permasnacking for me. Oh yes, yes, yes, I have treats. I had some Ben and Jerry's this afternoon and it was YUMMY, and I might even have an appletini tonight. I had two plates of food for dinner last night, as well as some chocolate. But I've found that I like having three squares a day. My body likes it and my habits like it. I recognize I don't HAVE to on an S day, but it really does prevent nibbling all day for me.

I am certainly losing weight like this. I'm averaging a pound a week, even with some rather appalling S-days in the beginning.

blueskighs · Post by **blueskighs** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 11:52 pm

BrightAngel,

it is so sad and true ... no matter how much I belieive there will be no negative effects for unlimited indulging ... there always is

dvmccrown, that sounds like such a great idea ... I also think there is something spiritual at work there, I find whenever I am cooking food to share and give with others I don't binge on it, beautiful!

Blueskighs

la_loser · Post by **la_loser** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 6:23 pm

I'm happy to report that my Habitcal for not being an idiot on S days is all green so far. For my own reporting purposes, I consider myself not an idiot if at the end of an S day. . . if I've had Seconds only once; one sweet and one snack.

The Habitcal is called Not_an_Idiot_S_Day and I only mark it if it's a day I marked as S on my Strictly_Speaking_No_S Habitcal.

LA Loser

blueskighs · Post by **blueskighs** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 8:38 pm

laloser,

that is great!

for me, majority of S days I don't feel like I was an idiot, but there have been four of five weekends now where i did overeat.

For me not being an idiot means waking up hungry the next morning!

Blueskighs

gratefuldeb67 · Post by **gratefuldeb67** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 10:49 pm

Good for you LA Loser

That seems like a very sane and enjoyable structure.

Debs

la_loser · Post by **la_loser** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:44 pm

Regarding the recent threads about S Days gone wild, I'm always reminded of something that has stuck with me since I began No S. I realize that there has been a lot of discussion about whether we should try to make any rules for S days. . . but I keep remembering that word that is in the original "14 word No S Diet" . . . SOMETIMES.

So I'm bringing this old thread back to the top regarding this. . . it certainly gives a little more perspective to S days. In the end, we all have to figure it out for ourselves, I guess.

For me, I did figure out that when I ate "old style" on my S days, I felt physically miserable and overstuffed. So although I do allow myself to have treats etc. on S days, I still "think" about what I'm eating so that I can be sure to appreciate and enjoy it--and not eat it just because "I can." That "gluttony" that Reinhard talks about just doesn't seem to work for me anymore! (that's not to say that I've figured out when to say when on chips and queso very well however!)

Still trying to "not be an idiot"!!!

resting52 · Post by **resting52** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 1:27 pm

LA_Loser wrote: I still "think" about what I'm eating so that I can be sure to appreciate and enjoy it--and not eat it just because "I can."

Hey LA,

I'm glad you brought this thread back up. It has helped me to go back and review the process-where I came from, what I have learned. Still figuring out what SOMETIMES means to me, but it seems to keep getting less and less in quantity and more and more in quality.

Resting

Post by **reinhard** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 1:56 pm

LA,

Thanks for bumping this up to the top again!

I'll link to it from the S-days gone wild podcast page.

Your explicit, separate tracking of "S-days gone wild" on the habitcal sounds like a great way of giving "sometimes" some teeth without the clarity muddying vanilla no-s.

Reinhard

gratefuldeb67 · Post by **gratefuldeb67** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 2:44 pm

Yeah I don't know why that 14th word was omitted from the new version.
I liked the "Sometimes" part of the whole equation.
Am I wrong? Was it changed for any reason that I missed and don't know of?
Have a great weekend!

Debs

Post by **reinhard** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 3:13 pm

Deb,

This issue was extensively (and amusingly) discussed here:

http://everydaysystems.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=2784

Reinhard

kccc · Post by **kccc** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 4:01 pm

LA, I've decided to adopt your "not an idiot" habitcal idea. I'll try it a while and see how I like it.

Not sure how I'm going to define the parameters - the kind of rules you're using feel a bit more constrictive to me than I think would be helpful. (Residue of too much dieting in the past...)

So, it may be a total count of S's method - or a "know it when I see it" method! (I do KNOW when I've been an idiot.)

I'm actually not going to worry about what the results look like for a bit - I just want to SEE them, so I have a better idea of the overall pattern. That's a feature of HabitCal I really like.

Thanks!

la_loser · Post by **la_loser** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 5:22 pm

KCCC,

Well, actually, I'd forgotten that I had written about seconds only once, more than one sweet or snack. . . and truthfully, I've been doing the "I know it when I do it" mindset too. If I find myself standing at the chips bag, emptying it out for instance or mostly, if I feel miserable/overstuffed/gluttonous! For me, it's just like "I KNOW--I FEEL IT-PHYSICALLY!"

And just knowing that I have that particular habitcal has been very helpful to me; it's like it keeps me from eating something just because it's there. Why in the world would I want to polish off some stale leftover something just because "I am allowed?"

I was even able to mark myself "not an idiot" on Thanksgiving, even after having two meals with two sides of the family. Luckily we had about six hours between those meals or it could have been tenuous at best!

Last Saturday at a potluck celebration, I actually found myself passing up some things--like there were duplicate dishes made by different people--the old me would have tried each version to see which was best-then gone back for more of that one. I managed to avoid that and those gingerbread cookies that looked so good and were so soft and gooey--really didn't have much flavor, so I didn't finish them. What a concept!

I might not have fared so well if all the international grad students had brought as many delicacies as they usually do; a lot of them were in the middle of finals and succumbed to the "let's go to the deli at the local grocery store and get something fast" idea.

paulrone · Post by **paulrone** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:57 pm

You know, LA_Loser, most of the Sometimesians consider themselves "not an idiot". We would welcome you to the fold - once you learn the secret handshake. Don't worry, we only use it SOMETIMES.

HA! Man, I crack myself up.

la_loser · Post by **la_loser** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 4:21 am

Paulrone, I mean King of the S Day Moderates,

Thanks for the "welcome"to your sect. . . I'd assumed that rather than a handshake, there was a secret password . . . like "Homemade Movie Popcorn" or "Blue Bell" or "Toll House!" Now I'll have to figure our the handshake!

Glad you're back-we often seem to be pretty serious on these boards and you certainly provide some a clever slant to our threads.

Good luck on getting back to the fly fishing-that would be devastating for my husband to lose that. We're going to the White River in the spring for a weekend trout trip. I'm guessing from your location that you'll know what that means!

paulrone · Post by **paulrone** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 2:55 pm

Heavens to Mergatroid! That's one of my favorite places in the whole wide world! As we Ozarks natives say, "That's only a hunnert miles away; not a fer piece a'tall." [translation: That's 100 miles from here, which is not very far.]

la_loser · Post by **la_loser** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 3:36 pm

Paulrone, I knew you'd know the spot. A fly fisherman from Missouri who didn't know about the White River would surely be an imposter!

OK--so I'm off to plan my N day meals for the day to prevent me from messing up! And it won't be long till Saturday--for some Sometimes treats!

Junebug95 · Post by **Junebug95** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:19 pm

I am only 11 days into the program. My N days have been so wonderful. I have BED, and the clarity and freedom the N days have given me have been so amazing. I have only green and yelllows on my Habitcal and I know that is supposed to mean I have succeeded thus far, but the 3 S days I've had have been idiotic. I gained a pound. Anyway, it has triggered the binge monster. I guess I'd just like to know if the Habitcal for S days has helped anyone and if it has resulted in weight loss. I love the freedom of No-S but I really do need to lose a lot of weight for my health.
Thoughts?

Sixty · Post by **Sixty** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 8:04 am

I struggled with S days for a while until I defined "Sometimes" to mean only after 12pm. Mega-sweets with coffee after breakfast was my major problem. After 12pm I can eat whatever I want - so there is no sense of deprivation or restriction. By that time my urge to overdo it is simply gone. Easy to follow and works for me.

mljs · Post by **mljs** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 4:40 pm

I get it now!

'Tried' to do NoS a while back. S-days made me crazy so I quit. I had missed the 'don't be an idiot' part. Felt 'obligated' to snack on junk all day since I couldn't have it during the week. Duh!

Doing this again but learning from others. S days (especially normal Sat/Sun) will be like N days with a bonus or two. Still 3 meals but add a planned dessert/snack.
When I think about what I was doing when I was as my best weight (circa 1976 weight watchers), it was very much like NoS. So I know I can do this!

gingerpie · Post by **gingerpie** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 6:14 pm

Sure you can. Welcome back.😊

Everyday Systems

What do YOU mean by sometimes?

What do YOU mean by sometimes?

S-Days

Re: What do YOU mean by sometimes?

viscount_s

my s days

My First S Weekend

Newbie - really intrigued

Re: What do YOU mean by sometimes?

Re: What do YOU mean by sometimes?

Not_an_Idiot_S_Day --- Habitcal to keep myself honest

SOMETIMES. . .

Re: SOMETIMES. . .

Not an Idiot--yea!

Or sometimes a secret password?

Knew it!

Help!

Don't be an idiot on S days