Twelve days in, and frustrated!

[Doran]

Hi folks. New here and arriving with a bad attitude. Please humor me as I give a bit of history...

I stumbled upon No S by accident, though I've been mildly inclined to be more diligent about diet and exercise for awhile now. Counting calories (a la Weight Watchers) is not for me, and I can't see myself sticking long term with any diet plan that restricts the kinds of foods I can eat. So, No S seemed like a great match.

Almost on a whim, I decided to start it on a Friday, figuring if it was a disaster, I'd be staring an S day in the face. Well, Friday went well enough. I felt hungry for large portions of the day (between meals), but I didn't cheat. Saturday, I allowed myself a tiny sample of chocolate, but decided I'd rather stick with the program through the weekend even, to see how it felt. Stuck with the plan throughout that weekend and the whole next week. Gave myself some latitide over this past weekend. Back on track yesterday and today.

I don't own a set of scales, so I haven't weighed myself for a month (it was stepping on a scale a month ago that got me truly revved up to do something about the persistent gain). But, today, I stepped on the scales in a doctor's office and --

Nothing. Not one ounce of difference!! So, now I'm just plain annoyed.

I am not severely overweight. Most people look at me and categorize me as "trim" -- not skinny, not heavy. I am not a huge junk food eater, so HFCS and such are not a part of my habits. I walk about 4 miles, once or twice a week, at a good pace. I added in some shorter walks the past week or so. And, despite this I have gained 20 lbs. in 20 years. And that's just not cool.

So, what gives? Why have I realized zero loss in 12 days of diligence? I want to look and feel better. I don't want to keep buying the next size larger in my clothing. Does it just take some people more time? Is there something else I need to do instead? I need results to feel like it's worth the effort to keep trying, so after today's weigh-in, I'm feeling really discouraged. Help.

[ShannahR]

Doran-
I have a feeling that this isn't really what you want to hear right now, but 12 days is not a very long time. For most people, No S doesn't trigger quick water loss in the beginning--the source of big weight losses at the beginning of alot of low carb diets. In my personal experience you need to give No S at least 1 months before you see real results.
With that in mind, my advice is put the scale away for now. Out of sight out of mind. Concentrate on building habits and keeping you Habitcal green and yellow. Try not to even think about weight loss. Focus on behavior, not results.
In one month get the scale out again and see how it's been going. If you don't get the result you want keep in mind that if you are already close to a healthy weight, No S helps you maintain or produces very slow weight loss that can take up to 3 months to be evident.

I know you feel frustrated right now but take a second to realize that you gained this weight over--what did you say 20 years? So it's not going to come off overnight.

Good luck!

[wosnes]

Doran --

You don't realize it, but you've seen results: you didn't gain. This is NOT a quick weight loss program. You're changing your habits while eating the foods you enjoy. It's not at all unusual not to lose in the first month or so.

Many -- maybe even most -- folks will load up their plates at meal times initially in order not to feel hungry between meals. They're really not creating a calorie deficit. As time goes by and you see that you aren't hungry between meals and may even be uncomfortably full after meals, the amount of food on the plate decreases and you start to lose.

I think most of us do need to pay attention to portion sizes in order to lose weight. The smaller, older and less active we are, the more we need to pay attention to them.

[Aleria]

No, 12 days really isn't very much. It may mean you already had fairly moderate habits, which is why I think I only lost 5 pounds in my first two months.
Give it some more time. If it still isn't working, consider mods.

[Doran]

I have a feeling that this isn't really what you want to hear right now, but 12 days is not a very long time. For most people, No S doesn't trigger quick water loss in the beginning--the source of big weight losses at the beginning of alot of low carb diets. ...take a second to realize that you gained this weight over--what did you say 20 years? So it's not going to come off overnight.

No, maybe not what I want to hear, but good to hear it all the same. My rational mind knows that 12 days isn't a long time. I guess I tripped up reading the stories of those who are losing a pound a day, or 5 pounds a week, in the first week. I wasn't looking for anything quite so spectacular, but I thought maybe I'd see just a little difference, you know? A pound or three. I know it's silly. What can I say -- I come from a Want-It-Now society. I also just read a thread below in which the poster discusses No S being better suited as a maintenance diet for those who already eat moderately. I'm not certain that's true (nor are some who replied below), but it does bring into sharper focus the idea that success isn't going to happen in a hurry, and that it may be more challenging, on some level for those of us who have less to lose in the first place.

Thanks for the pep talk.

If others have thoughts to share, stories, experiences, ideas -- please feel free. The support is helpful.

[Doran]

...I only lost 5 pounds in my first two months.

Oh. Gee. That's a useful little reality check. Good to know so that I can keep that in mind. Guess I should avoid signing on with the group looking to lose 10 lbs by Memorial Day, huh?


Mind my asking how things progressed after that initial 2 months and 5 lbs?

[sophiasapientia]

I am not severely overweight. Most people look at me and categorize me as "trim" -- not skinny, not heavy. I am not a huge junk food eater, so HFCS and such are not a part of my habits. I walk about 4 miles, once or twice a week, at a good pace. I added in some shorter walks the past week or so. And, despite this I have gained 20 lbs. in 20 years. And that's just not cool.

My guess is that you may need to increase your activity level before trying anything else, especially depending on how sedentary you are during the course of a day. I'm a walker/pedometer wearer and have read that the experts recommend that you aim for an average of at least 12,000-15,000 steps a day while trying to lose weight. (10,000 steps = about 5 miles, give or take.) 4 miles once or twice a week plus a couple of short walks is a good start but may not be enough to lose much weight if your eating habits are already moderate. FWIW, I've lost about 16 pounds on No S since the beginning of the year. (I'm 5'3", started at 145 and am about 128.5 right now.)

[marygrace]

Congratulations for sticking with NoS. Over time, you will lose weight, but you'll also develop some really strong, healthy habits that'll improve your relationship with food.

Like the others have said, 12 days is not a long time. But there's more, I think, that you need to consider. You said that most people would consider you "trim", so you probably don't have a ton of weight to lose in the first place. The closer you are to your ideal weight, the harder it is to get the pounds off. I experienced this first-hand: I only wanted to lose about a dress size worth of weight, and it took something like 2 or 3 months for that to happen with NoS. But I lost the weight, and the process was pretty painless. Best of all, I relate to food a whole lot better now.

Another thing to consider is your activity level. I believe the recommendation for maintaining weight is 60 minutes of physical activity on most days--and 90 minutes for people looking to lose weight. If you want to see results quicker, moving more will help a lot.

[Aleria]

...I only lost 5 pounds in my first two months.

Oh. Gee. That's a useful little reality check. Good to know so that I can keep that in mind. Guess I should avoid signing on with the group looking to lose 10 lbs by Memorial Day, huh?


Mind my asking how things progressed after that initial 2 months and 5 lbs?

I can't say, really. I'm in my fourth month now, but I haven't weighed since then. I don't think I've lost much though, mainly due to lack of exercise.

[Doran]

Those of you who have increased your exercise/movement while using No S --

Do you find yourself hungrier after your "workout?" If so, how do you manage that? I would say that I feel hungry fairly often between meals right now. Maybe that's normal. Not a feeling I love, but not overwhelming either. I've been trying to drink liquids to quell the urge to eat. While not always a snacker, I have picked up the habit since having children and snack foods for them in the house. It's worst now that they are teens and can pretty much eat anything in sight with nary a care, with me trying to follow suit. And wouldn't you know -- the oldest is 15 -- just about the same number of years it's taken me to gain this weight!

My activity level has also dropped significantly in the past 3 years (change of jobs), while my eating habits have remained the same. I'm sure that's contributed to the more recent bulge. So, yes. I'm listening to you all. More walking. Or more something active. On more days. ::sigh:: Not like I don't already know all this stuff, but I admit to having had the [pipe]dream that I would be able to change on No S alone.

[sophiasapientia]

Do you find yourself hungrier after your "workout?" If so, how do you manage that?

Personally? No, but I'm not sweating buckets at the gym either. My "Bread and Butter" exercise is walking/nordic walking 45-60+ minutes a day. I clock the rest of my pedometer steps by trying to be as active as possible as I go about the normal course of my day. Some No Sers have found that they do best with a planned pre or post workout snack, though.

With that said, I do get hungry as my normal meal times approach. I have some water and live with it, knowing that I'll enjoy my meal all the more soon enough.

[NoelFigart]

Those of you who have increased your exercise/movement while using No S --

Do you find yourself hungrier after your "workout?" If so, how do you manage that? I would say that I feel hungry fairly often between meals right now. Maybe that's normal.

You haven't been doing it long enough to get habits solid. Take a chill pill on that one. You WILL be hungry between meals for a bit, and that's okay. Deep breath.

Now, about exercise, it's a huge peeve of mine that you HAVE to eat before and after working out. You don't unless you're a professional competitive bodybuilder or something and in that case, you don't NEED No-S. You're doing something a lot different.

YES you might feel hungrier at meals when you work out more. Just like you need to train your stomach not t expect snacks, you need to train your stomach not to expect workout snacks. (This advice is not for the competitive athlete where specific levels of performance are an issue. Your needs are different. But a lot of average Joes think they need to apply competitive athlete standards to their workouts, and unless they're doing competitive athlete training, they do NOT).

[Doran]

Now, about exercise, it's a huge peeve of mine that you HAVE to eat before and after working out.

Wait, what? I'm not sure I'm following you here. Are you saying it peeves you that many people assume they have to eat before and after a workout, when that's not the case? I don't assume that, but the fact of the matter is that exercising often makes me feel hungrier afterwards. So, I was just wondering if others experience that, too, and how they manage it.

I also think that many people -- not No S'ers, just people in general -- assume that, after vigorous exercise, they've earned the right to indulge in a snack (often not a "good" one), and that's partially what keeps them at the same weight despite their workouts. But, I guess that's a whole other story.

[NoelFigart]

Wait, what? I'm not sure I'm following you here. Are you saying it peeves you that many people assume they have to eat before and after a workout, when that's not the case?

Not directed at you, but at many popular magazine articles that act like you have to eat within a certain window of exercising. Read almost any women's magazine. It's only good advice for bodybuilders training for a competition (which No-S isn't even vaguely about) or competitive athletes (in which case, you probably don't need No-S anyway).

[clarinetgal]

I don't eat right before or right after I exercise, either. I'm trying to convert to being a morning exerciser, so on the days I manage to get up early and exercise, I'll do the workout first. Then, I'll drink my coffee, get my son up and get his breakfast ready, and I'll eat my breakfast with him. So it ends up being about 2 hours after I finish my workout.
Also, I find that I get hungrier when I do higher intensity cardio or really long cardio sessions (one hour or more), but if I do shorter, less intense cardio, pilates, yoga, or light weight training (my other forms of exercise), I don't get hungry after I work out.
Anyway, I just wanted to share my insights on that. Also, I'm another one who is really close to goal weight (I'm at a point where I could either maintain, or drop a few more pounds, but I don't need to), and I have to work really hard to lose weight.

[ThomsonsPier]

When I started, I was not yet overweight and hoping to keep it that way, prevention being better than cure and all that. Like you, most people would categorise me as trim, though that's veering toward stocky (in a good way). I have succeeded, but losing further weight took a long time and it was only after increasing my exercise levels that I really started to see a change. From the anecdotal evidence on this site, I'd say No-S works faster the further you are from your ideal weight, which, and here's an interesting qualifier, may not be the same as you desired weight. The unfortunate corollary to this is that the closer to that weight you are, the slower No-S will (probably) work.

As for feeling hungrier after exercise, I suggest eating more. Don't, however, do so by snacking, which will provide you with little more than the calories you're trying to burn off. The body craves nutrition, not calories. I've seen perfectly good results by simply tweaking the meals before and/or after exercising in order to ensure my body has adequate nutrition.

The obsession, once again media-fuelled, with eating before, after, and during exercise seems to me to stem largely from most people's misunderstanding of how exercising affects the body. I've seen people quaff an energy drink which contains more calories than are then burned by the exercise they then perform badly for about five minutes, then congratulate themselves by having a snack. These are generally the people who give up after a time because "the gym isn't working". (Disclaimer: I gave up on the gym too, but that was largely because I found it boring and expensive and I took up martial arts instead.) Another common mistake I saw was to "cheat" during exercise to make it possible to lift more or go faster, which brings to mind the phrase "cut off your nose to spite your face". The short term perceived increase in performance benefits nothing in the long term. Those cheats from sacrificing form and structure are for competition, where the extra is needed, not for training, which should be hard.

What I was trying to convey in the rambling, slightly ranty mess above is that the same mindset is required for useful exercise and for useful eating. Doing things mindfully is probably the first step; planning and focus on your goals will also help. Though that sounds a bit regimented, it really doesn't need to be; just keeping your aims in the back of your mind should be enough. Find some way of applying things that appeals to you; I like gathering information and learning useful skills, so informing myself on nutrition and taking up martial arts was a far better way for me to improve my health than following a prescribed diet and pumping weights and running at the gym. In another parallel that's just occurred to me, just as there is good and bad pain after exercise, so too is there good and bad hunger. Learning to tell the difference will help. Okay, that one was a bit laboured. Just learn to listen to what your body needs and use your intelligence to account, through your meals, for what you're doing with it.

To give you some idea of how important I consider weight in this process, I think I've lost about sixteen pounds over the roughly four years I've been No-Sing*. That doesn't sound like a great deal, but I look and feel completely different and when I meet people I haven't seen for a good while they frequently comment on how well I look. Take that for whatever you deem it's worth.

*Exact figures not available.

[marygrace]

Those of you who have increased your exercise/movement while using No S --

Do you find yourself hungrier after your "workout?" If so, how do you manage that?

If I work out very shortly before my next meal, yes, I'm hungry. And since I tend to work out vigorously, if I haven't eaten for 5 or 6 or more hours (in the case of working out first thing in the AM before breakfast), I tend to feel really lightheaded while working out. I work around this by either exercising closer to a time when I ate a meal, or adding in a pre-workout mini-meal. Like NoelFigart mentioned above, I'm not a fan of people automatically assuming they need a snack to sustain them through a workout--especially if the workout is only a moderate intensity. If your exercise is a walk or easy bike ride, I say deal with the hunger or, if you feel you really need it, have a glass of milk or water to tide you over. If you're going to be doing something more vigorous for more than 20 or 30 minutes, experimenting with a mini-meal is OK, I think. It's about finding what works for you.

[oolala53]

I actually tend not to feel hungry soon after a workout. Maybe later, but I usually have meal within an hour or two anyway. Don't know why. Just my experience.

For another perspective on exercise and not eating just before or afterwards, look up Brad Pilon, esp. on youtube. He's been building muscle through intermittant 24-hour fasts for years. I'm not advocating that length of time between meals, but surely exercise somewhere in the middle of the fasting between meals prescribed by No S should be doable without undue suffering. However, he doesn't seem to sound like he has a problem with being hungry. You may need

I've also found that after a few weeks of No S, I didn't even want to eat much more the the times I felt ravenous before a meal and when I was just plain hungry.

I think this is going to shake out for you with more practice.

[Doran]

I think this is going to shake out for you with more practice.

I'm looking forward to that!! I'm having a harder time than I expected convincing my brain that it's OK for my body to feel mildly hungry as often as it does right now. So many of "you" talk as if you had no trouble going hard core (wait, I guess that's really supposed to be "vanilla") No S after the first few days. I suppose it's time for me to do some serious readjusting of my expectations.

Thanks for all the tips, folks! I really appreciate the support and the good information.

[oolala53]

Oh, it didn't get there without some tweaking. I found I had to add more fat to meals for one thing. I didn't have much more room for food, but I felt I needed more calories. Fat takes up little room, but adds to satiety. I also include a lean protein component in almost all meals, even breakfast--egg whites, cottage cheese, protein powder. I do have coffee with milk between meals, too. Also, most of my N days are work days. I teach in high school, and that keeps my attention off food a lot of the time. Sometimes, I have days out of the classroom doing paperwork, and hunger can be more noticeable.

Did someone else say it already? Reinhard highly recommends against turning S days into N days. The only induction phase, if you can call it that, is to try to complete 21 days of Vanilla No S. We're talking long term! You will not live for years without S days. Best not to skip them soon or later.

[Doran]

Oh, it didn't get there without some tweaking. I found I had to add more fat to meals for one thing. I didn't have much more room for food, but I felt I needed more calories. Fat takes up little room, but adds to satiety. I also include a lean protein component in almost all meals, even breakfast--egg whites, cottage cheese, protein powder. I do have coffee with milk between meals, too. Also, most of my N days are work days. I teach in high school, and that keeps my attention off food a lot of the time. Sometimes, I have days out of the classroom doing paperwork, and hunger can be more noticeable.

Did someone else say it already? Reinhard highly recommends against turning S days into N days. The only induction phase, if you can call it that, is to try to complete 21 days of Vanilla No S. We're talking long term! You will not live for years without S days. Best not to skip them soon or later.

All good to know. And, no worries. I have no intention to turn S days into N days. I'm not crazy I only did it that first weekend, because I had started on a Friday and wanted to see if I could stick with the program for at least a week. Kind of my own trial run.

I'll keep checking in here if that's OK. I enjoy reading the other posts, and it helps me to get feedback for my own process. Thanks all!

p.s. I'm looking forward to Saturday!!