New and confused...

stacers · Post by **stacers** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:42 pm

Hi,
I just started doing this a month ago, and today I decided to weigh myself...I haven't lost anything at all. I'm a little nervous and frustrated as I have not cheated at all, and have not overeaten during the week or overdone on the weekend. I also exercise pretty heavily at least twice a week. Any ideas why this might be happening? Thanks so much!!!

Blithe Morning · Post by **Blithe Morning** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:09 pm

A couple of thoughts:

How much do you need to lose? Could it be that you really are at a healthy weight?

Twice a week exercise even if it's heavy seems like not enough if you want to lose weight. You probably need exercise more frequently albeit at a lower intensity or for shorter amounts of time. Are you including some sort of weight training? Weight training builds muscle and that is what will boost your resting metabolism.

Winter is really hard for me to lose weight. I attribute that to I'm just less active; I don't ride my bike to work, I don't wander outside to stretch my legs; I don't hang up clothes on the line. It all adds up.

It sounds like you are doing well with the habits. That's step 1. Remember, this is a habit plan, not a diet plan. Hang in there!

kccc · Post by **kccc** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:51 pm

Also, if you cruise older posts, you'll find a lot of people start off maintaining (or even gaining!) as they experience a bit of "diet rebound" - loading up their one plate with previously-forbidden foods, etc.

That generally wears off in a few weeks, and then people start losing.

And at first, it is truly best to focus on habit development. You can worry about how high your plate is piled and what's on it later.

For now, take a look at how strict you've been on your N-days... any little cheats to work on? That's the core of success, from my experience and observation.

Best wishes!

stacers · Post by **stacers** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:56 pm

Thank you Blith Morning...
Actually for my height and frame I am "overweight". I am only 5'1" and right now weigh 137. That's frustrating since early this summer I weighed only 125. Of course before I started this I was eating pretty indiscriminately....my bad! But at least this has given me a sense of relief and freedom that I am changing some bad habits...sweets definitely and snacking. Since I've tried pretty much every diet known to man, I have become pretty disciplined about portion sizing so that has not been a problem.

Also, as to my exercise...yup, I know I should be doing it more than twice a week....but I do kettle bell training, which is a pretty intense combo of strength training and cardio in one workout. It ends up being about a half hour by the time I'm done and I'm completely whipped. I started out at a 9 pound kettle bell, and am now up to 17. Believe me, it's a killer! But I love it, and I know if you enjoy a workout, you're more likely to keep it up. I just have to be more motivated to do it a couple more times a week! I guess I'm just frustrated because of course, my husband, who cheats and doesn't exercise at all, has lost two pounds where I'm stuck at nothing!!! AARRGGHH! Oh well....I guess I'm nervous as to whether I should keep going and trust that this will work? I'm afraid to gain anymore, I just don't want that to happen!

wosnes · Post by **wosnes** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 2:24 pm

In addition to generally not being as active in the winter, we tend to eat more calorie dense foods.

I agree that twice a week exercise, even if "heavy", is not enough. Better to do something light or moderate 5-6-7 days a week that heavy exercise twice a week. It doesn't have to be strenuous, just move.

Blithe Morning · Post by **Blithe Morning** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 2:47 pm

I had to look up kettlebell. It looks like fun and rather akin to shovel glove. Maybe you could adapt the shovelglove regimen to kettlebelling. Go with a slightly lighter weight with more frequency? I know the feeling of going backwards by going down in weight, but sometimes, it's good to shake things up.

You'll find something that works for you. Don't worry!

BrightAngel · Post by **BrightAngel** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 3:00 pm

For what it's worth,
my exercise advice is:
Keep your kettleball the same, but add
some low-impact cardio, like walking, the other 3 weekdays.

Remember, that obvious fact
which so very many people find hard to Accept and live with.
Even when exercising, and Even in No S,
shorter, lighter people have to eat much less than taller, heavier people
to achieve similiar results.

stacers · Post by **stacers** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 3:12 pm

I appreciate all your responses! And I just wondered, Bright Angel, did you lose your weight by doing this?? If so, that really makes me feel motivated! Especially you have about the same frame size as me! Is there light at the end of the tunnel? I hope so. Again about the kettlebell...because it's actually what you would call "circuit training" you are getting a pretty good cardio workout at the same time, because you are giving yourself very short rests in between each circuit, and starting all over again. I'm pretty happy today, because I managed to eke out another half a circuit extra...so that put me at about a 35 minute workout, at the 17 pounds. I just have to talk myself into it, and once I do it I really enjoy a workout that truly kicks my "butt"! As to cheating on "N" days...if you could ask my husband, he would adamantly defend my honor. Especially since I have chewed his butt every time I have caught him snacking!! No, when I dedicate myself to doing something, I do it all the way, not halfheartedly. And since I am a smaller person already, I make sure that I do not eat past a feeling of satisfaction, which means I can't eat as much as a bigger person would. Many people ask me are you sure that's all you're going to eat, and it gets frustrating to me, because I can't! Even on S days, I have not had the desire to stuff myself mindlessly. Sure, I have enjoyed the freedom it provides, but I still do not want to totally ruin the good habits I am learning. So...I realize I just have to keep up my exercise routine, stick this out, weigh myself again at the end of this month, and see how it went!!! Does that make sense? Anyway...thanks again everyone for your help.

wosnes · Post by **wosnes** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 3:32 pm

BrightAngel wrote:Remember, that obvious fact
which so very many people find hard to Accept and live with.
Even when exercising, and Even in No S,
shorter, lighter people have to eat much less than taller, heavier people
to achieve similiar results.

I've "heard" you say that before and I'm sure there's truth in it, but personally, I never found it to be true. I could always outeat just about everyone I knew -- including my much taller husband -- and was always slim.

I only started to gain weight as my activity level decreased due to lifestyle and job changes. I've never been an exerciser, never been in a gym, couldn't follow an exercise program more than a couple of days without being bored by it. The only thing I ever did was walk a lot and just keep active in daily life.

I find I have to eat less now because I can't be as active as I used to be -- or eat MORE of LESS calorie-dense foods.

ThomsonsPier · Post by **ThomsonsPier** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:10 pm

The body doesn't really start burning fat for about twenty minutes from the start of exercise, before that it's mostly easy energy from simple carbs; your kettlebell workout, therefore, is making you fitter and stronger rather than thinner.

This will help in the long run, as you're speeding up your metabolism and building muscle, which burns more calories just by existing (as an extension to this, working the bigger muscles more will burn calories faster). Eating soon after your workout will help, if you don't already, as exercise grants a short term boost to the metabolism for a couple of hours.

This last is the reason why frequent exercise is a better bet for weight loss; the primary factor isn't calories burned during exercise, but the increased burn for a time afterwards. Two sessions a week isn't enough to maintain a constant high level.

apomerantz · Post by **apomerantz** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:02 pm

Hi there!

I just wanted to introduce myself to you, because I'm also very petite - - 5 feet even, and started off with No S just a couple of days ago. My starting weight was 131 - - which is overweight by BMI standards.

The very sad thing is I exercise a LOT. At least 6 hours per week of intense cardio (running, spinning, snowshoeing), and now I've recently added in weight training. I did a half Ironman last summer. And even with all that activity, it was not enough to offset my eating habits - - which include snacking like crazy and lots of treats and total denial about the quantities of food I was consuming. It was always "just a bite" here and there - - 'cept here and there became 10x per day.

So, I'm pretty unqualified to give advice on eating, but on exercise - -well a bit more! You are doing some great exercise, but two 30 minute sessions are not enough, and I think that the type of exercise you are doing, while it certainly gets your heart rate up, it may not be the be sustained enough or in a high enough zone to give you the calorie burn you are looking for. But GOOD FOR YOU for getting the eating side of the equation under control . . .that's where I really struggle.

I'm a little worried that you haven't lost weight given you've done this for a month very consistently without cheating because I will admit I have high hopes for this plan. But I am such a snack/sweets hound, that I figure this has to cut calories out for me unless I just go totally nuts on the S days (I'm really a little scared of the S days right now . . .).

BrightAngel · Post by **BrightAngel** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 3:22 pm

apomerantz wrote:I just wanted to introduce myself to you, because I'm also very petite - - 5 feet even, and started off with No S just a couple of days ago. My starting weight was 131 - - which is overweight by BMI standards.

apomerantz,
I am very interested in watching your progress.

apomerantz · Post by **apomerantz** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 3:54 pm

Thanks, BrightAngel! My goal is 115 lbs - - and I honestly would not care if it took me two years to achieve it. I'm just very sick and tired of slowly creeping upward despite exercising as much as I do.

My pattern has definitely been one of very tight restriction/binging. Obviously the binging is outweighing the restricting . . .I'm very, very excited about No S. I like that it is a program with parameters, but that there is a lot of eating choice within the parameters. I quite love great food and cooking healthful meals from fresh ingredients . . .and it's just been so daunting to try to incorporate that into the restrictive plans I've tried in the past.

Your statistics are highly motivating to me. I'm a size 6 petite now - despite the ridiculously high scale weight - - so I know that even 10 lbs will get me to a good place. Even 5 lbs on us petites is significant!!

My fear is the "S" days and what I will do without any specific restrictions at all. But I have hope because right now my typical week has been starve Monday, starve Tuesday, and eat like a pig 10x per day for the rest of the week . . .not a great strategy I must say!!

vmsurbat · Post by **vmsurbat** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:14 pm

apomerantz wrote: Even 5 lbs on us petites is significant!!

My fear is the "S" days and what I will do without any specific restrictions at all. But I have hope because right now my typical week has been starve Monday, starve Tuesday, and eat like a pig 10x per day for the rest of the week . . .not a great strategy I must say!!

Apomerantz,

I'm also a petite (5'2") and have been doing NoS for six months now. I've lost 20 pounds, so I guess it is time to post on the testimonial page!

But, I'm really writing to encourage you about S days. It can be hard the first month (or two or three--only one for me) to "handle" S-days. But, the longer you keep on track midweek, the more those sensible habits will *naturally* overflow into S days.

I just had a delightful surprise. Due to the fact we live overseas, in another culture, we just had a month full of S days (2 Christmases (Dec. 25 and Jan. 7), 4 Saints Days, 2 birthdays, New Year's Eve, New Year's Day (big celebrations here), out-of-country visitors (3 different sets), AND kids home from college. I knew this would be a busy season of celebration and didn't worry about being strict with N days vs. S days, since so many days involved festivities.

But, after that whole month of not consciously working at keeping N days (if you saw my habitcal, I have a loonnnnng string of yellow boxes), I actually lost 1 lb--much less than my more typical 3 pounds per month--but still! I was/am truly delighted. I think that all those good Nday habits really have become *habits*, so I don't snack all day, pop the last bits of food into my mouth, eat more sweets *just* because I can, or take seconds unless they are REALLY, REALLY good. I have learned that seconds too often lead to an "overstuffed" feeling which I am now eager to avoid. Also, I like to think that for most of that time, the many extra NWS days ended up being S-events (eg. dessert at a meal), rather than a day to indulge food-wise, because (I am so happy to now really know this) the point was to enjoy special people, not to pig out on good food .

So, all that to say, for many of us, learning to handle Sdays is the hardest part, BUT all the N-day habits help towards that and then eating becomes a very freeing, very enjoyable experience.

Best of success to you,

apomerantz · Post by **apomerantz** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:39 pm

Vicki,

Thank you SO much for the encouragement. First, it's awesome to hear you've lost 20 lbs doing this. That's really good news.

Second, I really appreciate the encouragement on the "S" days. Tomorrow is my first S day, and I'm not sure what to think about it. I've been so pleased with how the N days are going . . .but it is very reassuring to hear that the habits do end up carrying over, and that your eating clearly stays in the moderate range. It's so awesome that you had that slew of holidays, and you STILL lost weight. Are you approaching your goal weight now, or do you still have a long ways to go? I'm a little concerned that because I don't have a lot to lose (15 lbs) that I won't lose . . .I hope I'm wrong. But I must say that I'm feeling really happy with the N days because I am enjoying my food a LOT more at the meals. It's a nice, reinforcing side effect of not snacking and not eating sugar all day long.

vmsurbat · Post by **vmsurbat** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:46 am

apomerantz wrote: Are you approaching your goal weight now, or do you still have a long ways to go? I'm a little concerned that because I don't have a lot to lose (15 lbs) that I won't lose . . .I hope I'm wrong.

Apomerantz,

I would not say that I am approaching my goal weight, but neither do I feel like I have a long ways to go! I estimate that I could safely (ie., healthily) stand to lose another 20 pounds or so. I don't expect to keep up the rate of losing approx. 3 lbs per month, though. I expect it to slowly taper off as I get closer to a sane weight because then I will be so much more closer to eating a "maintenance" amount of food. With NoS, the transition from "losing" to "maintaining" should be seamless.

Also, unless I read your post wrong, you already have a good exercise routine in your life--kudos to you! This is something I am working on (NoS-style--slowly and sustainably) and that probably has increased the amount of weight I am losing vs. following NoS only, as I am adding more movement to my day than I was pre-NoS.

So, I think you WILL lose weight but probably slowly, but THAT'S OK!!!

apomerantz wrote: But I must say that I'm feeling really happy with the N days because I am enjoying my food a LOT more at the meals. It's a nice, reinforcing side effect of not snacking and not eating sugar all day long.

This is the part that ultimately carries over to S days--you choose to eat sanely because THAT'S WHAT YOU REALLY WANT (not because you "should.") For me, the best part of NoS has been establishing a normal relationship with food--I feel nourished and sustained, all the while ENJOYING my food.

Glad to have been a help (I read the boards every day but post only very occasionally),

apomerantz · Post by **apomerantz** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:31 am

Well, I really appreciated that you posted a note of support for ME if you don't normally post. I'm excited for you - - you are halfway to your goal, and we sound like we are in about the same place now.

I do exercise a lot (you aren't mis-reading) - - and you know you've made me think about how that habit is one I have NO problem doing and enjoy. And why do I do it? For the same reason you just said my habit will carry over to the "S" days ultimately - - I do it because I do get enjoyment out of it now. It's still hard WHILE I'm doing it, but the pleasure I get from having done it outweighs the pain. I love feeling that my heart is strong and healthy and that I never need to think about whether I can do the physical things I enjoy (skiing, hiking) because I know I'm fit enough to do those things.

I guess I just was having a hard time conceiving that eating in a normal, moderate fashion might be more pleasurable than eating whatever I want 24x7. But this week has been pleasurable! So I have hope that I can make new habits and drop a few lbs in the process. Though I'd like to drop 15, I know that even 8 lbs on me will bring me to a place where I'm proud of my body (thank you exercise), so I'd just like to get back there, to the point I feel confident. SLOWLY losing would be just fine

.

Thanks so much for both your supportive notes. They are really wonderful. Today is my first "S" day. Already I feel a bit like "what do I DO?", but I'm sure I'll get the hang of things. My gut feeling is I just want it to be like an N day . . .but I did buy some ice cream in my favorite flavor, and I'm going to eat some because I want to be able to incorporate treats safely (without binging) for the long run even if I'm thinking that no sweets is feeling really good right now.

kccc · Post by **kccc** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:02 pm

apomerantz wrote: But I must say that I'm feeling really happy with the N days because I am enjoying my food a LOT more at the meals. It's a nice, reinforcing side effect of not snacking and not eating sugar all day long.

To me, this is THE biggest benefit of No-S. I feel so much more relaxed about food now. In contrast, I used to be so anxious about it ("okay, THIS is good for me, but THIS is fattening") that I could never just enjoy it.

My best S-days look like N-days with a fabulous treat in them, usually something really special. Homemade - I bake now, and make pies, etc. - or gourmet stuff.

Are they all like that? No. But it's okay if they're not. It's just a learning experience. Learn and move on. On my last S-day, I learned that I totally don't like the desserts at Ryans. They just don't satisfy me. I ate three before I figured out the reason I was still eating (even though full) was that it wasn't good enough. (And how many times do I keep eating because I'm "searching"? Hm.)

This is not a fast plan, but it offers enduring change.

Best wishes!

apomerantz · Post by **apomerantz** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 3:14 pm

Thanks for the good wishes, KCCC and for pointing out how the S days work for you. I know it is only my first week so of course I'm enthused and motivated at this stage, so it is gratifying to hear people speak of their success and how they feel.

I love food so there's plenty of foods that fit into my meals that I really enjoy and that aren't bad for me, just MODERATE. I've really had the mindset that moderate was not good, that I really had to eat very, very little or very, very low calorie. Like a typical lunch would be a Morningstar black bean burger (120 cal) on a flatbread (100 cal) with a few carrot sticks. And then I'd have a diet ice cream bar. The problem is that I'm dying to eat TWO diet ice cream bars. But I don't. And then I just eat "one cookie" a couple of hours later, which turns out to be five cookies. And then I nibble my way through my whole dinner prep because the drop in blood sugar from the cookie fiasco has made me ravenous. It's a horrible cycle.

This week, I ate a real lunch with real food, and I felt happy and satisfied and not all anxious about how much I wanted to eat junk, because I didn't want to eat it.

It's great to hear what your ideal S day is. I'm going to strive for that, though I must admit that one of my favorite desserts does happen to be this lower fat Thin mint slow churned ice cream, which doesn't sound quite the caliber of homemade pie! But I love, love ice cream to death so I know I want that for my treat. Maybe I'll have a little bit of decadent gourmet chocolate topping with it

. Maybe after my first month, I'll treat myself to an ice cream maker and make delicious homemade ice cream.

Everyday Systems

New and confused...

New and confused...

Thanks

Thanks again