Excess and the Culture of Obestity

[wosnes]

What follows is from this -- which I found a little hard to read.
http://www.mireilleguiliano.com/article ... excess.pdf

These parts "spoke" to me:

Americans are certainly more extreme about their food than people I see in other countries...Dieting shows off America's extremism. And, of course, if dieting worked, there would not be so many heavy people. Our diet gurus of the moment are the grand marshals of the endless parade of regiments based on the radical elimination of particular foods in favor of others. When you consider the range of foods that have had their moment in the sun -- cabbage soup, grapefruit, oat bran, low fat, high protein, low carbs -- it's hard to believe that each magic bullet was aimed at the same human metabolism.

Something that has always amazed and amused me is how we are told to eat or not to eat this, that or the next thing -- like fat, protein or carbs -- but somewhere someone (actually, a LOT of someones) is or isn't eating the same thing with no ill-effects in terms of weight or health or both.

I agree about Americans being extreme about diet.

Americans need nothing less than a regime change in the way they relate to food. And regime change takes time -- months, not weeks, as diets propose. Developing a sense and appreciation of what is good and satisfying to eat, and of what is a proper portion, it is a matter of practice and gradual conditioning. It's entirely personal and self-regulatory. An individual's best way to eat is found not by following a pyramid or menu chart, but by following one's tastes. To distinguish true pleasures from idle calories, people must eat as diversely as possible and avoid too much of any one thing (contra diet-think).

I was looking at the Mediterranean food pyramid today and realized something: The Mediterranean food pyramid is based on how people in that area DO eat; the USDA food pyramid is based on how Americans SHOULD eat.

[Thalia]

That passage sums up everything I liked and everything I hated about "French Women Don't" in a nutshell!

Americans, especially women, have come to accept being overweight as the norm. Many are not the least bit self-conscious .

What PLANET has this woman visited? She seems to think that if people do not weep in her presence, they must not be sufficiently ashamed of their horrible, horrible fat bodies. Sacre bleu!

But what she says about dieting and extremism seems to be right on, to me.

[NoelFigart]

That passage sums up everything I liked and everything I hated about "French Women Don't" in a nutshell!

Americans, especially women, have come to accept being overweight as the norm. Many are not the least bit self-conscious .

What PLANET has this woman visited? She seems to think that if people do not weep in her presence, they must not be sufficiently ashamed of their horrible, horrible fat bodies. Sacre bleu!

But what she says about dieting and extremism seems to be right on, to me.

Well...

This is actually a huge button with me. I mean, really big.

It's pretty much the reason I backed off from being involved on this board for awhile.

Yes yes yes, I want to have sane and moderate eating habits.

Yes, excess adipose tissue does create a toll on the body.

Yes, eating moderately and exercising moderately over a long period of time is what really is the way to promote one's best health. I agree absolutely whole-heartedly with every one of those things.

I do not think that someone who does not do these things is immoral or bad or deficient. People often have reasons for what they do.

My reason?

I'm okay-looking. Decent features. Curvy figure when I'm not overweight.

I also have an IQ of 145. What was more important to the world? Not my brain, boy howdy let me tell you what! Pretty, pretty pretty was the important thing. Not healthy. Not strong. Not well-educated. Not successful. Pretty. The only people who ever thought the fact I was smart was worth a damn was my parents. (And thank God for that!)

The rewards of pretty? HAH! Snippiness from female friends, men calling you nasty names if you don't give them flattering enough attention. Being condescended to if you assert an opinion (as if an hourglass figure couldn't house a high IQ). There was no payoff to me for a long time and honestly that's one part of being a healthy weight I am NOT looking forward to. God, and I wasn't even especially pretty. Hopefully being middle-aged will ameliorate some of the worst aspects.

What in HELL is there to be ashamed of if you decide not to worry about your weight? Sometimes, the payoff is huge.

[Nichole]

Hmmm, well, everybody has a different experience. I've just lost a lot of weight and I don't have any of those problems. When I was this weight in the past, I didn't have any of those problems, either. I don't feel much different being thinner, but it's nice not to have to stress about whether my pants will be too tight in the morning.

[kccc]

Everyone's experience IS different.

I think I've posted that I initially lost weight in my mid-20's, when I realized I was following the same path to obesity that most of my family had followed. It was about 40 pounds, if I recall correctly.

One thing that INFURIATED me at the time was the sudden influx of male attention, especially from guys I'd known before I lost weight. My reaction was "So NOW I'm interesting? Riiiight." I felt as if my personality, intelligence, and overall charm and talent (okay, I'm stretching a bit here ) had been totally overlooked until housed in an acceptable body.

Now, it wasn't so intense that I wanted to re-gain the weight by any stretch. (Though I did flee into a relationship with someone largely because he'd been attracted to me before I lost weight, which turned out NOT to be a good reason... but that's way off topic, as well as a loo-ong time ago!) But still, based on that experience, I think I "get" what Noel is saying.

Extra weight is not good, but it is not the sum of a person. And people "care" about weight on multiple levels and for multiple reasons.

I also hold the strong opinion that environment DOES affect choice, more than we individualistic-Americans would like to think, and that we've built an AWFUL environment for healthy choices. Which is what I think the article is mostly about.

[NoelFigart]

I also hold the strong opinion that environment DOES affect choice, more than we individualistic-Americans would like to think, and that we've built an AWFUL environment for healthy choices. Which is what I think the article is mostly about.

Yes, the permasnacking, lack of formal meals, the hatred of genuine, contained and sanctioned pleasure...

All these things ARE bad and possibly a great deal of why we've gone so overboard.

Our excess is sometimes a strength, but not here, certainly.

[wosnes]

I also hold the strong opinion that environment DOES affect choice, more than we individualistic-Americans would like to think, and that we've built an AWFUL environment for healthy choices. Which is what I think the article is mostly about.

Yes, the permasnacking, lack of formal meals, the hatred of genuine, contained and sanctioned pleasure...

All these things ARE bad and possibly a great deal of why we've gone so overboard.

Our excess is sometimes a strength, but not here, certainly.

And then there's the food. There are some things that we know are bad choices, especially for everyday eating. There is also a tremendous amount of foods that masquerade as good, when in reality they're not better than junk. I was with my daughters (both adults) the other day when they were buying the foods that they would take to work during the week. Both chose yogurt, but both chose basically on the number of calories. Neither of their choices were ones that I would buy because I think they're edible food-like products. What I would buy is higher in fat and calories, but it's real food.

[NoelFigart]

I'm with ya on the "real food" thing, wosnes!

I don't make a real, conscious choice to eat low fat, but I eat so many real fruits and veggies, whole grains and unprocessed food that I do NOT sweat a slice of cheese or real eggs for breakfast if I want them.

[Nichole]

I'd say I eat a good amount of 'real food' but I do also eat some processed food. I do have low-fat yogurt every day and Stroeman's whole wheat bread, but I also eat a lot of fresh veggies and unprocessed, cooked-at-home chicken or sometimes shrimp. So I think it's all about balance.

[wosnes]

I'd say I eat a good amount of 'real food' but I do also eat some processed food. I do have low-fat yogurt every day and Stroeman's whole wheat bread, but I also eat a lot of fresh veggies and unprocessed, cooked-at-home chicken or sometimes shrimp. So I think it's all about balance.

A few years ago I was reading The Mediterranean Heart Diet and there was a statement about low-fat dairy products not being available when the Seven Countries Study was done. I'm sure I knew that subconsciously, but it was the first time I consciously thought about it. All the cheese, yogurt and milk the healthy people in the Mediterranean ate was full-fat. It was kind of shocking to me, especially considering that their cholesterol levels were low.

When I want to lower the fat in my diet, I don't use reduced fat products. I use less in cooking, eat less of the foods that are higher in fat, and eat them less often. With the exception of the fact that fat is higher in calories than protein or carbohydrates, I'm not at all sure that what we've been taught about fat in general and saturated fats in particular is true.

And then there's processed foods. I don't think many of us realize that unless you're eating something exactly as it appears in nature, you're eating processed foods. If you're eating applesauce instead of an apple, you're eating a processed food. Shoot, if you cook food, it's processed.

Nearly all dairy products available to us are processed. Unless you're using unpasteurized, non-homogenized milk, when you use milk, you're using a highly processed food. Cheese and yogurt are even more processed. In general, those aren't a problem. It's when you get to American cheese slices, Cheez Whiz and Velveeta that it's really a problem. Most yogurts in the grocery are the yogurt equivalent of Cheez Whiz or Velveeta.

All bread is processed. Again, in general, not a problem, but there's a big difference between whole wheat bread and Wonder bread. I think there's even a difference between artisan or homemade white breads and Wonder bread.

All processed foods are not created equal. When Michael Pollan asked for our own food rules (BTW, his book Food Rules: An Eater's Manual will be released 12/29), one of the rules I liked was "can I make this at home?" I could make the yogurt I buy at home. I can't make the yogurt my daughters bought at home.

Here's the ingredients list from theirs:

Cultured pasteurized grade A nonfat milk, high fructose corn syrup, raspberries, modified corn starch, nonfat milk, kosher gelatin, citric acid, natural flavor, tricalcium phosphate, aspartame, potassium sorbate added to maintain freshness, red #40, vitamin A acetate, vitamin D2.

Here's the ingredients list from mine:

Grade A pasteurized milk and cream, live active yogurt culture (L.Bulgaricus, S. Thermophilus)

[FarmerHal]

Re: US Food Pyramid

I think the US food pyramid has it all wrong. Many people who do not know they have insulin resistance (hyperinsulinism) struggle with weight gain even on low calorie (high in carbs- bread, rice, potatoes, cereal) and low in fat, protein and very few fruits and vegges.

I beleive in a lower carb/paleo type eating and it has been the key for me feeling much better- no afternoon fatigue, no all day brain fog, much more energy and it's because I'm getting much of my nutrition from fresh fruits, veggies, high quality lean protein, seeds and nuts. These foods are nutrient dense, more complex for digestion (feel fuller longer) and delicious. Rice and flour-based products have to have vitamins/minerals added to them for them to be nutritious.

So many Americans are OverFed and UnderNourished.

Anyway, kindof soapbox for me now I suppose! I've lost 15.5 pounds in a month just by cutting out grains, potatoes, most sweets. And I haven't been perfect either...

[wosnes]

One of the things that most intrigues me is that folks in other countries who eat their traditional diets (which often are high in carbs -- even the white stuff) do not seem to have these issues.

I think part of it is what they eat with it -- more vegetables, fruits, legumes as well as other whole grains. I also think that exercise is part of it. Not going to the gym or doing an exercise routine necessarily, but just walking and climbing stairs and so on more.

http://www.reversingdiabetes.org/HowitWorks.aspx (I don't endorse this program, either, but think the information is interesting.)

We need to make our cells hungry

How do we make a cell hungry? Exercise! Walk, walk, walk, walk.

Some years ago I read a summary of a paper about diet, exercise and Type 2 diabetes. This particular paper said that exercise is probably equally if not more important than diet in the treatment of Type 2 diabetes. I think that's probably true.

[Nichole]

Okay, so last week I bought plain yogurt, only 2 ingredients and 100 calories. That's only 10 more than the low-fat overprocessed variety. I added fresh strawberries, cinnamon, a packet of Splenda (sorry, it tastes bad without it), and two tablespoons of granola. I love it! It's not overly sweet and it's mostly a whole food. And it keeps me full for hours.

[Thalia]

I like whole yogurt with maple syrup or honey and fruit. So delicious!

[Shirls]

I really only like plain yogurt. As a vegetarian I read labels constantly to make sure no gelatin is added (there are literally only two brands here that do NOT add gelatin). Also I have tried making my own in an electric yogurt maker but with disappointing results. It comes out watery or curdy. Tried adding skim milk powder but then it came out gritty as well I've wasted so much milk in this endeavour and the price of yogurt is so low I figure I might as well buy it.

[Nichole]

Mmm, Thalia, that sounds great.

Shirls: Hey, at least you tried. Yogurt at my ACME (supermarket) is usualy pretty cheap so I don't mind paying either.

I definitely feel like I've been slowly overturning my diet to mostly whole foods and it's great! However, I'm not striving for a complete overhaul.

[Shirls]

Oddly, it is difficult to find full cream yogurt here (South Africa). It's mainly low fat. So what happens to all the fat that's removed I wonder? And maybe if I tried making yogurt with full cream milk it might be more successful. Will give it one more go

[wosnes]

Americans are certainly more extreme about their food than I see in other countries...Dieting shows off America’s extremism. And, of course, if dieting worked, there would not be so many heavy and obese people. Our diet gurus of the moment are the grand marshals of our endless parade of “scientifically†devised regimens based on the radical elimination of particular foods in favor of others...In advocating regulated gastronomic pleasure instead of diets as the most powerful tool of weight control, I have made an unexpected observation: Americans, while still committed to weight loss in principle, are answering diet fatigue in two ways. The obvious one is surrender. The other, oddly, is to stay the course: diet indefinitely in an attempt to lose weight and keep it off. Now that’s a grim thought; no pleasure, no fun. Americans are being pushed to the unthinkable: perpetual dieting to be perpetually overweight.

I reread this article yesterday. Saturday night I watched a rerun of the most recent episode of The Biggest Loser. In this episode the contestants were locked out of the kitchen at the ranch for a week; they had to eat out for every meal. The rationale for this was that they wouldn't be able to cook everything they ate forever, so they had to learn to eat when away from home.

The group was shown dining at a Mexican restaurant and then ordering food to be delivered to the ranch. I don't think there was one item that they could order exactly as it appeared on the menus. It might have been as simple as "dressing on the side" (though I think that was one of several changes to a salad) to nearly completely revising a dish, but there were modifications of everything.

I realized that just like Ms Guiliano says, these folks will either a) surrender and regain the weight or b) be on a diet for the rest of their lives. They certainly won't learn to relax and enjoy food in a truly healthy way. They'll always see certain foods as "bad" and experience guilt if the eat them. There will never be pleasure or fun associated with eating. That's not a way to live; it's a way to exist.

[Dandelion]

We try to eat a traditional foods diet - meaning we avoid things created in a lab, things like artificial sweeteners and additives, MSG, Soy, vegetable oils (both of which are very unhealthy in spite of common belief) and as much as we can, stick to foods which have been around long term.

We eat full fat dairy, meat with the fat on it and cook with butter or other animal fats. I do not worry about saturated fat since it does not cause heart disease. We soak grains to get rid of anti-nutrients, cook vegetables that are healthier cooked and culture dairy, vegetables, fruits and beverages for greater health benefits.

One of the things I culture is fil mjolk. It is similar to yogurt but has a milder flavour so many people who might think yogurt it a bit tart may like this better. Best of all, though, it cultures at room temperature - so it's simple to make. You just add a teaspoon from the previous batch to a jar of milk and the next day it's done.

If someone might be interested I ordered mine from Anaharta Balance.