N Days when you are not hungry

[blueskighs]

So how do people handle N days when they are not hungry?

I did pretty good yesterday ... in that I properly stuffed myself according to holiday tradition ... you can see it all at my MY FIRST NO S DIET THANKSGIVING post at www.nosdiet.blogspot.com

But, unsurprisingly I am not too hungry right now, it's 10:00 and I am trying to figure out what to do for my three today, in the past I have used 8 ounces of monvie for a "meal" ... just to maintain the structure ... has anyone ever slipped into just two meals on an N day?

the tricky thing for me is continual overeating leads to more overeating cause I lose touch with my natural appetite and its kind of a snowball effect ... hmmmmm... think I'll get some tea as I ponder I am so NOT HUNGRY I don't even want coffee! uhhhhhh ... that's cause I don't ever drink it black!

Blueskighs

[kccc]

I felt the same this morning.

I had something very light, but sat down with it and told myself "THIS is breakfast. It is a MEAL."

By lunchtime I was ready to eat again.

[wosnes]

has anyone ever slipped into just two meals on an N day?

I often eat only two meals daily on N days -- lunch and dinner. In fact, I'm more likely to eat two meals than three. Sometimes when I eat only two meals I eat lunch a little earlier than if I'd had breakfast, sometimes I eat at about the same time.

Two meals a day is no less "normal" than three -- or more. I'm not sure why it is that when we think of eating a different number of meals than three, we think more meals instead of less.

[winnie96]

I also was not feeling terribly hungry this morning after yesterday's glorious S-Day ... lots of snacks, seconds, and sweets with dinner (but not a complete blowout).

To accompany the not-too-hungries, I am struggling with a determination NOT to turn today into what I call a G-Day, (i.e. Guilt Day), a leftover behavior from my Diet Days when I would try to "make up" for the previous day's indulgences by skipping meals, or just having lettuce, etc. the next day. That, of course, leads to feelings of deprivation and hunger the next day, then overeating, then trying to compensate ... you know the cycle.

I decided that the single most important thing I can do today is have the three meals ... and that breakfast should be my usual portion of oatmeal/fruit/nuts. So I've done breakfast, am not ravenous for lunch (which will be homemade chicken vegetable soup, toast, apple), then a light dinner tonight visiting friends. (We made pre-arrangements for lighter dinner fare and no hors d'oeuvres).

Am hoping when the day ends that I'll (a) appreciate yesterday's turkey extravaganza, (b) feel very satisfied with the food I've eaten today, but (c) most of all that I won't have tried to compensate today for yesterday.

This is really the first big test I've had of ridding myself of G-Days, and I think the 3-meal structure is going to help me through it. G-Days were such a downfall in the past, it'll be good to think that I've got one success to model for the rest of the pitfall-prone holiday season.

So anyway, Blueskighs, no, I'm not going to slip into two-meal mode -- will be lightening up lunch and dinner somewhat, but they will still be "real" meals. And KCCC, I loved your "THIS is breakfast. It is a MEAL." admonition to yourself. I'm going to remember that one!

[blueskighs]

Thanks guys for the feedback.

I ended up having my 8 ounce glass with a tall cafe misto for "breakfast" at 11:00 and then about 1:30 I had some turkey meatloaf and greens. We didn't get to our greens yesterday, so it was like GOT TO HAVE MY GREENS today then another cafe misto. I am starting to feel "back on track". Tonight I will probably have either: an apple, a sandwich, what I usually have for breakfast or toast and eggs, depending on where my hunger is at. I think that will have made this a great N day for me.

Since I have been a BIG EATER for years I find it really challenging to reduce my portions. On this particular day, feeding about 30% of my turkey meatloaf (all healthy kitty friendly ingredients) to my cats helped keep my lunch portions manageable.

Winnie, I think you make an excellent point about as you call them G-days. I like to think that my "just lettuce" days are well behind me. On the other hand I learned years ago that for me overeating ironically leads to guess what? overeating.

Once I overeat to a certain point, it is like a certain "switch" is flipped and it is VERY HARD for me to stop overeating. It is like I have made myself physically uncomfortable with food and then my reaction is to eat MORE FOOD to "numb" the initial discomfort ... obviously this is NOT a logical phenomenon

ANYWAY, although I overate yesteday I wasn't stuffed when I woke up this morning. I just wasn't hungry. This is the point I am most "at risk" for serious overeating and/or binging. I think because this is the easiest time to overeat beyond what my body can comfortably metabolize. This is also the best time to SLOW WAY DOWN and eat less.

If I had not decided today was an N DAY, I would have gotten up this morning, padded downstairs and indulged in another cool whip slathered piece of pumpkin pie. Not such a bad thing in itself, but that would have been the "rocket" to launch me into serious indulgence that I suspect later I would have regretted.

WHen I was having my second cup of coffee with my husband I said, "I could go home and have a piece of pie and have my first red day."

He said, "You could."

I said, "But I don't really want a red day."

He said, "You don't have to have a red day." (yes he was being very zen and all.)

I said, "What time is it?"

He said "2:33."

I said, "I can have a piece of pumpkin pie in less than 10 hours and not have a red day too."

He said, "That's true."

I said, "How are we going to split the second pie?"

He said, "I am going to eat as much as I can tonight." (you have to appreciate his sense of humor)

I didn't smile. I felt very panicked and sad.

He said, "We have more pumpkin in the freezer and a whole other pumpkin we haven't cooked yet."

I smiled. "It's true. We could make another pie. Do you want to?"

He said, "The weekend after next. I am only going to eat 1/2 the pie."

I smiled and we walked home. I can wait until tomorrow to enjoy more or the rest of my pie.

These are small moments, small decisions, but inevitably they add up to eating much less overall.

As for two meals a day, this is an idea that I find myself toying with over the past month ...

Wosnes ... do you consider eating 2 or 3 meals a day as "green"? I would have to approach it that way. Cause my appetite really does vary from day to day,

Blueskighs

[NoelFigart]

If I was only hungry for two meals I wouldn't count it as a red. The idea is not to overeat.

When I'm not overeating, there's not a chance in hell I won't be hungry for breakfast. If I've overeaten the day before, I might want a brunch and dinner, but I have to have stuffed myself silly.

But if I'd done that on an S day and wasn't hungry (as opposed to trying to self punish), I'd eat two and be done with it.

[gingercake]

For me, it's really important to have a somewhat normal breakfast within an hour of getting up, especially on "day after" days. I know that's not true for everyone, but I think those of us who have struggled with eating disorders have a slightly different paradigm. Breakfast steadies my blood sugar, and mentally it makes me feel like, okay, today is a normal day.

It's important for me kind of the way showering and dressing becomes extra important for a depressed person. I need that precious routine, setting the stage for the day. I'll often find that my lunches and dinners on day-after days are smaller, but never breakfast. If I don't have breakfast at breakfast time, my whole routine gets thrown off and it feels like one big slippery slope and a basic feeling of unease.

Yeah, I have issues.

[kccc]

Ginger, I think I'm with you on breakfast. For me, it's blood sugar issues - I come from a family with a LOT of diabetes! If I eat sugar for breakfast, I'm eating it all day. If I skip breakfast, I'm off-base all day.

A light breakfast is okay. But it has to be something I acknowledge as breakfast. And it needs to include a little protein.

However, I do recognize that different people work differently, so this is a very individual situation.

Blue, sounds as if you are doing GREAT.

[blueskighs]

Hey guys,

just want to give you an update on the outcome of my yesteday. Ahhh .... satisfaction, it was safely green. After my monavie/coffee "breakfast" and my greens and turkey meatloaf lunch, I had scrambled eggs and whole grain toast for "dinner" at about 9:00pm. Honestly it took me that long to get hungry again.

But all was well as I woke up nice and hungry this am.

I think the recent problem I am having on my portions and squeezing in three meals every N day is that I have made the decision to cut WAY BACK on my cardio exercise. I am doing a good full body but fairly short (30-35 minutes) weight session threee times a week and I top that off with a 20 minute high intensity cardio session and that's it.

doing a total of 60 minutes of cardio a week, my appetite, well, it kind of plummets and on the days I don't work out and the two days in a row I don't work out my appetite is "very small"

Compound all that with: this is all just very new for me. (i.e. having a small appetite) I have found myself naturally pushing my breakfasts and lunches later and when dinner time comes I am just often not hungry.

SO ... after giving it some serious consideration and discussing it with my husband, I am going to experiment for the month of December with giving myself the "option" of two or three meals on N days. Of course the risk here is that of, as my husband pointed out, feeling "cheated" of a meal which would then set me up for overeating.

I definitely think there is such a risk, that is why I am going to initially limit this "experiment" to the month of December and then evaluate to see how I am doing.

I am certain this would NOT have worked when I first started NO S. I am certain my old bad habits would have been too slippery and it would have led to things like Winnie posted about "guilt days".

But the truth is, after 8 months I am much more in tune with my hunger and I am really struggling with getting three meals a day. So ... I think, just to keep myself honest, I'll post my meals and the number I had each N day and just see how it goes. If I start "getting into trouble" or "veering off" I think it will be pretty obvious.

But I have really reached the point in my life I do NOT want to exercise more so that I can eat more. IN fact, I would much rather exercise less and eat less.

Gingercake and KCCC, I certainly understand about the blood sugar thing. When I started No S my blood sugar numbers were often in the upper 80s and low 90s before breakfast, but now they have dropped almost 10 points, I am getting regular readings of low 80s and upper 70s. It has actually been years since I was getting in the 70s. So I am finding I don't have the same blood sugar swing issues I had when I first started NO S.

ANyway, wish me luck, thank you guys for your input and I will keep you posted on my Daily Check-In with my "December Experiment" .... maybe I shall call this "Peppermint Striped NO S" in honor of the holiday season

Blueskighs

[winnie96]

But I have really reached the point in my life I do NOT want to exercise more so that I can eat more.

I'm with you on the exercise thing: between shovelglove, walking, and my 3-times-a-week weights routine, I spend about an hour each day exercising, and that's just enough for me. I enjoy it, I feel that I benefit from it, and it doesn't own my life.

I have friends who spend way more time than that -- working out at the gym, walking for hours on end, etc. and more power to them, I guess, but that's not a place I want to go.

Was reading a book recently that had an apropos quote. The character is bemoaning the fact that a friend of hers was able to eat anything she wanted without gaining weight, whereas she frequently finds herself making "complicated calculations of food vs. exercise vs. happiness".

I just about keeled over when I read that -- it's what I've been doing most of my life, e.g. "if I eat this cake, I'll walk an extra two miles tomorrow and eat only lettuce, although I won't be happy that gave in to the cake in the first place", or conversely, "I only had lettuce today so I'll only walk for 15 minutes, but will I be happy that I spent so little time at it?" -- complicated calculations, indeed!

Among the many things I'm getting from No-S is a way out of that mode of thinking. No more trade-offs! Just N-Days and S-Days, for both food and exercise, seems to be working for me -- and what a great feeling to be rid of that continual internal debate.

The relevance of the above to your proposed 2-meal option is (and I'm sure you're wondering by now where I'm going with this!): however successful it may be in addressing your small appetite, I hope it won't lead you into a debate situation where you are spending time and energy wondering about whether you should have that 3rd meal. I so enjoy not having those debates by just following the rules, that I might be more inclined to experiment with meal volume (loved your scrambled eggs and toast solution).

Best wishes with your experiment (and thanks for surfacing this exercise issue and letting me rant on to help me clarify my own thinking!)

[funfuture]

Hi Blue,
I know I have posted before about that year I lived in Japan when I naturally and without effort lost weight. What I noticed then was that my appetite just dropped off. I didn't always eat 3 meals and I never snacked, but I did have treats when I met up with friends, etc. I just never thought that much about food and I didn't worry about it. I really did end up eating to live rather than living to eat. That's the feeling I want to get back to now.
fun
x

[blueskighs]

What I noticed then was that my appetite just dropped off. I didn't always eat 3 meals and I never snacked, but I did have treats when I met up with friends, etc. I just never thought that much about food and I didn't worry about it. I really did end up eating to live rather than living to eat.

Funfuture,

thank you for your post. There has seemed to be a somewhat "seismic shift" in my consciousness about food and eating since I have been doing NO S and it seems that it is something like ... "eating to live rather than living to eat." I think that is what I meant when I wrote that I don't want to exercise more just so I can eat more. I am ready to spend my life and my time doing some other things!

Blueskighs

[reinhard]

Dear Blue (et al).,

I personally eat three meals even if I'm not particularly hungry. They don't have to be big meals, after all, and I do think the regularity is important. It's that whole "train your appetite, don't let it lead you" thing. It's also one less decision to make. And I don't want to feel a shred of guilt about eating a third meal, ever.

I have (very) occasionally forgotten to eat lunch. So I do hear you on the appetite reduction (such forgetfulness would have been unthinkable pre-nos). But it's never a deliberate policy. And, honestly (thankfully!), most of the time I'm still pretty hungry for every meal when the time rolls around.

Do what seems best to you of course, but please be very careful. 3 meal no-s has worked so wonderfully well for you so far... dietary hubris is a real danger that shouldn't be underestimated. If there isn't a very compelling need I'd keep it at a comfortable distance.

Reinhard

[blueskighs]

Reinhard,

thanks for popping in!

Hopefully this "version" is not hubris but sheer necessity I have been struggling to get my three meals in for about 2 to 3 months and been toying with this idea in the back of my mind, but since I cut down on my cardio it is only made more apparent. I understand light meals, but I would personally rather have two well-rounded meals than, say eat an apple or small bowl of soup ... or whatever ... also for me, more time effective and would allow me to spend less time in the day puttering around in the kitchen when my husband is at work and its just me working at home.

I am going to experiement with 2 meals an N day for December, the optional third meal won't be a "daily decision" it will be, I miscalculated and I am starving - physically,

I have done well on 3 meals, so I think it will be very clear if I am "getting into trouble!"

Blueskighs