Breakfast amd lunch issues

[Poptart]

I am brand new to this, and here is my problem. I have always been a grazer during the day, and a pig-outter at night. My breakfast consists of a 200 calorie zone bar and i cant really eat anything more because it's all I can get down i am just not very hungry until evening. so what is happening is that i am getting way too hungry between meals, like lightheaded hungry because i cannot go 5 hours on 200 calories, so i end up eating a wedge of hungry cow cheese a few hours later to get me to lunch. this is how i am used to being, light grazing, so i have a problem. it is a recipe for failure if i cannot get these first 2 meals to be a reasonable calorie amt. has anyone else started this way and found that things changed as they went along? If i did eat more calories for breakfast it would have to be spaced out like an hour apart or it feels like forcefeeding because i am not hungry after the initial 200 calorie, not hungry again for like 2 hours. help!

[oolala53]

I have been like that, but it was before No S. I found that when I started eating evening meals with no snacking after dinner, I got hungrier in the morning.

Try eating some walnuts with your morning bar. Just pop a half in every few mouthfuls. Fats help me, as long as I have enough protein. A bar with more protein, maybe? Have coffee with milk to get you to lunch. Or tomato juice? You might be hungry. It's okay. Hunger between meals is perfectly healthy, unless you know you have a blood sugar issue.

I'd say if you aren't eating junk and until you get more experience with the habit of eating a moderate dinner with no snacking afterward (I'm talking 3-5 days), if you have to eat an apple and a slice of cheese half way between breakfast and lunch, so be it. But as soon as you can, get to three chewing events a day. You will find that hunger has a different effect on different days. I sometimes find it's very annoying and other days, I kind of like it. But it definitely becomes more tolerable.

I often eat very little at breakfast on Mondays because of S days. I drink my coffee and get very hungry for lunch, but then everything falls into place again.

You'll figure this out. A week is nothing. Just keep working on a moderate dinner. You might never need much of a breakfast and lunch. But discover this. You don't have to know ahead of time.

[Poptart]

Thank you oolala for the tips, i certainly can sneak in a few walnuts with breakfast, and i laughed at the part about hunger being healthy and normal, isnt it weird i actually needed reminding about that, you are so right, there is nothing wrong with hunger between meals, it's foreign to me and i sorta panicked, but i may be mistaking normal hunger for 'omg this cant be good', but i will get used to being 'normal', thanks again.

[paulawylma]

I'm probably out of line here, but . . .aren't Zone bars a sweet? I can't think of any enery or nutrition bar that isn't coated in chocolate or some other sweet coating. It's up to every individual's taste buds, but I personally consider all those things as sweets and stopped eating them when I started No S. I've saved alot of money that way.

As far as breakfast goes, I agree that if you eat your last meal at least 3 to 4 hours before bed, then you are likely to wake up hungry. A better brreakfast would be non-sweet cereal with fruit and milk and perhaps toast (depending on how hungry you are). Or, if you like protein, try eggs and toast.

If you still aren't hungry in the morning, then try eating breakfast later in the day during a break. There's no rule that breakfast has to be eaten before you leave home for the day, it is simply the first meal of the day--when you break the fast of the night before.

[desertmom]

I agree that eating a normal dinner and nothing afterward will probably leave you hungry for breakfast the next morning. The other thing I was going to suggest was possibly waiting longer for breakfast. Maybe an extra hour in the morning would leave you feeling hungrier. And then, if you wanted, you could push back all of your meals.

[DaveMc]

I have always been a grazer during the day, and a pig-outter at night.

See Reinhard's "but I'm a grazer" commentary on the main NoS page ... It's theoretically *possible* to eat moderately as a grazer, but most people don't -- and if you're here, chances are you aren't, either, right? So this pattern of constant snacking all day followed by eating a lot at night is something you probably need to change.

I have always been a grazer during the day, and a pig-outter at night. My breakfast consists of a 200 calorie zone bar and i cant really eat anything more because it's all I can get down i am just not very hungry until evening.

That's something that is very likely to change if you follow NoS, as others have pointed out: if you can stick to the pattern of eating only at meals, you'll find that you're hungry for those meals, including breakfast. Presumably you've not normally been hungry in the morning because of the "pig-out" nature of your eating at night ... maybe you need to consciously focus on spreading out your food over the three meals, at first. You shouldn't feel like you have to force-feed yourself, but I betcha that as you stop snacking, you'll start to find that eating a reasonable breakfast becomes easier.

If you're literally light-headed between meals, it's OK to get some calories into you! I mean, one nice thing about NoS is how much it places the responsibility on *you* (this is also a hard thing about it, at first), so you really don't need our permission, but if you want mine, you have it: if you really feel like you're going to faint, go ahead and stop yourself from fainting! The usual recommendation is to do this using drinks (milk or fruit juice, say), or if you need to eat, make it a planned event: decide in advance that you're going to have a mini-meal at 10am or 3pm or whatever. I think that planning is the most important thing, since the goal is to get out of the habit of eating randomly. There's actually nothing in NoS that says that the number of meals per day needs to be three (again, see Reinhard's commentary on this, on the main page), that's just a sensible default, but if you need to start with four or five because you can't make it otherwise, I'd say that's better than not being able to stick to NoS. A lot of people find they can make three meals a day work, after a hard few first weeks, but everyone's different -- you might need to start with more meals, then work down to three eventually. But let me say it again: having these meals be *planned* is important! If you let yourself eat whenever you feel like, you're basically back to snacking, and that's the habit you're trying to get rid of.

Welcome aboard, and best of luck!

[wosnes]

Hunger between meals is perfectly healthy, unless you know you have a blood sugar issue.

Hunger and low blood sugar aren't necessarily related. You can have low blood sugar and not be hungry. You can be hungry and not have low blood sugar. Most people who say they have low blood sugar issues 1) have never been tested, and 2) could solve the problem by eating more foods high in fiber and fewer refined foods.

I'm probably out of line here, but . . .aren't Zone bars a sweet

Zone Bars aren't any better than any of the rest of the bars. I rarely have them, but for a "nutrition bar", I prefer Lara Bars. Most are made of just fruit and nuts plus other ingredients I might find in my pantry or refrigerator.

Poptart, I think you should try eating more at breakfast and maybe different food. Your lightheadedness could be from not eating real food moreso than not eating enough food. See this.

[finallyfull]

I am never hungry when I wake up, and it often takes me two to three hours to feel hungry. Who cares? I call "breakfast" my first meal of the day, and I usually eat it at 9 or 9:30, when I feel hungry but not starving. (If I wait till starving I find myself getting into a bad pattern.) I think most people can find an unobtrusive way to eat a bagel & cream cheese and a banana or some other pre-prepared quick meal that they can eat at work or just before work, or even on the way to work when they first feel hungry. I never eat "fast food" or packaged bars or whatever, because I am thrifty and because I feel like it's a scam. What's "faster" than two bananas and a hunk of cheddar or a yogurt? Even a pre-made peanut butter & jelly on wheat with milk would be super fast.

What I'm trying to say is: eat a good breakfast at the first sign of morning hunger, whenever that is for you.

The reason I emphasize switching to pre-made quick easy food at home is that, when I get hungry, I can easily lie to myself that I don't have time to eat real food, but logic does not bear that out.

As for not eating breakfast at all, I think that can give a false sense of "virtue" at being able to say "I'm not hungry" and then "have" to eat even more, later. In fact, from my observations of self, friends, and family, those who "don't eat breakfast" are very likely to feel like that is the only time of day they can enjoy the sensation of not being controlled by food. That's an awesome feeling for someone who is often bossed around by food, so it's easy to get pulled into. This is a set-up, though, because if delayed too long an all-day deficit feeling can set in and we'll eat way more all day than we would have at breakfast. But if we TAKE control, and eat as soon as the body asks for it (not before) then we start out the day as boss and that truly carries over throughout the day. No more 11 a.m. pseudo-emergency. Just the fake munchies of habit, easily stared down by the real boss, the one who at a PB & J at 9:30 a.m.

[Nichole]

Hmmmm, I personally wake up around 6, get ready until 6:30ish, do my 45 minute commute... I have my coffee with skim milk and splenda. Then I finally eat around 8 am. It's usually oatmeal with cinnamon.

Around 10, I have a banana. Then lately lunch, around 11 am - 12 pm, has been two pieces of whole wheat toast and steamed vegetables. That keeps me good for a while, then I eat a 1/2 cup of unsweetened apple sauce and/or PLAIN yogurt with granola around 2... Then dinner is around 6:30/7ish.

[Poptart]

Poptart, I think you should try eating more at breakfast and maybe different food. Your lightheadedness could be from not eating real food moreso than not eating enough food. See this.

Wosnes this link was great, i totally relate to this as I am a fast food junkie who hates that toxic hunger feeling. i want to start eating real food and it is stupid, but it is a new concept since living on my own, seemed to eat regular food as a kid but once i left home it became my style to eat crap, and the more crap i ate, the more the cravings came. junk food does make me hungry within a few hours. And the Zone bars are going to be hard to quit, it has been my breakfast, or quick snack for so long. i will not cook in the morning, so driving to work with coffee and the bar became my habit. hmmm, have to come up with some grab and go stuff that i can eat in the car! also wosnes, i see you limit meat, and i want to do that also, what is your main protein source, i want to limit meat but can i just drink a milk with my meals to make up the protein? it has to be easy because cooking complicated stuff is not likely to happen. thanks!

[kccc]

If you want grab-and-go breakfast ideas, you can cruise the daily threads and the "intelligent dietary defaults" thread for ideas.

I get up at 6, but don't eat breakfast until about 8:30. I drink 2 cups of coffee (really cafe au lait - there's about a cup of mil between my two cups of coffee) on the way to the gym near work, and eat breakfast at my desk after I exercise and dress. So, I usually pack oatmeal.

But if you're in the car...here are some options
- Bananas, apples, pear... other hand-held fruit
- Bagel, with cheese, cream cheese or PB (there's some protein for you!)
- Peeled boiled egg and some sort of bread (English muffin, slice of toast)
- Cheese and crackers
- PB&J Sandwich. Who says you can only eat certain foods at breakfast?

Hope this gives you some ideas. If you can wait until you get to work, the options broaden out even more - yogurt, oatmeal, etc.

Good luck!

[Poptart]

Hope this gives you some ideas. If you can wait until you get to work, the options broaden out even more - yogurt, oatmeal, etc.

Good luck!

KCCC do you bring your oatmeal already made and warm it up, or make it at work? Is it instant? Thanks for the suggestions.

[wosnes]

I'm not KCCC, but I used to take oatmeal to work for breakfast. I packed the uncooked oatmeal and water in a container and cooked it in the microwave at work.

[oolala53]

I think I read that Reinhard takes oatmeal flakes to work for lunch. He just puts them in a bowl with hot water from a hot tap on the water "cooler" and lets it sit. I tried it. It actually works. I keep some at work with yeast powder, protein powder and dried vegetables for emergencies.

[wosnes]

also wosnes, i see you limit meat, and i want to do that also, what is your main protein source, i want to limit meat but can i just drink a milk with my meals to make up the protein? it has to be easy because cooking complicated stuff is not likely to happen. thanks!

I think that's the first time I've ever been asked that question! I don't make any conscious effort to include animal protein in my diet. I may have some dairy or eggs, but usually not daily.

I don't often eat breakfast, but when I do it's usually whole grain toast and either in season fruit or a smoothie. The smoothie might have some milk or yogurt in it, but not always. Occasionally I'll have an egg.

Lunch is nearly always homemade vegetable/bean soup with bread and maybe a salad or raw vegetables on the side. I may sprinkle some cheese on top of my soup. Occasionally I'll have a main dish salad or a sandwich. They may or may not include some protein from animal sources.

Dinner is usually a serving of meat, salad and another vegetable plus a starch.

The way I eat is very similar to the "vegan before six" way of eating Mark Bittman talks about in Food Matters. I've just been doing it longer! I got the idea from a little story I read in Dr. Andrew Weil's Eating Well for Optimum Health. While many days are vegan until six, a good number are vegetarian until six.

Plant foods are high in protein, just not complete proteins. For instance, ounce for ounce, broccoli has more protein than sirloin steak. If you eat some grains or beans in addition to the broccoli, you'll get a complete protein. The interesting thing is that they don't even need to be consumed at the same meal -- or even in the same day.

I've read that as long as you're eating a variety and enough (real) food to support your calorie needs, you'll get enough protein and don't need to worry about animal sources of protein. The variety doesn't have to be huge, either. I'm not fond of grains, so I don't eat a lot of them and I don't use soy products.

By the way, the soups I make are extremely easy to make. I put a cup of beans and 4-5 cups hot water in my slow cooker. I usually add an onion, some carrots and celery. After that has cooked a couple of hours I add some tomato produce (paste, sauce or diced tomatoes) and other seasonings. I may add some greens during the last hour or so of cooking. The whole thing cooks in four hours on high. Sometimes it's done before, but I just let it go the four hours. I typically make soup once or twice a week.

I usually do this in the morning, but it could be started at supper and be finished at bedtime and be ready to refrigerate and take to work the next day.

[kccc]

Hope this gives you some ideas. If you can wait until you get to work, the options broaden out even more - yogurt, oatmeal, etc.

Good luck!

KCCC do you bring your oatmeal already made and warm it up, or make it at work? Is it instant? Thanks for the suggestions.

I use regular oats and milk, and mix them in equal proportions the night before (mostly because I don't have time in the mornings), usually with some cinnamon thrown in. By the morning, the oats are nice and soft. I can warm them in the microwave, but I often eat them cold, like a Muesli. (I always top with fruit, too - banana, lately, but it's been different things.)

It's one of those "healthy choices," but I eat it because I really LIKE it.

[Nichole]

I take a HUGE canister of quick 1-minute Quaker oats to work. It's nice to only pack for lunch. It lasts me quite a while, too. I usually make it in the microwave with milk and I heat it for 30 secs, mix, 30 more secs, mix... until it looks just right. I'm usually done in 1 minute and 15 seconds.

[wosnes]

it has to be easy because cooking complicated stuff is not likely to happen. thanks!

There are any number of cookbooks that concentrate of food that is made from (at least mostly) real ingredients and aren't difficult or have many recipes that aren't difficult. Mark Bittman's How to Cook Everything comes to mind.

There are also a number of web sites with good recipes -- again using mostly real food:

Cheap, Healthy, Good

Simply Recipes

The Pioneer Woman Cooks She has step-by-step photos for each recipe.

Kayln's Kitchen Hers are South Beach Diet friendly. I don't pay attention to that. There are some good recipes.

Kitchen Parade

Most have recipe designed to feed 4-6. I cook for one or two and cut them all in half.

Word of caution: don't confuse time-consuming with complicated. I just made some French Onion Soup. Easy as falling off a log -- but took about 1½ hours.

[Clarica]

I don't have a morning appetite at a convenient time, either, but my current schedule is so flexible that I can eat whenever. As for what, I don't really like most breakfast foods that well, either. so I just eat what I eat at other meals.

You might try making breakfast a longer meal. Get your plateful of food, and eat from it for an hour and a half or something. it'll probably be more than 200 calories, and it's the visual impact of plate=mealtimes that keeps it from being a snacking, hand-to-mouth kind of grazing thing. I dunno.

best of luck!

[ShannahR]

I don't have any personal experience with this--I am always hungry in the morning. However, I read somewhere (I can't find the link right now) that if the thought of eating and/or food in the morning makes you sick you are dehydrated. It was suggested in this article that if you drink a glass of water right when you wake up it will help solve this problem. Has anyone tried or considered that and does it work or not work ?

Just curious

[wosnes]

I'm almost never hungry in the morning. I never have been -- and I doubt that I've been dehydrated my entire life. I do drink water in the morning and it doesn't do a thing to my appetite.

[leafy_greens]

Zone bars are definitely sweets, and definitely not enough to constitute a meal.

[BrightAngel]

Zone bars are definitely sweets, and definitely not enough to constitute a meal.

Each of us has our individual opinions about various foods.
For myself, Zone bars are not sweets, and are sufficient for a small meal.
I've eaten a lot of Zone bars as meal replacements, usually lunch.
I liked the taste. They were filling. They had a lot of protein and fiber.
At present, I don't eat Zone bars, but that's because I got tired of them.

[sophiasapientia]

Well, based on what I've read in the book and heard in the podcasts, the official No S line is pretty anti-diet bar.

From the book:

Any diet that sells a bar or a snack food is a total scam. I'd rather eat a Snickers bar than a diet bar, because at least I'd be psychologically budgeting for it. Diet bars should be called "self deception bars." They legitimate the bad habit of snacking, indulge your self-destructive gluttony, and line the pockets of the enabling diet guru.

I see diet bars as one of those slippery slope items, like popsicles. Given that sugar is the principle ingredient in many diet bars, they easily fall into both the sweet and the snack categories. Granted, individuals need to decide if they want to eat them for themselves but it is best to do so knowing that, technically, they probably aren't the best choice on No S, for a variety of reasons. (I say this as someone who takes Splenda in her daily cup of coffee and drinks diet soda several times a week, neither of which are No S approved.)

[BrightAngel]

the official No S line

The "official No S line" is merely a reflection of Reinhard's personal food preferences.
He created the diet and wrote the book,
but that doesn't make his specific individual food preferences the better choice.

[sophiasapientia]

The "official No S line" is merely a reflection of Reinhard's personal food preferences.
He created the diet and wrote the book,
but that doesn't make his specific individual food preferences the better choice.

Yes, but these Boards are meant to be a support network for those who are trying to follow the No S diet. Reinhard is completely open to folks modifying the plan to work for them but these are his Boards, based on his book. There are 1,000s of support forums for folks who are following calorie counting diets and the like but there are less than a handful for individuals who are trying to do No S. If we can't tout the official line here, where can we tout it?

Given that, folks can decide for themselves what they want to eat and drink. And I drink diet soda but I'm not going to blantantly encourage No S newbies to drink it because, first of all, it seems a little disrespectful and, second of all, diet soda is -- not unlike diet bars -- junk, IMO.

[leafy_greens]

"Junk" (whatever that means to you) is allowed on No S, however. As long as it fits within the three S's. Whether diet coke fits within sugar vs. sweet is another topic altogether. I would say that if you can control your diet coke consumption, just like regular meal foods, it's fine. The problem comes if diet coke triggers you into sweets binging, then I would say it's a sweet and should be avoided. This is one of those items that is going to be different for each person.

[oolala53]

I know Reinhard calls all meal bars junk, but if you've ever had a Zone bar, I doubt you would call it a sweet. It has about the same amount of sugar as a couple of cups of coffee with sugar and is definitely not like a lot of the others. The reason I don't eat them or most meal bars is pretty much for the same reason some people prefer them. They encourage hurrying with food and eating a relatively hefty amount of calories with carbs in a dense form. If you were to eat whole food with the same nutritional content, you would have a lot more volume, which is part of why humans eat. That being said, if a person takes her time, chews well, is satisfied and not induced to eat two or three of them or follow up with a cinnamon roll or donut, as some of us would, who's to say? Reinhard says that he keeps oatmeal at work which he can down quickly enough that there is time for a walk at lunch. I know I would never be happy with that. But, the original questioner asked for advice from those with more experience with No S and people have contributed.

Reinhard also says that shame will keep a person from heaping too much on his one plate meal after meal, never mind twice or three times. Clearly, he has not spent much time eating at Home Town Buffet, but he also admits he is not a doctor, nutritionist, or psychologist, so if a person has a problem with food such that he may be better served by using their services, he should.

I have definitely had a problem with overeating junk, but it's down to one day a week from No S, and I'm willing to keep working with this system because it has been so effective the rest of the week.

I affirm that all of us will find the right way to achieve a healthy, satisfying weight with joyful eating.

[satikat]

I do not like cooking breakfast. I just want to eat when I get hungry (usually an hour after I wake up, but that time gets shorter as I eat more reasonably at dinner the night before).

I also don't really get enough protein.

I usually make a fruit smoothie with a scoop (or two) of protein powder. I use Designer Whey because it has no artificial sugar and dissolves well. each scoop is about 100 calories, so that with skim milk and a 1-2 servings of fruit equals 4-500 calories and about 1/2 the recommended protein for the day.

I usually keep blueberries in the freezer, they can be added directly to smoothies or oatmeal. 1cup= 1 serving. Bananas tend to be a staple in my house too!

A suggestion for how to coordinate this in the morning- put your fruits in the freezer all cut up. put them in the blender or food processor in the am, add your protein (egg whites work well too, but don't have as much protein as the powder) and liquid and blend for 1-2 minutes. You really don't get much quicker than that!