A recent "during" pic

VanillaGorilla · Post by **VanillaGorilla** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 9:04 am

Figured I've been around these parts long enough I might as well post a pic and show where No S and SG have helped me get to.
My approach to diet is a bit paleo/low carb combined with the No S mentality and I use SG in conjunction with free weight and bodyweight workouts.
I won't be making the cover of any fitness rags anytime soon, but not too bad for an old simian, I guess. lol

david · Post by **david** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 12:22 pm

Looking good, VG.

When I get a bit leaner, I'll look somewhat similar (I think) except I don't have the cool ink.

Personally, I would like it if you posted a bit of your workout and nutrition history including why you do what you do now.

--david

VanillaGorilla · Post by **VanillaGorilla** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 3:53 pm

Thanks, David. I'm hoping to lose a bit more of the bodyfat in the navel area. If I can just stop socializing and enjoying a bit more good food and drink, I might actually get there.

As far as workouts, I am a firm believer in variety these days. When I first started out oh-so many years ago, it was just medium-high rep lifting with moderately heavy barbells and dumbbells. Started out following the workouts in the bodybuilding rags and eventually discovered more of a "weightlifting" approach. Heavier weights, more compound movements, etc.
Once I got online, I found a ton of info and a lot of different things to try. I rediscovered bodyweight calasthenics (Did more than my share when I was in the service) and found a lot more info regarding heavier lifting. Brooks Kubik's Dinosaur Training was a bit of a revalation for me. It introduced me to odd object lifting, etc. I still love that book. Great stuff.
For a lot of years I walked around at a bodyweight of 195-200 lbs. at a height of 5'8". Not bad for a short guy!

I got pretty ill a year or two back and dropped about 30 lbs. in under 90 days. Funny thing is when I was feeling better and returned to working out, I noticed that I felt better carrying a bit less bodyweight. 165 lbs. was a bit lighter than I wanted to be, but 200 lbs. was hell on my lower back after awhile.

I settled in at around a weight of anywhere between 175-185 and am pretty happy with that ballpark. I was able to regain most of my strength from when I weighed 200 lbs., but found I still felt better overall at a lighter weight.

In the pic above from around 2 weeks ago, I weighed in at around 171, so that's not too bad.

I just like to mix up my training nowadays to stave off boredom and try to get a maximum affect from each style. No one system seems to cover it all, so I take the bits from each that work for me and discard the stuff that does not.

As far as nutrition goes, for a lot of years it was basically eat whatever and however much I could. It was all about putting on mass and gaining strength to me. Good food, junk food, I didn't care.

After I got ill and decided to stick at a lower bodyweight, I refined my diet techniques to suit me a bit better. Reduced portions for starters.
After reading up on paleo/low carb, I decided to give that a shot since the more I read, I felt a lower intake of starchy carbs might be what worked for me in conjunction with reduced portions to help me stay at a bw of between 175-185.
So far it has done the trick and I can honestly say I feel better just not ingesting all the starches, sugars and junk. I can eat and feel full, but not like I do not want to move for hours afterwards.

The above picture was also taken after a bit of self-experimentation...I decided to do a week or so of essetially ultra low/no carb just to see what happened. I definitely dropped a few pounds and tightened up a bit doing that. I don't think I could do a carnivore style diet all the time, but flip-flopping that with a paleo approach every few weeks could possibly work for me.
I will try to find a "before" pic to post to see if the difference is actually that noticable. I think it is.

I hope I have actually said something worthwhile in this post and not just droned aimlessly. Apologies in advance if that is the case!

VanillaGorilla · Post by **VanillaGorilla** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 4:05 pm

Here's a "before" pic from a month or two back before I started messing around with the low/no carb experiment.

david · Post by **david** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 1:19 pm

Thanks for the info!

Your experiment definitely leaned you out.

I'm right with you as far as the lower body weight is concerned. My joints are certainly appreciating the weight I've been losing.

I plan to post a pic once I get fully on board with my heavier hammer.

--david

VanillaGorilla · Post by **VanillaGorilla** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 9:10 pm

You're most welcome!

I was pretty satisfied with using the ultra low carb/no carb approach and will probably use it again in a cycle to try and get a bit leaner. In retrospect, I probably should have stuck with it just a bit longer or added only a minute amount of carbs in the form of vegetables, etc. and then no carbed it for a day or two longer following that.

I kind of "fell off the wagon" at the end of September and need to get back on. I will probably go ultra low again for a brief spell. I've had a ton of social engagements lately and haven't exactly practicing moderation.

I'm not falling apart completely, but I do need to tighten it back up a notch or two.

As far as the joints go, I totally agree with you. My joints are happier and so is my lower back. I used to get quite sore quite often in that area when I was heavier.
I was always so paranoid about losing strength when I lost weight. But once I got back on the horse and started training full bore again, I finally got it through my thick skull that:

A- I was probably still a fair amount stronger than your average person just by virtue of working out period

B- That a lot of our strength lies in how strong our tendons are and not just the muscles.

I had read "B" a million times, but it took longer to sink in, I guess. lol

Looking forward to seeing a pic of your results as well!

gratefuldeb67 · Post by **gratefuldeb67** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 10:16 pm

Yay Vanilla Gorilla!!!!!

You are in great shape!!!
Thanks for sharing!

Peace and Love,

Debs

VanillaGorilla · Post by **VanillaGorilla** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 5:42 am

Thanks, Deb!

Post by **reinhard** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 2:17 pm

Wow! Thanks for posting. We're gonna have some buff bods in that before and during gallery.

You're clearly very good at this whole diet/exercise thing, hitting several rather different goals.

No rambling at all.... I'd actually never heard the thing about the tendons, though it makes perfect sense. I'd like to get my hands on the "odd object lifting" book.

One tiny respectful word of caution: self-experimentation is great, but once you hit on a "good enough," there is something to be said for just staying there. Cycling in and out of extreme low carb sounds a little risky to me, if not from a health point of view, then from a habit and routine point of view. But you clearly know what you are doing and I just say this because it's my job to err on the side of caution.

Reinhard

VanillaGorilla · Post by **VanillaGorilla** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 2:57 am

Thank you, Reinhard.

And I do actually agree with what you say about hitting a point of "good enough", believe it or not. I think I just have not quite hit that point yet. Cycling in and out of diets is not something I want to spend the rest of my days doing, for sure. Once I get to that point where I am somewhat satisfied, I will probably tweak my diet along the lines of the paleo type approach I have followed for awhile now. My body doesn't respond well to a ton of starchy carbs, etc. I have learned, so I try to keep them to a minimum. The No S ideals fit in perfectly with any style of eating, imho. It's just a case of learning what our own bodies tolerate. I tend to feel better on meats, vegetables and a small amount of fruit.
When I eat a lot of rice, pastas, etc. I get very sluggish and such.

The "odd object" book ('Dinosaur Training') is available at either www.brookskubik.com or www.superstrengthbooks.com I believe. It's not everyone's cup of tea, but it really fired me up to get back into training after I bought and read it.
It's mostly a weightlifting book, I suppose. But I think it is a great read.

VanillaGorilla · Post by **VanillaGorilla** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 3:03 am

And as a side note...

I learned of the idea of tendon strength from a lot of the old "strongman" courses that were published many, many years ago and also from reading about Olympic lifters.
A lot of the lighter O-lifters are hoisting obscene poundages and while they are obviously very muscular, the more I read the more I leanred there was something else at work besides just muscular strength.

I think that is why a lot of people tend to feel quite strong from SG also. They are building muscle, but I think the tendons get a great workout from your method also.

donnao1965 · Post by **donnao1965** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:15 am

not to sound like a perv, but you have really nice lats..

you look like you bulk up pretty nicely to me..

is no s better than the typical body building diet for you ?

Donna O

MerryKat · Post by **MerryKat** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 8:43 am

Looking good VanillaGorilla

Thank you for sharing the picture - it is another source of inspiration.

VanillaGorilla · Post by **VanillaGorilla** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:21 pm

MerryKat wrote:Looking good VanillaGorilla

Thank you for sharing the picture - it is another source of inspiration.

Thanks very much.

not to sound like a perv, but you have really nice lats..

you look like you bulk up pretty nicely to me..

is no s better than the typical body building diet for you ?

Thank you kindly.

I can pack on a decent amount of size fairly easily when I want to. I'm built a bit more compact, so it's not usually a Herculean effort to put on weight for me.

The No S approach works for what I am aiming for right now which is more of a leaner, athletic look. I'm thinking about trying to put back on a bit more mass over the winter, so then I will have to definitely start eating more often and taking in at least a bit more starchy carbs than I do now. So it'll be a bit more "bodybuilding" oriented eating if I do. As great as No S is, it's definitely not geared towards bulking way, way up. That having been said, I think the principal of keeping the sweets and such out of your diet definitely applies if one wants to put on quality muscle and not just plain ol' weight gain.

I just got home from a long night at work. If this reply doesn't make too much sense just ask me to clarify if needed.

Orvette · Post by **Orvette** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 2:35 pm

Vanillagorilla,

You look mahvellous, dahling! Old man, eh? Not from where I sit!...

I'm so glad you started this thread -- not only to see how great you're looking, but because I'm just considering No-S and am a steadfast believer in a controlled-carb eating plan. There is Type II Diabetes in my family and I've always been very sensitive to sugar and starchy foods. I learned early on that if someone brought in doughnuts to work for breakfast I was way better off having nothing than eating all that sugar with no protein to balance it out. No willpower involved, just didn't want the horrible blood sugar crash that would follow...

So for me, fat is not the enemy - starches and sugar are. I've been trying to figure out what my week of eating would look like with that philosophy in mind but following No-S. I tend to go off plan when I need to taste a dinner roll again or a Bloomin' onion at Outback. Trouble is, because that stuff is contraband, I feel I need to get the most out of my binges...and I do. With No-S I'm hoping I can keep a better lid on bingeing since I'll have two S-days coming each week. How have you done the S-days when you're taking a controlled-carb approach? It will help me to get my mind wrapped around it and get started!

What's really great about the No-S concept is that my best friend won't do low-carb and doesn't have the blood sugar issues that I do, but she likes the No-S idea already, so we could do this together!

VanillaGorilla · Post by **VanillaGorilla** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 6:32 am

Orvette wrote:Vanillagorilla,

You look mahvellous, dahling! Old man, eh? Not from where I sit!...

Thanks very much! I'll just say I'm old enough and leave it at that. LOL

So for me, fat is not the enemy - starches and sugar are. I've been trying to figure out what my week of eating would look like with that philosophy in mind but following No-S. I tend to go off plan when I need to taste a dinner roll again or a Bloomin' onion at Outback. Trouble is, because that stuff is contraband, I feel I need to get the most out of my binges...and I do. With No-S I'm hoping I can keep a better lid on bingeing since I'll have two S-days coming each week. How have you done the S-days when you're taking a controlled-carb approach? It will help me to get my mind wrapped around it and get started!

I don't think too much about the S-Days, in all honesty. As I told somone in another thread, I try not to overanaylze it too much. I treat it like just another day. If I want a pizza, candy or some doughnuts, I just have them and don't take into consideration "how much" I am eating for the day. That having been said...I have found that I can't eat a ton of that stuff anymore. After eating more "paleo", sticking mostly to meats and vegetables, I have found that sugars and starches fill me up very quickly and it's very hard to overindulge. I think if anyone sticks mostly to a lower carb approach, they tend to find out the same thing. The nice part is because of that, I don't have to think too much about it. As long as I get back on my paleo plan on Sundays (start of my work week), I don't get too accustomed to having the starches and sugars. The weekend satisfies me and I am good to go. I'm not sure if that is a great explanation or not, but I am a pretty simple guy and it just makes it easier for me not to get overly stressed about what I do on S-Days.

What's really great about the No-S concept is that my best friend won't do low-carb and doesn't have the blood sugar issues that I do, but she likes the No-S idea already, so we could do this together!

That's great! And it is the beauty of Reinhard's concept, imho...Everyone can follow it and just tailor it to their individual needs or wants.

If I can clarify anything I just babbled on about, please feel free to let me know!

Orvette · Post by **Orvette** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 1:24 am

Vanillagorilla,

Your "babbling" is always insightful and helpful! I think I do tend to overanalyze things, and then I get so tied up in knots that I don't get anything accomplished! Thanks for lending your own approach and experience with No-S. I'll just try it and let the results speak for themselves...I can tailor and tweak from there. Pretty simple.

VanillaGorilla · Post by **VanillaGorilla** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 10:25 am

Thanks. I just keep talking until I figure I'll hit on something that makes some kind of sense.

I think that even with any kind of set "system", modifications are sometimes needed to suit the needs of the individual. There are some basic truths that apply to all of us, but there are situations where a bit of alteration is required.

Someone can give us the tools, but it's up to the individual to figure out how best to use them.