Discouraged - in need of a simple tweak

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:08 pm

After almost 2 years of following vanilla No S, I find myself more and more discouraged with the concept of unrestricted S days. I've managed to lose all the weight I needed to, true, and I'll be forever grateful to Reinhard for helping in this monumental task, but I've noticed that the longer I'm doing vanilla, the wilder my S days get

I'm really worried that they're screwing up my head and reinforce diet mentality of "tomorrow will be different" and "famine is coming, OMG OMG, cram in as much sugar as you can!". Each weekend I seem to be consuming more and more sweets. Years of dieting and emotional overeating have apparently taken their toll... I'm probably better off imposing some clear-cut rules than taking metaphorical three steps back every weekend.
Is anyone doing Reinhard's mod of "lowercase/uppercase" S days (1 S per ordinary S day/unrestricted special S days)? Its simplicity is really appealing to me right now. Any experiences, warnings, comments?

wosnes · Post by **wosnes** » Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:17 pm

I'm not sure this will be helpful to you, but here goes:

After having read a lot about how the French and Italians eat, I've modified my way of eating to be more like their ways of eating. While they do tend to eat sweets more on weekends (when they may bake at home), they're not forbidden during the week.

I've completely stopped snacking. I allow myself one S daily and they don't accumulate. It's easy to keep track. Not only does it feel a lot more relaxed and "normal" to me than keeping S's for weekends, I'm indulging less.

I allow myself to eat without restrictions on holidays and "once in a lifetime" occasions, like my daughter's wedding.

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:46 pm

I'm always grateful for your thoughtful input, wosnes

I've been reading about your mod somewhere, and I do admit it sounds very... normal. Normalcy is exactly what I'd love to emulate... and something I'm constantly struggling with.
I've been considering allowing myself one (non-accumulative) S daily, in the spirit of "reduce the variability of behaviour, not the behaviour itself" advice from The Willpower Instinct. I'm just reeeeeally nervous it would quickly get out of control. The more sugar I eat, the more I seem to be craving it. Besides, I'm wondering about caloric impact of a daily treat. Do you stick to any limits?

wosnes · Post by **wosnes** » Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:57 pm

Imogen Morley wrote:Besides, I'm wondering about caloric impact of a daily treat. Do you stick to any limits?

Before I started doing this, I looked at how much I was indulging on the weekends. I was easily having a couple of sweets each day, plus possibly some other kind of snack. So allowing one S daily spread out what I was doing over the course of a week instead of over two days. I don't think the caloric impact is any different than when I had two S days weekly.

It probably helps that I don't like really fancy desserts and am not crazy about chocolate desserts (they're usually too over the top for me). Even chocolate cookies or brownies with chocolate chips are too much for me.

Cookies are my absolute favorite, and I usually limit it to two, unless they're very large (then one) or very small (then what fits in the palm of my hand).

Beyond that, my favorites are things like bread pudding, rice pudding and fruit crisps, crumbles and cobblers. The recipes I use fit into an 8x8 or a 1 quart pan. That's usually about four servings. If I make cupcakes or brownies, I freeze them in individual portions as soon as they're cool. I've learned to make rather small batches of most things thanks to Small Batch Baking and various cookbooks for 1-2.

The most important thing isn't that I have a sweet treat daily, it's knowing that I can if I want.

clarinetgal · Post by **clarinetgal** » Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:48 am

Wosnes, So do you eat your S with one of your meals, since you don't snack? I know when I've tried Vanilla No S in the past, I always WAY overindulged on the weekends, and I'm thinking a daily S plus only a few unrestricted eating days (Thanksgiving, Christmas, my birthday, big family events) might work better for me.

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:19 am

Clarinetgal, that's not exactly the answer to your question, but I'd definitely have my treat after dinner, so I could look forward to it all day. Besides, starting my morning with sugar leads to terrible cravings later.
wosnes, your idea of spreading your sweets intake over the course of the week sounds very sensible. On a typical weekend, I consume 1200-2000 calories from treats ALONE. I don't think it's very healthy, so if I was to adopt your mod, I'd most definitely stick to some predetermined limits... not necessarily caloric, but maybe eating just half of my treat and saving some for next day? Having caloric budget would backfire, I guess, because I'd be consuming some overprocessed crap I don't even particularly like just because it has "the right number".

wosnes · Post by **wosnes** » Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:02 am

clarinetgal wrote:Wosnes, So do you eat your S with one of your meals, since you don't snack? I know when I've tried Vanilla No S in the past, I always WAY overindulged on the weekends, and I'm thinking a daily S plus only a few unrestricted eating days (Thanksgiving, Christmas, my birthday, big family events) might work better for me.

Yes, I have my treat after a meal and it doesn't matter which one.

wosnes · Post by **wosnes** » Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:42 am

Imogen Morley wrote:Clarinetgal, that's not exactly the answer to your question, but I'd definitely have my treat after dinner, so I could look forward to it all day. Besides, starting my morning with sugar leads to terrible cravings later.
wosnes, your idea of spreading your sweets intake over the course of the week sounds very sensible. On a typical weekend, I consume 1200-2000 calories from treats ALONE. I don't think it's very healthy, so if I was to adopt your mod, I'd most definitely stick to some predetermined limits... not necessarily caloric, but maybe eating just half of my treat and saving some for next day? Having caloric budget would backfire, I guess, because I'd be consuming some overprocessed crap I don't even particularly like just because it has "the right number".

About the only time I save some of a treat for later is if I eat at a restaurant and order dessert. I can control the portions at home. I don't make "skimpy" portions, but I don't make huge portions, either.

clarinetgal · Post by **clarinetgal** » Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:10 pm

Thanks, Imogen and wosnes!

r.jean · Post by **r.jean** » Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:51 pm

I am thinking of using wosnes plan on my three week vacation which starts today. The middle week is a cruise. I can stick to 3 meals, but I like to take part in the desserts at dinner. I do not think I will adopt this mod forever, but it might be a great mod for vacation!

Thanks for the ideas!

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:07 am

I've been at it for 34 months and my S days are finally winding down. I do have to use some thought about it, sometimes reminding myself how overly full I will feel if I keep eating, even though I may want to. But S's appeal less, too. I'm having way less than I used to and can even envision having whole days, if not the whole weekend, go by without sweets or even snacks. I'm just don't get hungry enough between meals to justify snacks, though that's when I've been having sweets because this month, I'm limiting them to ones I can eat with company, not alone. I'm actually eating less in volume on weekends than on N days. If I do have even just a few cookies in the afternoon, I'll have only a light dinner because I just don't get hungry.

I'd be very wary of having sweets more often for myself. They take my appetite away too much!

But I'd say after two years, try any mod that sounds reasonable.

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:45 pm

I'll definitely try it and post results here after the first week

Clarinetgal, are you with me?

wosnes · Post by **wosnes** » Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:31 pm

oolala53 wrote: I'd be very wary of having sweets more often for myself. They take my appetite away too much!

When you're having the sweets after a meal and it's hours or overnight before the next meal, they don't act as much of an appetite suppressant. And remember, it's not everyday. As I've said, I can have something daily, but that doesn't mean that I do.

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Tue Nov 06, 2012 4:15 pm

wosnes wrote: As I've said, I can have something daily, but that doesn't mean that I do.

"Legalizing" your forbidden fruit, whatever that might be, can work wonders in diminishing your appetite for it. It does, however, require a great deal of awareness and attention, which - let's face it - feels like a lot of work. Right now I'm feeling strong enough to handle it.

clarinetgal · Post by **clarinetgal** » Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:43 am

Imogen, Yes, I'd love to try it with you! I sort of did okay today with having sweets after a meal, although I felt like I could have had a little less, so I will try to be more controlled tomorrow. At least it was a good start.

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:12 am

I've just had pastry for lunch (first S this week), with almonds and fruit on the side - I feel gross without enough fiber and protein. I'm going out for dinner with a friend this afternoon, but I doubt I'll be ordering dessert, unless I come across something I've been recently dreaming about, like creme brulee or green tea ice cream.

Sinnie · Post by **Sinnie** » Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:40 pm

I'm going to join on this little No S mod venture. I used to do a daily sweet and it worked phenomenally. But, I always sabotage myself, for various reasons. Everything is going great, and then I start to feel guilty for eating too much processed foods, or not enough fiber, or....etc...you get the idea. Then I binge out of frustration and need to find a new mod, or do vanilla, or....

So, given everything that has worked for me so far - this has been the best mod. I get something sweet everyday which doesn't qualify as a failure and I eliminate S days which is just an excuse to binge eat for me. I also do better because I have somethign to look forward to so I don't feel the need to keep eating and eating at dinner.

I hope this works out for us!

clarinetgal · Post by **clarinetgal** » Thu Nov 08, 2012 6:56 am

I did well up until tonight, when I slipped up and had some extra Trader Joe's dark chocolate peanut butter cups after dinner. I made DH hide the peanut butter cups, so that should remove that temptation. I won't give up on this mod yet, but I will definitely need some strict limits for myself.

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:47 am

Sinnie wrote:I'm going to join on this little No S mod venture (.....) I start to feel guilty for eating too much processed foods, or not enough fiber, or....etc...you get the idea. Then I binge out of frustration and need to find a new mod, or do vanilla, or....

Welcome aboard! I can totally relate to your post.
Yesterday I did end up ordering cheesecake which I split with my friend. In that particular restaurant it used to be one of my favourite desserts, but the quality has gone down considerably. But although I was disappointed with the cheesecake which didn't live up to my expectations/memories, my resentment was fleeting and insignificant, so I didn't feel the gnawing need to stuff my face in the hope to be satisfied at last.
I'm wondering if it's all just hormonal... in the first part of my cycle I don't have much appetite for sweets, whereas in the last two weeks I could devour my weight in sugar.
One thing I've noticed: slow, mindful eating and taking tiny bites makes me satisfied sooner.

eschano · Post by **eschano** » Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:48 am

I'll use this mod for holidays from now on. I don't want Christmas to become a reason for deprivation-mentality and don't want to gain without limit either. I think this is a great mod for the 22nd December - 1st Jan which is when I'm on holiday.
Until then: plain Vanilla for me.

Many thanks for sharing.

wosnes · Post by **wosnes** » Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:59 am

Imogen Morley wrote:
Sinnie wrote:I'm going to join on this little No S mod venture (.....) I start to feel guilty for eating too much processed foods, or not enough fiber, or....etc...you get the idea. Then I binge out of frustration and need to find a new mod, or do vanilla, or....
Welcome aboard! I can totally relate to your post.
Yesterday I did end up ordering cheesecake which I split with my friend. In that particular restaurant it used to be one of my favourite desserts, but the quality has gone down considerably. But although I was disappointed with the cheesecake which didn't live up to my expectations/memories, my resentment was fleeting and insignificant, so I didn't feel the gnawing need to stuff my face in the hope to be satisfied at last.
I'm wondering if it's all just hormonal... in the first part of my cycle I don't have much appetite for sweets, whereas in the last two weeks I could devour my weight in sugar.
One thing I've noticed: slow, mindful eating and taking tiny bites makes me satisfied sooner.

I've had the same experience with some desserts at restaurants not being as good as I remembered them. It tends to make me think before ordering them. I've also noticed that smaller portions of really rich desserts are far more satisfying.

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Thu Nov 08, 2012 3:53 pm

clarinetgal wrote:I won't give up on this mod yet, but I will definitely need some strict limits for myself.

Some food for thought - what my (slim) colleague said today:
"I eat whatever I want, whenever I want, just not as much of it as I'd like". More elegant paraphrase of "don't be an idiot" rule, which I'm constantly reminding myself of.

wosnes · Post by **wosnes** » Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:36 pm

Imogen Morley wrote:
clarinetgal wrote:I won't give up on this mod yet, but I will definitely need some strict limits for myself.
Some food for thought - what my (slim) colleague said today:
"I eat whatever I want, whenever I want, just not as much of it as I'd like". More elegant paraphrase of "don't be an idiot" rule, which I'm constantly reminding myself of.

Giada De Laurentiis has often been asked how she stays so slim and her answer is small portions of everything (not just desserts).

Food Network star Giada De Laurentiis is around delicious food all day long, but still manages to maintain her toned size 2 physique, thanks to portion control and exercise.

"That's the No. 1 question [people ask me: 'How do you eat great food all day and stay slim?'] and the answer is, I eat a little bit of everything and not a lot of anything," De Laurentiis says in the May 2012 issue of Health. "Everything in moderation."

The 5'3" Giada, 41, says the key is to never overeat. "I know thatâ€™s really hard for people to understand, but I grew up in an Italian family where we didnâ€™t overdo anything," she says. "We ate pasta, yes, but not a lot of it. Pasta doesnâ€™t make you fat. How much pasta you eat makes you fat."

Sinnie · Post by **Sinnie** » Thu Nov 08, 2012 6:39 pm

What a great thread, there is so much useful advice!!! I love the Giada quote, it's so true and I believe she really does that. No S has taught me its possible to actually eat (unlike a diet where its all about NOT eating) and be quite trim. If I eliminated the overeating, as Giada states, I wonder the possibilities of how much better it could be...

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Thu Nov 08, 2012 7:35 pm

Great quote! Many chefs and food aficionados confess they eat whatever they want, only in small portions. I think it's doable, but needs to be practised until it becomes a habit - you have to fake it till you really feel satisfied with small serving. After almost 2 years of No S I virtually never overeat "regular" food, only sugar, and I believe much of it is emotional - during the week sugar is scarce, which creates anxiety, and anxiety drives me to eat sweets "just in case", for the future.
Another very helpful quote from positive psychology studies: "Remember that eating two pieces of cake in one sitting isn't twice as good as eating one. Space out and/or postpone your consumption to get maximum enjoyment. The pleasure derived from eating cake won't continue indefinitely. So, eating one piece of cake feels good, eating twenty pieces of cake won't feel like 20 units of good. Utility diminishes, you see. Don't think that two pieces of cake will make you feel twice as good. Savor that one slice".
Following this advice, I've had two cookies my mother baked this afternoon. They're most certainly very special, as they appear on the table only around my father's birthday. I was taking tiny, mindful bites, then immediately poured myself a cup of hot green tea to create "closure" of sorts. So far so good!
I am tremendously happy that this thread is helpful to all of you interested in this simple (yet sometimes so difficult!) mod

wosnes · Post by **wosnes** » Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:43 pm

Imogen Morley wrote:"Remember that eating two pieces of cake in one sitting isn't twice as good as eating one. Space out and/or postpone your consumption to get maximum enjoyment. The pleasure derived from eating cake won't continue indefinitely. So, eating one piece of cake feels good, eating twenty pieces of cake won't feel like 20 units of good. Utility diminishes, you see. Don't think that two pieces of cake will make you feel twice as good. Savor that one slice".
Following this advice, I've had two cookies my mother baked this afternoon. They're most certainly very special, as they appear on the table only around my father's birthday. I was taking tiny, mindful bites, then immediately poured myself a cup of hot green tea to create "closure" of sorts. So far so good!
I am tremendously happy that this thread is helpful to all of you interested in this simple (yet sometimes so difficult!) mod

Sometime shortly after I started No-S, I wrote that one of the things we needed to do concerning our food was "stop and savor." Essentially pay attention or be mindful when eating.

I think part of the reason we overdo is that we eat on the run and whether it's a meal or a treat, we don't get enjoyment from it largely because we don't remember having eaten.

In France, for instance, people don't eat in the car, don't eat when walking down the street and so on. When it's time to eat (even the children for their afternoon snack), you sit at the table and eat. It makes eating more pleasurable.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:59 am

I think that's one of the reasons it's usually a mistake to eat standing up. I find I want to eat faster if I'm standing.

I'd say savoring food has been an essential part of No S.

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:04 am

This is why I've stopped buying an ice cream cone whenever I'm shopping at a certain place - no quiet place to sit and enjoy it mindfully.

clarinetgal · Post by **clarinetgal** » Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:19 am

I love this thread! I hope we can keep it going!

Sinnie · Post by **Sinnie** » Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:23 pm

Agreed!

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:21 pm

Two cookies from yesterday's batch and two squares of dark chocolate after dinner. But then, I eat dark chocolate purely for health resons.
Thought of the day: I don't want to restrict myself and vow to eat only one S a day or something, because if I messed up, I'd binge. So instead I try to eat sanely, and not out of compulsion. Two cookies plus some healthy chocolate fit my idea of sane (and still pleasurable) eating.
How's everybody doing?

clarinetgal · Post by **clarinetgal** » Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:57 am

I'm still working on it. I did slip up and get a Starbucks peppermint mocha between breakfast and lunch, and I realized, while drinking it, that it tasted almost overpoweringly sweet to me. That was just the encouragement I needed to hold off on the Starbucks drinks until at least after Thankgiving, if not even longer. I'll definitely keep working on this mod. I also decided today that I'm not going to go out of my way to buy sweets to have around the house. If I don't have some sort of sweet around the house, I'll either skip sweets for the day or bake something (which would taste better anyway).

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:28 am

clarinetgal wrote:I also decided today that I'm not going to go out of my way to buy sweets to have around the house. If I don't have some sort of sweet around the house, I'll either skip sweets for the day or bake something (which would taste better anyway).

*nods* I second that. If I have a hankering for something particular, I either get a single serving of it, or - if that's impossible - I immediately share it with others, so there are no tempting leftovers lying around the house.

wosnes · Post by **wosnes** » Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:28 am

Imogen Morley wrote:Two cookies from yesterday's batch and two squares of dark chocolate after dinner. But then, I eat dark chocolate purely for health resons.

In reading about the French I've noticed that they often have chocolate daily -- there's even a chocolate "sandwich" that children may have at their daily snack. They don't seem to consider dark chocolate a sweet or a treat OR a health food. Chocolate is almost another category of food.

Sinnie · Post by **Sinnie** » Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:49 pm

No binging since starting this mod. I totally agree with your thought of the day Imogen. I'm with you 100% - same happens to me.

Yesterday I had a mini chocolate aero with lunch - and can I say that although cheap candy bars taste great at the time, there is nothing remotely satisfying about them.

After dinner I had a peanut butter chocolate cup (homemade). And completely stopped there. Very happy!

Weight is even down a pound. I decided I didn't care as long as i wasn't binging. But its a nice bonus!

wosnes · Post by **wosnes** » Sat Nov 10, 2012 1:41 pm

I've read in couple of places that when we eat sweets at the end of a meal instead of between meals, it doesn't cause the same blood sugar spike. In addition, women who eat their sweets (including soft drinks, juices, pancakes with syrup and so on) with meals are lighter than women who consume them between meals.

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:47 pm

Sinnie: great news! I'm also down a pound (in spite of having sweets most days this week), although I suppose I don't really need to lose any more weight. But, exactly as you said, sane eating, not some arbitrary number on a scale, is the goal of this mod.
wosnes: that's what I'm trying to do, not having sweets as snacks. Sugar on empty stomach makes my cravings enormous!

vmsurbat · Post by **vmsurbat** » Sat Nov 10, 2012 4:34 pm

wosnes wrote: In reading about the French I've noticed that they often have chocolate daily -- there's even a chocolate "sandwich" that children may have at their daily snack. They don't seem to consider dark chocolate a sweet or a treat OR a health food. Chocolate is almost another category of food.

Our Danish friends introduced us to a common Danish breakfast or afternoon treat: a slice of good bread toasted, smeared with a little fresh butter, and then topped with a paper-thin slice (bought this way at the store--you get a dozen or more slices in a box) of dark chocolate. Paired with a cup of good coffee, all I can say is "mmm." And where we live, in Montenegro, Nutella (more accurately, a local version called Eurocrem) on bread is a standard breakfast.

The one and only "diet" book besides NoS that I have in the house is the New Sonoma Diet. If one skips the 10-day first phase, the rest of the book is remarkably NoS friendly: 3 good meals a day, no category of food is off limits, portions are determined by plate size, encouraged to sit and enjoy at least (preferably more) one meal a day, etc. I got it because we naturally tend to eat a Mediterranean-style diet and I appreciated the recipes with realistic portion sizes: so many modern cookbook recipes are jumbo-sized servings as typical portions and was doubly-glad to see NoS wisdom reinforced once again!

wosnes · Post by **wosnes** » Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:00 pm

vmsurbat wrote: The one and only "diet" book besides NoS that I have in the house is the New Sonoma Diet. If one skips the 10-day first phase, the rest of the book is remarkably NoS friendly: 3 good meals a day, no category of food is off limits, portions are determined by plate size, encouraged to sit and enjoy at least (preferably more) one meal a day, etc. I got it because we naturally tend to eat a Mediterranean-style diet and I appreciated the recipes with realistic portion sizes: so many modern cookbook recipes are jumbo-sized servings as typical portions and was doubly-glad to see NoS wisdom reinforced once again!

I stumbled across a similar book, but I haven't read it (yet) so can't really recommend it.

I find the same with many of today's cookbook authors, cooking shows and bloggers. There's one in particular whose recipes supposedly are designed to serve four -- most of the time. I can cut them in half, serve four and still have leftovers.

I'm also fond of a Mediterranean style diet. In addition to the taste, one of the things I like most about the food, especially Italian (because I'm most familiar with it), is the simplicity of it.

As I'm typing this I'm also watching Lidia's Italy. In this episode she's doing shrimp dishes (Shrimp Parmesan, Shrimp Scampi, Shrimp Fra Diavolo). None are complicated -- and I have the ingredients for all of them on hand. I know that one of them is going to be dinner.

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Sun Nov 11, 2012 7:26 pm

Not so happy update: I've overdone sweets today - three slices of birthday cake, countless (and mindlessly eaten!) cookies, several caramels... After re-reading "The Willpower Instinct", I might actually use the mandatory 10-minute waiting period before I give in to temptation next time. Much of what I've consumed today was eaten out of compulsion - maybe some unconscious, leftover S-day fear of scarcity, too?
Yesterday, I had a HUGE bowl of ice cream with toppings which made me feel almost sick (restaurant portions are enormous). I'd have been much happier with something lighter. I also had a small piece of pastry with my breakfast.
Gotta get up and get going again. I don't want to punish myself or restrict, but I think I need a couple of sugar-free days to recover, just to balance things out. Can't decide if it's a good idea or not - I don't want diet mentality kicking in..
How's your weekend been?

wosnes · Post by **wosnes** » Sun Nov 11, 2012 11:06 pm

Imogen Morley wrote:Not so happy update: I've overdone sweets today - three slices of birthday cake, countless (and mindlessly eaten!) cookies, several caramels... After re-reading "The Willpower Instinct", I might actually use the mandatory 10-minute waiting period before I give in to temptation next time. Much of what I've consumed today was eaten out of compulsion - maybe some unconscious, leftover S-day fear of scarcity, too?
Yesterday, I had a HUGE bowl of ice cream with toppings which made me feel almost sick (restaurant portions are enormous). I'd have been much happier with something lighter. I also had a small piece of pastry with my breakfast.
Gotta get up and get going again. I don't want to punish myself or restrict, but I think I need a couple of sugar-free days to recover, just to balance things out. Can't decide if it's a good idea or not - I don't want diet mentality kicking in..
How's your weekend been?

I had a bad day yesterday, too. Here's what I think: it was a bad day. They're going to happen now and then. We're going to have good days, bad days and downright awful days. We're going to make mistakes now and then. We're not perfect.

I'm staying away from books like "The Willpower Instinct." I used to be a huge fan, but they can be as confusing and contradictory as many diet books. I think they may cause us to over think behaviors that are normal.

clarinetgal · Post by **clarinetgal** » Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:16 am

My day was actually pretty good! I did have some peppermint creamer in my coffee along with some peppermint whipped cream, and I had a Starbucks caramel brulee latte, but that was it, for sweets.

That was actually the best eating day I've had in awhile.

Sinnie · Post by **Sinnie** » Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:13 pm

Wow, clarinetgal - that's awesome

Imogen, ME TOO. Yesterday (Sunday) I did not do well. It started after breakfast when I felt hungry and had a few bites of DH's toast...and continued while cleaning up (had a cookie, some yogurt). Then between lunch had some chocolate, and more sweets before dinner. Didn't binge which is a great improvement, but still, I did not stick to a proper routine of eating which is my goal.

I agree with Wosnes that this happens and not to fret. I also am in agreement with you that I have some sugar-free days. I am going to try Vanilla today just to seehow it goes.

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:58 pm

Piles of homemade cookies and really decadent cake my mom's baked... a recipe for disaster. Yesterday's trend continues, but I'm trying to put the brakes on this behaviour.
Any encouraging catchphrases/mantras that could keep me away from the fridge?

clarinetgal · Post by **clarinetgal** » Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:09 am

Well, I didn't have the best day today. My eating schedule was thrown WAY off, and I binged on too many sweets. Oh well. I will definitely get back on track tomorrow. Imogen, I don't have any catchphrases or mantras, but I'm hoping somebody will chime in, because I could use one, too.

wosnes · Post by **wosnes** » Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:34 am

I thought of a catch phrase or mantra. You will be familiar with it.

Progress, not perfection.

Sinnie · Post by **Sinnie** » Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:02 pm

I did so well yesterday, and then started to get really hungry in the evening. After a perfect vanilla day, I had 1/2 cookie, 1/2 pb cup and slice of bread with peanut butter. I only stopped myself there because I didn't want DH seeing me binging.

Feeling discouraged that I gave up so close to the end of the day. Can't help but feel defeated. I started thinking to myself, I can't go day in and day out feeling hungry like this. I should just count calories etc etc. I soon realize nothing else works for me, but in that moment of hunger, i don't WANT tea or juice or milk or....etc. I want FOOD! And feel i am being inhumane to myself if I deny it. Completely absurd and I hate it. I know how happy I'd be if by Christmas I could have my habits under control.

wosnes · Post by **wosnes** » Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:36 pm

So, Sinnie, Imogene, and others....what would you tell anyone else who slipped?

Don't be so hard on yourselves. You're human. You make mistakes and, while hopefully you learn from them -- at some point you're probably going to repeat them.

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:41 pm

wosnes, as always, I very much appreciate your thoughts. Progress, yes, that's what we're all expecting from this mod.
Maybe we should just be more patient... I know that November and December are always punctuated with birthdays, namedays, and various other celebrations, and I know I will take advantage of them. But it won't always be so. I'm not going to give it up.
I'll be attenting my father's birthday party tonight. I don't have any strategies/plans... I'll just try to eat sanely.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:55 pm

I live alone and have a lot of meals alone, so my November mod is working well for me: sweets and snacks on S days only in company. I attended two events, one each day this weekend, so I had the cookies available at the events as snacks, as they were offered with tea at a break. It worked out well. I had spent so many months feeling I ate too much with little joy that I finally got tired enough of it to be willing to use a mod. It's amazing how much still feels so automatic. Just driving by certain grocery stores can make me think I should run in and get malted milk balls or some such sweet I used to get even though I haven't bought them from that store in over six months. Thankfully, it was easy to brush aside those thoughts and the automatic ones for other snacks I might have grazed on before.

Thanksgiving Day will be an absolutely free day.

wosnes · Post by **wosnes** » Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:11 pm

Imogen Morley wrote:wosnes, as always, I very much appreciate your thoughts. Progress, yes, that's what we're all expecting from this mod.
Maybe we should just be more patient... I know that November and December are always punctuated with birthdays, namedays, and various other celebrations, and I know I will take advantage of them. But it won't always be so. I'm not going to give it up.
I'll be attenting my father's birthday party tonight. I don't have any strategies/plans... I'll just try to eat sanely.

I think when you first start this mod it's more difficult. There's a bit of a tendency to overdo -- like first being given a freedom or privilege.

Sinnie · Post by **Sinnie** » Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:16 pm

Well, I'm just feeling kinda "don't care right now" - annoyed at work, tired, lots to do, got some bad news...
So I was going to grab some candy and shove it down. Then I told myself, you can have WHATEVER you want with lunch, but just don't snack. After I ate lunch I added a small pack of halloween candy and didn't turn the day into what would have inevitably been a binge day.

clarinetgal · Post by **clarinetgal** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:34 am

Good job, Sinnie! I followed the letter of the mod, so to speak (as in only having one dessert with lunch), but not the spirit of the mod. The cookie I ate was large, so I probably should have eaten just half of it, because my lunch was also big. Oh well. I'll do better tomorrow.

Sinnie · Post by **Sinnie** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:56 pm

You did much better than me, Clarinetgal. I ended up having a binge of a day. Totally wild. Gained 2 lbs I believe. I'm not sure whether I should just focus on 3 meals without the sweets. Maybe even the possibility of having something means I will, and possibly overdo it. I don't know. Progress...progress...I keep telling myself. Not giving up though. Never will. Another day to try to do a good job.

Sinnie · Post by **Sinnie** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:07 pm

I never heard of lowercase/uppercase S day mod - anyone know where I can read on it? I didn't see a podcast.

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:32 pm

Sinnie, it's in "S Days Gone Wild" podcast, somewhere at the bottom, where Reinhard discusses potential solutions to the problem.

wosnes · Post by **wosnes** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:04 pm

You know how Reinhard wrote "sometimes" for S days. Well, it's the same when you allow an S daily -- sometimes. It doesn't have to be everyday.

Sinnie · Post by **Sinnie** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:55 pm

Thanks so much ladies.

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:36 pm

wosnes, how strict are you about the "one S" rule?

clarinetgal · Post by **clarinetgal** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:22 pm

I'm curious, too. Also, I'm figuring out for myself, that if I'm going to do a daily S, then I'll have to rein in my eating on the weekends (weekends tend to be wild) and only allow unrestricted eating on my birthday and major holidays. Don't you do that, wosnes?

wosnes · Post by **wosnes** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:41 pm

Imogen Morley wrote:wosnes, how strict are you about the "one S" rule?

My S's are usually sweets that I'll have at the end of a meal. If I have cookies in the house, I'll have a serving daily until they're gone. I don't necessarily make or buy more immediately when they're gone. Occasionally I'll make another dessert (cobbler, bread pudding etc.) and again -- a serving a day until it's gone. If I eat at a restaurant, I may or may not have a dessert -- it depends on what's available. If I'm at someone's home and they offer dessert, I'll always have some.

I'm strict about only one S daily, but I'm not strict about having an S daily. Does that make sense?

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:28 am

wosnes wrote:
I'm strict about only one S daily, but I'm not strict about having an S daily. Does that make sense?

Absolutely. I was curious about strictness, because I'm afraid I'll binge if I break "one S daily" rule - hello, what-the-hell-effect! But taking one day at a time sounds doable. "I won't have it now, but I can have it tomorrow, if I still really want it" sounds less harsh to my ears than "I won't have it now or for the next five days".

clarinetgal · Post by **clarinetgal** » Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:03 am

Yes, that makes perfect sense. I want to be the same way, where I have one serving of a sweet daily (if it's in the house), but I don't have to have sweets every day.

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:20 pm

So I've binged today... precisely what-the-hell-effect kicking in

I had two cookies instead of just one, I've already blown it, so I might as well enjoy myself. It's more about fixing guilt/distracting myself from negative feelings by doing something pleasurable (eating, which has been my auto-pilot stress response for as long as I remember) than "enjoying myself". Trying something equally distracting, but not nearly as destructive - off to watch some Doctor Who episodes...

wosnes · Post by **wosnes** » Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:59 pm

I've found that keeping myself busy with anything (has to engage my mind to some extent) is the best way not to eat mindlessly.

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:04 pm

How's everyone? I hope you're doing well.
Quick update on my part: it's working. Not always, not like a charm, but it IS progress. I don't always stick to "one daily S" limit, but it's a clear guideline. Most days I don't even take advantage of my freedom and skip sweets altogether. Also, having treats after meals, not as snacks, helps to curb cravings.

Sinnie · Post by **Sinnie** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:25 am

I've been doing really badly. My binges are getting more severe. At the highest weight I've been in at least over a year.

emmay · Post by **emmay** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:42 am

I've been reading this thread with interest because the mod sounds appealing. It would be great to eliminate S day overeating and have the option of a daily treat.
The problem I can see is that, for me, having only one sweet would take as much discipline and control as having none. Maybe even more discipline, as you have to stop after having started. And you are trying to exert this discipline every day, without the S day breaks.
Woud it be too indulgent to allow a small sweet with a meal on N days and still have S days? Perhaps the allowance of a sweet on N days would help tame S days without eliminating them. I allow myself fresh fruit as desert on N days and it is going fine so far.
I am thinking of applying something similar for an upcoming vacation where I will be staying with family. For N days, I will stick to three meals, no seconds or snacks but I will accept sweets if they are offered with a meal, e.g. pancakes for breakfast or desert after dinner.

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:00 am

Sinnie, I'm sorry to hear that

Maybe you're trying to make up for previous deprivation? Or is that emotional overeating? Do you feel anxious about "one S daily" limit?

wosnes · Post by **wosnes** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:41 pm

emmay wrote: I am thinking of applying something similar for an upcoming vacation where I will be staying with family. For N days, I will stick to three meals, no seconds or snacks but I will accept sweets if they are offered with a meal, e.g. pancakes for breakfast or desert after dinner.

That sounds great.

Sinnie, I'm sorry you're having a hard time.

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:32 pm

Hello, hello? Anyone still doing it?
Man, this really is hard! December is a killer (four birthdays in the family, plus Christmas and New Year's Eve party!), sweets everywhere, totally fell off the wagon. My nemesis has been - are you surprised? - the refusal to set a hard limit of daily treats, just "sane eating". Damn, damn! When will I learn that once I open a package, it's a goner before the day's over? And I don't even seem to be having any big psychological needs right now, any holes in my soul to be filled with Magnum bars and apple pies... *sigh* I just can't stand having leftovers, heh.
Starting over, then. I'm very, very positive about this mod - if done right, it works better than vanilla, at least for me.

wosnes · Post by **wosnes** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:53 pm

Sorry to hear that you're having a rough time.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:41 am

May I gently ask how this mod works better for you than Vanilla?

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:19 am

oolala53 wrote:May I gently ask how this mod works better for you than Vanilla?

S days=binge days. I can't get rid of that pesky diet mentality which forces me to devour everything in sight "because I have to stop eating sweets for the next 5 days!". Prohibition fuels my desire, so to speak. I do better when I have a little wiggle room - I know I can have one small treat every day, but then I don't have that gnawing need to exercise (or abuse) this privilege. Calorie-wise, on vanilla No S I consume 2000 kcal worth of sugar alone on a typical weekend (plus regular meals, which tend to be heavier on weekends). Employing wosnes's mod, my average sugar calories count is 800 a week. Sugar just loses its appeal when I can have it every day.

clarinetgal · Post by **clarinetgal** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:11 pm

I'm still here. I totally fell off of the wagon from Thanksgiving up until about a week ago. I finally had to get strict with myself about not eating at night after the kids go to bed, and that does seem to be helping, at least somewhat. I will keep trying. I'm thinking about doing Vanilla in January, but for now, at least, I will keep working on the mod.

Sinnie · Post by **Sinnie** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:53 pm

I am still around, re-starting with a complete hiatus from sugar. Not sure how long I'll do this, but I'm at a point where I feel saying NO right now, to any added sugar, is what I need. It's been surprisingly easy for two days. When I feel like binging, one does not ever equal done. So, just not starting any is helping immensely.

I think once i'm at a point where i no longer feel addicted, I'll possibly re-introduce. Otherwise, my plan is just to only have it when it's appropriate (social, holidays, something very special). I'm not having any cravings right now. Yesterday the thought crossed me to get a donut, but I said no and forgot about it.

Tonight I've got a Christmas party. I'll let you know how that goes...

Sinnie · Post by **Sinnie** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:58 pm

Update: It went pretty well. Ate a small lunch and dinner. Overate at the party somewhat (it was all appetizers so hard to gage at the time how much I was eating until I was FULL) and then a small slice of pie and tiny brownie. I suppose I didn't eat more because no one else was really eating any dessert except a modest piece our of politeness. I could have easily not taken any. Interesting lesson: The girls there were very skinny - ate plenty at dinner, but clearly no one felt the need to go crazy on sugar. They were full. A distinct difference from those overweight or dieters.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 3:11 pm

It sounds like you had a nice time. Good! As you saw, not everyone didn't eat more dessert out of politeness. They'd just had enough. Thin people don't like being too full, except maybe once in a great while. I know it's said that they do monitor their food, but I don't believe they are plagued for hours each day with a desire for more food. Their appetite tends to match what's needed for their size, the lucky ducks. But No S gets us close to that, after long enough.

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:57 pm

I've been doing well and not so well at the same time... I tend to go over my self-imposed limit of one sweet, mainly because of environmental factors, I believe (different kinds of treats in the house, and variety=overeating), but then, I don't binge, which I consider successful. Trying really hard to stick to my allowance. Also, I made it a rule to have my sweet after dinner if I do choose to eat something sugary - not on empty stomach and most decidedly not in the morning.
I've had some success today - I had a really bad hankering for another piece of fudge, but managed to stifle it by using some techniques described in "The Willpower Instinct", namely recognizing and accepting the craving, and breathing as slowly as possible.

oolala53 · Post by **oolala53** » Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:17 pm

Most of us are stimulated to eat more with the taste of sweet. But it can become a habit to eat only a small amount.

Ten years ago, I think to Parisian women at least it wouldn't occur to eat a bar of chocolate. My understanding is that they have as quare with an espresso after a meal. I think your after dinner plan is a good compromise on No S, if you really don't want to go the week without it or allow for much more on S days. It's certainly worth a few more weeks or months of experimenting.

Imogen Morley · Post by **Imogen Morley** » Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:17 pm

oolala53, I'm really starting to think that your signature about vanilla No S is VERY true...
I've had an interesting discussion about eating habits with my skinny sister-in-law. She's No S-friendly, and I believe it's her natural eating pattern (but she doesn't have such a massive sweet tooth). I was complaining to her that I was suffering from terrible cravings while doing this mod. She pointed out that on vanilla No S I didn't seem to be plagued with cravings as much as now. She also said that I had to use more and more willpower to control myself, which, I admit, is exhausting. In her words, I simply was happier and calmer doing vanilla... just not on S days, heh.
Although I have absolutely no desire to look like her (nor the necessary genetic makeup), it made me think.

clarinetgal · Post by **clarinetgal** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:03 am

I'm still here. I plan to drastically cut back on sweets after the holiday -- if not sooner! Thankfully, I've had kind of a 'blessing' over the past couple of days. I have a bad cold right now, and my sense of smell and taste are greatly diminished. I've decided if I can't really taste the sweets, what's the point of eating them?