How do you call the end of a meal?

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jackn
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How do you call the end of a meal?

Post by jackn » Sun May 22, 2016 7:22 am

No-Seconds, No-Snacking - so, only meals.

How big a meal?
No-S solves this by stopping at a plate-size meal.

But, then, we decide what we serve on that plate just when about to have the meal.
This is when we're at our hungriest.
We might then find out that we've had enough before we've had all that's been served.

Thus, do you ever stop before clearing the plate?
If so, how do you call the end of the meal?
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

osoniye
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Post by osoniye » Sun May 22, 2016 2:47 pm

Hi Jackn-
Personally, I almost always finish the plate. I think "hungry" me is often right about how much I will need to keep me full until the next meal. I might take a few minutes' break from eating, and let what I've eaten so far settle. With the size plates I use, one plate of food is not too much food for me, ever, really. I'm not sure that really answers your question.
-Sonya
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jackn
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Post by jackn » Sun May 22, 2016 3:43 pm

Yes, it does, Osoniye, for sure.

And there's a tip there: the break.
Could be that, or slowing down, etc, to help gauge hunger.

That's exactly it: what might different people practice, that may suit others as well.
Thanx a bunch.
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Post by MaggieMae » Sun May 22, 2016 6:26 pm

My husband once pointed out that I give a deep sigh when I'm full. I hadn't noticed, but he was right! Now whenI do a deep sigh i stop and think about whether i am still hungry or ready to quit. I usually finish my plate at home because I'm pretty good at gauging how much I'll eat. When I eat somewhere else I very rarely finish. Restaurants just have too big of portions any more.

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Post by oolala53 » Sun May 22, 2016 6:57 pm

I tend to finish at home because my portions are reasonable. At restaurants, I tend to gauge as soon as I get the plate and divide it according to what I've learned is about right. Takes experience. But I am very likely to finish what I've allotted myself. I actually can't imagine leaving what I see other people, especially thin people, leave. :lol:
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Post by LoriLifts » Sun May 22, 2016 7:32 pm

I rarely have anything left on my plate. If it's on my plate, I eat it!

For awhile I experimented with smaller plates for breakfast or lunch. Seemed like I was eating about the same amount of food. I tended to have more "height" on the smaller plates!
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Post by kaalii » Sun May 22, 2016 8:32 pm

noS is actually teaching me to become pretty good at eyeballing my meal sizes... and at home we only have 8-9" plates...at work they are big...

but, yes, i rarely stop before i eat everything on it... and when i do, this is more to do with how much i dislike the particular food im eating than satiety...
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Post by Merry » Mon May 23, 2016 12:13 am

Usually the only time I stop before I finish is if I've put too much on my plate. I try to stop when I'm comfortable, but if it's really good, sometimes I still eat beyond that point (I did tonight--we got KFC which we almost never do! I didn't even get around to eating a biscuit, LOL, but I still ate slightly too much.)

I don't think I eat past "comfortable" as often as I used to. In fact, starting NoS is actually what made me start to recognize "comfortable" before it passed me by. I started to realize how much better it felt to be comfortable--it hadn't occurred to me how much I overate before. I used to kind of be "never full," or so I thought. Now I enjoy not being "overfull" so much.
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Post by Bullisaba » Mon May 23, 2016 2:47 am

Great question!

I eat what is on my plate 99% of the time. I know when I am full but will eat more if I am enjoying the meal.

I will also leave my favourite part of the meal to eat last. For example if I was having salmon and vegetables I would eat the veggies first and then the salmon. Maybe I should try eating the best part first.

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Post by jackn » Mon May 23, 2016 6:18 am

MaggieMae wrote:My husband once pointed out that I give a deep sigh when I'm full
Funny and instructive, MaggieMae.
Thanx.
MaggieMae wrote:When I eat somewhere else I very rarely finish.
Yet, it doesn't sound like the sigh is your red light when out.
Do you know how you can tell then?
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Post by jackn » Mon May 23, 2016 6:20 am

oolala53 wrote:At restaurants, I tend to gauge as soon as I get the plate and divide it according to what I've learned is about right.
I'd love to adopt this. Thank you kindly.
Also, echoes MaggieMae's restaurant experience.
We'll see how she goes about not clearing the plate when out.
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

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Post by jackn » Mon May 23, 2016 3:42 pm

kaalii wrote:at home we only have 8-9" plates...at work they are big...
At work, then, Kaali, it sounds, you do stop before it's all gone?!
If so, do you know how?
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Only eat at meals.

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Post by jackn » Mon May 23, 2016 3:49 pm

Merry wrote:I try to stop when I'm comfortable... I don't think I eat past "comfortable" as often as I used to. In fact, starting NoS is actually what made me start to recognize "comfortable" before it passed me by.
Sounds great, Merry.

If possible, I'd love to understand better what how you recognize 'comfortable' before it's not anymore. Is it a belly feeling, for example? In other words, how would you guide someone to recognize it the way you did once you started being more aware?
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Post by jackn » Mon May 23, 2016 3:52 pm

Bullisaba wrote:I know when I am full
Thank you, Bullisaba.

Precisely, how do you know?
How can someone else learn to tell as well as you seem to?
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

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kaalii
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Post by kaalii » Mon May 23, 2016 4:05 pm

jackn wrote:
kaalii wrote:at home we only have 8-9" plates...at work they are big...
At work, then, Kaali, it sounds, you do stop before it's all gone?!
If so, do you know how?
no, unless it is something i dont like...

but, with the big plates at work i serve myself first with the salad... at least half of the plate... and then there is actually not much more room to exaggerate with the rest...
if i did that with the small plates at home, id be starving... :D i eat the salad from the bowl at home... unless it has croutons, eggs, feta etc. in it - then it goes in the plate with the rest of the food...
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Post by leafy_greens » Mon May 23, 2016 4:28 pm

I eat til I'm slightly overfull, or I won't make it until the next meal.

It's a much different feeling than the intuitive eating systems which tell you to stop before you're full, but then just eat again whenever you want even though it's not meal time.
"No S IS hard... It just turns out that everything else is harder." -oolala53

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Post by jackn » Mon May 23, 2016 5:00 pm

kaalii wrote:at workwith the big plates at work i serve myself first with the salad... at least half of the plate... and then there is actually not much more room to exaggerate with the rest...
I see, Kaali.
So the plates become small enough, in effect.
At meals only eat.
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Post by jackn » Mon May 23, 2016 5:07 pm

leafy_greens wrote:I eat til I'm slightly overfull
I see, Leafy.
I never trusted myself to follow 'intuitive eating', though I have to say I don't know the approach in detail.
I'd love to move towards doing things with great ease and without planning or control, but I don't know that I'll ever get there.
Perhaps it's right for some and not for others, I don't know.

At this point, the rules help me and I feel I need them.
They feel nothing like a burden.

Thank you.
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

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Post by RAWCOOKIE » Mon May 23, 2016 8:16 pm

Interesting. I've been reading Gillian Riley's 'Eating Less' and she described how intuitive eating, knowing when you're hungry, when you're full - are extremely unreliable indicators for MOST people. Our 'natural feelings' are so intertwined with our conditioned responses that our brains simply cannot give us a 'true' indication of our appetite.

She suggests that before every meal you Plan what you are going to eat, and how much you are going to eat - so you know when the meal has ended. So - if you put your meal on the plate - and you have planned to eat it all - that's what you do, and when you've done that, you stop. For me this is a bit like 'no seconds'. I got myself a 9" plate quite early on in my No S journey, and use that for most of my meals (except ones that need a bowl due to being too runny for a plate) - that's my 'measure'. I don't always eat all of it - but I mostly do.

Another thing I do is stick to suggested portion sizes for things like oats, rice, nuts, fats, dried fruits - so I will actually measure them (I use a cup measurement).

You might find it helpful to think in terms of feeding yourself nutrition, and figure out how much you actually need of everything.
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Post by jackn » Tue May 24, 2016 6:18 am

RAWCOOKIE wrote:I don't always eat all of it - but I mostly do.
What happens then, Raw, to stop you?
That's the question.
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Post by RAWCOOKIE » Tue May 24, 2016 9:06 pm

Ah, I see what you're really asking now......... hard to describe........I lose interest in eating more - like I look at it and think 'I really don't want that last bit'. It is actually impossible to describe/identify. It's not exactly feeling 'full' - it's like my appetite to eat more just suddenly cuts off. Sorry - can't give you a better definition. It's almost like the food loses it's appeal.
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Post by e-lyn » Tue May 24, 2016 11:57 pm

I'm at the very beginning of this journey and I've been thinking about this a lot. I've noticed that without the ability to go back for seconds until I'm completely stuffed I feel a sense of sadness and minor anxiety as my meal comes to an end. I'm not sure if it's because I'm still hungry or if it's just a natural feeling that marks the end of an enjoyable experience. I've found that it helps if my plate includes a little piece of banana or a couple of strawberries especially if my meal has been on the savory side. It's like a definitive or 'sweet' ending to a satisfying food occasion. I think a tiny square of good cheese or a cup of black coffee would work for me too. Just a little palate cleanser that fits on the plate to signify 'the end'.

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Post by Bullisaba » Wed May 25, 2016 12:42 am

jackn wrote:
Bullisaba wrote:I know when I am full
Precisely, how do you know?
How can someone else learn to tell as well as you seem to?
I find it hard to describe in words!

Sometimes when I think I am hungry I ask myself what I would be willing to eat to satisfy my hunger. My answer can help me decide if I am actually hungry. For example if I would not be happy to eat a carrot I must not actually be that hungry.

If I don't ask myself if I am full I don't recognise when I am full.

I know when I am full because I don't feel hungry. I could stop eating, walk away from the table and not think about having more.

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Post by MaggieMae » Wed May 25, 2016 1:06 am

I agree, it's hard to describe how you know exactly when to stop while dining out. I think I hit a point where my stomach starts to get uncomfortable and the taste of the food goes from"wow ,this is delicious" to "this is okay". I think I'm sensitive to that really full feeling, and I don't like it! I actually ate at a buffet tonight. I had a decent serving of my favorite, cheesy potatoes, and I had a half plate of salad, then I had about two bites if a few other things.

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Post by Merry » Wed May 25, 2016 1:21 am

jackn wrote:
Merry wrote:I try to stop when I'm comfortable... I don't think I eat past "comfortable" as often as I used to. In fact, starting NoS is actually what made me start to recognize "comfortable" before it passed me by.
Sounds great, Merry.

If possible, I'd love to understand better what how you recognize 'comfortable' before it's not anymore. Is it a belly feeling, for example? In other words, how would you guide someone to recognize it the way you did once you started being more aware?
Before NoS, I would take seconds because it looked good or tasted good (I'm a prime example of why "intuitive" eating doesn't work because I never thought I was full!). I'd eat those seconds (and maybe thirds, and maybe a little dab as I put food away...). Then I'd go to sit down in our livingroom and suddenly realize--I'm not just full. I'm stuffed. I don't feel so great. Maybe I even need to take something (enzymes to help digest food, or cell salts etc...) Maybe I need to stretch out and lie down because sitting up is actually pretty uncomfortable when I'm this full. I feel like a slug and don't want to do anything.

After NoS, when I would stop after one plate, sometimes I was disappointed. But then I started to realize--I don't feel bloated. I can sit up after dinner and I'm comforatable. My chest isn't tight. I feel like there's room for my diaphragm--I can breathe comfortably. One plate really was enough.

I started to focus on enjoying that one plate because I realized it really was enough, and I didn't go to bed feeling lousy or bloated or like a slug or uncomfortable--I went to bed comfortable or just slightly hungry (depending on how long), and it actually felt good! So I focused on enjoying my food as I ate--know I wouldn't get seconds...and thinking about how I felt at the end of that plate.

When I started recognizing that feeling, then I was able to start recognizing it during meals when, for some reason, I had a bigger or more full plate.

Another way I know--I started eating what I really wanted and liked first. Not what "they say" you should eat--what really looked, tasted, smelled good. And sometimes I'd get so far, and I'd think "ugh" about the rest of the food on my plate. Unappetizing. I really don't want it--because I'm comfortably full now.

Or I'd think--boy, this is really awesomely delicious, but there's so much--I'm glad I get to have this again for lunch tomorrow! I'm lucky that I get to have this twice. Having it twice is better than stuffing myself now and feeling like I can't breathe and can't sit.

Things like that.
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Post by jackn » Wed May 25, 2016 6:03 am

RAWCOOKIE wrote:I lose interest in eating more - like I look at it and think 'I really don't want that last bit'... It's not exactly feeling 'full' - it's like my appetite to eat more just suddenly cuts off. Sorry - can't give you a better definition. It's almost like the food loses it's appeal.
Hey, Raw, to me, it's a precise and helpful description.
That's exactly one of the things I notice - the food becomes gradually less tasty and appealing.
And I think that's where much of the game is - observing, being present to the experience, etc.

When my 22-year-old was little, I asked him how he knew to stop, which kids obviously do naturally.
He said there was a 'click', perhaps in his belly, I wasn't sure I got it fully.

Thanx.
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Post by RAWCOOKIE » Wed May 25, 2016 6:20 am

e-lyn wrote: I've noticed that without the ability to go back for seconds until I'm completely stuffed I feel a sense of sadness and minor anxiety as my meal comes to an end.
Exactly! I know what you mean. Here's a thought - did anyone have a childhood food-training in 'if you eat all your dinner, you can have your pudding'? ie the sweet things only came IF YOU ATE ALL YOUR DINNER/or IF YOU'RE A GOOD GIRL/BOY?

Jackn - I'm glad my post helped a bit. I was thinking about it (!) and realised that you must have had the same indescribable feeling when you stopped before eating those last five chips.
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Post by kaalii » Wed May 25, 2016 6:33 am

RAWCOOKIE wrote: Here's a thought - did anyone have a childhood food-training in 'if you eat all your dinner, you can have your pudding'? ie the sweet things only came IF YOU ATE ALL YOUR DINNER/or IF YOU'RE A GOOD GIRL/BOY?
.
no, i wasnt raised on desserts, smtms on weekends... nor food as a reward/punishment...
sweets were thought of as "things that ruin the 'real' appetite"... there is some wisdom in that...

however, we were strongly encouraged to finish the plate... "c'mon one more for the grandma, one more for the teddy bear... " or later, guilt-tripping us on false premises into eating all: "think of all the starving children in africa, they have nothing and you are wasting food" :roll:

in my family they were not so strict about it - but i know of a family where they would not stop insisting on finishing the plate until the child (my friend) threw up... :(

how is a child to learn when to stop when being practically forcefed?!
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Post by e-lyn » Wed May 25, 2016 6:54 am

We didn't have any food rules that I can remember. Only three hungry kids trying to get their fair share. Also, my mom really liked good food and was into snacking. I was her 'snack buddy'. And then when I was nine I began to put on some weight. We were at an all-you-can-eat buffet and I had loaded up my plate with potato salad, mac salad etc. My dad got very upset and told me I was putting on weight and was I really going to eat all that starch?

BINGO! I had not given my body or my food choices a second thought until that day. I actually thought I was kinda cute until then but my eyes were opened and my disordered body-image and unhealthy dieting patterns began shortly after. I don't blame my dad. This was in the 70's and he was raised in a family where being overweight was a shameful thing. But it triggered a lifetime of difficulty for me. From that moment on food has always had a question mark around it.

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Post by jackn » Wed May 25, 2016 6:56 pm

e-lyn wrote:I feel a sense of sadness and minor anxiety as my meal comes to an end. I'm not sure if it's because I'm still hungry or if it's just a natural feeling that marks the end of an enjoyable experience.
Yes, e-Lyn, I can relate.
I think of it as the sadness of parting.
To me, it was about parting with the pleasure, not at all about hunger.
At meals only eat.
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Post by jackn » Wed May 25, 2016 7:00 pm

MaggieMae wrote:I agree, it's hard to describe how you know exactly when to stop while dining out. I think I hit a point where my stomach starts to get uncomfortable and the taste of the food goes from"wow ,this is delicious" to "this is okay".
I see, MaggieMae - tummy discomfort and food losing its appeal.
I'm curious as to why, to you, the question of the end of the meal only rises when eating out.
Is it that at home it's the plate, and you have what you serve yourself, whereas in a restaurant, portion size is not in our hands?
At meals only eat.
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Post by jackn » Wed May 25, 2016 7:15 pm

Merry wrote: I focused on... thinking about how I felt at the end of that plate.
When I started recognizing that feeling, then I was able to start recognizing it during meals when, for some reason, I had a bigger or more full plate.

eating what I really wanted and liked first.... --what really looked, tasted, smelled good. And sometimes I'd get so far, and I'd think... Unappetizing. I really don't want it--because I'm comfortably full now.
Merry, I like this a lot, and feel appreciative of your openness and the precision of your observations.
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Post by jackn » Wed May 25, 2016 7:30 pm

RAWCOOKIE wrote:
e-lyn wrote: did anyone have a childhood food-training in 'if you eat all your dinner, you can have your pudding'? ie the sweet things only came IF YOU ATE ALL YOUR DINNER/or IF YOU'RE A GOOD GIRL/BOY?
No, Raw, didn't have that particular tactic deployed on me.
Sounds like you're telling us where your predilection for sweets came from... Is that so?

I often realize, though, how formative the childhood experiences have been.

For one thing, we always read the paper at the table.
Hence, my lifetime-habit of reading/surfing/watching TV, you name it, while eating.
This I put an end to when I started practicing no-snacking. I now only eat at meals (and have background music).
Has made a world of difference both in terms of attention to eating and in ability to part with the food. Surfing and eating used to be my demise for so long. Shudder.

Another childhood phenomenon was the story-telling with the food.
I have no specific recollection of such occasions, only this general stereotype of mother distracting the baby/child with titillating story-telling while she stuffs his gaping, unaware, mouth.
Same issue, really - attention. And I think doing other things while eating is reproducing this effect, with often an irresistible synergy between the pleasure of food and the interest of the entertaining distraction.

Finally, snacks came from that time, too.
I could always call my mom and ask for a sandwich, and, predictably, some time later, the spoiled little brat would be served with a loving sandwich, to be had while lying on the sofa, reading.
Yes, chubby child already.
So, love-attention-pleasure came on a sandwich.
Laugh. Cry.
Finally, though, accept, and try to make my own way now, at the age of 58...
At meals only eat.
Only eat at meals.

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Post by jackn » Wed May 25, 2016 7:41 pm

e-lyn, the story about your childhood experience was very moving.
Thanx for sharing.

Yes, of course, no blame.
Our parents are people - limited, erring, feeling their way, and bungling.
I can definitely see this in my own experience as a parent.
A million things, but I'll just mention my ill-adjusted behaviour around food, which can't but have left some kind of mark upon my boy.

One thing growing up means, doesn't it, is a measure of liberation from such hand-me-down imprint.
At meals only eat.
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Post by MaggieMae » Wed May 25, 2016 8:26 pm

jackn wrote:
MaggieMae wrote:I agree, it's hard to describe how you know exactly when to stop while dining out. I think I hit a point where my stomach starts to get uncomfortable and the taste of the food goes from"wow ,this is delicious" to "this is okay".
I see, MaggieMae - tummy discomfort and food losing its appeal.
I'm curious as to why, to you, the question of the end of the meal only rises when eating out.
Is it that at home it's the plate, and you have what you serve yourself, whereas in a restaurant, portion size is not in our hands?
When I'm at home I only put on my plate what I know I will eat. I can eyeball the serving size of foods I make at home. I know that I will only eat about half a chicken breast, and half cup of green beans, but a big helping of potatoes,etc. Restaurants easily serve double size portions than what I put on my plate at home.

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