No S days?

[Imogen Morley]

I've been away for a while (the usual busy schedule + a lovely dream trip to Sweden!), neglecting both the forum and my check-ups. I also fell off the wagon several times. But I'm back, determined

I know that S days should be a "safety valve", but I personally believe that some of us are abstainers and better off quitting addictive-like things altogether than spending all the energy (which could be used in a more productive way) fighting to be moderate. I'm thinking of swearing off sweets and other trigger foods (pizza, for example), so that I have one simple rule to follow: "you just don't eat them". I've done this before and it worked like a charm. I lost all interest in sugary or fatty foods (and shed some pounds too), but, more importantly, I wasn't struggling anymore, and it was unbelieveably freeing. I must note that I have a history of eating disorder (compulsive overeating), so that kinda explains why I sometimes have to use drastic measures.

Is anyone else doing it at the moment, practicing no S days?

[morningdove]

This is my first post here. I tend to agree with you. I've been doing no-s for about 7 weeks now with quite a few failed days. Most weekends I binge or just eat too much. I lost about 3 pounds within the first week or 2 and now every week I lose a couple of pounds during the N days and gain them right back on the weekend. I am not feeling like this is progress even though they say maintenance is progress. It is very unmotivating. More importantly, and to your point, I have never really believed in "free days". For me it just keeps reminding me of what I love and can't have right now. Waiting for the weekends works somewhat but I never lose that craving for sweets. The only time I have been able to lose a considerable amount of weight was when I didn't eat sweets at all. At first it was a little hard but then I lost my desire for them completely and it became quite easy. It was like when I started drinking diet soda in college. Twent-five years later and I still have no desire for sugary soda. Likewise, I have no desire for whole milk after drinking skim milk for so long. I just feel like the constant reminder of what you can't have keeps it always in the forefront.

[butterfly1000]

Waiting for the weekends works somewhat but I never lose that craving for sweets. The only time I have been able to lose a considerable amount of weight was when I didn't eat sweets at all. At first it was a little hard but then I lost my desire for them completely and it became quite easy.

I know what you mean. Last week I was doing reasonably well, and the scale was showing 2 lbs down, then I messed up so badly on the week-end that this morning the 2 lbs were back. You say that there was a time that you didn't eat any sweets at all -- were you able to maintain that on a long term basis? Did you have the occasional sweet, or none at all?

[oolala53]

There are many variables that go into determining how long it will take before a problem behavior can be overcome. Remember, we're talking about habit change here, not dieting. I'm 5 1/2 months into this and I'm just getting a handle on S days. Most of my N days have been compliant. As time has gone on, my tolerance for overeating sweets has gone way down. This from a woman who ate AT LEAST 1,000 calories a day of sweets for 80% of the last 35 years. Now the same behavior costs me a food hangover that made a big difference in my eating last weekend.

Pardon my asking, but if it was working so well to be abstinent from sugar, what made you start eating it again?

Truth is, the science shows that you either have to learn to eat sweets in moderation OR never eat them again. Trying to abstain completely for long periods of time sets it up to eat them compulsively. Then compulsively eating them is a stimulus-response reaction that gets stronger over time. So instead of it being it's all or nothing, it has to become it's SOME or nothing. Learning that increased my determination to learn to eat them moderately and No S sounded like the first system that made that doable, although I worried a lot about S days. It's also why I think No S has such a chance to work because you don't give up all rich food all week. All week every week your body is learning to deal with moderate amounts of rich food and it's likely less and less over time. That has got to carry over to sweets on the weekend. But the N days are key!

It IS easier to be 100% abstinent--until you aren't. I know that it is unlikely that I will never eat sweets again, so I choose to deal with what is likely in my life. I also fervently believe that I can make eating moderately a habit just as surely as eating compulsively was a habit. The trick this time was that I committed to No S FOR A YEAR. I accepted that no eating plan was likely to fall into place for me in a few weeks and then have it stay easy. I never before had the sense that I could commit to any other eating plan for a year. But this is possible, and it is changing all the time.

It is your choice not to eat sweets ever on No S if you really believe that will reinforce the permanent eating style you can live with. There are a lot of people here who say they have many weekends come and go without sweets, but it's because they have lost the need, not because they made a rule. You have to have something to reward yourself with and it probably needs to be food. Do you think that being able to have snacks and seconds will be enough to balance the discipline of the week? Maybe it would be. Even though I love my N days, I still want my chocolate . But that may go away, too. I'm finding my S days are moving towards resembling N days just because I like it that way. Food just tastes better and I feel better. But it took 5 months and it's not over yet.

Depending on how long you have had issues with food and how connected food is to emotional issues for you, it may take longer to break the bond. Unless you truly believe that you will go the rest of your life without eating desserts, I encourage you to commit to three months of Vanilla No S before you start THINKING about modifying the plan. So, get your N days DOWN. I believe even then you'll give yourself more time because you'll see things are changing. And you can always get more strict later once you've learned some discipline.

Just my thoughts.

[Imogen Morley]

Answering your question: I thought that one bite wouldn't hurt, and in result proceeded to devouring a whole carton of ice cream It just felt too good to stop.

[kccc]

My thoughts are captured in the sticky on "Phases of No-S," if you haven't read it. The first step is habit formation.

And yes, the two steps forward and 1-2 steps back in terms of the scale can be frustrating. However, the establishment of N-day habit will provide a foundation for long-term success... whereas just cutting out everything lasts only for a while, until the pressure builds to an intolerable level.

S-days are like safety valves, so you don't get a major explosion. I don't advise skipping them. As you continue, you'll find that they become more moderate because excessive ones don't FEEL good anymore.

Just my .02.

Best wishes!

[OT]

I gave up sugar for lent as experiment 2 years ago and I haven't had it since.I never crave sweets.Although I agree that it's not a good idea to deprive yourself, sugar/sweets have absolutely no nutritional value so you are hardly depriving yourself of something your body actually needs!

[oolala53]

I had thousands of experiences in 40 years of saying I would have just one bite and then not stopping at a reasonable amount or even a mildly unreasonable amount. I know I am still at "during" here on No S and always will be, but those experiences are a fraction of what they used to be. I'm just saying it is possible for most people to learn to have reasonable portions of sweets and it may be too early to decide if you're one of them. Even the majority of "winners" of traditional dieting, the long-term maintainers, rarely have a sugar-abstinent one among them.

But go ahead and ban sweets totally, if you think that's better for you. Personally, I think starting with the mindset that you CAN"T control yourself around them and that you can't imagine EVER feeling that a serving was enough is unfortunate, but it's your prerogative. And it may even be true for you. I don't say everyone should be able to do it.

I doubt anyone would say that alcohol is NECESSARY for health, but most people don't ban it completely. They monitor their intake accordingly. IF they believe it's life or death or that it is ruining their life, they might quit entirely. If you think sugar plays the same role in your life, by all means, quit. Maybe this thread can be devoted to those who choose to have a "no exceptions" rule for sugar, or start a new thread on which you ask that it is not be an issue to be debated, but just a support for those feel they need it. In any case, I think the majority of the NO S plan will work for you and bring you more peace than you ever thought possible.

[Kathleen]

I just switched to one S Event on a weekend, but that was after almost two years of No S. It remains to be seen whether I can manage with an S Event rather than S Days, but I will say I'd rather be obese and not obsessed with food and not constantly on the edge of a binge than thin and constantly feeling like I'm starving.
Kathleen

[Starla]

One phrase that has helped me through 9+ months of No S is "rest of your life." I am very aware that any changes I am making have to be things I can maintain forever.

Only you can tell if "no sweets" is something you can live with forever. If it is, abstinence may work for you. But I know from my own experience that moderation CAN be learned, and I have to tell you it's a much better place to be. I have never enjoyed sweets as much as I do now, when I can eat them with pleasure instead of compulsion.

[JohnSnow]

IF you find that you tend to splurge on your S-days, then the logical thing to do is limit your splurging.

Something that can be helpful is to break the day in halves or thirds, and permit yourself 2 "1/2 days" or 4 "cheats" of "S-ing" or something similar. This is essentially a hard and fast (but slightly flexible) version of the "don't be an idiot" rule. And, there's no intrinsic reason these splurges have to be confined to Saturday and Sunday - spreading them out a bit is probably fine.

Adhering to the plan 12/14 of the time, or 17/21 of the time is pretty sustainable. The downside of spreading things out is that it's very easy for "it's okay to cheat today" to become "I can cheat all the time." The S-day thing is, by contrast, simple and straight-forward. But if you need more regular indulgences to "stick with the program," maybe it'll help.

I don't think any "cold turkey" plan will work long-term (meaning "forever") for most people. Human willpower isn't generally that strong. South Beach and many other diets try an approach like this. Of those you know who tried them, how many of them have stuck with it? For 5 years? 10?

My two cents.

[clarinetgal]

I suppose another idea is to try picking one meal where you have a little bit of sweets (say either lunch or dinner) and carve a spot for it on your plate. Once you're done with that sweet, that's it for the day. That's the aproach I use most of the time, and it does work for me most of the time. The trade off is, you don't have true S days, but I've found for me, that actually works better anyway. I also will sometimes 'virtual plate' my sweet, and eat it a couple of hours after lunch, while my son is napping.
However, it all boils down to what a couple of other posters have said, you need to find a way that will make this eating plan work for you for the rest of your life, and if that means giving up sweets permanently, then so be it.

[Imogen Morley]

Thanks for you thoughtful responses, guys.

I really do have problem with S days. I stuff myself silly just because I can and, you know, "OMG it's Sunday already and I won't be able to eat pizza/ice cream for the next 5 days! PIZZA! LOTS! NOW!". I guess you could call that the "Last Supper syndrome" Every weekend is a huge Bingefest. I've been thinking that maybe limiting my sweets and junk intake to two days a week is still a restriction I'm wildly rebelling against. Wandering S-events might work better... but I have an enormous problem stopping once I start eating something sugary/junky.

Another thing I'm struggling with: emotional eating. I'm not big on snacking and taking seconds, and I usually don't have problems with sticking to 3 meals routine... unless I get an intense emotion-triggered craving, which happens at least once a week (it's been rather stressful here lately).

These two things undermine all my weekday efforts and keep me stuck in an unhealthy eating pattern

[paulawylma]

Thanks for you thoughtful responses, guys.

I really do have problem with S days. I stuff myself silly just because I can and, you know, "OMG it's Sunday already and I won't be able to eat pizza/ice cream for the next 5 days! PIZZA! LOTS! NOW!".

I get the ice cream part, but not the pizza part. You can have pizza on N days. There is a problem with fitting large slices onto a normal plate, so when I first started No S I switched to Stoffer's French Bread Pizza. They come two to a box and I buy the peperoni and add other toppings like veggies on myself (you get more toppings that way and better pizza). You can fit two of these on a standard plate and that's very filling or you can eat one of them and fill the rest of the plate with whatever else you are craving. My first two weeks on No S I ate a french bread pizza with potato chips and beer almost every N day. After that I got tired of pizza and lately have been stir frying vegetables and lean meat for most nights. Not because it's healthy but because I actually got tired of chips and wanted more veggies.

My point is don't restrict your N days any more than necessary and your desperation on S days will probably decrease. Desperation on S days is part of diet mentality that will go away once your mind and body realizes that you are not restricting it any longer. There are no restricted foods per se on No S, only sweets. If you want chocolate, then try low sugar hot cocoa (make it yourself and add only the sugar/sweetner you would use in coffee or tea). If your are craving ice cream, try yogurt with fruit and teaspoon of honey (with a meal of cours) and remind yourself that it's only a few days before you can have the real thing.

This is what worked for me. IMHO restricting S days is not logical, easing up on your N days so that you don't feel deprived is logical. If you haven't listended to the podcasts, download the two episodes of "S days gone wild" before making any changes.

[Clarica]

Thanks for you thoughtful responses, guys.

but I have an enormous problem stopping once I start eating something sugary/junky.

It was hard to realize this, but for me, finishing something off was a habit. And habits are HARD to change. I had several techniques that helped me split things into servings, and also stop at one serving.

First, never eat out of the serving platter. Get a plate, get a bowl, put a full serving of whatever in it, every time. One spoonful is not a serving. Eat it all or not, but recognize and honor the serving. And the next one, if not stopping is still a habit.

For stopping after one serving, I had a couple of strategies or philosophies. One is eat it and out the door--as in plan the treats to right before I leave the house. Giving yourself something to do is fine, but if I remove myself from the situation, habit has to get me home again before it can work it's compelling magic on me. and the philosophy was if it didn't work the first time, try something else. This means that if I still want more after one serving, I have to have more of something else.

The eat it and out the door had the best effect on my habit, I am now able to have a chocolate from a dish and not go back for more just because it's there, because my habit says one is enough, because I would have one before I left.

anyway, best of luck!