No Snacking leading to binging?

[kelela92]

I wanted to post this, only because I see binge eating here and there, and talking about fear, and punishment, but although I feel it's not applicable to me, maybe some of you can help me out.

My problem is, and has been because I have seen the pattern, that if I am starving before a meal (to the point where I'll eat anything in front of me and all of it and want more), I will binge eat.

Yesterday, was my first day on No-S. I didn't snack at all. Was good all day. When I was hungry, I drank water to fill me up. Boy was I going all afternoon. lol. By the time 5:30pm came around, I was starving. DH made pizza and salad, I ate half of the pizza and 2 bowls of salad, and was still hungry. I continued to eat a lot more food (mostly junk by that time).

So, I binge, when I'm starving prior to a meal, and hungry afterwards.

Now, I know many of you will say "eat a larger meal". Well, what if 1. that's not doable or 2. I do eat more than what I should, but still am hungry and binge? I can't think eating "more" is necessarily good, even if the meal is healthy. At some point, you're eating too many "servings" healthy food or not.

Advice, suggestions, thoughts?

TIA.

[CatholicCajun]

I wanted to post this, only because I see binge eating here and there, and talking about fear, and punishment, but although I feel it's not applicable to me, maybe some of you can help me out.

My problem is, and has been because I have seen the pattern, that if I am starving before a meal (to the point where I'll eat anything in front of me and all of it and want more), I will binge eat.

Yesterday, was my first day on No-S. I didn't snack at all. Was good all day. When I was hungry, I drank water to fill me up. Boy was I going all afternoon. lol. By the time 5:30pm came around, I was starving. DH made pizza and salad, I ate half of the pizza and 2 bowls of salad, and was still hungry. I continued to eat a lot more food (mostly junk by that time).

So, I binge, when I'm starving prior to a meal, and hungry afterwards.

Now, I know many of you will say "eat a larger meal". Well, what if 1. that's not doable or 2. I do eat more than what I should, but still am hungry and binge? I can't think eating "more" is necessarily good, even if the meal is healthy. At some point, you're eating too many "servings" healthy food or not.

Advice, suggestions, thoughts?

TIA.

Here is someting I do when I am in starvation mode before a meal, try dinking a glass of water before, during and after the meal. The water before gets the edge off, the water during helps with digestion and helps signal the brain that you are getting full and the water after helps you feel fuller. God Bless and Good luck

[OrganicGal]

If your hunger time problem is between lunch & dinner/supper, which it is for a lot of us, then my suggestion is to eat a bigger lunch, and/or drink a glass of (whole) milk between meals (as Reinhard suggests). Or see if you can adjust your lunch or dinner time so they're not too far apart...4-5 hours max.

See if that works.

[wosnes]

I've had this happen and it usually happens in one of these circumstances:

1. I've skipped a meal.
2. I've not eaten enough at the previous meal.
3. I've had to wait longer than expected for the next meal.

Any or all of these happened more frequently than I liked when I was working, but sometimes there just wasn't a choice (I'm a nurse and our meal times were relatively unimportant in the big picture. Patients came first -- no matter what.) My "regular" dinner time when I was working was anywhere between 5:00 PM and 8:30 PM, depending on what was going on.

So, based on my own experience my suggestions would be:

1. Don't skip meals.
2. Eat enough to satisfy your hunger. Don't eat less in anticipation of a higher calorie meal later.
3. Try not to have long delays between meals. If you know there will be a long delay, have some caloric drink before you get to the "tummy-rumbling hungry, eat anything in sight that isn't tied down" stage.

Some days I wake up like this, and I've never been able to figure out why. There's no rhyme nor reason to when it happens.

[Sheiler]

Kelela,

Forgive yourself and start over. You're right that you might be eating too much at a meal at first, and that might be what you need to get started. It won't be long before you feel less of a need to pile your plate high. Just realize that it is not a "cheat" to do that if you need to, especially at first.

It might help to break the plan down to what you feel is doable for you. Start by getting to three meals a day. Then get those meals to fit on one plate, Just take it one step at a time.

You might also try eating slowly to give your body time to realize that you're full, or have a glass of whole milk half an hour before your evening meal. The milkfat is actually beneficial to weight loss, and it gives your body a head start at feeling satisfied. If you really start to feel hungry earlier than that, have your milk sooner.

It takes time to build a habit, and our minds rebel at the idea of any restrictions, even sensible ones. It's not at all unusual for people to gain weight right after they start a diet because of that inner child rebelling, but if you just let yourself know that nothing is off limits, just sometimes defered (as in sweets), you won't starve, and you will build new habits if you only hang in there. It does get soooo much easier (and fairly quickly). This "diet" becomes second nature. Like so many things, starting is the hard part. Keep posting and you will find all the support you need here.

Hugs,
Sheiler

[Rilee]

Hi Kelela 92,

I know exactly what you're saying about being too hungry before a meal. I have the same problem now and then. I remedy that as best I can with a drink of hot cocoa which really helps. But there are those days when a hot beverage isn't going to cut it, so I will eat something small and call it another meal. Remember the goal is to not eat between meals it doesn't mean you can't eat more than 3 meals, at least in the beginning. It's about establishing habit . There are days I've eaten 5 meals a day, but I establish that as soon as I think it's gunna be one of those days,so as not to start snacking. It's psychological. And I still struggle with the 3 but it has gotten easier and I've been doing this for months. It's not easy breaking the snacking habit. I'v been a grazer for years. You have to retrain yourself and it takes time. Don't beat yourself up about this. You have an appetite that needs taming that's all, and you'll get there once you start to apply the
NoS principles. Just keep trying and come to the boards for encouragement. I hope this made some sense for you.

[Sheiler]

There is another thread, Trouble Getting Started, that has lots of great advice that might be helpful to you too. It's sometimes good to see that you're not alone, whatever the exact issue might be.

[Dawn]

You’re getting ahead of yourself. I know you are excited that this could the "one" and at the same time you are scared that you can't do it.

If you are starving out of your mind 3 hours prior to your next meal then you are clearly not eating enough at mealtime - sorry I know you were hoping for something else. But there isn't anything else.

Until you get the No-S's nailed down you shouldn't even worry about how much or what you put on your plate. You should only focus on sticking with those 3 meals. It may take a few months - it took me 10 weeks, but then you will be able to get to the next step, which is the portion size of what's on your plate, then after that you can adjust the content of the plate - choose lower cal foods etc. I didn't lose anything until I got into these steps but I couldn't have gotten there if I didn't get past the general rule of the No-S.

I am down 5 pounds in 3 months -doesn't sound like much, but you have to remember that is without dieting. I only have around 12 pounds to go and it will take as much time as it does. I started at 167 and I’d like to see 150, but I am just going to keep doing what I am doing and when it’s time, my weight will just level out, so it may go lower than 150 or I may never see under 153ish. 153 and never having to diet again is a compromise that I can live with. You have to understand this is like no plan you have ever been on. This plan isn't for those who want to lose a lot of weight quick, it is for those who really want to take it off and never deal with it again.

[NoelFigart]

Dawn's quite right. You gotta go with the habit first. Don't try to "diet" as in "choose small amounts of low calorie foods" first. You want to be rigid about No S first.

Example. I walked over to the grocery store with my daughter (we were out of oatmeal), and she went over to the samples by the bakery to get a cookie. I don't sweat it if the kids do this. She offered one to me and I said no without thinking. It wasn't an S day, and it wasn't mealtime.

She laughed and said, "Oh yeah, I forgot. Stupid N days!"

I said, "Not at all. Great N days. You've no idea how amazing an ice cream cone is when it's savored."

Until you're there, don't tweak. Really.

[kelela92]

Here is someting I do when I am in starvation mode before a meal, try dinking a glass of water before, during and after the meal. The water before gets the edge off, the water during helps with digestion and helps signal the brain that you are getting full and the water after helps you feel fuller. God Bless and Good luck

Thanks for the suggestion. I do drink when I'm hungry, so in essence, the water isn't helping during the day. And yesterday, I was downing water like, well, water. It didn't take the edge off.

However, maybe that day was different. I will keep this in mind, so I can see if I should drink some water, or if I already have, then I need something else.

[kelela92]

If your hunger time problem is between lunch & dinner/supper, which it is for a lot of us, then my suggestion is to eat a bigger lunch, and/or drink a glass of (whole) milk between meals (as Reinhard suggests). Or see if you can adjust your lunch or dinner time so they're not too far apart...4-5 hours max.

See if that works.

Whole milk? Definitely can't do. Lactose intolerant here. lol. How does milk help? Wouldn't that be considered a snack since it's 1. whole milk and 2. not water? Interesting.

Unfortunately, I cant' adjust my eating times. I am at work and lunch is at 12, and quittin time is 5:30pm (I get home around 6ish. Dinner isnt' ready until 6:30-7ish).

As for the bigger lunch, that's what I was thinking too. The one thing I don't want to do though, is push myself to eat more, because then I will typically eat more, and more food equals more calories (good or bad). And more food eaten, for me at least, means I get hungrier faster once my stomach is used to it. Catch 22 at that point, right?

Hmmm........another thing to keep in mind.
Thanks.

At least I know the mid-Afternoon issue isn't just mine.

[kelela92]

I've had this happen and it usually happens in one of these circumstances:

1. I've skipped a meal.
2. I've not eaten enough at the previous meal.
3. I've had to wait longer than expected for the next meal.

Any or all of these happened more frequently than I liked when I was working, but sometimes there just wasn't a choice (I'm a nurse and our meal times were relatively unimportant in the big picture. Patients came first -- no matter what.) My "regular" dinner time when I was working was anywhere between 5:00 PM and 8:30 PM, depending on what was going on.

So, based on my own experience my suggestions would be:

1. Don't skip meals.
2. Eat enough to satisfy your hunger. Don't eat less in anticipation of a higher calorie meal later.
3. Try not to have long delays between meals. If you know there will be a long delay, have some caloric drink before you get to the "tummy-rumbling hungry, eat anything in sight that isn't tied down" stage.

Some days I wake up like this, and I've never been able to figure out why. There's no rhyme nor reason to when it happens.

Interesting.

1. I don't typically, so yay.
2. I don't adjust meals for later meals, which can be a good and bad thing, lol. And I do satisfy my hunger (but maybe dinner is last, so it's the worst?)
3. What do you mean by "caloric drink"? To me, that seems backwards. I cant' EAT anything (aka snack), because it's extra "calories", but I should drink something with calories? I don't understand this concept. Have I missed it somewhere in the "teachings" on the web? Or is this in the book? (havent' gotten that yet).

Thanks.

BTW, usually when I'm absolutely starving the next morning.....it's because I had a bigger than normal meal the night before and my stomach is just empty. Not sure if you're experiencing the same things.

[kelela92]

Kelela,

Forgive yourself and start over. You're right that you might be eating too much at a meal at first, and that might be what you need to get started. It won't be long before you feel less of a need to pile your plate high. Just realize that it is not a "cheat" to do that if you need to, especially at first.

It might help to break the plan down to what you feel is doable for you. Start by getting to three meals a day. Then get those meals to fit on one plate, Just take it one step at a time.

You might also try eating slowly to give your body time to realize that you're full, or have a glass of whole milk half an hour before your evening meal. The milkfat is actually beneficial to weight loss, and it gives your body a head start at feeling satisfied. If you really start to feel hungry earlier than that, have your milk sooner.

It takes time to build a habit, and our minds rebel at the idea of any restrictions, even sensible ones. It's not at all unusual for people to gain weight right after they start a diet because of that inner child rebelling, but if you just let yourself know that nothing is off limits, just sometimes defered (as in sweets), you won't starve, and you will build new habits if you only hang in there. It does get soooo much easier (and fairly quickly). This "diet" becomes second nature. Like so many things, starting is the hard part. Keep posting and you will find all the support you need here.

Hugs,
Sheiler

Hi Sheiler,

I think you misunderstood about the overeating part. I only overdo it when I'm starving. The whole "eyes bigger than stomach" thing. It's not a normal thing. I think I may be misunderstanding. I'm also not taking more than one plateful of food, nor am I "piling it high". I rarely eat seconds as it is. I'm confused.

As for the milk, maybe everyone here can help me. I'm basically lactose intolerant. However, if I drink the milk with food, i'm good. So, do I eat cereal and hope for the best, or just skip on the whole milk idea?

I think I will start off slowly and not get angry with myself because I can't go cold-turkey with no snacks. I'll wean myself off slowly and see how I do. I need to go one step at a time.

[kelela92]

Hi Kelela 92,

I know exactly what you're saying about being too hungry before a meal. I have the same problem now and then. I remedy that as best I can with a drink of hot cocoa which really helps. But there are those days when a hot beverage isn't going to cut it, so I will eat something small and call it another meal. Remember the goal is to not eat between meals it doesn't mean you can't eat more than 3 meals, at least in the beginning. It's about establishing habit . There are days I've eaten 5 meals a day, but I establish that as soon as I think it's gunna be one of those days,so as not to start snacking. It's psychological. And I still struggle with the 3 but it has gotten easier and I've been doing this for months. It's not easy breaking the snacking habit. I'v been a grazer for years. You have to retrain yourself and it takes time. Don't beat yourself up about this. You have an appetite that needs taming that's all, and you'll get there once you start to apply the
NoS principles. Just keep trying and come to the boards for encouragement. I hope this made some sense for you.

Maybe I need to do more reading. I don't recall seeing anywhere that we can have more than one meal. Now, while I'm not following this to a T, I am trying to follow it. Because you've always been a grazer, I can see why it'd be a "meal" for you. However, I know for myself, if I hate 5 meals, I'd be a lot fatter. LOL.

Maybe I'm just too against the "no snack" policy when I think snacking CAN be beneficial for SOME people. I don't agree that snacking is bad for everyone.

but I do agree big time on breaking habits is hard. I am trying. Just realizing I may not agree with the complete system 100%.

[kelela92]

There is another thread, Trouble Getting Started, that has lots of great advice that might be helpful to you too. It's sometimes good to see that you're not alone, whatever the exact issue might be.

Thanks. I'll check it out.

[kelela92]

Dawn's quite right. You gotta go with the habit first. Don't try to "diet" as in "choose small amounts of low calorie foods" first. You want to be rigid about No S first.

Example. I walked over to the grocery store with my daughter (we were out of oatmeal), and she went over to the samples by the bakery to get a cookie. I don't sweat it if the kids do this. She offered one to me and I said no without thinking. It wasn't an S day, and it wasn't mealtime.

She laughed and said, "Oh yeah, I forgot. Stupid N days!"

I said, "Not at all. Great N days. You've no idea how amazing an ice cream cone is when it's savored."

Until you're there, don't tweak. Really.

I definitely am not a "dieter" by your definition, lol. And that's why I figured No S would be better for me, and more doable. I have no problem with seconds, and knowing I have S days, that makes no sweets easier. I'm having issues with the snacks, because of what it leads to.

Maybe I'll work diligently on the first two, and make those a habit. And then fight the last one? Sigh. I think I feel this way with ANY plan. One part, I just don't agree with, and neither does my body.

[wosnes]

3. What do you mean by "caloric drink"? To me, that seems backwards. I cant' EAT anything (aka snack), because it's extra "calories", but I should drink something with calories? I don't understand this concept. Have I missed it somewhere in the "teachings" on the web? Or is this in the book? (havent' gotten that yet).

Milk or juice. It's in the book, in various posts and maybe on the No-S home page.

[flipturn]

Hi, Kelela, and welcome to No S -- You have received a lot of good advice here. I would encourage you to look at the glass as half full. You have found your way to No S, and you think that this is a way of life that could work for you. You will quickly see how wonderful it is not to punish yourself with the diet mentality. As others have said, it is great to eat enough at one meal to get you to the next. Some meals are more successful than others, and you will soon see what works for you. Check out the lunch and dinner threads and see what other people have to say about what they eat. I'd say that about once a week I get ravenously hungry, but I am learning how to tweak the menus to prevent this. Good luck!

[Laff]

I have to tell you that the first few days I could have eaten my right leg but that passed. One day I had a small glass of unsweetened fruit juice but other than that I just had water. I did end up losing 6 pounds the first 3 weeks even though I ate what I thought were large servings. My servings now are usually a bit smaller but still on the large side. Today I didn't like my lunch so only ate half and I am very hungry now. Dinner is in the oven but usually we don't eat until close to 7. I am enjoying a nice cold glass of water. And. . . . I am going to really enjoy dinner!

Good luck to you. You can do this.

[kelela92]

3. What do you mean by "caloric drink"? To me, that seems backwards. I cant' EAT anything (aka snack), because it's extra "calories", but I should drink something with calories? I don't understand this concept. Have I missed it somewhere in the "teachings" on the web? Or is this in the book? (havent' gotten that yet).

Milk or juice. It's in the book, in various posts and maybe on the No-S home page.

Oh. I don't recall seeing it on the main info page, but then again, there was a lot of info there. Ditto with the boards. lol. Thanks. Trying to suck up what I can, but it's not easy to do it in one shot. lol

[kelela92]

Hi back and thanks.

A couple of you have talked about the "diet mentality". Wouldn't that go for NoS too? As in following the rules to a T, or doing it, because they said so?

Maybe I'm completely misunderstanding what you mean by "diet mentality". I don't personally think I have one, but maybe I'm wrong.
Can you explain more about what you mean by it?

[BrightAngel]

figured No S would be better for me, and more doable. I have no problem with seconds,
and knowing I have S days, that makes no sweets easier.
I'm having issues with the snacks, because of what it leads to.

Maybe I'll work diligently on the first two, and make those a habit.
And then fight the last one? Sigh.
I think I feel this way with ANY plan.
One part, I just don't agree with, and neither does my body.

I first tried No S in mid April.
The snacking issue was a tough one for me,
because for the past year or so, I worked trying have a 3 meal, 3 snack plan.
And before No S I thought the 3 meal, 3 snack concept was ideal for me....,
......as long as I kept those snacks really small and low-calorie.
Thie snacks-is-desirable diet concept calls for a person eat quite often,
which is very appealing to me.

My problem was I had great difficulty following through with the concept.
What happened was I would eat my 3 small meals and 3 healthy small snacks,
but then I spent all the rest of my in-between time fighting against having extra snacks...
and I frequently lost the extra snack battle to sweets and junk foods.

At first I didn't agree with the No S concept of no snacks.
Then the more I thought about the Habit concept, together with the no snacks concept,
the more desirable it seemed to me.
Because, I don't have an eating problem with seconds,
and, I felt eliminating snacks would resolve my problem with sweets.

So I decided to give No S a better try, and
specifically work on 3 meals a day...1 plate..with no snacking as my primary emphasis.
Today is my 12th day in a row of doing that....
because I decided to try to keep the "no snack rule" on S days too,
until I have done it long enough to develop a no snacking Habit.
and would you believe, I've had no snacks?

Somehow it has been easier for me to eat No snacks in between meals,
than it is to eat just one snack in between meals.
I don't know how long I can do this,
but it hasn't been really hard,
and if I can keep at it.....I think I will have found my answer to successful maintenance.

I am a calorie counter, and I choose to continue to count calories on No S.
I use Diet Power, a food journaling software program to do that.
One of my problems has been that in order to have 3 meals and 3 snacks,
and stay inside my calorie limits,
I have had to keep my meals and my snacks small,
which resulted in me never being full at the end of the meal or snack,
and caused me to feel hungry almost all the time.
The only time I didn't feel hungry was for about 1/2 hour after my meal or snack..
....AND after I had extra snacks.

So when 3 meals, no snacks, I only have to divide my day's calories into thirds,
and so far, I've enjoyed feeling full after every meal.
That is while being successful on No S, I get to feel full Three Times a Day;
whereas, being successful on my 3 meal 3 snack plan, I NEVER get to feel full.

Even after only 12 days, I'm beginning to think this is a no-brainer.
........which amazes me............
It surprised me to see that when I followed the no-snack rule,
the rest of the No S requirements have just sort of easily fallen into line.

[kccc]

If you're TOO hungry in the evenings, the odds are you didn't eat enough at lunch. Honest.

I did find that I needed more protein to make it from one meal to the next without snacking.

However, could it also be evening habit? I ask only because that was my pattern at first. It really wasn't hunger as much as habit, and then I'd overeat a little, and then I'd think "oh, I've blown it anyway" and binge.

I suggest reading the book carefully (if you haven't already) and thinking about what's going on with YOU. If you're really hungry, you need more food at the prior meal. (And I know, it may seem like too much, but it's probably less than a binge would be, right?) If you're eating out of habit, there are other strategies.

Also, you might phase in your habits. I really, really found snacking hard to let go of. So, I cut them the way I'd wean a baby - first the easiest one, and get that down, then the next "feeding." My afternoon snack was last, and I went through a "limited options" phase first. (Only fruit/veg, then only if I REALLY needed it... if I'm genuinely hungry, that's good. If I'm eating for some other reason, the internal bargaining will start!) Eventually, I cut that snack too, and don't even think about it now.

Be gentle with yourself as you start. Set yourself up for success as much as you can. Remember the initial focus is on habit-building.

Good luck!

[Jesseco]

and so far, I've enjoyed feeling full after every meal.
That is while being successful on No S, I get to feel full Three Times a Day;
whereas, being successful on my 3 meal 3 snack plan, I NEVER get to feel full.

[/color]

I can't tell you how much I also enjoy eating ENOUGH at each meal to feel satisfied!