Dear No S'ers, what would you do? advice needed please

No Snacks, no sweets, no seconds. Except on Days that start with S. Too simple for you? Simple is why it works. Look here for questions, introductions, support, success stories.

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Skelton
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Dear No S'ers, what would you do? advice needed please

Post by Skelton » Sun Sep 01, 2013 10:04 am

Got a situation going on with my doctor but I need to give some background first.

I'm 15st 4lb - that's 215 pounds. 5'3" female with a very small frame. I "should" weigh around 120 pounds, although my own goal is closer to 140 pounds. I'm 51 years old, in perimenopause.

I've been No S'ing on and off for about a year. I have a history of compulsive/binge eating, which is invariably triggered by conventional dieting. When I stick to No S and get rid of diet thoughts, I do well in that I don't binge. However, it seems that every few weeks I panic about how overweight I am, and especially worry because of my age, and those diet thoughts creep back in and I decide to go on a diet. This leads to a diet/binge cycle end result is a couple of pounds heavier than when I started and I come back to No S. Then the cycle starts again.
I've recorded my weight over the last year and have pretty much maintained for the last 12 months.

Now to the point. My GP is very concerned about my weight, my blood pressure is high, I have knee problems caused by obesity, and although I don't have diabetes according to recent bloodwork, I'm probably pre-diabetic. My doctor wants me to reduce my weight by about 10 pounds in the next two months, otherwise I will need to go on blood pressure medication. Also my knee problem is really restricting my mobility, some days I can hardly walk, so I've had very little exercise this past few months.

I don't think I can lose that much weight in two months on No S. But I clearly do need to lose weight.

I'm feeling very stuck and scared.

Does anyone have any thoughts, advice, ideas about this?

Sorry it's such a long post! :oops:
"We stop looking for the better diet and start looking for a better life." pangelsue

Skelton
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Post by Skelton » Sun Sep 01, 2013 10:30 am

I've just read my post and I'm not sure I was even clear about what my dilemma is!

I don't want to give up on No S. It's the only sane way of eating that I've found, after 35 years of diet/binge and trying every eating plan/fad diet out there.
But I do need to lose some weight, quicker than No S is likely to allow.
"We stop looking for the better diet and start looking for a better life." pangelsue

clarebear
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Post by clarebear » Sun Sep 01, 2013 10:48 am

Hello :)

I would honestly just stick to no s. from what you've said if you go on a diet to Try and lose those 10 lbs you are likely to go back into your binge cycle.

You may not lose the 10lbs in the time the doctor wants but even if it means you going on medication for a little while that has got
To be better than going backwards again? At least you will be making peace with food and getting better habits and you know the weight will come off in time, way past the 10lb mark :) and you can say goodbye to the medication!

However, I believe if you stick to no s vanilla and include some walking you can lose those 10lbs

Good luck :)
Finally found a lifestyle change, not a diet!
Starting weight 167 lbs
Goal is to lose 20lbs in time for my wedding!

wosnes
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Post by wosnes » Sun Sep 01, 2013 11:26 am

Stick with No-S and look at the composition of meals. Don't eliminate anything, but concentrate more or less calorie dense vegetables and fruits and less on more calorie dense foods. I don't know how you are with S days, but don't go wild. Allow yourself a treat, but don't allow yourself two days of eating whatever you want whenever you want it.

You might want to consider something like automatedeating wrote about.

It wasn't until I went back to read that post that I realized I've been doing something like that for a long time. While I'm not suggesting that you do what I do (or what anyone else does) this is my general plan:

Breakfast (if I eat breakfast): toast, fruit, maybe an egg OR oatmeal and fruit
Lunch: soup, bread, fruit
Dinner: whatever I decide to make

I follow this plan pretty much every day, including S days. My "S" of choice is sweets and I try to have them after a meal. The only change I plan to make to this is to have my bigger meal at midday, since I feel better when I have a smaller meal in the evening.

I think this works because I don't have to decide what to have for two of my meals, I know what they will be. Also, I make my own soup and a pot will last me at least several meals, so variety is somewhat limited.

EDIT: I meant to add, when you're tempted to resort to traditional dieting, remember that it hasn't worked for you and has gotten you to where you are now.

Something that may help lower your blood pressure without resorting to medication is avoiding processed/manufactured foods. That was suggested to me by my cardiologist and it's worked well for me. I think it also helped with other markers as well.
"That which we persist in doing becomes easier for us to do. Not that the nature of the thing itself has changed but our power to do it is increased." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

"You are what you eat -- so don't be Fast, Easy, Cheap or Fake."

jw
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Post by jw » Sun Sep 01, 2013 3:38 pm

I second wosnes' recommendations: fill up your plates No S style, but look at what you fill them with. Half a plate full of non-starchy veg, plus some protein, plus a little starch (bread OR potato, not both, for example), mostly unprocessed, works for me and may get things moving for you without triggering diet-head.

Whatever you do, don't panic and drop out of No S -- it's never too late to start and it will work for you in your body's own good time. And for heaven's sake, don't postpone it -- in ten years you'll be my age and even after losing my first ten pounds, I weigh more than you do now!

Good luck and keep posting. The collective wisdom on this board is an amazing support.

PS I am grateful for my doc, who set me a very reasonable goal of 6 pounds in six months. I am sure your doc will support any reasonable weight loss plan, even if you don't manage the full ten pounds on schedule.
"The second you overcomplicate it is the second it becomes the thing for which it is a corrective." -- El Fug

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BrightAngel
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Re: Dear No S'ers, what would you do? advice needed please

Post by BrightAngel » Sun Sep 01, 2013 4:02 pm

Skelton wrote:Got a situation going on with my doctor
My doctor wants me to reduce my weight by about 10 pounds in the next two months,
otherwise I will need to go on blood pressure medication.

Also my knee problem is really restricting my mobility,
some days I can hardly walk, so I've had very little exercise this past few months.

I don't think I can lose that much weight in two months on No S.
But I clearly do need to lose weight.

I'm feeling very stuck and scared.

Does anyone have any thoughts, advice, ideas about this?
So, unless you are on death's door,
If you've been maintaining your weight during the past year with No S,
and it has been successful for you, you might want to continue on,
with a focus on modifications to help avoid bingeing.

Next... You might not hear this point of view anywhere else, BUT ....

Your doctor is merely a professional who you've hired.
His advice is based on his own personal opinion.
You can take it or leave it.
Ultimately how you choose to eat and what medicine you choose to take,
is YOUR own choice.

Most doctors aren't very knowlegable about obesity problems,
especially when binge eating is involved,
however the majority of the medical profession does seem to agree..
that weight taken off quickly almost always returns with additional weight,
which is far worse for one's health than no weight-loss.

Don't let your doctor's authoritarian threats scare you.
Fear might motivate you for a tiny bit,
but ultimately, paying attention to Threats like that will probably lead to increased bingeing.

You get to choose your own time limits, and your own behaviors ...
including how, when, what and how-much you eat, and when and if you start any type of medication.

Remember, all Doctors don't agree about all medical details.
Unfortunately, a great many of them suffer from society's Fat-Bias.
This frequently results in 'lose-weight" recommendations
that are inappropriate to treat an obese person's Health issues.
Doctors are replaceable, and there are lots of them out there.
If your doctor is unsupportive, you can change to one who is.

I'm now in my late 60s at normal weight, but I'm only 5 foot tall,
and I spent the majority of my life over 200 lbs due to problems with binge eating.
Despite my weight, I've had good health for all my life,
but throughout my life, I've been the victim of Fat-Bias from several different doctors.

When I was a young adult, about 21 in excellent health although weighing over 200 lbs shortly after childbirth,
a doctor I saw to get an antibiotic for tonsillitis,
told me that unless I immediately lost weight, I would not live to see age 30.

The sad thing is... this was Not even an unusual event.
.. even though I spent a lifetime in good health (although obese)
....almost every doctors visit ...
whether for a cut finger, a bladder infection, or other bacterial infection,
resulted in the doctor warning me of future ill-health if I didn't immediately lose weight.

None of those dire medical predections came true.
Thery were based on Fat-Bias, plain and simple.
You might want to google "Health At Every Size" and read up about that issue.
BrightAngel - (Dr. Collins)
See: DietHobby. com

Skelton
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Post by Skelton » Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:37 pm

Thanks so much everyone.

You can probably all guess that I've now spiralled back into binge mode. Even the thought of dieting seems to do that to me nowadays, I don't even need to start the actual food restriction, just contemplating it is enough.

I'm sticking with No S. I will likely alter the proportions of my meals, carbs are my kryptonite so I probably need to cut back on them a bit.

I'll write more in a few days when I've had the chance to get back on track and can report some positive changes.

I so appreciate the support of these boards. So often I feel like a completely hopeless case, but I come here and always feel supported.
So thank you all.
"We stop looking for the better diet and start looking for a better life." pangelsue

oolala53
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Post by oolala53 » Thu Sep 05, 2013 1:13 am

Yeh, stay off the diets. But I gently suggest you start allowing yourself to believe that you probably could shave a small amount off the serving of dense food at one meal a day. Then notice your satiety and how long before you get legitimately hungry. (Are you getting hungry for your meals now?) Try to do it with calm curiosity.

See if there is anything about S days that you could modify without feeling you're putting yourself in prison. For the longest time, I thought I couldn't change anything, but I finally got tired of feeling too full so much of the time. I modified by deciding that I would not eat sweets alone on S days. I found it easier than I thought. (I"m alone a lot of the time, so the sweets really got cut down, and it wasn't hard.) That led to a lot less snacking and seconding even without much effort, since I preferred being hungry for meals except for those dang sweets. I've lost more weight over the past year since doing that and in the last months, starches have been dropping on some days. Let it evolve.
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 9 years & counting
Age 65
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
Mar/18 22.2

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.

Kittykat150
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Post by Kittykat150 » Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:59 pm

Skeleton,
Slowing down and breathing can help with the binge urge. When you have that plate in front of you, really look at, smell, enjoy the food. Slowly.....there is no rush. Bingeing, in my experience, is rushed and mindless. Stop yourself if the frantic feeling is there and just sit with it and breathe through it. Then eat. You deserve to enjoy food without the self-punishment that often comes after rushing, overeating and feeling ashamed and uncomfortable. I wish you well.
Peace,
Kat
"Never give up, for that is just the place and time that the tide will turn." -Harriet Beecher Stowe

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Lily x
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Post by Lily x » Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:07 am

Hi Skelton

Oh, I am so familiar with what you're saying here!

Diets don't work. If they did, all the famous diet companies wouldn't exist. People would lose the weight and keep it off and there wouldn't be enough people walking through the doors of a local club for it to be viable. Yet we get sucked in, time and time again. We're so susceptible to the tantalizing thought of being 3 stones (42 pounds) lighter by Christmas just by following a restrictive plan. But there's the problem. As human beings, we can only deal with restriction for so long. Sooner or later, we break free, we eat the things disallowed by the plan and feel like we've failed.

Whoa - we're failures for breaking free from something hopelessly restrictive? Failures for listening to our bodies screaming for more food? The 500-1000 per day deficit imposed by most commercial diets is too extreme. Yes, it produces fast weight loss but our bodies hate that rate of loss! One part of our brain is congratulating us for our phenomenal willpower but another part of our brain - the part that's listening to the physiological cries of panic - is already trying to figure out how to make us eat more. And that part usually wins!

I read recently that the body doesn't notice a daily deficit of around 250 calories a day beneath what you require to maintain your weight. In other words, a deficit sufficient to lose around half a pound a week. Now, that sounds slow to we hardened dieters, but that's 26 pounds a year - nearly 2 stones. And those pounds will stay off, unlike the pounds you lose on a quick fix commercial diet. Slow and steady wins the race. Doing No S will help you win the race.

If putting extra veg on your plate screams "I'm on a diet!" in your head, don't do it. Sooner or later, you're actually quite likely to fancy some veg, if you allow your body and brain to trust that you aren't about to put it on yet another crazy diet, if you allow your body to tell you what it wants instead of some externally imposed eating plan.

Your fitness problems are more likely caused by the endless diet-binge cycle rather than the weight itself. If you think about the stress you've put your poor body through over the years, it isn't surprising some damage has been done. If you don't believe me, read a book called "Health at every size" by Linda Bacon...

Don't fall for another quick fix diet. It won't work. Allow yourself to believe that it's ok to stick to No S forever, that this isn't just a stopgap measure until the next diet. Because when you do, the bingeing will gradually disappear, your stress levels will drop, your blood pressure will fall and slowly, so will your weight.

janders71
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Post by janders71 » Wed Oct 02, 2013 3:56 pm

Skelton,
I was also told to lose weight by a doctor...when, at 5'7'', I weighed 141 lbs. I'm much heavier now and the older, wiser me wants to go back and laugh in that doctor's face. Instead I let his opinion start a diet/binge cycle that has lasted 13 years. Now that I've found No S, I'm committed to staying the course, even if it's slow going. Every time I lost 25 lbs on diets, I gained 30 back. Enough! Let's find doctors who can support moderation.

If knee pain prevents you from walking, how about cycling?

Good luck!

oolala53
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Post by oolala53 » Wed Oct 02, 2013 4:45 pm

How are things going, Skelton? Has your eating calmed down?
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 9 years & counting
Age 65
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
Mar/18 22.2

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.

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harpista
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Post by harpista » Thu Oct 17, 2013 2:48 pm

It may be that you won't see this, however I just wanted to tell you I understand where you're coming from. My first diet was at the age of 8 (and it was because of a doctor!), and I have had problems with binge eating ever since. Diets make me want to eat ALL THE THINGS, NOW!

Rather than harshly cutting your carbs (this makes me hungry and angry and in the mood for an entire bag of Oreos, your mileage may vary); what MIGHT work for you, in conjunction with No S, is to use a diabetic-style carb limit. This way you don't have spikes and valleys in your blood sugar, something that definitely can cue a binge in my experience. If you want to talk about that I am willing to tell you my experience with gestational diabetes.

In any case... I heartily second the advice to cordially ignore your doctor's crash dieting recommendation. Continue doing what works for you. As another poster said, if you take some meds for a while and then can stop because of your continued moderation success, that's still GREAT.

I hope you are doing well and that the waves have calmed a bit.
Nulla palma sine pulvere.
'No garland of victory without first the dust of the arena.'

Sometimesians, unite!

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~reneew
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Post by ~reneew » Thu Oct 17, 2013 3:36 pm

I think you should stick with noS but if you are unhappy with the progress, tweak a bit but for gosh sakes don't start to annayize what you eat, that's the beauty of nos, not doing that! Maybe try smaller plates, even an inch smaller at every meal could bring the results that you want over time.

I highly recommend Leslie Sansone walk DVDs! It's low key "walk"ing in your home and you can make it as mild/tough as you wish, AND, if you get tired or sore, you aren't half a mile from home. :wink:
I guess this doesn't work unless you actually do it.
Please pray for me

Skelton
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Post by Skelton » Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:56 pm

reneew, thanks for the PM. I got a notification in my email and so it's prompted me to come back to the thread. I'm grateful for that.

Ok well to update.
I actually went on BP medication and have had some x rays on my knee. Waiting for the results of that, but this past few days I've managed to be more active as my knee pain has inexplicably improved vastly! So I'm making the most of it and getting in some gentle walking and stretching exercises.

Since I posted originally, I can't believe it's 6 weeks ago, my food has been all over the place. Not at all sure what to do next, although as I said, I don't want to give up on No S. The problem has been that even on the days when I've told myself I'm committed to No S, I have been overeating and definitely not No S'ing. Weight has shifted up a couple of pounds.

I will listen to any advice. Any tips. Any suggestions.

Harpista, I would definitely consider something similar to your suggestion regarding carbs. And yes I'd like to hear more about your experience with gestational diabetes. If you prefer to PM me, that's fine, or here on the thread is good too.

Thanks to each of you for replying. I'm gradually pulling myself up from complete overwhelm and am ready to take some action. Just no idea what that action will be! :D
"We stop looking for the better diet and start looking for a better life." pangelsue

Skelton
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Post by Skelton » Fri Oct 18, 2013 10:01 am

Ok, I'm back to No S.

I have to find a way from getting those diety thoughts out of my head when they pop up. Obviously being 'told' to lose weight doesn't help with that. I know I need to lose weight, and I WANT to lose weight, but I know that conventional diets, for me, are a precursor to setting me up for binge eating. I knew this when I first started No S back in August 2012.

Anyway, I'm back. Thanks everyone for your support and suggestions here. I'll incorporate some changes to my meals slowly, and probably journal to help me keep awareness of the results of those changes.
"We stop looking for the better diet and start looking for a better life." pangelsue

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harpista
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Post by harpista » Sat Oct 19, 2013 11:36 pm

The general principles by which my gestational diabetes diet was governed:

- No more than 30 g of carbs at once (that's two slices of bread's worth), 15-30g at snacks (remember, these were PRESCRIBED snacks- I was on insulin!).

- Wait at least two hours between incidences of carbs.

- You were supposed to eat with the frequency they prescribed and no sooner or later (about every two hours). Deviation was not approved: no skipping, no waiting extra long, no cutting to the next meal or snack in less time...

- I was told to eat a lot more produce than I have been used to, adding protein, fat or veg if I was hungry. Fruit was counted in the plan due to sugars. I got 2-3 fruit servings per day at two snacks between meals and with dinner, but these were SURPRISINGLY small (15g carb). One I remember, for example: 15 cherries.

The idea behind the diet I was on was to regulate blood sugar levels. The major plus I wasn't expecting was that keeping those levels relatively stable eliminated most of my urges to binge, and many (but not all) of my killer pregnancy cravings were eliminated. I could tell when I had failed to comply well, when I got the urge to snack off plan, eat candy or wanted to eat a Costco box of twenty-ish danishes.

I think this would translate to No-S, but PLEASE PROCEED CAUTIOUSLY and for the love of all that's holy, try Vanilla first. Here is how I would apply diabetic diet principles to No S, however.

- Keep your carbs at a meal at 30g, to avoid the sugar roller coaster (blood sugar spike and subsequent drop).

- Choose more protein, FAT (yes FAT especially with carbs, as it slows the insulin response), and vegetables.

- Choose small portions of fruit, avoiding juice and fruit first thing in the morning.

- Avoid low fat dairy, and using much dairy first thing in the morning (cream in coffee, or a reasonable amount of milk on non-daily cereal nonwithstanding).

I feel almost as if I shouldn't have outlined this here.
Nulla palma sine pulvere.
'No garland of victory without first the dust of the arena.'

Sometimesians, unite!

oolala53
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Post by oolala53 » Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:08 am

Please do not underestimate the value of writing a list of reasons you would like to learn to eat moderately. Spread them out over different categories. It's okay to have some vanity reasons but if you look at the stats, those end up not actually being very successful at helping people accept eating less over time. Pride, health, and just plain feeling better win out a lot more often. Peace with food and yourself is a gem, too.

Then read the list several times a day for a few weeks, at least, and once a day for awhile more. I keep mine on my laptop desktop and still look at it sometimes, nearly 4 years later.

And a good mantra: it's worth it. Have faith on that one. I couldn't say that about any diet.
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 9 years & counting
Age 65
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
Mar/18 22.2

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.

leafy_greens
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Re: Dear No S'ers, what would you do? advice needed please

Post by leafy_greens » Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:54 pm

Skelton wrote:Got a situation going on with my doctor but I need to give some background first.

I'm 15st 4lb - that's 215 pounds. 5'3" female with a very small frame. I "should" weigh around 120 pounds, although my own goal is closer to 140 pounds. I'm 51 years old, in perimenopause.

I've been No S'ing on and off for about a year. I have a history of compulsive/binge eating, which is invariably triggered by conventional dieting. When I stick to No S and get rid of diet thoughts, I do well in that I don't binge. However, it seems that every few weeks I panic about how overweight I am, and especially worry because of my age, and those diet thoughts creep back in and I decide to go on a diet. This leads to a diet/binge cycle end result is a couple of pounds heavier than when I started and I come back to No S. Then the cycle starts again.
I've recorded my weight over the last year and have pretty much maintained for the last 12 months.

Now to the point. My GP is very concerned about my weight, my blood pressure is high, I have knee problems caused by obesity, and although I don't have diabetes according to recent bloodwork, I'm probably pre-diabetic. My doctor wants me to reduce my weight by about 10 pounds in the next two months, otherwise I will need to go on blood pressure medication. Also my knee problem is really restricting my mobility, some days I can hardly walk, so I've had very little exercise this past few months.

I don't think I can lose that much weight in two months on No S. But I clearly do need to lose weight.

I'm feeling very stuck and scared.

Does anyone have any thoughts, advice, ideas about this?

Sorry it's such a long post! :oops:
The good thing about No S is that it leaves no room for emotional eating. You don't have to think about why you are eating if you stick to one plate, three times a day. "Do I think I'm fat, do I feel guilty, do I have childhood issues?" These don't have anything to do with your three plates of food a day. It can be uncomfortable to confront, but you must separate the emotion from the three plates of food. Eat your three plates, and then work on the emotional issues another way.
"No S IS hard... It just turns out that everything else is harder." -oolala53

herbsgirl
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Post by herbsgirl » Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:20 pm

I found out that I had to have mods to make no s work for me. As in mods, I needed something to help me control my portions but not something th at would take as much effort as calorie counting or points. I also needed to allow myself to eat anything, so I dont feel deprived. And that is counting my bites. Did you know overiweght people take in over 150 bites per day usually?

And I am one of those poeple that need to lose weight for medical health reasons. (going towards diabetes, mental health, pcos)


See my blog here I combine no s with bite counting. Its easy and it works! Much easier than points or calories! I allow myself more bites for my one S day which is Sunday and I allow myself unlimited bites a few times a year.

http://countyourbites.blogspot.com/

Also eating slowly has helped me Tremendously I use the Eating Slower Pro App, there is also a free one availabe for iphone or android, and I try to eat an average of one minute betweeen bites. It really helps one stay satisfied with less food.

Just starting with One minute per bite at meals with NO S would be a good place to start!

http://www.oneminutebite.com/
SW 218.2 10-14-13
1 mo 193.4
2 mo 178.8
3 mo 162.8
4 mo 151.4
5 mo 146.2
72 lbs lost in 19 wks 5' 6.5" 31 years old BMI 23.1
counting bites go to: countyourbites . blogspot . com

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