2 competing ideas

No Snacks, no sweets, no seconds. Except on Days that start with S. Too simple for you? Simple is why it works. Look here for questions, introductions, support, success stories.

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abelincoln
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2 competing ideas

Post by abelincoln » Thu Aug 28, 2014 5:49 pm

I hate it when I have two competing ideas in my head and I know one of them is better for the long term and one is better in the short run. now the five bite diet described by Dr Lewis in a book that I didn't read I only watched YouTube video describes losing pounds per day and some cases in the no s diet I haven't lost pounds in a week and I feel like I am more overweight than some on this bulletin board I am 294 pounds which makes me feel like I need to lose it efficiently and fast as dr. Lewis describes I know no one is pulling my strings and it is all in my head as to what to do, but it really gets me though that I have to work so hard to lose it under the no s diet but I know there is no free lunch and a matter of fact is that it is hard to socially go through a diet that only allows 5 bites twice a day matter of fact I can't even eat out with my family so social is the reason that is keeping me on the no s diet right now.

That and I feel a sincereness coming from this diet and I have pledged to everybody I know that I will continue on this diet

I think its just my mind playing tricks on me making it sound like I am working so hard currently on no s and wouldn't have to the other way so I suppose if I wanted to work less I could take out the exercise but I know my body needs it anyway

Its weird all of the things I was so proud on no s when I look through the other prism look pathetic and weak

But I have been skinny before and every time I do get that way I always find an excuse to turn around and come back to being fat again there have even been times where I was skinny enough to be happy but because of my mind tricks I felt like I was still fat and so I went back to eating again because it wasn't good enough for me I need to understand that this is good enough for me it's just that at the current time at 294 it feels pretty heavy but I was 315 2 months ago

Anyway I'm going to have an s day on Saturday and Sunday and hopefully I don't overdo it. I look forward to eating family meals together with my family my wife has even taken to eating like me on the no s diet

I know no way she would ever do five bites a day twice a day and I don't want to steer her wrong either
Last edited by abelincoln on Fri Aug 29, 2014 12:14 am, edited 2 times in total.

abelincoln
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Post by abelincoln » Thu Aug 28, 2014 5:58 pm

pS I have always felt a bit on the girly side for a man sort of like a girly man even though I'm a pretty tough guy it sort of fazed me when I started doing shovel glove and right after that Thor was declared to be a girl in Marvel Comics I know this has no bearing on me but it just felt sort of like a confirmation of what people might think about me I am skinny lad bone wise

Image
Last edited by abelincoln on Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.

ironchef
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Post by ironchef » Thu Aug 28, 2014 11:26 pm

Could you live on 5 bites or whatever other "fast" program for ever? For life?If yes, fine. If not, I would say avoid. A "fast" and extreme system will stress your system out with a sudden drop, followed by a regain when you stop and go back to "normal" eating. All that effort and willpower just to feel defeated again in 6 months time?

One or two pounds a week is usually the maximum recommended for healthy loss of body fat, without too much accompanying muscle loss.

If you are losing, albeit slowly, on No S, stick with it. If you aren't losing at all, look at the size of the plates you are serving and be truly honest with yourself about whether you are arriving at each meal hungry.

Eventually, consider introducing some of Reinhard's exercise systems (Urban Ranger, Shovelglove, 14 minutes of anything) to deal with the other side of the equation.

When you have been reading a bunch of other stuff, go back to the No S Diet main page or the book and read Reinhard's words. Or check out his podcasts, they are really excellent.

abelincoln
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Post by abelincoln » Fri Aug 29, 2014 12:05 am

Thanks for the confirmation... the stress would have got me.

I warded off thoughts of switching today.

It really is true that its easy to gain the weight back after a diet like that

Travis

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Blithe Morning
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Post by Blithe Morning » Fri Aug 29, 2014 12:45 am

Hi Travis. First of all, well done on avoiding the false promise of the quick and permanent weight loss today.

Second, you recently lost, what was it? 20lbs? Measurable AND visible! Do you really want to risk undoing all that hard work by buying into a gimmicky diet like the 5 bite diet? Especially given your past history? Hello! They are lying to you!!

Third, as you pointed out No S makes it possible for you to eat with your family and at other social occasions without weirdness around food.

This is especially important as you have young children and they are forming their concepts of what is normal. Three reasonable meals a day is normal. Five bites twice a day is not. Obsession with food is not normal either. Appreciation, anticipation, delight, yes. Obsession, no.

Trust the process. Trust that you will eventually move - sometimes rapidly, sometimes two steps forward/one step back, sometimes by inches - towards finding the kind and quantity of food that nourishes you emotionally and physically so that you are healthy in every sense.

You don't need people with Dr in front of their names to reveal the latest nutritional wisdom. Quite honestly, you can eat perfectly healthy with everything you knew by 5th grade.

And finally, fourth, that Thormodel is ridiculous. Not the woman, but the clothes, the pose, the way she is holding the sledge hammer. I'm guessing making Thor a woman is really about gender bending or else giving a dominatrix vibe to the whole thing for the older comic reader.

abelincoln
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Post by abelincoln » Fri Aug 29, 2014 12:56 am

I dont know about thor, but yes i lost weight on no s and im sure the guy is lying because he says there is 100% success. But people who use the habitcal have a way of looking at things where yes, if you have 100% compliance you might be successful, but who really has 100% compliance.

That dr made it sound like there was 100% success. Im sure there was if you measured only the success of those patients who were fully compliant.

The dr was probably just building a following so he can make me fork it over, and praise him so more people will fork it over

I dont mind commerce as long as its a sturdy structure.

Most times when ive been on a diet like that its a house of cards

As ironchef said, you gotta commit for life.

At least if you dont want bariatric surgery

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Over43
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Post by Over43 » Fri Aug 29, 2014 2:15 am

Travis, read The Paradox of Choice. And, Thor never looked like that. But I like the new look.

Edit: I just looked up the five bite diet, I had never heard of it before. First, Dr. Oz highlited it. Personally I would like to see the great and powerful Oz live on ten bites of food a day. (Actually, if I were giving strikes, anything associated with Doc Oz would be strikes 1-2-3 all in one.)

Travis, I understand the frustration, and it is easy to tell some else to be patient, but I personally have a tough enough time with three full meals a day. I would have to be lost in the woods to stick to five bites, two meals a day.
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germanherman
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Post by germanherman » Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:09 am

Ah, the good old "have to lose weight fast"-problem.

Been there done that!

First: Bite counting can work and can help you losing your weight fast. I believe that "herbsgirl" even combined Bite-Counting with No S

That's the thread:
http://everydaysystems.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=9790

The 5 Bite diet by "Dr" Lewis is the most radical variant of this diet. He even suggest, that your Five bite could be 2 Snickers-Bars.

2 Snickers Bars are betwwen 500-600 kcal. That is a simple undereating, close to fasting. Of course you lose weight fast.

But the most important thing is: What weight do you lose?

Fat? - Yes
Water? - Yes
Muscles? - Yes

The first thing is what you want, the second two are what you want to avoid. The lost of muscles-mass is the single greatest danger of crash diets and most diet-fads. It is even greater than the other symptoms of the malnutrition. Beside dangers (like reducing your heart-muscle) you simply stepped in a trap.

Lets say you lose 4-5 pounds a week, around 40-50% of the weight is muscle mass.

Problem is: You muscles are the part of you body, where the fat is burned. So you will start losing less fat. Your fatloss slows down (it gets harder to lose) and at the same time, because you lose the forming aspects of the muscles (Body firmness, stability) you keep looking fat (the so called skinny-fat look).

That is the reason, why in the longterm the fat-loss between a radical diet and an moderate diet evens out, but the moderate dieter look and be healthier, have a smaller risk for yoyo-effects and are less likly to fall back. Regarding the dreaded "last 5 pounds" the moderate approach is a lot easier, because you still got enough muscles to burn fat.

I lost very fast on the No S diet (Starting with 280 pounds as a male in his thirtys). I combined it with Slow-Eating, Urban Rangering and shovleglove and for the first months i lost around 2 Kg (4.6 pounds) a week. I lost muscle mass too, but not as much as on a radical diet, and it was easier to keep going and finally to recover the muscles.

You have to think in longterm-returns while dieting. Even more so, if you have to lose a lot of weight to your goal.
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wosnes
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Post by wosnes » Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:43 am

Travis, I agree with ironchef. Which one of those can you do for life? A piece of wisdom I once read: Start as you mean to continue.
"That which we persist in doing becomes easier for us to do. Not that the nature of the thing itself has changed but our power to do it is increased." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

"You are what you eat -- so don't be Fast, Easy, Cheap or Fake."

abelincoln
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Post by abelincoln » Fri Aug 29, 2014 12:18 pm

Thanks guys. Nice wisdom and suggestions

wosnes
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Post by wosnes » Fri Aug 29, 2014 12:35 pm

Something else to consider: slower weight loss tends to be more permanent weight loss. It just occurred to me that might be due, in part, because while losing the weight you're building the habit of eating well.
"That which we persist in doing becomes easier for us to do. Not that the nature of the thing itself has changed but our power to do it is increased." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

"You are what you eat -- so don't be Fast, Easy, Cheap or Fake."

abelincoln
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Post by abelincoln » Fri Aug 29, 2014 12:37 pm

Yes wosnes i believe thats true.

No s could probably stabilize me after the fact... but its really a disservice to the nos process to switch on/off of the diet

abelincoln
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Post by abelincoln » Fri Aug 29, 2014 1:06 pm

Hey german herman the lose weight fast program is what it is.

Of course it is seductive.... at least like you say its the most radical, so if i am able to get it out of my head, theres nothing thats as radical left to entice me

Also, nice to see another aaaaahhhhh, chubby? Person has succeeded with no s...

And dr lewis is 6 ft 137 lbs

In my circles i wouldnt probably be accepted at that weight... i once in younger years made it to 159, but i was really on fruit veg only and one day i had 13 cookies at an airport when i couldnt have access to the foods i had been living off

Shot right back up in a few weeks. Quicker than i lost it

Also not sure if it was related but i got rosacea shortly after

oolala53
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Post by oolala53 » Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:21 pm

If you want to learn to eat less permanently, No S has a better chance of helping you do that. Please remember the stats: "diets" have a notoriously high failure rate at getting people to eat less permanently. Though there are successes, the probability is even HIGHER that a person will weigh MORE two years after going on a diet. And how many examples in the world can you find for any group living on a "diet" anything like the ones sold on the market?

The people of Italy and France eat pretty much like N days most days. They have S days a few times a month. Are they all thin? No. But their obesity rates are a fraction of the US's, and their average BMIs are among the lowest in Europe despite their loving and having access to plenty of food-with low poverty rates (meaning poverty doesn't account for low weight). They love eating, just not overeating. In the meantime, the 5-bite diet will go on with about the success rate diets have been shown to have for the 150 years they've been tracked. Maybe 3% success over 5 years for just the right combination of motivation, ease, and conditions.

Just keep working towards eating a high proportion of real food, savoring your meals without getting stuffed, consistently moving moderately with some vigor thrown in, and expanding your life IN BETWEEN your meals. Try to enjoy the process. If you do that for a year, and your doctor is still worried, consider more stiff restrictions. Personally, I'd say those stiff restrictions should be to have to live in France for three months. I think insurance companies should consider that option. :wink:
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 9 years & counting
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Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
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There is no S better than Vanilla No S.

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Post by Dandelion » Mon Sep 01, 2014 12:23 am

Speaking of France - a friend (who, btw, has never heard of Nos) has recently moved to France. She mentioned there are signs everywhere cautioning people to avoid snacking - proclaiming that it is unhealthy and causes weight gain.

Interesting, no?
'I do think the way to a full and healthy life is to adopt the sensible system of small helpings, no seconds, no snacking, and a little bit of everything. Above all, have a good time.' Julia Child

oolala53
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Post by oolala53 » Mon Sep 01, 2014 3:36 pm

Yes, the French government is concerned because health care is socialized and they have counted for years on the low obesity rate and attendant lower rates of degenerative illnesses. Snacking could prove extremely expensive, as it has here.
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 9 years & counting
Age 65
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
Mar/18 22.2

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.

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