Aristotle

tarantinofan · Post by **tarantinofan** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 1:32 am

For one of my classes this year, we're reading Aristotle's Nicomachean Ethics. I highly recommend the work for those who want to lose weight/think about food in a different way. Has anyone read it? Lately, every time I'm craving a cookie on an N day and about to break No S, I think of what he says about temperance. And I stop myself. It has made me reevaluate my eating habits and made me feel more in control around food. His discussion of temperance is certainly a mind-boggling 6 pages of literature that everyone should check out! The whole work is awesome, but this section (it's in chapter 3 if anyone's interested) definitely struck a chord with me.

In case you guys don't have the time to read it, I'll just note a few highlights that are really cool:

1) He says that people who are self-indulgent eat without actually tasting and instead use their sense of touch, enjoying the act of eating rather than actually distinguishing among flavors. So true! This explains why it is so unnatural to eat quickly since it does not seem right to neglect the sense associated with eating, taste, while exercising our appetite.
2) Eating using our rational principles is the only way to achieve temperance/virtue because this is the one thing that distinguishes humans from animals. I think that's really why No S works: we're able to see how reasonable we're really eating when we only have meals. This also puts the ridiculous diets like the cookie diet, grapefruit diet, cabbage soup diet, etc. into perspective.
3) Eating IS voluntary, which means that straying from the virtue of temperance is a matter of reproach since we all have a choice to act wisely or to act wickedly.
4) He notes that the reason it is hard for the self-indulgent to stay in control around food is because they're used to gratifying their desires, and their habits are off. Thus, their scales of pain are skewed so that a mere lack of constant pleasure is painful. This certainly applies to the gluttony concept that Reinhard has discussed...

DaveMc · Post by **DaveMc** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:33 am

Interesting stuff, ARI, thanks for sharing that! There seems to be a tendency around here to prefer weight-loss advice that's over a thousand years old -- Reinhard often refers to the Bible/Torah, and now you're citing Aristotle (a relative newcomer, but still pretty old).

Of course, you only have to go back half a century to find North Americans who were thinner than we are, but maybe *they* liked these old-school sources of advice, too.

Jammin' Jan · Post by **Jammin' Jan** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 11:53 am

For anyone who wants to pursue this, Aristotle's book is online.

Go here to read it: http://classics.mit.edu/Aristotle/nicom ... 3.iii.html

This is Book 3. Scroll down to about point 10 and continue from there.

wosnes · Post by **wosnes** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:23 pm

DaveMc wrote:There seems to be a tendency around here to prefer weight-loss advice that's over a thousand years old -- Reinhard often refers to the Bible/Torah, and now you're citing Aristotle (a relative newcomer, but still pretty old). Of course, you only have to go back half a century to find North Americans who were thinner than we are, but maybe *they* liked these old-school sources of advice, too.

One of the things I've learned or realized as I've gotten older is that much traditional advice (diet or otherwise) has been around for ages because it works. I think oftentimes when we try to fix something that isn't broken we end up with something broken.

I read an blog entry at zenhabits.com titled A New Relationship with Food. I realized that the only time we think we need a new relationship with food, or anything else, is when the current one isn't working. Our current relationship with food isn't anything like the one we had half a century ago or earlier than that. That relationship worked -- and very few people needed diets or to learn new eating habits.

On the other hand, people who have continued to follow the old-school advice haven't had problems.

Starla · Post by **Starla** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 1:03 pm

I read this in a freshman philosphy class many years ago, but only vaguely remembered it. Thanks for posting this - it's certainly relevant to this group. And thanks, Jammin' Jan, for the link. That will be much easier than digging through old textbooks in the basement.

clarinetgal · Post by **clarinetgal** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 11:33 pm

Very interesting! I'm reading another book that touches briefly on ancient Greek history and on some of the philosphers (Aristotle, Plato, Anaximander, etc...), and I really like some of the things the ancient Greeks had to say.
I'll have to try to read that link when I have more time (after my son goes to bed

).

Kathleen · Post by **Kathleen** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 1:18 am

Last year, I spent an several months listening to Professor Koterski's tapes on Aristotle's Ethics while doing laundry. I also reread the book, which I had read it once in freshman philosophy and once about 15 years ago.

See my tagline below -- What strikes me about dieting is that it is immoderate.

Kathleen

Kathleen · Post by **Kathleen** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 2:11 pm

Kathleen,

It's interesting you mention Aristotle... I've been thinking more and more about him lately (he's now got a mention on the everyday systems home page). I love his emphasis on moderation and "virtue as habit." I haven't yet read his Ethics in their entirety, but I listened to an excellent teaching company course on the subject, and am working up the nerve to plunge into the audiobook (Nadia May sounds like a great reader from the sample).

Ari --
Reinhard posted me what is copied above on February 25th. The Teaching Company tape on Aristitle is by Joseph Koterski. I could not have gotten through Aristotle's Ethics wtihout it. Here's the link to the information on the lectures:

http://www.teach12.com/ttcx/coursedescl ... px?cid=408

I don't have any affiliation with The Teaching Company. As a highly educated stay at home Mom, I would go crazy if I couldn't listen to lectures and podcasts while doing housework and cooking. This was the best course I've heard.

Thanks.
Kathleen

BrightAngel · Post by **BrightAngel** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 3:06 pm

Very interesting comments. However, a Reminder:

We don't ALL share the same values.
Everyone doesn't agree with Aristotle's point of view
of mental=godlike and physical=animal like.

Just a Note from the dark side.

clarinetgal · Post by **clarinetgal** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 4:35 pm

Kathleen, Is there a cost to The Teaching Company? I'm another highly educated stay at home mom who goes nuts sometimes, because she feels like she's not using her mind to its fullest potential.

tarantinofan · Post by **tarantinofan** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 5:42 pm

Kathleen wrote:Ari --
Reinhard posted me what is copied above on February 25th. The Teaching Company tape on Aristitle is by Joseph Koterski. I could not have gotten through Aristotle's Ethics wtihout it. Here's the link to the information on the lectures:

http://www.teach12.com/ttcx/coursedescl ... px?cid=408

I don't have any affiliation with The Teaching Company. As a highly educated stay at home Mom, I would go crazy if I couldn't listen to lectures and podcasts while doing housework and cooking. This was the best course I've heard.

Thanks.
Kathleen

Wow, thanks. Even though I'm taking a lot of courses in school, I think it'd be nice to listen to some of these lectures while I work out. I really want to learn more about art history, and the lectures look really fascinating!

Kathleen · Post by **Kathleen** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 8:30 pm

The Teaching Company has lots and lots of courses, mostly for adults. I had spent quite a lot of money before I figured out that our library carried a lot of the courses. Take a look at www.teach12.com. It is sometimes very boring to be a stay at home Mom, but I didn't want a nanny raising our kids. It was with great pleasure that I met my 15 year old's teachers last night at conferences. She is a standout student and just plain a happy kid. Meanwhile, I'm happy as a stay at home Mom, and part of the reason is that I can enjoy learning through podcasts and courses like those offered by The Teaching Company. (Really, I am not paid by The Teaching Company to say this!)

Of the many courses I have taken, Koterski's course on Aristotle's Ethics was the best.

How did I come to listen to a course on philosophy? Well, I read Kelly Brownell's book Food Fight back in April of 2008. In it, he argued that the obesity epidemic is due to the environment, and his approach is to control the environment. He is the thought leader behind the idea of a tax on soda.

Anyway, I read that book and thought that it might be a good idea to read books that were published before I was born. If the environment was causing the obesity epidemic, I speculated, maybe it was the social environment. I first turned to literature, including looking up "hunger" in an online concordance of Shakespeare's works. I also looked up Biblical references to hunger. I then turned to the Ethics, and it helped me to realize that what I wanted to do was create habits that were moderate.

What was my approach? I decided to follow a diet of my own creation, which I called The Hunger Satisfaction Diet. I would only eat after a hunger growl. OK. That diet is the worst I have followed, including The Cabbage Soup Diet. I realized that the stomach makes all sorts of noises, and I was eating larger and larger quantities of food whenever I could justify to myself that my stomach had growled. The reason why, I eventually figured out, was that I didn't know the next time I would be able to eat.

It was after three months of that sorry diet that I learned about The No S Diet.

Right now, my weight is up above 200 pounds. Am I tempted to go off this diet and go find some other diet? Absolutely not. The whole point of the diet is to create habits, and that's exactly in line with Aristotle's Ethics.

I have concluded that 30 plus years of dieting have so damaged my natural instincts with food that my best bet is to follow the diet with the modification of reducing the number of S Days to three per month, since I think my S Days will be over the top for the foreseeable future. It is really wonderful to not be obsessed with food and hunger.

Reading Aristotle's Ethics and listening to Koterski's tapes helped me to recognize immediatley the brilliance of this diet.

Kathleen

clarinetgal · Post by **clarinetgal** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 9:48 pm

I'll look into that! My BA is in Politics and Government, and I have a Master of Arts degree in teaching. I taught elementary school for five years before I had my son. I've become happier with being a stay at hom mom lately, because like you, I don't want somebody else raising my son. However. there are times when I really miss being with adults.
Anyway, thanks!

Kathleen · Post by **Kathleen** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:28 am

I could be with adults volunteering in the school and having playdates for the kids where the Moms talked, but I also enjoyed just listening to lectures at home when doing all that housework that comes with having kids at home.
Kathleen

clarinetgal · Post by **clarinetgal** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:53 am

I'll bet! The housework is definitely my least favorite part of staying at home.

Kathleen · Post by **Kathleen** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 7:23 pm

Mine too. I have a CD player and radio in the kitchen, a radio in the bedroom, and the ipod in the laundry room. That's where I'm headed now. Our 10 year old is having a sleepover, so we need a clean house,
Kathleen