The Blessings of Simplicity

Counting carbs/calories is a drag. Obsessive scale stepping is a recipe for despair. If you want to count something, "days on habit" is a much better metric. Checking off days on a calendar would do just fine, but if you do it here you get accountability and support. Here's how. Start a new topic in this forum called (say) "Your Name Daily Check In." Then every N day post a "reply" to that topic as to whether you stayed on habit. A simple "<font color="green">SUCCESS</font>" or "<font color="red">FAILURE</font>" (or your preferred euphemism if that's too harsh) is sufficient, but obviously you're welcome to write more if you want. On S-days just register that you're taking an S-day. You don't have to do this forever, just until you're confident you've built the habit. Feel free to check in weekly or monthly or sporadically instead of daily. Feel free also to track other habits besides No-s (I'm keeping this forum under No-s because that's what the vast majority are using it for). See also my <a href="/habitcal/">HabitCal</a> tool for another more formal (and perhaps complementary) way to track habits.

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lpearlmom
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by lpearlmom » Sat Oct 03, 2020 5:49 am

Doing okay?
:twisted: SW: 210 lbs
CW: 161.4 lbs.
GW:155 lbs



do you know when the greatest moments in life are? right now. 🧚🏻








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Kathleen
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Kathleen » Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:43 pm

Thanks for asking, Linda. I took a pause because of everything that was happening. Tom had a medical scare that turned out to be a scare, but he had some treatment that put him at high enough risk for COVID that I sent him packing to the house he and his siblings now own after his mother's death. He's be home the first weekend in December. College is an oppressive environment. Both of our college kids are home and enjoying the freedom to walk out the front door without a mask on. I ended up doing all the raking which was a big task.

And my weight? It was 220.0 yesterday. The fasting was a temporary fix. I came on the board this morning because I have yet another idea for weight loss. Years ago, I read that one way to be successful at something where you are failing is to use what you learn where you are being successful.

Well, we are successful with finances. We are in the lucky group of people whose income has stayed the same while expenses have dropped. Lower gas bills. Almost non existent dry cleaning. Food out for Tom at work is zero.

We are saving a lot right now and were also saving pre-pandemic. We are frugal, almost absurdly so. We were laughing the other day looking at pictures from ten years ago in which Tom is wearing the same shirt he often wears today. We drive our cars until we donate them, although we traded in the Sienna for $700 when Tommy got a job.

And yet, yesterday, after reading an article about a Chinese game called Mahjong, I went on Amazon and decided to buy a game which costs $96. I debated about it a few days but yesterday morning made the order.

I never could stomach a budget. It just made no sense to me. How are you supposed to estimate the cost of gas? A few years ago, I told Tom that I wanted to track our expenses as exactly as possible so that we could create a budget. I tried then having the budget amount next to the actual amount with variance. It just seemed like so much work when you can look at what you spend and adjust. In fact, when I first started tracking expenses, I showed Tom that we had spent $400 in food out in one month. He got upset about that. I then had each of us use a different card. After separating his expenditures from mine, I showed him that he was spending about $375 per month and I was spending about $25 per month. He adjusted accordingly.

Now I have a system down that is so easy it takes only a few hours per month. For example, we use one credit card for gas, so all I need do to track gas expenditures is write down the total for that card. This system really helps with planning for retirement because we have such a good handle on expenses. I also have separated out the kids' expenses into one category per kid so we can see how little we spend on our children who are out of college.

Yesterday, when buying that Mahjong game, it dawned on me that I have been attempting the dietary equivalent of keeping a budget. I have tried all sorts of ways to naturally restrict what I eat: fasting, following habits for how I eat, following NoS... Sooner or later, they have all failed.

I realized that, with tracking expenditures, the desire for those marginal purchases just evaporated. I came to realize what was important for me in spending, and Tom just adjusted his spending. We feel no economic pressure even though he thinks he may be part of a layoff next year. We are preparing for that.

What is the dietary equivalent of tracking expenditures? It is just writing down what I eat. I have tried this in the past but made it too complicated. I have tried to track time or whether I felt hunger or satisfaction after eating or how many calories. No. I need something simple, like the simple tracking method I have for expenditures. Simplicity is KEY because it is sustainable. I have long known that. That is why the title of my journal here is "The Blessings of SImplicity".

For tracking what I eat, I created a one page format to fit in my planner. It has seven days in rows to fit the entire length of the page and then three columns per day to fit the width of the page. The columns represent morning, afternoon and evening. I am definitely one to eat unconsciously and now have to remember if I snarf down some of the Oreos that I don't even like that the kids bought. An Oreo is definitely the equivalent of a marginal purchase.

With expenditures, we have a monthly savings goal. If I make that, then I can spend what I want or save for an unexpected expenditure or a desired expenditure in the future. With food tracking, I am going to aim for losing one pound per week. The mindset is now changed from "How much food can I eat?" if I follow this or that rule (don't eat until a certain time per day, no sweets during the week, etc.) to "Is this food what I really want?" Here's the big draw for this approach: I can eat what I want just like I can spend what I want. It's an illusion, of course. I can't spend what I want, but I sure feel like I can. That is the feeling I want to have with eating. I want to know I can have that coffee ice cream if I really want it now. It's a wonderful feeling to be confident in your finances. I want that same feeling to be confident in my eating.

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lpearlmom
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by lpearlmom » Thu Nov 26, 2020 2:19 pm

Hi Kathleen! Great to hear from you & glad you’re hanging in there. I really admire how much restraint you have with money. Doc & I are much better these days but we do love to splurge now and then. Have you heard of healthy wager? I’ve been looking at it for some extra motivation and it occurred to me that’d it’d be especially good for people who really hate wasting money. https://www.thepennyhoarder.com/make-mo ... althywage/

I’m thinking about joining after thanksgiving! 😊
:twisted: SW: 210 lbs
CW: 161.4 lbs.
GW:155 lbs



do you know when the greatest moments in life are? right now. 🧚🏻








Instagram "lpearlmom"

Kathleen
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Kathleen » Fri Nov 27, 2020 2:23 pm

Hi Linda,
TBH, we may have focused too much on financial well-being and not enough on physical well-being. We have four kids to launch. Anne is independent, Tommy is close (should get his own apartment in the next several months), Katie graduates in May, and Ellie has at least two more years of college. We are over the hump financially with only one more term of two in college.

Now what for us? Our focus is shifting to health. I think I would shy away from the bet website for two reasons: first, I don’t want an end date for my weight loss goal because I want an overhaul in how I live; and second, we have already focus too much in finances.

I was walking a lot and stopped mostly to rake leaves but now as of this week I am walking ten miles per week and setting up an in home exercise program. I was waiting for the pandemic to end. That was just plain dumb. I just woke up to the reality that it may be a long while before I can be back in the gym.

oolala53
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by oolala53 » Fri Aug 13, 2021 6:54 am

It would be a relief if gyms were open now because exercising in the heat probably doesn't sound like an option. I have a friend in Minneapolis and I know she is drained already this summer. Hope you are well.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 68
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (more flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

April
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by April » Sun Aug 15, 2021 12:31 pm

"one way to be successful at something where you are failing is to use what you learn where you are being successful."

WOW - this stopped me in my tracks! I realized I am very successful at my job and my "house-wife-ing" and being a mom because I am very CONSISTENT PLANNER.

BUT for some reason when it comes to weight loss attempts, I am a chronic over-thinker, plan-hopper, constantly tweaking and become OCD about my current "plan" and when it doesn't work immediately (impatient much?). I then feel like a failure before giving it a fair chance. This honestly has me stumped - how can I be so on point and successful in other areas but don't plan/act the same with this whole weight loss thing? I fully realized there would be a learning curve when I changed jobs/careers three years ago and was patient with myself in the beginning until I mastered the new skills. I know that being a mom and housewife is still (at 50) a constant learning and growing process although I build I what I already do and know, and I adapt and get better over time. I need to apply this to losing weight....major light bulb moment.

This one sentence has really given me a whole new perspective. I should reflect on what has worked and is do-able from past experiences and apply it before moving forward. I need to pick/make a plan and be consistent and resist the temptation to change things up until I give it some solid time, maybe at least three months without changing anything.

Thank you for sharing, Blessings!

I have not posted in a long while as I am almost embarrassed that my previous plans have all failed :oops: but at least I have not gained anything back but have not lost more either...
April

"Take the first step in faith. You don't have to see the whole staircase, just take the first step.”
- Martin Luther King, Jr.

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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by TeacherJ » Sun Aug 15, 2021 2:00 pm

"one way to be successful at something where you are failing is to use what you learn where you are being successful."

I like this!
5'2 female; 40-something years old

Started No S on 7/11/21
Starting size: 16/XL
Current size: 16/XL
Goal size: 10/M

Kathleen
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Kathleen » Sat Oct 09, 2021 3:11 pm

Sadly, I was wrong about that! I have followed an approach to habit building that was based on gradual change. That does not work with losing weight I finally concluded.

I went back to my Novena Diet, nine days of restricted eating followed by a period of adjustment. I am going to ratchet down my weight five pounds at a time.

Last September, I had a blood pressure reading of 144/100 and my doctor recommended blood pressure medication. Instead, I changed my diet with guidance from the book “Blood Pressure Down” and built a habit of walking. Last week, I returned for my annual physical and my blood pressure was 117/82. My weight had not budged.

On Tuesday, I started counting 1500 calories/day. I am having trouble sleeping because I am so hungry. My only goal for nine days is to keep under 1500 calories/day.

oolala53
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by oolala53 » Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:34 pm

Just wanted to be sure you had seen this news. Best of luck with Novena.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 68
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (more flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

Kathleen
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Kathleen » Tue Nov 23, 2021 8:02 pm

Yes. I just saw it. I spent a lot of time on this site trying to understand why I was fat. My Novena Diet failed again, but I had an interesting experience yesterday. You see, my husband backed into my car and needed his bumper replaced, and then I drove from that shop to get his car's oil changed. Ever since then, his car smelled. I finally, after six weeks, went back to the oil change place to ask the manager to see if there was a rag that was left in the car because it had to be either the oil change place or the collision shop that had caused the smell. The manager opened the side door and immediately looked under the passenger side seat to find a leaking can of stain. It never occurred to either of us that we had caused the problem! What a blind spot!

As I was driving home after that, it being Thanksgiving week, I heard about children facing hunger. It occurred me after I got home that hunger is portrayed as this terrible thing. Maybe this is a blind spot. Maybe hunger is a good thing. Maybe I should appreciate hunger and not be afraid of it.

The word used for hunger when I was growing up was appetite. If I tried to snack before dinner, my mother would caution me against spoiling my appetite. Today appetite is only used in the context of suppressing your appetite.

Maybe all we need to do is appreciate appetite. Not suppress it. Not spoil it.

Kathleen
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Kathleen » Sun Dec 12, 2021 3:31 pm

I have returned to the SET guidelines. They are:
S: Sit down to eat.
E: Eat without distraction.
T: Take a sip between bites and before and after eating.

This seems to limit my desire to eat without being a hard and fast restriction.

oolala53
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by oolala53 » Tue Dec 21, 2021 8:47 pm

Hunger is indeed a very good thing as long as we are willing to deal with the "fake need" for food that can follow even after eating. I had bad experiences with that early in my "diet" career, but I am so glad now that I kept at it. I had to get over some humps, and even now sometimes still have to negotiate, but I know I always have a decent meal coming up, and I also know it's a good thing to eat so that my body can tap into its fat stores. (Also accepting that most of the foods I overdid don't really qualify as food. They were nourishing nothing!)

Good luck with SET.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 68
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (more flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

Kathleen
Posts: 1659
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:46 pm
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Kathleen » Thu Dec 23, 2021 6:35 pm

Thank you, oolala53!

I seem to be doing well with this. I am eating what I want but just taking a sip between bites, and I got a copy of "The Weigh Down Diet" so I could read where I got that idea. I am just horrified reading it because it focuses on waiting for a stomach growl -- and that was my downfall. I was in a panic to get to that growl and then I binged.

It is so much easier just to have an approach that requires discipline but also offers flexibility. I also am not being militant about this. If I want to have a taste test at Costco, I can even if I cannot sit down and even if no water is available to sip.

I just want to add that I am at peace with this approach. I've given enough time and energy to weight loss that I will accept the weight that results from this approach.

Kathleen
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Kathleen » Sun Dec 26, 2021 11:55 pm

Reading the book is traumatizing for me. I have not yet gotten to the part where the author recommends taking a sip between bites, but she did say that behavior modification does not work. She might be right about that. Sitting down to eat and eating without distraction may be of limited to no use. What I am realizing is that taking a sip between bites somehow alters your eating. I do not understand this at all. What I realize is that the few times I have not taken a sip between bites when I have eating have led to stomach problems -- even what I would characterize as a stomach ache.

So now all I am doing is taking a sip between bites.

Kathleen
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Kathleen » Thu Dec 30, 2021 6:28 pm

It turns out that the author of the book, Gwen Shamblin, founded a church and managed to secure millions of dollars which were hidden in real estate trusts. She was described as a grifter but died in a plane accident in May, 2021. The plane was most likely flown by her husband who was not up to date on his licenses. I have had a very bad feeling about the author but had no idea that she was viewed as a cult leader.

At any rate, on page 52 of this 300+ page book, I finally encountered a sentence about taking sips between bites. Here it is: "Sip your drink between bites to wash the palate off so you can start over and savor the next bite."

Kathleen
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Kathleen » Mon Jan 03, 2022 1:47 pm

It is easier to take a sip between bites if I am also sitting down to eat and eating without distraction.

SET Guidelines:
S: Sit down to eat.
E: Eat without distraction.
T: Take a sip between bites and before and after eating.

oolala53
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by oolala53 » Sat Jan 22, 2022 5:36 am

They do tend to go together. What are the distractions you usually have? Is talking with someone else at the meal a distraction? Or is it only an issue when you eat alone? Do you have many meals alone? I live alone and often use distraction, but it doesn't usually get in the way of eating moderately. Moderation is just so important to me now. But maybe I should pick a few meals a week to unhook from the props and the attention solely on the eating be enough. I don't tend to eat fast anymore but I would probably slow down even more.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 68
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (more flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

Kathleen
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Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Kathleen » Wed Mar 23, 2022 1:47 am

Years and years ago, my son told me something like that I was looking for a magic bullet for weight loss. At this point, I agree.

I concluded that The Weigh Down Diet has one key bit of information in it which I would interpret as follows: I have a distorted sense of hunger and fullness.

What to do about it? Two days ago, at 215.0 pounds, I decided to start writing down what I eat and tracking my weight. That is it. Simple. No weighing food or counting calories. Just a simple recording of food eaten. I have a paper planner and now have in it one page per week with each page having seven rows for each day of the week and three columns for each day so I can record morning, afternoon and evening eating.

I find it easier to not eat when I assure myself that my sense of humor her is goofed up. I can still eat whatever I want but I won’t lose weight unless I eat less than what that internal hunger cue tells me to eat.

ladybird30
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by ladybird30 » Thu Mar 31, 2022 12:35 am

Hi Kathleen, I have found writing down my food very useful when I need to get back on track. I hope it helps you too.
Three meals a day - not too little not too much, but just right

Kathleen
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Kathleen » Sun Apr 03, 2022 11:22 pm

Hi ladybird30,

It is hard to be an unconscious eater if you write down what you eat. I concluded I need to wait for hunger every single time and has a conversation with my husband and about it. He said don’t snack. I said I will have three meals a day. Period.

Back to a key element of NoS: no snacks.

Today is Day 1. I don’t want another Day 1.

ladybird30
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by ladybird30 » Mon Apr 04, 2022 9:04 pm

Yes, I wait until hungry before eating. But I also believe that establishing the 3 meal habit needs to come first before the perfection of waiting until hungry every time.
Three meals a day - not too little not too much, but just right

Kathleen
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Location: Minnesota

Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Kathleen » Tue Apr 05, 2022 3:09 pm

I never get hungry -- and I mean never. I eat at mealtimes and when taking breaks in what I am doing. A few weeks ago, I decided that I have a distorted sense of hunger.

Two days ago, at 216.2, I decided to try to wait for a physical sign of hunger. I had two meals on Sunday (breakfast was bulletproof coffee) and three meals yesterday (breakfast was bulletproof coffee). Not to overstate it when I am but I now feel like I have been hit by a truck. I feel awful, so awful I had a banana and yogurt for breakfast rather than that bulletproof coffee. Today I weighed 212.2.

I keep telling myself that I need to wait for hunger, that any other approach will just end in misery whereas this approach starts out with misery.

One difference for me from when I have tried the approach of waiting for hunger is I am limiting myself to eating three times per day no matter what. Last night, I didn't eat dinner with my husband and daughter, but I did feel a slight twinge of hunger at 7:30 and ate then.

oolala53
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by oolala53 » Tue Apr 05, 2022 7:54 pm

A new leg in the journey!

What constitutes hunger can be tricky. My regular cues subsided in 2016 and I have tried many adjustments along the way, the most significant being the recent one I instituted last July after seeing average blood glucose rise over the previous 18 months. It's harder than "dieting" ever was, but the glucose monitor readings are right there, no matter what the stomach is saying. If I have adequate glucose circulating, there is really no good reason to eat, at least for this body any more. But there's no telling that my younger body might have been able to clear glucose much faster and at a rate that would have allowed me to overeat. The No S structure was enough for many years.

I made the mistake while on this program, which did increase satiety and thus led to sizable drops in calorie intake, of not keeping up with activity at the same time, but you seem to be better at that than I am. I have been able to gauge things over this eight months so that I can pretty predictably get my readings in the right range for the eating times that are most important to me. I eat alone nearly all the time but like preserving dinner time at least. Most people won't stick with eating that keeps them from being able to share food in some kind of consistent, minimum way.

It's also tricky that the body can register desire for food from the brain long before it makes the effort to tap into its fat reserves. This helped keep our ancestors alive but is leading to many problems in an environment where food it pretty much always available. Most people never get hungry because they don't wait long enough and fear it. Everyone has to figure out that seesaw ride for herself.

The quality of the food eaten makes a big difference, too. It takes a lot more calories of refined foods to register satiety. Mice fed a "supermarket" diet ad libitum of the average foods Americans routinely eat nearly all gain weight. Of course, they don't care! When they go back to eating their diet of rat chow freely, they lose. Obviously, they are not trying to eat less or lose. It just happens. But it's still a bit unnatural in comparison with the situation we have, given that it's not common to live in an atmosphere with nearly all whole foods. And some bodies have set points that keep much weight gain in check even if being fed a lot of processed foods.

Oy! In any case, wishing you a successful April.
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 68
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (more flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

Kathleen
Posts: 1659
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Kathleen » Wed Apr 06, 2022 3:01 pm

oolala53,

I can imagine it is tricky to figure out hunger cues! I remember once my stomach growling when Tom and I were discussing dinner. Was the growl brought on by the discussion? What I concluded was that a stomach noise does not necessarily mean hunger. What does? I have to figure that out for myself and maybe hunger cues are different for different people or even change as we age.

I ate so much at lunch yesterday that I wasn't hungry for dinner, and today I weighed 211.2. I am trying to pay attention to what might signal hunger.

Tom introduced a good idea which is to wait for a meal before eating, although he thinks it is a bad idea to skip meals. I told him I need to figure out how much to eat at one meal so that I am hungry by the next meal. Many years ago, I remember someone telling me that she thought those who were thin knew how to tolerate hunger. Interesting idea... why can't I experience hunger at 8 and be able to wait until noon to eat? I did have breakfast of a banana and yogurt even though I have no idea if I was hungry. I just don't think it is a good idea to have coffee on an empty stomach.

Kathleen

oolala53
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by oolala53 » Thu Apr 07, 2022 2:04 am

I cannot depend on signals any more, though I have found that if I eat the right breakfast and an extremely small "lunch," more like a snack, I can be hungry for dinner, but it is not truly predictable. For years on Vanilla No S, I was able to gauge meals so that I was hungry, but older body systems just don't work as well. I am limited by blood sugar and fat metabolism issues now. It takes a lot of the choice out of things, much like sticking to No S structure does. Decreasing decision making is a common strategy used in over-consumption problems of all kinds. I still get inklings to eat outside of these times, but I know if I do, I will not enjoy the food later.

Have you read Dopamine Nation? Only a small part of it is about eating issues, but so many of the principles seem to apply to the kind of overeating that leads to fat accumulation.

Slim people are often willing to get very hungry. For instance, even though they may be very hungry, they will usually choose to wait for a meal with others, such as dinner out, rather than "take the edge off." But it's likely also true that they are in a natural set point range and their bodies don't cue them to eat outside it. It's also true, though, that when they are exposed to more food at one time, such as a big restaurant meal, they too are likely to eat more food than they would when served less. The difference is that they will often later naturally just eat less. We who don't have such natural controls must impose them.

Being able to tolerate hunger long enough to allow the body to tap into its fat stores is necessary for just about everybody. It can feel like punishment but that's just the mistaken survival drive. The only people I've read of who consistently say they never get hungry while lowering intake are those who get into ketosis, which lowers appetite. But that involved being very restricted in food choices and the effect can wear off in about a year. But it can work wonders on certain health conditions, especially nervous system issues. The weight loss is a side effect.

Stomach noise has been associated with hunger but it does not mean a need for food. It's often after someone tolerates stomach grumbles that the body will then tap into glycogen stores. It won't burn much fat until glycogen is used up. Glycogen is bound with water, which is why people often lose weight when first reducing food. It's the water being released from the glucose. Unless people are fed very small amounts of food at a time, the body will not have a reason to get its stores if people eat often. That's why the three meals and three snacks movement didn't work very well. It's not really much easier to consistently eat small amounts than it is to consciously reduce calories.

You didn't ask but trying to determine any real connection with weight loss and gain on a daily basis with what a person eats can be very misleading. The body is just not capable of altering fat stores by very much on a daily basis unless it is manipulated very carefully and even then it's iffy. Big changes have more to do with water changes, which are often related to starchy, refined flour foods, sugar, and salt.

Oh, my goodness, the price we have paid for having an abundance of affordable food!
Count plates, not calories. 11 years "during"
Age 68
BMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8 3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (more flux) 3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux 6/20 22
1/21-23

There is no S better than Vanilla No S (mods now as a senior citizen)

Kathleen
Posts: 1659
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Kathleen » Thu Apr 07, 2022 1:22 pm

April 7: 211.0 today

Wow, that was really helpful! Thank you!

I don't feel hungry if I have a banana and yogurt in the morning along with coffee so that will be my routine at least for now.

I may switch to three meals per day and aim for some sense of hunger. I was very happy this morning to wake up with some sense of hunger.

Dopamine Nation sounds like something interesting to read.

7 PM: Today was not miserable. Today was fine. I actually slept ok, too. Maybe I am already through the worst. I have to tune into hunger. This afternoon, I was at Costco and I have many times thought that how I addressed my weight problem had to include how I dealt with Costco taste tests. It seemed as I was walking by the taste tests that there was a paradigm shift: I had no interest in them because I wasn't hungry. Shocking. I didn't even recall that I had told Tom that I wouldn't snack. I wasn't interested in Costco taste tests solely because I wasn't hungry.

Kathleen
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Kathleen » Fri Apr 08, 2022 10:39 am

Day 6. 211.4. Woke at 3. Very slight emptiness in stomach kept me awake. This isn’t hunger. It just isn’t stuffed which is what I am used to being. I need to get used to not being stuffed.

The idea of standardizing meals somewhat appeals to me. I already have pretty much a standard of a banana and yogurt for breakfast. I am going to look into having walnuts for lunch.

I bribed myself to get through this. Katie starts a new job in late April and we are doing on a trip to Wyoming during Easter week. She needs to distance herself from a job where she was very successful but the boss called out people in front of their peers, and I need to bribe myself to endure this transition.

I look back at the many times I tried to avoid the feeling of hunger by eating popcorn (which ai actually did this week — an entire bucketful) or grapefruit, and I realize I was on the wrong path. I was trying to avoid hunger instead of welcoming it as a signal that it is time to eat. Hunger is not an on off switch. It builds over time. It totally makes sense that thin people let hunger build until mealtime.

ladybird30
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by ladybird30 » Sat Apr 09, 2022 11:57 pm

All the best with the hunger training Kathleen.
Three meals a day - not too little not too much, but just right

Kathleen
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Kathleen » Sat Apr 16, 2022 6:07 pm

I was at Costco this morning and had a taste test. I have reverted to eating while not hungry. I think that the most socially acceptable way to train myself to eat only when hungry is to have small meals but have a meal three times per day.

Why does this seem like self evident common sense?

Kathleen
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Kathleen » Sun Apr 17, 2022 12:18 am

I am stuffed right now. It feels good.

I believe that I could go down the path of only eating when hungry but the social cost is so great I would either become a fanatic or would keep on failing, binge eating, and staring over with Day 1 after Day 1.

I am going to go the small meal route.

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lpearlmom
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by lpearlmom » Mon Apr 18, 2022 6:01 am

i so wanted the eating only when hungry thing to work for me but it never did. partly cuz i thought i was always hungry and therefore gained 80 lbs. also yes it’s not realistic unless you live alone and rarely have meals with friends.

i do think you are right. eating just the right amount to insure you’ll be hungry at the next meal. also when you eat at the same time, you train your body to be hungry at those times. much more sustainable i think.

best of luck!!
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Amy3010
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Amy3010 » Wed May 04, 2022 5:03 am

I hope things are going well with figuring out how much to eat so you're not hungry at the next meal! It is challenging - hang in there!

Kathleen
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Kathleen » Sat May 14, 2022 2:52 pm

What a month. Life happened. Our daughter Katie was so upset with her boss (worse than either of us have ever had) that her hair was falling out, and she found another job. She had a three week employment gap, so I drove her to stay for several days at the Wyoming ranch where she had stayed as a college graduation gift last year. This was a way for her to "turn the page" on her awful last job. There was a blizzard that closed 94 through much of ND until two days before Easter, so we drove through SD with our trip starting after Easter dinner. We were at the Wyoming ranch three nights, and a big blizzard was predicted to come in the next day so we decided to leave early. We drove over the Big Horn Mountains and crossed into SD with signs overhead predicting a blizzard starting at 3 am Saturday. We were driving Friday afternoon. We arrived at Wall Drug to look around and we saw the storm coming in, so we left and saw the storm to our south as we drove. The next day, even I-80 in Wyoming was closed and of course the route over the Big Horns was closed. We arrived home Saturday night, having driven more than 3,000 miles since Sunday afternoon.

I had scheduled an oil change for after our return and found out the brakes need to be replaced. I scheduled service for the next week and then found out that there was something rusted inside the Sienna that made it unsafe to drive and required $3,000 in repairs. The body of the Sienna could have collapsed onto the wheels. Imagine that as we were driving over the Big Horns. We could have careened over the side of the road. For the past week, I have been looking for a Sienna because next week Ellie starts an internship and needs one of our cars. Two days ago, five days after finding out about the extensive repairs needed on our old Sienna, I traded in the Sienna for another Sienna. Tom was too swamped at work to help look, so I relied on the advice of the very helpful service manager where we get our cars serviced. It was still very stressful. A married woman without her husband and with little to no knowledge of cars does not seem like a good prospect to car salespeople, I sadly learned. Yesterday we got the 4Runner serviced so Ellie could use it for her internship going to construction sites. Getting everything done before Ellie starts next week was stressful.

What does this all mean? As my mother said, I think I need to thank my guardian angel that we made it intact on this trip. I also realize the utter futility of any sort of a weight management program that requires a lot of time and attention. Yesterday, I weighed 213.2 and weighed my options.

Today, I decided that a stomach growl while imperfect, could indicate hunger. My stomach rarely growls. I decided just to wait for a stomach growl and then eat a small meal if it is mealtime but wait if it is not yet a mealtime. I will skip meals if I have not had a stomach growl since the prior meal. This approach appeals to my desire for perfection. I can know if my stomach is growling. The risk, of course, is that my stomach growls for other reasons, but I can mitigate that risk by focusing on only having small meals.

Amy3010
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Amy3010 » Sun May 15, 2022 6:25 am

Wow - that does sound like an incredibly stressful month - thank goodness you made it back home safely! Of course when life hits you like that, the urgency of a weight loss plan just fades into the background, doesn't it?

Kathleen
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Kathleen » Sun May 15, 2022 6:58 pm

Hi Amy2010:

Yes, it does!

I did have some time to think, however, which is a good thing. Yesterday, both girls were out, so we were on our own for dinner, and Tom wanted to eat out. It is less expensive to go out when there are only two of you!

So much for my plan of waiting for a stomach growl!

I decided on this modification: wait each morning to eat until my stomach growls. Today, it growled at about 11 am.

I prefer to have something to eat when I have my morning coffee, so it will be motivating to eat less during the day so that I have a stomach growl in the morning. We shall see how this goes.

Amy3010
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Amy3010 » Mon May 16, 2022 5:40 am

I get it - that was one of my motivations for not eating in the evenings after dinner - I wanted to wake up feeling hungry for breakfast! I hope this works for you, too :D

Kathleen
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by Kathleen » Sat May 21, 2022 8:40 pm

That did not last long.

I am back to the brilliance of the NoS Diet with its focus on habits.

Probably two decades ago, someone said to me that she thought that thin people knew how to tolerate hunger. That seemed like an odd statement to me, and I have pondered its implications ever since then.

I think those who are fat tend to eat before becoming hungry and also at any indication of hunger. Yesterday while at the dentist my stomach growled. Was that an emergency? No. Did I really need to go straight from the dentist to the kitchen? No.

I decided just to write down what I eat and give one letter explanations for why:
C: coffee
M; meal
H: hunger
S: social
N: none of the above

My first goal is to eat only under very broad circumstances. If I just eliminate non social snacking, I am eliminating a lot of eating. Will I end up eating more at mealtimes as a result? That remains to be seen.

Right now, it is almost 4. I feel enough of a desire to eat that I would go have crackers or bread except that I am not hungry and it isn’t mealtime. Can I argue to myself that I am in fact hungry? Yes. Like all humans, I am a master of self deception. I need to limit myself to eating outside of mealtime or social situations only if I am definitely hungry. A stomach growl is not a sign of definite hunger. In fact at this point I am not sure I know what hungry feels like!

This is sure a simple approach. The question is whether it is effective.

ladybird30
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Re: The Blessings of Simplicity

Post by ladybird30 » Sun May 22, 2022 1:09 am

Hi Kathleen, it's been my experience that eating only when I was hungry was something I had to work up to. It wasn't consistently possible until after I had established a three meal a day habit
Three meals a day - not too little not too much, but just right

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