Doubt re fruit
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Doubt re fruit
During my snacking days I ate a lot of fruit as snacks - under the misguided belief that it was okay to eat healthy stuff. I'd vacuum up a large mango or a huge bowl of grapes or a couple of bananas and feel virtuous. Now that snacking isn't an option, I am in a bit of a quandary re fruit. On one hand, fruit is not the part of our usual meals - Indian meals tend to be a combination of some carb (bread/rice), vegies and lentils. Should I eat my fruit after that as part of the plate? What about the business mentioned by Harvey Diamond in Fit for Life, that fruit eaten after a meal does nasty things in the body (he waxes rather eloquent and rather nauseatingly on fermeting fruit). Is it more healthy then, to eat fruit before a meal? If I look to traditional eating patters for clues, the elders in our families always ate fruit after the meal, as dessert, which makes me also wonder - when does fruit become a sweet?
Last edited by paprad on Thu May 20, 2010 10:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
getting there
I'd eat fruit after the meal as part of the regular plate.
Though some people swear by it, I don't think food combining, as Harvey Diamond writes about, has ever been proven to be the truth or anything near it. I've consumed my fruit at all the wrong times and never had a problem.
Though some people swear by it, I don't think food combining, as Harvey Diamond writes about, has ever been proven to be the truth or anything near it. I've consumed my fruit at all the wrong times and never had a problem.
"That which we persist in doing becomes easier for us to do. Not that the nature of the thing itself has changed but our power to do it is increased." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
"You are what you eat -- so don't be Fast, Easy, Cheap or Fake."
"You are what you eat -- so don't be Fast, Easy, Cheap or Fake."
Hi Paprad,
I too eat a lot of fruit and tended to use it as a healthy snack. The first time I did no-S I was unsuccessful. This was partly because I couldn't see how to fit fruit into mealtimes, and like you, began to think of it as dessert and therefore not an option.
This time I am being more successful because I have planned my meals to include fruit. Breakfast for me is fruit and a bowl of porridge. Obviously this doesn't fit on one plate (that would be disgusting
) but I know that it's a reasonable amount of food and it keeps me full until lunchtime. Lunch is a sandwich, cereal bar and 2-3 pieces of fruit. I know that these items fit comfortably onto the plate I normally use. Maybe you could try eating a bit less of your basic meal in order to add some fruit at the end?
I too eat a lot of fruit and tended to use it as a healthy snack. The first time I did no-S I was unsuccessful. This was partly because I couldn't see how to fit fruit into mealtimes, and like you, began to think of it as dessert and therefore not an option.
This time I am being more successful because I have planned my meals to include fruit. Breakfast for me is fruit and a bowl of porridge. Obviously this doesn't fit on one plate (that would be disgusting
) but I know that it's a reasonable amount of food and it keeps me full until lunchtime. Lunch is a sandwich, cereal bar and 2-3 pieces of fruit. I know that these items fit comfortably onto the plate I normally use. Maybe you could try eating a bit less of your basic meal in order to add some fruit at the end?Thanks wosnes and idon'tknow - I tried that today for lunch. It's mango season here in India and they are simply too delish to avoid, so I firmly had a smaller lunch so I could have some chunks of mango as part of the meal. I also realized that it was after aeons that I ate mango without guilt - usually it formed a snack and I would feel awful at such a calorie-bomb snack, but this time I felt positively virtuous.
I'm glad the Fit for Life theories haven't proven a problem for you, wosnes - Diamond's recommendation that we eat nothing but fruit till noon and no fruit after that, was too punishing for a fruitivore like me.
I'm glad the Fit for Life theories haven't proven a problem for you, wosnes - Diamond's recommendation that we eat nothing but fruit till noon and no fruit after that, was too punishing for a fruitivore like me.
getting there
I've mentioned numerous times previously here that I'm not much of a breakfast eater. When I do eat breakfast, it's generally heavy on the fruit because it's light and tastes good to me. I don't eat much fruit the rest of the day. There's no specific reason or dietary theory behind this, it's just the way that feels and tastes good to me. I do like fruit in some savory dishes.paprad wrote: I'm glad the Fit for Life theories haven't proven a problem for you, wosnes - Diamond's recommendation that we eat nothing but fruit till noon and no fruit after that, was too punishing for a fruitivore like me.
"That which we persist in doing becomes easier for us to do. Not that the nature of the thing itself has changed but our power to do it is increased." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
"You are what you eat -- so don't be Fast, Easy, Cheap or Fake."
"You are what you eat -- so don't be Fast, Easy, Cheap or Fake."
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clarinetgal
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In terms of fruits being possible sweets, I would go easy on dried fruits and eat only the number of them that I would eat if I were eating the non-dried version. I will usually mix them into something else, such as oatmeal or yogurt, to let them plump back up. Other than being careful with these, I would never regard them as a sweet. A sweet is determined by the concentration of refined sugar, I would say, not when it is eaten. Therefore, cooked fruits with added sugar would be a sweet, but not a pear, for example.
I tend to have a fruit at lunch and dinner, on my plate. Unlike others, I don't have it at breakfast always, though I don't avoid it then, either.
Reinhard says when you realize that your 3 meals a day on N days are it, you might get more conscientious about eating what you know you "should" (not in so many words). I interpreted it to mean something like we know humans ate vegetables and fruits for millions of years, so we probably need to include them. I am willing to choose foods for their nutritional value when I know I also like them and have come to prefer the variation in textures. I also choose them because I know the variety of colors in our fresh foods contributes to our getting phytonutrients. But in terms of losing weight, as long as a person was savoring each bite and eating just enough to be satisfied at each meal, s/he would still lose weight most likely even with eating more dense foods--not covering every inch of an 11-inch plate, mind you.
In any case, you may have to deviate from a traditional meal to include your fruit by putting it on your plate and serving yourself the other elements of your meal around it, but that is perfectly acceptable. I think Diamond's theory has not held water, and there are other health systems that say exactly the opposite. The macrobiotic proponents say all fruit should be cooked. So who's to know? Make up your plate with foods you enjoy and that make you feel good, and be willing to notice as time goes on if that changes. I think you'll do fine.
Also, remember Reinhard was never saying that a fruit snack was inherently bad; it just set up the habit of snacking and would often not make any difference in the caloric intake of the next meal, whether it was an 80-calorie apple or a 210-calorie bag of chips. It was just a rule to promote simplicity.
Happy S day, everyone!
I tend to have a fruit at lunch and dinner, on my plate. Unlike others, I don't have it at breakfast always, though I don't avoid it then, either.
Reinhard says when you realize that your 3 meals a day on N days are it, you might get more conscientious about eating what you know you "should" (not in so many words). I interpreted it to mean something like we know humans ate vegetables and fruits for millions of years, so we probably need to include them. I am willing to choose foods for their nutritional value when I know I also like them and have come to prefer the variation in textures. I also choose them because I know the variety of colors in our fresh foods contributes to our getting phytonutrients. But in terms of losing weight, as long as a person was savoring each bite and eating just enough to be satisfied at each meal, s/he would still lose weight most likely even with eating more dense foods--not covering every inch of an 11-inch plate, mind you.
In any case, you may have to deviate from a traditional meal to include your fruit by putting it on your plate and serving yourself the other elements of your meal around it, but that is perfectly acceptable. I think Diamond's theory has not held water, and there are other health systems that say exactly the opposite. The macrobiotic proponents say all fruit should be cooked. So who's to know? Make up your plate with foods you enjoy and that make you feel good, and be willing to notice as time goes on if that changes. I think you'll do fine.
Also, remember Reinhard was never saying that a fruit snack was inherently bad; it just set up the habit of snacking and would often not make any difference in the caloric intake of the next meal, whether it was an 80-calorie apple or a 210-calorie bag of chips. It was just a rule to promote simplicity.
Happy S day, everyone!
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23
There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)
Age 69
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23
There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)
Thanks for your thoughts, oolala. The tip regarding dried fruits is quite apt - I tend to overdo them because they are small and deceptively loaded. I enjoy muesli with dried fruit and as I read your mail I realized that could be a hidden source of eating fruit as well, which I hadn't counted.
getting there
Here's an easy solution that is 100% compatible with both the literal no-s rules and the traditional indian cuisine you describe:On one hand, fruit is not the part of our usual meals - Indian meals tend to be a combination of some carb (bread/rice), vegies and lentils. Should I eat my fruit after that as part of the plate?
1. Put your fruit on the plate to make sure it could fit.
2. Take the fruit off before you begin eating and eat it before or after.
I wouldn't worry about Harvey Diamond's theory. Sounds like quackery from my limited poking around. In any case, there are many traditions (like every diet guru's favorite, the French) in which after meals are the most usual time to eat fruit. I certainly haven't noticed any ill effects myself.
Best luck, whatever you decide,
Reinhard
fruit "serving"
i generally like half my plate covered with either fruit or veggies- the closer to raw the better.
Breakfast this morning- 1/2 plateful of farm fresh strawberries (i love the farmer's market) and a piece of wheat toast with peanut butter. i'm out of milk (the horror!) so i decided to go for a small scoop (1/4- 1/3c) of unsweetened yogurt.
i try to eat more raw veggies than cooked ones, but that's a little harder. last night was 1/2 and 1/2 thanks to some yummy fresh tomatoes (raw) and some stir fried crimini mushrooms, radishes and onions.
as for fruit counting as dessert or being eaten before or after- it's on the plate. it doesn't matter the order. and honestly? i doubt anyone gets fat eating unsweetened, fresh fruit as "dessert."
Breakfast this morning- 1/2 plateful of farm fresh strawberries (i love the farmer's market) and a piece of wheat toast with peanut butter. i'm out of milk (the horror!) so i decided to go for a small scoop (1/4- 1/3c) of unsweetened yogurt.
i try to eat more raw veggies than cooked ones, but that's a little harder. last night was 1/2 and 1/2 thanks to some yummy fresh tomatoes (raw) and some stir fried crimini mushrooms, radishes and onions.
as for fruit counting as dessert or being eaten before or after- it's on the plate. it doesn't matter the order. and honestly? i doubt anyone gets fat eating unsweetened, fresh fruit as "dessert."