Julia, to cut the long story short, after a conversation with a very wise person who used to have the same problems as we do, I've decided to have treats (S-events) whenever I feel like it, sort of "emergency safety valve", but eat them as slowly and mindfully as possible. I remember my experiments with mindful eating and they really did seem to help curb my seemingly unsatiable appetite for sugar. Allowing myself desserts when I really want them (not because it's Saturday or Sunday) should eliminate the problem of the Last Supper syndrome. And I know myself enough to know I won't binge or have desserts every day. I know it may seem counterintuitive, to have no restrictions other than 3 meals a day, no snacks and no seconds, but I'm going to give it a try.
Sorry if this post is a little chaotic!
Please Help! Desperate for S Days Perspective!
Moderators: Soprano, automatedeating
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paulawylma
- Posts: 92
- Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:56 am
- Location: Columbus OH
diet mentality
I think you are suffering from diet mentality. One of the great things about no S is that it can help people recover from diet mentality. In case you haven't heard the term before, "diet mentality" is a warped way of thinking that is common among dieters but is uncommon, even considered bizarre by non-dieters. Part of diet mentality is that sticking to a diet is "good" and that by suffering during the diet one "earns" the right to be "bad" once the diet is over. Another part of diet mentality is the idea that since dieting requires extreme self-control and suffering, going off the diet means total lack of control and unrestrained eating.
I may be wrong but it sounds as though that you are treating N days as though they are diet days and S days as though they are non-dieting days. In a sense, this is true, but actually S days are part of no S, so even on an S day, you are doing No S--they are exempt days.
You didn't say how long you have been doing No S and usually it's not recommended to worry about S days until you have your N days down. But your post sounds like you are using S days as a punishment not as a reward--that you are overstuffing yourself to the point where you feel bad. When a person goes off a restrictive diet, it is natural to go crazy and eat everything in site, because the restrictions of the diet caused, well, hunger.
The part that is confusing to me is that No S is not a restrictive diet. The only things that are restricted on a N days are snacks, seconds and sweets. You can fill up your plate during your meals (usually 3 but sometimes people use 2 or 4 meals instead) so that you don't feel hungry. You can eat fatty foods, you can satisfy your sweet tooth with fruits and fruit juice. You can eat carbs, fats, proteins and even sugar in reasonable amounts (as long as it not so much to become a sweet). So,
I suggest you look at your N days to find the root of your S day troubles. Are you being overrestrictive on N days? Are you hungry on N days-even after eating your meal? While it's okay and even natural to be hungry right before it's time for a meal, if you are getting hungry more than an hour before a meal, then you may need to eat more at meals.
The most important thing in No S is establishing good habits, not achieving quick weight loss. Concentrate on building good habits, not the scale. Plain vanilla NO S is a great way to get rid of the diet mentality. On N days, don't be over-restrictive. Fill your plate and eat until you are full (but not uncomfortably stuffed). If you are tempted by sweets, freeze it until the next S day. On S days, follow the general 3 meal pattern but allow yourself seconds and snacks and have a sweet treat for desert.
The reference in your post to eating past the point of comfort is a symptom of the diet mentality. Non dieters (and experienced No S dieters) don't eat past the point of comfort, why should we? I love feeling good and I hate feeling bad--this is natural. Why would I want to feel pain? A frequent dieter that is suffering from diet mentality wants to overeat-even to the point of pain because they know that once the party is over, it's back to suffering. But the No S diet isn't suffering, No S doesn't require hunger or temporary starving. No S doesn't require that you forgoe any particuliar food or food group. No S only asks that we delay sweets until the next S day.
Still, if you are feeling deprived on N days, and you have not added any extra rules, then perhaps you should ease up and follow only two of the three rules for a couple of weeks and then add the third rule in. I agree with Reinhard podcasts on S days gone wild that if you are having problems with S days, then look at your N days first. The problem is most likely to be there. If you haven't listened to the podcasts, I suggest you download them and listen. The "S days gone Wild" are 2 podcasts that are back to back.
Good luck.
I may be wrong but it sounds as though that you are treating N days as though they are diet days and S days as though they are non-dieting days. In a sense, this is true, but actually S days are part of no S, so even on an S day, you are doing No S--they are exempt days.
You didn't say how long you have been doing No S and usually it's not recommended to worry about S days until you have your N days down. But your post sounds like you are using S days as a punishment not as a reward--that you are overstuffing yourself to the point where you feel bad. When a person goes off a restrictive diet, it is natural to go crazy and eat everything in site, because the restrictions of the diet caused, well, hunger.
The part that is confusing to me is that No S is not a restrictive diet. The only things that are restricted on a N days are snacks, seconds and sweets. You can fill up your plate during your meals (usually 3 but sometimes people use 2 or 4 meals instead) so that you don't feel hungry. You can eat fatty foods, you can satisfy your sweet tooth with fruits and fruit juice. You can eat carbs, fats, proteins and even sugar in reasonable amounts (as long as it not so much to become a sweet). So,
I suggest you look at your N days to find the root of your S day troubles. Are you being overrestrictive on N days? Are you hungry on N days-even after eating your meal? While it's okay and even natural to be hungry right before it's time for a meal, if you are getting hungry more than an hour before a meal, then you may need to eat more at meals.
The most important thing in No S is establishing good habits, not achieving quick weight loss. Concentrate on building good habits, not the scale. Plain vanilla NO S is a great way to get rid of the diet mentality. On N days, don't be over-restrictive. Fill your plate and eat until you are full (but not uncomfortably stuffed). If you are tempted by sweets, freeze it until the next S day. On S days, follow the general 3 meal pattern but allow yourself seconds and snacks and have a sweet treat for desert.
The reference in your post to eating past the point of comfort is a symptom of the diet mentality. Non dieters (and experienced No S dieters) don't eat past the point of comfort, why should we? I love feeling good and I hate feeling bad--this is natural. Why would I want to feel pain? A frequent dieter that is suffering from diet mentality wants to overeat-even to the point of pain because they know that once the party is over, it's back to suffering. But the No S diet isn't suffering, No S doesn't require hunger or temporary starving. No S doesn't require that you forgoe any particuliar food or food group. No S only asks that we delay sweets until the next S day.
Still, if you are feeling deprived on N days, and you have not added any extra rules, then perhaps you should ease up and follow only two of the three rules for a couple of weeks and then add the third rule in. I agree with Reinhard podcasts on S days gone wild that if you are having problems with S days, then look at your N days first. The problem is most likely to be there. If you haven't listened to the podcasts, I suggest you download them and listen. The "S days gone Wild" are 2 podcasts that are back to back.
Good luck.
The podcasts are GREAT. I also recommend the "Strictness" podcast, especially for beginners. The "non-retribution" section really spoke to me when I was starting.
And if you don't have the book, it's worth buying. Yes, most of the info is on the website, but it's nice to have it all together and portable. I bought a copy more as a "thank-you" to Reinhard than because I thought I needed it (it came out after I'd been doing No-S), and was surprised at how useful it was.
Good luck!!
And if you don't have the book, it's worth buying. Yes, most of the info is on the website, but it's nice to have it all together and portable. I bought a copy more as a "thank-you" to Reinhard than because I thought I needed it (it came out after I'd been doing No-S), and was surprised at how useful it was.
Good luck!!
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Imogen Morley
- Posts: 1022
- Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:11 pm
I don't really get weekend S-days, that's the thing, Julia. I don't know about you, but lots of my socializing falls on weekdays (and almost none of it on weekends) and these are the days when I'd like to be able to have a piece of cake with friends. When I follow the "orthodox" version of No S and choose weekends as S days, I stuff myself because "I can, it's allowed!", and in result I end up devouring birthday cakes on Tuesday or Wednesday - because I rebel against the rules that are not flexible enough and don't fit my lifestyle. I'm much more drawn to wosnes's "wandering S-events" idea. I'll try to have no more than 3-4 S-events per week, enjoy them to the fullest, and see if it works.
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Imogen Morley
- Posts: 1022
- Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:11 pm
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Imogen Morley
- Posts: 1022
- Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:11 pm
I think of S Days as a treat, not a binge. If you're deliberately trying to gorge yourself silly on sweets "just because you can" you're setting yourself up for a failure. If you want chocolate, have a chocolate. If you want seconds, have seconds. But ask yourself, "do I really WANT this, or I am doing it just because."
When I was doing well, on my S Days I'd go to the gourmet chocolate shop and have one or two chocolates, and maybe with dinner I'd snack beforehand or something. That, to me, was an S Day. Eating until I felt sick wasn't, and I don't think that's a good behavior on any day.
When I was doing well, on my S Days I'd go to the gourmet chocolate shop and have one or two chocolates, and maybe with dinner I'd snack beforehand or something. That, to me, was an S Day. Eating until I felt sick wasn't, and I don't think that's a good behavior on any day.
JuliaLovesVanilla,
Reinhard is encouraging of people to post modifications to vanilla No S because there i no one right way. You're looking for what doesn't exist. What does exist is what will work for you. As BrightAngel points out, we are all experiments of one. Each one of us is experimenting.
I never could get over bingeing on S Days. I thought I would, but the Sunday of Memorial Day weekend was yet another over the top binge day after nearly two years on the diet. The good news is that I switched to one S-Event this past Sunday, and it was just fine. I did have 1,050 calories in that one S-Event, but I don't think I will have as much next Sunday. It would have been more pleasant if I had skipped the 550 calorie chocolate bar and just enjoyed the 500 calorie Starbucks drink. I think I need a reliable experience of a treat once per week, but that treat does not need to be an all-day binge!
Whether this approach of an S-Event would work for you remains to be seen. You can try it!
There are people who have lost 100+ pounds following an approach of, "Do I really want that?' Frankly, I don't even want to be asking myself that question. I want to have a reliable treat. I summarize all those diets of gauging hunger and asking myself if I really want something and putting little hurdles in front of me to earn a treat in one word: belly-gazing. It's much easier for me just to rule out treats except at designated times. But that's me. If asking yourself if you want really want something works for you, great! If not, you can try the S-Event idea.
Kathleen
Reinhard is encouraging of people to post modifications to vanilla No S because there i no one right way. You're looking for what doesn't exist. What does exist is what will work for you. As BrightAngel points out, we are all experiments of one. Each one of us is experimenting.
I never could get over bingeing on S Days. I thought I would, but the Sunday of Memorial Day weekend was yet another over the top binge day after nearly two years on the diet. The good news is that I switched to one S-Event this past Sunday, and it was just fine. I did have 1,050 calories in that one S-Event, but I don't think I will have as much next Sunday. It would have been more pleasant if I had skipped the 550 calorie chocolate bar and just enjoyed the 500 calorie Starbucks drink. I think I need a reliable experience of a treat once per week, but that treat does not need to be an all-day binge!
Whether this approach of an S-Event would work for you remains to be seen. You can try it!
There are people who have lost 100+ pounds following an approach of, "Do I really want that?' Frankly, I don't even want to be asking myself that question. I want to have a reliable treat. I summarize all those diets of gauging hunger and asking myself if I really want something and putting little hurdles in front of me to earn a treat in one word: belly-gazing. It's much easier for me just to rule out treats except at designated times. But that's me. If asking yourself if you want really want something works for you, great! If not, you can try the S-Event idea.
Kathleen
I've been (successfully) NoSing for almost 2 years now. At the beginning, I did have uncomfortable S days. Not really bingeing--that has never been a problem--but eating past the point of comfort. Usually in the form of "one last piece of dessert" after already HAVING a nice meal and dessert.JuliaLovesVanilla wrote: I was feeling ill but still making myself eat them because I wouldn't have another chance to do that for 5 days!
After I realized that I was going for "one more piece" merely because "I can't have any for another week", I learned to change my mental soundbites. I started *consciously* saying to myself "No, I don't need more--I get to have xxxx again in just 5 days!". A semantic difference that *did* make a difference...
FWIW,
Vicki in MNE
7! Yrs. with Vanilla NoS, down 55+lb, happily maintaining and still loving it!
7! Yrs. with Vanilla NoS, down 55+lb, happily maintaining and still loving it!
Julia, everyone has given you really good advice so not much to add really 
.
Just one thing: GIVE IT TIME. I think from your post that perhaps you're very eager & enthusiastic for NoS to work & to work quickly. The problem with NoS- which is actually though why it works so well- is that it relies on time passing & helping you establish those habits. You say you've been doing NoS for a month. Well that's not nearly enough time, I feel, to have an accurate idea of how your S days are looking. You might be surprised & find that 3 months down the line your S days are naturally improved. Or maybe not & then you may need to be proactive & add a small moderation for S days. But wait & see. For the moment I would suggest you really concentrate only on N Days, get those down & established & then you can go from there.
.Just one thing: GIVE IT TIME. I think from your post that perhaps you're very eager & enthusiastic for NoS to work & to work quickly. The problem with NoS- which is actually though why it works so well- is that it relies on time passing & helping you establish those habits. You say you've been doing NoS for a month. Well that's not nearly enough time, I feel, to have an accurate idea of how your S days are looking. You might be surprised & find that 3 months down the line your S days are naturally improved. Or maybe not & then you may need to be proactive & add a small moderation for S days. But wait & see. For the moment I would suggest you really concentrate only on N Days, get those down & established & then you can go from there.
Restarting NoS (after going back & forth over the last 4 years) in November 2013.
GOAL: to lose 10 kilos.
HAVE ACHIEVED SO FAR: 1.6 kilo
GOAL: to lose 10 kilos.
HAVE ACHIEVED SO FAR: 1.6 kilo
I agree with Cassie: Give it time. I didn't marry until I was in my 30s, and I used to tell my father: "It's easy to get married. The trick is staying married." Just so, I think it's relatively easy to lose weight. How many of us have succeeded at losing weight? The trick is keeping it off, and this diet is a way to lose weight permanently because you eat less out of habit rather than out of willpower. The excessive eating on the weekend, particularly at the beginning, is the means to establish moderate eating during the week. Eventually, I gave up one S Day (Saturday), and now I'm having only one treat on Sundays (that's my S-Event). When I first started, there were times when I would literally wait up Friday night until midnight so I could start pigging out. In fact, I once had an unwrapped Haagen Dazs bar in my hands, waiting for the digital clock to read 12:00!
It's OK. Focus first on normalizing N Day eating.
Kathleen
It's OK. Focus first on normalizing N Day eating.
Kathleen
Feel free to totally blow off everything I say, because my experience has been very different from yours.
From the very beginning I relied on the statement "You cannot fail on S days!" That doesn't mean I didn't eat a lot on S days; it just means I didn't worry about it. I read your posts and the posts of other people worrying about S days, and they're just so full of stress! It's as if Diet Head is coming back on S days, which totally negates the purpose of the S days in the first place. They're supposed to function as a release of stress, not a cause of it! My S days naturally moderated, but I can't believe they would have if I had paid so much attention to them! In fact, I doubt if I could have stayed on No S if I was stressing out every weekend over what I was eating.
I feel so bad to see you struggling with something that is supposed to be pleasurable. I agree with every one who has recommended giving it time. Go back to Square One, work on your N days, enjoy your S days and try to really believe that you cannot fail on S days!
I wish you all the best; your effort and hard work are inspirational.
From the very beginning I relied on the statement "You cannot fail on S days!" That doesn't mean I didn't eat a lot on S days; it just means I didn't worry about it. I read your posts and the posts of other people worrying about S days, and they're just so full of stress! It's as if Diet Head is coming back on S days, which totally negates the purpose of the S days in the first place. They're supposed to function as a release of stress, not a cause of it! My S days naturally moderated, but I can't believe they would have if I had paid so much attention to them! In fact, I doubt if I could have stayed on No S if I was stressing out every weekend over what I was eating.
I feel so bad to see you struggling with something that is supposed to be pleasurable. I agree with every one who has recommended giving it time. Go back to Square One, work on your N days, enjoy your S days and try to really believe that you cannot fail on S days!
I wish you all the best; your effort and hard work are inspirational.
Re: Please Help! Desperate for S Days Perspective!
I know it's hard to believe right now (you're in the early stages, and there's no getting around the fact that NoS can be tough at the start, though worth it!), but what you've said there is actually an incredibly positive sign. That process of getting used to eating less, and feeling over-full when you try to eat as much as you used to, is what leads to S days naturally becoming less excessive over time (for many people). It's part of why you should give the default plan a good long time to get established, focusing mainly on getting your N day habits absolutely in place, before you panic about S days.JuliaLovesHabit wrote:The last weekend I felt physically bad from overeating "trying to get as much in as I could". My stomach is shrinking from successful N days and I SHOULD be glad, but I'm lamenting not being able to hold as much on my S days!
A few months down the road, if your S days are still so excessive, you *might* want to revisit the idea of imposing some additional restrictions. But for a lot of people, that sensation of being over-full, along with the habit of eating moderately all week and the fact that it just takes less sugar to make you feel "treated" than it used to, will lead to S days being less over-the-top, without needing any special extra rules. If you feel horrible and over-stuffed after your S days, eventually you'll start to ease off -- your body will realize "This is ridiculous" and start to adjust its demands. (Again, this is *often* what happens, though some people find that it doesn't. But they should wait a good long while, at least many months of solid "vanilla" NoS, before concluding that it's not happening for them.)
Good luck! You're doing fine.
Last edited by DaveMc on Mon Jun 21, 2010 7:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Dear Julia Loves Vanilla,
I don't know if this will help you, but I was having some of the same trouble in that I didn't get much dessert at all when I first started doing vanilla NoS. I had such a hard time getting my body to adjust to 3 meals a day that I never snack, and after eating dinner there wasn't much room for dessert even on S days.
Instead of doing 2 S days a week, I do 3 S meals spread throughout the week. I am not suggesting you do that, because it sounds like your S days are far too important to you to mess with them! But once a week, I have a dessert lunch. I drink a small whey protein shake mixed only with water and ice, because otherwise I can't tolerate just having sweets for lunch, and then I eat something indulgent and wonderful. I plan this dessert lunch by daydreaming about it all week. This way, I can eat plenty of dessert and I haven't spoiled my appetite by trying to eat lunch, too! It has worked well for me to do this.
May not work for you, but it's kind of a novel approach.
Sherry
I don't know if this will help you, but I was having some of the same trouble in that I didn't get much dessert at all when I first started doing vanilla NoS. I had such a hard time getting my body to adjust to 3 meals a day that I never snack, and after eating dinner there wasn't much room for dessert even on S days.
Instead of doing 2 S days a week, I do 3 S meals spread throughout the week. I am not suggesting you do that, because it sounds like your S days are far too important to you to mess with them! But once a week, I have a dessert lunch. I drink a small whey protein shake mixed only with water and ice, because otherwise I can't tolerate just having sweets for lunch, and then I eat something indulgent and wonderful. I plan this dessert lunch by daydreaming about it all week. This way, I can eat plenty of dessert and I haven't spoiled my appetite by trying to eat lunch, too! It has worked well for me to do this.
May not work for you, but it's kind of a novel approach.
Sherry