oolala53

Counting carbs/calories is a drag. Obsessive scale stepping is a recipe for despair. If you want to count something, "days on habit" is a much better metric. Checking off days on a calendar would do just fine, but if you do it here you get accountability and support. Here's how. Start a new topic in this forum called (say) "Your Name Daily Check In." Then every N day post a "reply" to that topic as to whether you stayed on habit. A simple "<font color="green">SUCCESS</font>" or "<font color="red">FAILURE</font>" (or your preferred euphemism if that's too harsh) is sufficient, but obviously you're welcome to write more if you want. On S-days just register that you're taking an S-day. You don't have to do this forever, just until you're confident you've built the habit. Feel free to check in weekly or monthly or sporadically instead of daily. Feel free also to track other habits besides No-s (I'm keeping this forum under No-s because that's what the vast majority are using it for). See also my <a href="/habitcal/">HabitCal</a> tool for another more formal (and perhaps complementary) way to track habits.

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jw
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Post by jw » Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:35 pm

I LOVE the tiny house movement! and the challenge of downsizing and starting from scratch is very appealing to me, too. Here's a fun, romantic twist on that: http://flavorwire.com/270693/gypsy-wago ... ing-design
"The second you overcomplicate it is the second it becomes the thing for which it is a corrective." -- El Fug

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Post by MJ7910 » Sat Mar 15, 2014 2:13 pm

i have always wanted to dejunk my house and look at some of the things i've been carrying around as posessions for no reason. things i have never looked at for years truly dont' belong in my house. this post is an inspiration to think about all the boxes in my basement!
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Post by oolala53 » Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:28 pm

I've looked very briefly at "The Minimalists." One of them got rid of 2,000 books. And I think he's a writer! What am I holding on to mine for? I really will likely not read most of them again. Some of them not even the first time.

I've got to remember to keep taking pics before and after. Last week I unstuffed some drawers in my closet. I notice the difference, but it would have been nice to document.
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 9 years & counting
Age 65
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
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Mar/18 22.2

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.

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Post by Sweetness » Sun Mar 16, 2014 12:39 am

oolala53 wrote:I've looked very briefly at "The Minimalists." One of them got rid of 2,000 books. And I think he's a writer! What am I holding on to mine for? I really will likely not read most of them again. Some of them not even the first time.

I've got to remember to keep taking pics before and after. Last week I unstuffed some drawers in my closet. I notice the difference, but it would have been nice to document.
Take pictures, especially of the things you have trouble parting with, you can always go back and look at it! :wink:
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Post by oolala53 » Wed Mar 19, 2014 4:26 am

I was fearing the end of the school day because I had dropped back into my pattern of failing after school even though each night I swear that the next day, I won't. I was wondering how I was going to get through the 2.5 hours. Yes, I know how short that time is, but I hadn't been making it for quite awhile. Thankfully, the urge wasn't very strong at the witching hour and I was tired enough for a nap when I arrived home. Woke up at a perfect time for dinner. Whew!
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 9 years & counting
Age 65
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Mar/18 22.2

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.

oolala53
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Post by oolala53 » Wed Mar 19, 2014 4:36 am

jw, those gypsy wagons are a kick! Nothing like the spare places I've been looking at. (And no kitchens or bathrooms. Hmmm.) But I love that look, too. I've never been able to pull off either one.
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 9 years & counting
Age 65
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
Mar/18 22.2

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.

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Post by eschano » Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:11 am

My secret weapon is taking a hot bath. Until I'm done and did my hair 2 hours can go by :) Otherwise lightening candles, taking a hot cup of tea with milk (preferably herbal tea with cocoa beans or vanilla or cardamon as they smell super nice and have 0 sugar nor do they taste sweet) and grab my favourite novel in bookform (much harder to snack while reading a proper book than while reading a kindle).
eschano - Vanilla rocks!

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mestahl
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Post by mestahl » Wed Mar 19, 2014 12:49 pm

For me - the dreaded 4 to 6pm period can be very rough. I've basically white knuckled it many times - Its after work and I'm hungry and I am alone and this is perfect binge conditions for me.

What helps me is a hot cup of tea - exercise can help - drinking tons of water - calling my mom - or watching a tv show - basically staying busy until my hubby comes home and we have dinner. Sometimes though especially on Mondays I'm just totally hanging on for dear life.

oolala53
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Post by oolala53 » Wed Mar 19, 2014 12:59 pm

I realize one of my complications has been that I thought by now I would be living a little differently, not avoiding tough tasks I have to do while filling my time with shopping, TV, and the internet. Some book reading. But I know I've told others just to do whatever gets them through, as long as it's not cocaine or booze! I guess I need to give myself that for awhile again.
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 9 years & counting
Age 65
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
Mar/18 22.2

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.

r.jean
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Post by r.jean » Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:56 pm

"I realize one of my complications has been that I thought by now I would be living a little differently...."

I completely understand this realization. I thought the same thing. In year one I made some big changes in exercise and eating habits. Some positive changes in other personal habits seemed to occur naturally as a result. In years two and three I maintained those changes with minimal effort. I took it for granted that I would maintain forever, but some major life events derailed me. I am taking it one day at a time, one meal at a time trying to get back on the straight and narrow with Vanilla No S. I am also working on exercise and other personal habits, but I am keeping it simple.

As you noted before you and I started No S around the same time. We are also of similar age. It helps to hear how others cope and move on when setbacks occur. Hang in there.
The journey is the reward.
Maintenance is progress.

oolala53
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Post by oolala53 » Tue Mar 25, 2014 1:38 pm

Had an "old days" overeating weekend.

Ate modest meals yesterday. Wasn't hungry for any of them, but felt I could not skip any. In fact, I feel very similarly at meal time (or even earlier) to how I feel when I want to binge. I"m having a hard time waiting even 5 hours, which used to be a pretty easy, typical gap for me. But I've also been in situations in which I've had to wait that long or longer, but still no hunger. I think that is messing with my motivation. If I'm not going to get hungry, why wait? Not rational, but so much of eating stuff isn't.

I'm also trying to go vegetarian, for spiritual reasons. I'm not sure I could have tamed sugar without animal protein. If felt integral. But I've felt down deep that eventually, I should be able to make the shift. I'm suspicious that my problems are partially the placebo effect. There are so many exhortations to eat a certain ratio of protein that's hard to get without eating meat. Am I just interpreting symptoms that actually have nothing to do with not eating meat? Unfortunately, I find myself reading in the Paleo camp of people claiming their cravings for sugar and grain products went away after a few days or a week of not eating them. But I know that statistically, most people are not still following such specific guidelines two years after adopting them. And I read of even Paleo people having sugar or other binges. Blah blah blah.

Aagh! And I'm feeling pressure because I'm judging that I should not be having these problems four years into No S.

But, I'm just reporting the problems now, so it looks worse than it is. I had some things to do yesterday, and just kept diverting my thinking to them when food thoughts came up. That's the habit I need to work on in conjunction with reestablishing N day compliance. Though thinking about the rest of my life can be even more stressful.

I had eaten down to just a few servings of beans, pasta, and polenta left, so I started grocery shopping again. Eggs, Greek yogurt, and "resistant starches," in addition to the usual freggies. Resistant starches are ones that have a lot of starch that cannot be digested in the small intestine, so thus pass on to the large one. There are gut bacteria there that feed on them and produce good stuff for humans. But it can take several weeks to have them be able to make an impact. I'm not sure what impact I'm looking for. Maybe they'll help reestablish consistent hunger? Anyway, I had an omelet made with potato starch last night. Awesome! Much like a crepe. But you don't have to eat such a processed version. You can just eat cold cooked potatoes, lots of legumes, and less ripe bananas.
Last edited by oolala53 on Wed Mar 26, 2014 12:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

r.jean
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Post by r.jean » Tue Mar 25, 2014 2:34 pm

I just read this after posting on my own daily thread. You may want to read it. As you know, I have also been struggling, but I am seeing some improvement now. Hang in there. Hopefully things will settle down for you soon!
The journey is the reward.
Maintenance is progress.

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Post by eschano » Tue Mar 25, 2014 3:15 pm

Oolala hang in there! But maybe you should pretend to be at the beginning of NoS again, scrap all mods and only worry about vanilla for now?
eschano - Vanilla rocks!

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jw
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Post by jw » Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:34 pm

Oolala, I have been having a similar experience as I shift my focus from the "when and how much" of No S to the "what" of a celiac diet -- I think because the "what" involves what I perceive to be deprivation. It's easier if you focus on things you absolutely love from among the permitted foods, of course. I could make a whole meal of baby asparagus and olive oil, for example, but if I started calling it vegetarian or vegan, I think the focus would be on "lack" rather than "love." Just a thought.
"The second you overcomplicate it is the second it becomes the thing for which it is a corrective." -- El Fug

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Post by oolala53 » Wed Mar 26, 2014 4:59 am

Thanks for the support, you angels! I don't consider what I'm doing mods to No S as much as ways I'm looking to evolve into a more satisfying life that actually goes beyond eating but also includes it. Unfortunately, right now, I can't say that I love any food anymore, yet I really miss loving it! I rarely feel any real satisfaction from eating these days and I very much desire that satisfaction again. I don't know what is going to make that happen, and I'm actually kinda tired of trying to figure it out. I'm just trying to be content with eating what I know are reasonable meals of foods I like and that I think serve me well. I'm not avoiding foods because I think they are too "fattening" or "bad," but because they have continued to be foods I tend to overdo, and it's just not fun to eat them anymore. It's all an experiment, and I will reevaluate at the summer equinox.

Just came back from the book signing and talk by The Minimalists. I found it did not make me more determined, as I hoped it would. But that's not on them. Oh, well.
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 9 years & counting
Age 65
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
Mar/18 22.2

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.

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Post by r.jean » Wed Mar 26, 2014 12:10 pm

Could there be a medical reason for the lack of appetite?
The journey is the reward.
Maintenance is progress.

oolala53
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Post by oolala53 » Wed Mar 26, 2014 2:13 pm

I'm starting to suspect so, I thought briefly of mentioning it when I was going to meet my new doctor at Kaiser, but on that day, it eluded me. I guess I need to call back. Curses! I guess I might have to put my money where my mouth is. I'm always saying that if people have a real health condition, they should let that trump the freedom of NO S, if necessary. Maybe I don't want to find out I need to,
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 9 years & counting
Age 65
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
Mar/18 22.2

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.

ironchef
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Post by ironchef » Thu Mar 27, 2014 2:12 am

I hope it turns out to be nothing, but definitely agree it is worth getting checked so you can take that off your mind.

I like reading the Minimalists, that's so cool that you met them! I read their stuff for inspiration sometimes, but deep down I know that with a dog, child and spouse I will never be able to aspire to their extremes. It is fun though to try out a few things.

I know you wrote a few posts back about books - I used to hoard these too. My rules of thumb now are: will I re-read or refer to it? Would it be hard to get at a library or online? If the answer to these is no, I donate it. Exceptions for really precious books and things I want to keep for my son to browse through.

PS I used to go to the doctor with a written list of notes and questions, otherwise I'd always forget something and kick myself later.

oolala53
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Post by oolala53 » Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:20 pm

Dr. said she thinks lack of appetite may have to do with lack of exercise. She didn't want to to give meds for appetite and I didn't want them. Hadn't even thought of that. She said there was nothing in my blood work or anything else to merit any tests for digestive issues. I'll try more exercise until the summer solstice and see where I'm at.
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 9 years & counting
Age 65
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
Mar/18 22.2

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.

Strawberry Roan
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Post by Strawberry Roan » Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:48 pm

Glad to hear that there are no serious medical issues. I agree that vigorous exercise does stimulate one's appetite.
Berry

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Post by automatedeating » Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:49 am

Guess you'll have to get dancing again! :)
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Post by MerryKat » Wed Apr 02, 2014 6:19 am

Yippee!!!! So glad to hear that there are no serious health issues showing. Frustrating for you however without an answer. But exercise is so good for so many things so maybe worth trying. Enjoy establishing an exercise routine again.

I agree with jw that for me when I start looking at the what rather than the when is when my sorry for me / deprivation feelings kick in.

I really need to up my protein but I am not a big meat (red, chicken, fish) eater so it is a tough one. When I force myself to up the protein and reduce the carbs I get miserable and then end up binging. So I am trying right now to eat the things I love (as jw says) and bear in mind that I need more protein and less carbs. I do find it helps when making the meals and dishing up but because it is not my whole focus I am not as rebellious!!!

((((((((((Hugs))))))))))
Hugs from Sunny South Africa
Vanilla No S with no Sugar due to Health issues - 11 yrs No S - September 2016 (some good, some bad (my own doing) but always the right thing for me!)

ironchef
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Post by ironchef » Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:14 am

Glad to hear there isn't something serious going on.

Exercise is a good idea, and enjoyable even if it doesn't change your appetite. I must admit, I find vigorous exercise actually can dull my appetite (I never feel like a big meal after running for instance). The exception for me is swimming - I always feel ravenous after a swim.

oolala53
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Post by oolala53 » Fri Apr 04, 2014 2:21 am

Thanks, folks! I did walk to a friend's today.
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 9 years & counting
Age 65
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
Mar/18 22.2

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.

oolala53
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Post by oolala53 » Fri Apr 04, 2014 5:09 am

Forgot to mention the disappointing news. My doctor isn't concerned about my cholesterol but I am. It used to be in the 140-150 range when I was fatter and ate a lot more crap. Now it's 196, 3 points below the top of the acceptable range. Hmmm. However, I'm not going to aim at doing anything about it right now.
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 9 years & counting
Age 65
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
Mar/18 22.2

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.

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Post by LoriLifts » Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:28 pm

Stopping by to say hi!
Regarding your cholesterol, there's a book called Cholesterol Clarity by Jimmy Moore. It's a interesting read....
Habits are at first cobwebs, then cables.

oolala53
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Post by oolala53 » Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:55 am

It's amazing how hard a time I can be having after all this time. I have such strong desires for the pleasure that my old binge foods provided. I had to really use my strategies yesterday not to go buy and eat some after work. I did a couple of errands and was almost going to buy fast food fried chicken and eat an early dinner. Technically compliant, but I knew it wasn't what I needed. Still wasn't hungry at dinner time but ate anyway.

Have been working out for 4-7 minutes vigorously most N days. That is progress for me! We're having a heat spell, but maybe when it cools back down I will try to work something in in the late afternoon/early evening, too. But don't want to get ahead of myself.
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 9 years & counting
Age 65
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
Mar/18 22.2

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.

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Post by MerryKat » Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:04 pm

Well done on not giving in to the old urges for binge food and staying strong.

What exercises are you doing on N days? I am glad we are heading into winter so exercising will be easier with it cooler.
Hugs from Sunny South Africa
Vanilla No S with no Sugar due to Health issues - 11 yrs No S - September 2016 (some good, some bad (my own doing) but always the right thing for me!)

oolala53
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Post by oolala53 » Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:31 pm

I been using 7-minute workout timers available on the web. They go along with http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/05/0 ... blogs&_r=0

I've also used 4-minute workouts by Craig Ballantyne available for free on youtube, and started supplementing with lighter moves.

I use some moves from Tami Lee Webb that she included in a video called I Want That Body and some from other stuff I've done from lots of workouts over the years.

I try to vary it so that I am doing the more strenuous stuff that taxes thighs and arms only a couple of days a week, and supplement with lighter weights and quicker moves the rest of the time. I may up the ante more often as I get more regular, but I already did something to a midback muscle. I am trying to avoid that so that I can stay consistent. I can't even figure out what move did it.

I have tons of workout videos but haven't yet gotten myself back into the habit of using them.

Going to go do my 7 minutes now, though!
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 9 years & counting
Age 65
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
Mar/18 22.2

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.

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Post by MerryKat » Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:49 pm

sounds like you have it all planned out!! Enjoy getting back to your exercises and re-establishing the habit of exercise.

I love the 7 minute work out! This is my kind of thing. Will definitely alternate it with the plan I started for myself.
Hugs from Sunny South Africa
Vanilla No S with no Sugar due to Health issues - 11 yrs No S - September 2016 (some good, some bad (my own doing) but always the right thing for me!)

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Post by Strawberry Roan » Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:46 pm

Sounds great, I crave exercise and get very tense when I don't have the time or opportunity to do it. I hope you enjoy your new workouts.
Berry

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Post by MerryKat » Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:12 am

oolala - I love this work out!! I was pooped at the end!!! I really felt as if I had worked out well!!

I substituted the crunches for a bridge as I am wary of crunches and have hurt my back doing them in the past.

I will alternate this with the lighter plan I have drawn up for myself - similar types of exercise.

Hope your back feeling better.
Hugs from Sunny South Africa
Vanilla No S with no Sugar due to Health issues - 11 yrs No S - September 2016 (some good, some bad (my own doing) but always the right thing for me!)

oolala53
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Post by oolala53 » Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:59 pm

I do variations on crunches or any moves, some of them standing, that tax the abdominals on different days. I do the wall sit for 90 sec. on Thursdays. I mix it up! But today's workout didn't leave me breathless. Oh, well.

Failed yesterday, but not spectacularly. Still, sigh. I'm still not able to fill the time between 3:30 p.m. and dinner with some of the productive activities I would like to. And they are very unlikely AFTER dinner. Maybe this is as good as it gets.

I AM grateful I did not go and buy the cookie dough I was thinking about. Even had a discounted angel food cake in my hand, but I put it back. I've got to remember to use NO CHOICE earlier in the process.
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 9 years & counting
Age 65
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
Mar/18 22.2

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.

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Post by lpearlmom » Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:57 pm

Good for you for not letting a small fail become a huge one!

I noticed you said you'd like to more productive before dinner. Do you think that might be asking too much after a long day at work? Maybe you need to give yourself permission to gel & do nothing if needed during that time? Something mindless even?

Good luck!

Linda
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Post by automatedeating » Fri Apr 11, 2014 3:31 am

Oolala, I have been reading about Flylady. She's a cleaning guru that Linda and many others have recommended. She emphasizes how much we can accomplish in just 15 minutes. I too have issues with being productive in the afternoon hours. Today I set the timer for 15 minutes and hit it. It's so like Reinhard's 14 minutes of anything concept. I think it just might be a workable plan for me!
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3; 8/14-24.5; 5/15-26.2; 1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6; 8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9; 3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8; 1/19-23.4; 2/19-22.7; 3/19-22.1

oolala53
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Post by oolala53 » Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:00 am

I've been getting Flylady's newsletter for over a year... :oops:
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 9 years & counting
Age 65
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
Mar/18 22.2

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.

ironchef
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Post by ironchef » Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:18 am

Hey, no need for a blush ;), I'm an intermittent follower of the FlyLady routines as well.

My only tip is one you're already following - with 7 and 4 minutes work outs. I do the same with other stuff. Instead of the full 15 minutes I tell myself I'll just do 5. 80% of the time, I go ahead and do 15 after all.

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Post by MerryKat » Fri Apr 11, 2014 11:19 am

I have also followed FlyLady on and off for years. I do find the bulk of her program is aimed at stay at home mums so I have cancelled the emails (stressful when I don't have time to read or do).

I have used her ideas to work out alternate daily, weekly, monthly and bi-annual schedules and try (emphasise on try) to keep with that.

Every little helps be it 5 or 15 minutes!
Hugs from Sunny South Africa
Vanilla No S with no Sugar due to Health issues - 11 yrs No S - September 2016 (some good, some bad (my own doing) but always the right thing for me!)

oolala53
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Post by oolala53 » Fri Apr 11, 2014 12:48 pm

Omgosh, I have hurt my left shoulder a lot more than I thought. I didn't even feel it when it happened. Maybe I made it worse rubbing around on it (I used to be a massage therapist. Hmm.) I have to be very careful which I angle I move the arm in or there is a lot of pain. Dang! I will work around it for my workout, but even normal life is going to be irritating to it. I'm considering using a scarf to make my own sling for today.

Don't know if I've been talking about it here, but my teachers' union had a vote last month over an ongoing labor dispute (unilateral decision to raise insurance copay for families, teacher-to-student ratios, et al), and it was 90% to strike. Once the vote was tallied, though I had voted yes, I started to get really worried. I've got only four more semesters after this, so I did not want to lose that pay! It would take quite a sizable pay raise, which wasn't even our main focus, to recoup that money in two years. In fact, the pay raise we were looking for would have been used up in only one day out. But, the two sides reached an agreement last night. It isn't perfect, but is likely the best we can do. We both got to save face. I am so grateful for what I do get.

Had quite a fail again yesterday. It's starting to feel like the old problem. It's so easy after the fail to swear off the behavior, but when the "danger" time comes, the urges are exactly the same, and the inner voice is planning on eating and saying what a good idea it would be to have that food, and how it won't be a big problem, and I'll make up for it later, yada yada. One part of me is desperately feeling it needs something else in my life to change and be better in order for me to combat this, but that change isn't likely to come soon, so I know rationally, I need to stop depending on it. But it's surprisingly strong. Thoughts of being deserving of the comfort and pleasure in the moment keep looming. Would it really be so terrible to be THAT PERSON again, the one who uses food, as so many other people do? Is it the worst crime possible? But no, I don't want to be her! This is one thing that "works" just by doing it. I don't have to weigh a certain amount to be successful. That is a deal worth fighting for.

Speaking of housework, one of what I consider my few indulgences, a maid every 3 weeks, is coming today. Once again, I will go throw all the extra papers sitting around into the storage hassock, the one I half cleared out a couple of weeks ago. I tell myself every time I will lick this problem, even with 15 minutes a day, but it just feels too daunting nearly all the time. I see how much it's like the eating issue. But I have not yet been able to muster the will to do it. Oh, well.
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 9 years & counting
Age 65
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
Mar/18 22.2

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.

r.jean
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Post by r.jean » Sat Apr 12, 2014 3:57 pm

So sorry to hear about the shoulder. It sounds a lot like my rotator cuff injury. Mine was caused by a fall, but I have also had similar but milder shoulder symptoms from exercise. And when I say milder, it still hurts a lot either way. Google rotator cuff tendonitis or tear and look at uptodate.com. There are some good exercises to move your shoulder with support to keep it from freezing up on you while it heals.

Good to see you hanging in there even though struggles continue. Me too! However, I feel there is a light at the end of the tunnel now.
The journey is the reward.
Maintenance is progress.

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Post by oolala53 » Sun Apr 13, 2014 4:06 pm

Thanks, r.jean! I went to a meditation session yesterday that I go to periodically. We can sit any way we want and I was very comfortable on a sofa. I wasn't even thinking about the arm issue at all, but noticed that after the session, I could move it in a greater range than before. It's even better today. Probably wouldn't hurt to look at those exercises.

A friend that I went to the meditation with told me that overhead presses can cause such injuries and that a physical therapist he knew said they should never be done, even though they are recommended by trainers all the time. I had done some. Am not going to try anything like that yet to see if it feels like the move that caused the problem.

I've heard the same with the gym machine move that has you sit with knee bent and raise a weight that works your quads. Very hard on the joint attachments and not really necessary to exercise the muscle. I found that out when I hurt a knee and went to a PT. I don't think I hurt it that time using that machine, but I had used it plenty when I did go to the gym. Geesh! How can trainers and PT's be giving such different advice?

Had a good day eating yesterday. Not much movement.

've got to work most of today. Grades due, papework for meetings coming up that didn't get done in time alloted Friday. It's just the way it is for most English teachers, even the really organized non-procrastinators. Or so I tell myself.
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 9 years & counting
Age 65
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
Mar/18 22.2

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.

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Post by r.jean » Mon Apr 14, 2014 12:38 am

It is hard to figure out who to listen to! Good to hear you are doing better.
The journey is the reward.
Maintenance is progress.

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lpearlmom
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Post by lpearlmom » Mon Apr 14, 2014 5:23 am

I volunteer at in my daughters classroom every Friday and most of the time I'm helping her with her never ending pile of papers that need to be graded. She's by no means a slacker (sometimes she stays till 10pm) so I'm pretty sure you're not alone!

Glad your arm is feeling a bit better.

Linda
💜💜💜 Please no body or food shaming. Eyes on your own plate. 💜💜💜

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Post by Diligence » Tue Apr 15, 2014 2:48 pm

I'm sorry to hear about your injury. I hope it has continued to improve. Just wanted to pop in to thank you for all the encouragement and insight you give on this board. It is a huge help to "know" someone who has been there for the long haul and sees the value of both the No S philosophy and of those people who are trying to apply it to their lives. Thank you.

oolala53
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Post by oolala53 » Thu Apr 17, 2014 1:37 pm

The shoulder is incredibly better! It hurt so much I would never have thought it could feel so good so soon. However, I'm not doing any lifting weight over my head, nor any moves in which I lift a weight bringing my two hands up along the center of my torso while lifting elbows out. Those are the injury moves. And I'll be cautious for quite awhile in dance, if I go.

Without looking for it or anything like it, I came across some stuff on dieting as if one had had gastric bypass and that took me to the 5-bite diet. I know herbsgirl has been bite counting. I'm still not ready for that, but reading about this did help me become a bit more willing to experiment with even smaller meals to see if I can get my hunger back. However, I'm also not willing to give up my freggies, which greatly increases the bites. The doctor promoting the diet claims in the years he's been using the plan with patients, he's never had anyone lose and then gain and get heavier. (Statistically, people who go on any diet weigh more two years later.) I guess we have to take his word for it. On Brightangel's site, she said she tried the diet and participated in discussion groups with him. When she said she had lost and then gained some while still sticking to the plan, he implied she was either inaccurate or lying. Doubtful on either charge. In any case, it's not my goal to find a way to lose the most I can. I'd just like to find a livable way to get back to the nice hunger I used to feel for my meals. It's not a crisis and I'm doing what sounds reasonable to me.

I think I"ve exercised every day- short but sweet. Guess I should use habitcal.
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 9 years & counting
Age 65
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
Mar/18 22.2

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.

ironchef
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Post by ironchef » Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:08 pm

Glad to hear your shoulder has improved.

On the bites thing, I went and read herbsgirl's blog. I was impressed with her thoroughness, and she covers increased bite count for people who enjoy their freggies.

oolala53
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Post by oolala53 » Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:16 pm

It's still a little too much focus on the details and weight for me. I am trying to avoid having to be that thorough! It's against my personal religion to manipulate my eating to weigh a certain amount. NO matter what short term or even long term results there are for any one individual, so far, the house wins. But, I can see weaning myself down to much less dense food at my meals over the next few months as I lose my fear of eating so little in accordance with hunger and satiety. And I might change religions one of these days...

I know that food plays a bigger role in my life than just satisfying hunger, and I'm willing to go along with that for awhile more. It's only a modern day, Western Civ kind of crime, for the most part.

Our former head custodian died last weekend. He was morbidly obese before he left work five years ago and gained since then. However, he was from a culture in which heaviness is not necessarily devalued. If he could eat with joy, he may have felt it was worth the tradeoff. It might be hard for us to imagine, but there are people in other cultures who overeat by our standards and love it. It rarely entered people's minds in Iran, or so it appeared. It's probably become an issue by now.
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 9 years & counting
Age 65
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
Mar/18 22.2

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.

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Post by osoniye » Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:14 pm

Hi Oolala,
I was just wondering if you take a multivitamin. I know sometimes that helps kids regain their appetite, not sure about adults. Just thought I'd mention it
Any luck with the exercise?
-Sonya
No Sweets, No Snacks and No Seconds, Except (Sometimes) on days that start with "S".

oolala53
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Post by oolala53 » Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:11 am

I hadn't thought about the mutlivitamin since I eat a lot of colorful freggies.

Some exercise this week. Not like I've done at times in the past, but I'm pleased with the increase in consistency.

I had almost nothing to eat today. Going with the lack of hunger. I had a bit of a rough time about 2 hours ago, but I toughed it out, and am glad I did! That's the thought I held on to. I've relented many times before and been sorry the next day. I can make a different choice another day, but I want to feel it's a choice.

I feel okay in doing this on a weekend day because I can take it as easy as I want, and I did. I'm not so willing to push it on a workday at this point.
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 9 years & counting
Age 65
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
Mar/18 22.2

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.

oolala53
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Post by oolala53 » Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:35 pm

I worte this in response to a post on the general board. It was from a blogger about her early observations on using No S. I decided it was too much of a critique to leave there, but I'll get it off my chest here.


I've been here many years now and seen so many new people all excited about these same things only to have them basically disappear as the months have gone on. Maybe they got it down so much that it wasn't even an issue anymore, but I doubt it. Almost all but the most independent of learners need handholding for quite awhile. It's more like learning to play a musical instrument. You need weekly input from a learned practitioner at least.

I think one of the hardest issues to overcome with any eating change is that it's going to get easy soon and stay easy. The odds of this are extremely slim! The exceptions skew the expectations. If people can accept that it's going to take a good year or two to get REALLY SETTLED in a new way of eating, it might make them get more realistic about what they start doing in the first place. (And even then, it isn't necessarily settled. After 4 years, I've been struggling in a way that would negate No S's beauty for many considering using it. But I've stayed in a 5-lb. range and don't really fear things getting worse, though I am annoyed.)

I realize my problems have been because I keep thinking I'm going to get peaceful with eating even less since I don't get really hungry as much as I used to. It hasn't proved true. Nothing else to do but keep on keeping on.

I am going to go back to having bigger dinners to start. I'm finally having lunches that allow me to get fairly hungry for dinner, even though I sometimes have to really hold on not to eat early even though I'm not hungry. But I see this as a life-in-between problem rather than a No S problem.
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 9 years & counting
Age 65
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
Mar/18 22.2

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.

automatedeating
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Post by automatedeating » Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:06 pm

Oolala, I started NoS looking for a way to end my mindless snacking. It worked like a charm and for many months I thought I was "over" that. Interestingly, just yesterday I had to fight my emotional eating demons. I think I lost, in that although I didn't technically overeat, my only motivation for eating was emotional. Does that make sense...sort of? Today marks 8 months on NoS for me, and it was a little bit of a shocker to feel those same old emotions telling me to stuff my face. Habits, wow, they are powerful.
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3; 8/14-24.5; 5/15-26.2; 1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6; 8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9; 3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8; 1/19-23.4; 2/19-22.7; 3/19-22.1

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Post by eschano » Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:40 pm

Hi Oolala! I think you are right in that moderate eating will never be easy all the time. However, there is one massive advantage NoS has over every other diet I know of and that is a wonderfully supportive community.

Also, because NoS is so easy to explain I have told nearly everyone in my life about it so my boyfriend reminds me of it when I want to give in, my co-workers sometimes remember and don't always offer me sweets, my friends know not to push the dessert question.

This might seem unrelated but I always believed in marriage as a way of introducing a couple to a community and making clear that you want to go the distance so that in the moments when you couldn't care less and really want out you get a supportive community that helps you work through issues instead of throwing in the towel (I'm speaking of normal issues here nothing horrendous like domestic violence and so forth). I feel my commitment with NoS is the same and this board keeps me to it and so does my immediate environment for when I want nothing but stuff my face.

May I ask, without trying to overstep: how supportive is your immediate environment? Do you think that could help in your current phase?
eschano - Vanilla rocks!

July 2012- January 2016
Started again July 2018

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BrightAngel
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Post by BrightAngel » Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:06 pm

oolala53 wrote: I've been here many years now and seen so many new people all excited about these same things
only to have them basically disappear as the months have gone on.

I think one of the hardest issues to overcome with any eating change is that it's going to get easy soon and stay easy.
The odds of this are extremely slim!

The exceptions skew the expectations.
If people can accept that it's going to take a good year or two to get REALLY SETTLED in a new way of eating,
it might make them get more realistic about what they start doing in the first place.
(And even then, it isn't necessarily settled.
After 4 years, I've been struggling in a way that would negate No S's beauty for many considering using it.
But I've stayed in a 5-lb. range and don't really fear things getting worse, though I am annoyed.)

I realize my problems have been because I keep thinking I'm going to get peaceful with eating even less
since I don't get really hungry as much as I used to. It hasn't proved true.
Nothing else to do but keep on keeping on.
Oolala, I've also found Peace with Eating-Less to be hard to come by,
and I am also often frustrated and annoyed by this truth.
Even now, at almost age 70, I still retain hope that someday it will get easier.
But, in an environment that has an abundance of readily available food.
reigning in our appetites is seldom easy, despite our knowledge, habits, and good intentions.

I so agree that there is nothing else really to do but keep on keeping on,
there are many worthwhile things in life that require an ongoing struggle,
and for many of us, eating only what our bodies need is one of them.
I am grateful for the way you generously and thoughtfully share yourself.
BrightAngel - (Dr. Collins)
See: DietHobby. com

worth it
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Post by worth it » Sat Apr 26, 2014 2:04 am

Oolala,

I have stopped and started writing this message MANY times, as I don't want to offend or hurt intentionally. But...here goes.

While I believe what you are saying is true regarding some people's lack of commitment to No S (and/or dieting) is true, I don't necessarily appreciate the lack of empathy around the human experience in this journey. In fact, I continually sense judgement and a "better than thou" attitude in many of your commentaries about this subject. It makes sense to me that you are an educator of children, not necessarily of adults, as the message is more directive than facilitative. Although it's clear that many benefit from hearing your experiences, I think we could also benefit from your understanding.

In fact, its very easy for me to understand why people get so excited about No S and also why they leave No S so quickly and I don't think it's because people expect it to be "easy". For some, No S does not provide enough "tangible" or "measurable" positive reinforcement (weight loss) initially, which is what most of us require to make a change. I believe this is why people don't last on this program, even though there are SO many other benefits that No S provides. We have been taught to see results by what we can specifically measure, not by our "feelings" alone.

One thing I can agree with, however, there is nothing to do but keep on keeping on.

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Post by lpearlmom » Sat Apr 26, 2014 5:24 am

For me I haven't veered away from noS because it's too hard but because I think deep down I just can't get on board with something that says we aren't to be trusted with food and that our bodies aren't good enough exactly the way they are. It's really a struggle trying to coincide this belief with the reality of the difficulties of being fat in this society.

Originally I thought nos was the perfect compromise between those two realities but recently my core beliefs have been too hard to ignore. In the end I don't know what will win. I wish there was a better answer.

Linda
Last edited by lpearlmom on Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
💜💜💜 Please no body or food shaming. Eyes on your own plate. 💜💜💜

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3/19-163 lbs
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oolala53
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Post by oolala53 » Sat Apr 26, 2014 5:35 am

Thanks for the feedback, everyone!

I stopped on the way home at a Chinese buffet where they charge by weight for food to go . Fine by me! I got a nice little array for under $5 and supplemented with raw veggies and some noodles I prefer at home. Then I talked a friend into taking a ride with me for some groceries. I wasn't thinking of trying to keep myself from nibbling after dinner, but it did work out that way. And it was a great way to remind myself how much better it feels psychologically to just eat my nice dinner and be done with eating.

Got in 4 minutes of HIIT. It's a little embarrassing how happy I am to have done it, but it's more than I was doing last year at the same time. I think I've done at least 4 minutes of intense work most days of the week for a few weeks. It's not much but I think I can actually feel a little springier in my step. It's enough for now.

Got two days of workshop this weekend, working towards a certification that all teachers have to get in my specialty, even if we've been doing this work for 17 years. At least one of my colleagues will be there as well. She's downright bitter about it and I don't blame her. She's has a lot more experience with the kids with the specialty issue and she is great at working with them. I"m trying to be philosophical about it. I actually liked my college classes and don't mind lectures and such. Who knows, maybe there will actually be something useful and not just pie in the sky. My biggest problem is that it means I miss a meeting with my Indian philosophy teacher and he doesn't have any more meetings scheduled for quite awhile after this weekend. Oh well.

I'll pack a lunch, but will go out with others if it looks easy. And I can have dessert!
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 9 years & counting
Age 65
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
Mar/18 22.2

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.

automatedeating
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Post by automatedeating » Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:16 pm

Oolala,
I appreciate your encouragement.
I appreciate your honesty.
I appreciate your experience.
I appreciate YOU!
:)
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3; 8/14-24.5; 5/15-26.2; 1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6; 8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9; 3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8; 1/19-23.4; 2/19-22.7; 3/19-22.1

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Post by oolala53 » Sun Apr 27, 2014 12:59 pm

I know I've written about this before, but I'm repeating myself with I think a bit more clarity that I needed to discover by writing about it again.

My appetite has decreased so much that I can feel that even my meals are emotional eating in that I"m often not hungry for them but I still have the urge/desire to eat AND after a small meal, it feels like I've overeaten. I want the experience of pleasurable eating without feeling too full! For most of my time on No S, I have been able to bypass those urges because I knew the reward of hunger and then a really pleasant eating experience was not far off. Now I don't get that reward as often and WTH has entered again. It doesn't lead to binges much but it doesn't take binges anymore to leave my body feeling a level of discomfort and discontent that I associate with my overeating days. Ah, that's the problem! Many times now it feels that I would have to eat what I consider very little food not to be overeating/emotionally eating. I haven't officially counted calories but from those counting days, I can say that I think if I let hunger decide on my meal sizes, I would have many days eating under 1,000 calories. But why should that bother me if that's all my body needs? Why am I not content enough with the rest of my life to still so much want the pleasure of more food? I thought I was over that. :(

Ultimately, I don't blame No S for this. No S can't solve all my problems, just as food can't. And I feel I am doing my best to solve all the other problems. I've just been having to face again that when it comes down to it, food is an incredible easy fix. Other ways of pleasing myself may be possible and preferable, and it isn't even necessary to be pleased all the time, but food has not lost its allure not it's downright EASE. It's a hell of lot faster, easier, cheaper, more convenient, and actually more fun to eat a package of chocolate thumbprint cookies than to do just about anything else that I have control over. Ultimately, it's less satisfying than alternatives, but it is prefrontal cortex work to have that truth rule! Or it seems so for me.
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 9 years & counting
Age 65
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
Mar/18 22.2

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.

oolala53
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Post by oolala53 » Sun Apr 27, 2014 2:24 pm

I'm trying something a little dangerous. I'm going to try to fit into a certain dress by May 27, which is prom at the high school I teach at. I kept a ravishing evening dress someone gave me years ago even though I haven't fit into it in years. It's strapless and fitted. I can pull it up and zip it to just above my waist without help. I'm not even sure how much of a gap there is above that because I can't really see back there in any kind of accurate way. I'll get a girlfriend later to help me see how much of a goal this is. I'm a little scared because this is a bit against my religion of eat-and-move-for-vitality, not for a certain body. But I'm hoping this will help me get more of a routine of exercising AND help me see that my reduced appetite is okay to live with as it stands. But not too radically. A couple of years ago, I worked out intensely for a month before I attended a dance camp and promptly sat on the couch for weeks afterwards and never got back into moving routinely again.

I've also done a dangerous thing in that I've asked an old boyfriend to take me and he said yes. It was never an easy relationship (I wanted it more than he did, though not for the best reasons-let's leave it at that for now) and it just might open old wounds, but I did it. I've got a month to change my mind. He tends not to set much store by these things so I am not concerned that he would be crushed by any means if I back out.

BTW, I also have a backup dress, in case it gets too frustrating or turns out that my rib cage has gotten bigger. It could happen!
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 9 years & counting
Age 65
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
Mar/18 22.2

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.

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Post by Diligence » Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:59 pm

oolala, I hope your dress challenge serves to help you with your overall goals. I've been thinking about your more recent eating problem. I'm not sure if I'm understanding it correctly, so please forgive me if I'm totally off. In relation to what you've mentioned, I do wonder if you might want to try a sort of bite approach--the part herbsgirl's mentioned with taking a bite every X minutes(s). I just wonder if lengthening the time it takes to eat might give you greater satisfaction in act of eating while still keeping your portions smaller in relation to your actual appetite. I've not done any sort of bite thing, so it's just a thought, and again, I might be totally off on my understanding of what you're experiencing.

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Post by lpearlmom » Tue Apr 29, 2014 5:05 pm

I think you're pretty aware of the how the dress challenge as well as exbf thing could go backfire and you're even giving yourself an out so shouldn't be a problem.

Sounds like fun--I can't remember the last time I had a reason to wear a fancy dress. :D
💜💜💜 Please no body or food shaming. Eyes on your own plate. 💜💜💜

3/14-210 lbs;
3/19-163 lbs
7/6-176 lbs









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oolala53
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Post by oolala53 » Wed Apr 30, 2014 1:11 pm

Tx, Diligence, but I'm already always the slowest eater at the table. The bite approach is too much like dieting to me, Herbsgirl had many days of eating under 500 calories a day. Many traditional dieters go through phases in which they are satisfied to eat very low calorie for periods of time. Frankly, bite counting is still in the experiment stage, in my opinion. I see maintenance as being a possible success after a minimum of two years. I"m not aware of any research that shows that the appetite-reduction effects last two years or more. Individual results will vary, but the odds have been quite consistent for nearly 150 years.

I see my problem as being more related to dissatisfaction in the rest of my life. I think I've done a pretty good job of separating eating from my problems up to now, but I'm in a slump. I don't actually consider it a crisis. I'm trying to work more from that side of things for now, since for the most part, my eating is moderate and reasonable, even if I'm not very hungry for my meals. I"m also at a reasonable BMI. Also, I have seen a rise in my binge urges as I've tried to eat very little at meals in accordance with hunger. I feel I have to be cautious in what I impose. :)

The dress thing has already backfired, at least temporarily. My rib cage has gotten bigger! Yes, it's true. I can zip the dress up over hips and waist up to the bottom of my rib cage, but the gap then becomes a very wide V. My girlfriend observer/helper and I both agreed that no amount of fat loss was going to solve the problem in a month (my time frame) or ever. It was a moderate disappointment. I'll consider taking it to a tailor, but it's not worth it to me spending a lot to fix the problem. I do already have less glamorous but suitable options that already fit and would likely be enhanced with more exercise. I've debated canning the whole thing, but there's no reason to make a definitive decision right now. I did my inside exercise and am heading out now for a brisk walk with intermittent rope jumping. I'll weigh the man-thing later. I know he's not doing much to get ready!
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Post by oolala53 » Wed Apr 30, 2014 1:39 pm

POI: A jump rope does not have to be intact to be of benefit. One of mine split in the middle, but I still get the same arm workout holding the handles and swinging the rope. And no stopping because of catches on my feet. (I actually bought a device years ago based on the same thing. It has handles but no rope and it supposedly makes a clicking sound that changes in speed according to your effort. I never actually used it. It's in a box somewhere in my house or garage. Not enough motivation to look for it, especially now that I have a cheap-and-good version!)

Our weather has turned temporarily hot, hot, hot. It will be up to 90 today where I work. Cold rooms and very hot as I change classes every hour.
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Post by lpearlmom » Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:00 pm

Oh that's so funny about the jump rope. Good for you for being practical about the dress thing. I'm sure you'll look great whatever you wear. Yeah I wouldnt worry about waiting on the ex situation either. I doubt he's starving himself to fit into his sexiest suit or anything. :wink:

As for the bite count thing I agree with ya there. It sounds kind of dramatic but I actually avoid posts re: count biting as it's kind of triggering for me.

Enjoy those workouts!

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Post by Diligence » Wed Apr 30, 2014 5:32 pm

Is there any specific way in which you think we can be an encouragement or help to you as you navigate this current situation with food, appetite, and urges? Just trying to help--not pester. :)

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Post by oolala53 » Thu May 01, 2014 4:40 am

Just having a place to get my thoughts and complaints out in the company of those who aren't into the diet madness is usually support enough, Diligence. This is just a phase. I'm pretty sure it's going to unravel. Thanks for being willing to jump in.

Had an appointment tonight for getting into the mental health services of Kaiser. It occurred to me a few months ago that I could use some coaching from a professional. Someone who helps others who are in relationships with difficult people who aren't likely to change and who aren't going to be part of the solution. It will take awhile, but I'm over thinking I HAVE to get this solved now. It's an ongoing relationship.
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Post by Strawberry Roan » Thu May 01, 2014 1:06 pm

Morning oolala,

If I might offer some non asked for advice,

don't over think all of this food thing. There are lots and lots and lots of good healthy food options out there, which eaten in the proper proportions will help to keep one healthy and at an optimal weight level. If you are not hungry - being medical issues have been ruled out - just don't eat right then. Odds are you will be hungry later, if not and you fear that you will get weak or something from lack of nutrition, eat what one would consider a "normal" healthy meal and move on.

Happy to hear that you are embracing your exercise, love the story about the jump rope :D

Sorry about the dress issue but I am certain you will look lovely in whatever you choose to wear. You are a beautiful woman ( having seen your photos ) and I hope you know that.

To your health,
Berry

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Post by oolala53 » Thu May 01, 2014 1:31 pm

I wish it were that easy. I do not fear not eating. I MISS it when I have to wait 8,10, 12, 24, 36 hours to be hungry. (That was the longest I waited and I wasn't even starved.) I try it on weekends when I more often have the option to eat on a more flexible schedule. But just because I'm not hungry doesn't mean I don't have the desire to eat. It's much like the beginning when I might have wanted a snack between meals. The desire was easier to say NO to because food was not far away. But as of now I cannot accept not knowing when I will get to have an eating experience again, so I do as you suggest, I think. I have a moderate meal. But it's not very fun, at least not like it used to be.

This is not every experience, every day. Just enough to be irritating. I'm hoping there's a pearl forming somewhere. :)
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Post by BrightAngel » Thu May 01, 2014 2:35 pm

oolala53 wrote: But just because I'm not hungry doesn't mean I don't have the desire to eat.
Oolala, so very true. Image
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Post by Strawberry Roan » Thu May 01, 2014 5:39 pm

Thanks for your reply, oolala. I just am not certain I understand your issues but I do wish you well. I wish you joy in every aspect of your life, I embrace every moment of happiness that I have been blessed with.

It seems you are aware of the problems you are having based on your earlier words
I see my problem as being more related to dissatisfaction in the rest of my life.

so my wish for you is that you achieve some satisfaction.
Berry

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Post by eschano » Fri May 02, 2014 10:19 am

Hmmm. So oolala, I think it was you who suggested that drinking lots of water enlargens your stomach, which, I would deduct from that it leads to more hunger?

Have you thought about training your stomach a little bigger by drinking more water (as you said you drink very little) so that you'll be more hungry again?

I know this is a wacky solution but might be worth a go?

Edit: oh, and I don't mean competition-eating training, just a little
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Post by oolala53 » Fri May 02, 2014 1:09 pm

Interesting! Intuitively, that sounds a little crazy. Wanting to enlarge my stomach? And yet, who knows? Though I'm not sure it's stomach size at this point that's causing the issue. And so many people say that drinking more water decreases their appetite. Maybe it helps regulate their appetite? Hmm. I hesitate because I'm pretty bad at adding behaviors, but I'm going to let this one percolate. I've never been a fan of the gotta drink 8x8, but I could work my way up a bit more. I drink about half that now.

I have had a few instances of more hunger lately. It has often been just a lucky circumstance that has diverted me at opportune times. But I'll take it for now. And I still feel that No S is the best way to navigate this new turn.
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Post by oolala53 » Sun May 18, 2014 11:32 pm

Having another anxious day over procrastination. It's okay, though. It's just part of the mix of my life. Just felt like acknowledging it. Maybe someday I'll figure it out as I feel No S pretty much helped me figure out food. It turns out there are a lot more even more uncomfortable things to me than waiting to eat or overeating and for now, I still choose to avoid them.
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 9 years & counting
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Post by samosaurus » Mon May 19, 2014 1:44 am

Sometimes when food isn't there as the go to 'block' for my emotions, I end up having to feel them - all the anxiety and everything else that pops up when I stop using cake as an emotional buffer. How kind of you to recognize your uncomfortable feelings in yourself; you have a very deep sense of awareness!
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Post by eschano » Mon May 19, 2014 10:25 am

If you do find a procrastination system please do let us know oolala! I'm certainly guilty of it :)
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Post by finallyfull » Tue May 20, 2014 2:37 pm

I love your patience and your commitment to allow anxious or otherwise uncomfortable feelings to just be and wait for, as you put it, the hope of a "pearl." That is the kind of leap of faith that can make a difference between despair and growth. Once you allow anxiety or whatever to "be" and not stuff it, you have the ability to choose to learn what it is, so you no longer treat the symptoms of something bigger.

You continue to inspire me. :)

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Post by oolala53 » Sun May 25, 2014 2:51 am

Thanks, finallyfull. :)

Well, I had blood tests done back in March. They weren't fasting results, so I hope they're still valid. I was a little worried because my total cholesterol had gone up so much from when I was 40 lbs. heavier, but I went to a calculator to tell about how my fats ratios were and here are the results:

Your Total Cholesterol of 198 is DESIRABLE
Your LDL of 85 is OPTIMAL
Your HDL of 96 is OPTIMAL
Your Triglyceride level of 85 is NORMAL

RATIOS:

Your Total Cholesterol/HDL ratio is: 2.06 - (preferably under 5.0, ideally under 3.5) IDEAL
Your HDL/LDL ratio is: 1.129 - (preferably over 0.3, ideally over 0.4) IDEAL
Your triglycerides/HDL ratio is: 0.885 - (preferably under 4, ideally under 2) IDEAL

Just as people tend to be happy when their weight is down even if it sometimes means they have lost muscle instead of just fat, I find myself wishing my cholesterol was lower, but I'm not going to freak out and try to follow some different regime since my ratios are so good. I guess eating a LOT less sugar/refined foods (but not none) is working out okay.

It will be interesting to see how things will be by next spring when I will have been exercising more regularly, as I plan to do. Hope springs eternal.
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 9 years & counting
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Post by automatedeating » Sun May 25, 2014 4:31 am

Yeah, I'll say your ratios are good! They're pretty awesome, I'd say.
And, I've actually read some studies that say for women your age, the higher your cholesterol, the better for longevity! :)
Month/Year-BMI
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Post by clarinetgal » Sun May 25, 2014 6:54 am

Your ratios look great! I'm pretty sure regular exercise helps lower cholesterol.

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Post by oolala53 » Sun Jun 01, 2014 6:25 pm

Had a pretty non-compliant week, but things feel relatively righted. Even one day on track can feel so good. Clothes still fitting fine.

I skimmed through a 40-year old book called Total Fitness in 30 Minutes a Week. It was a bit of a misnomer in that author Laurence E. Morehouse says those 30 minutes are in addition to 5 other daily rules:

(I'm probably infringing on copyright, but )
1. Turn and twist your body joints to their near-maximum range of motion.
2. Stand for a total of two hours a day.
3. Lift something unusually heavy for five seconds.
4. Get your heart rate up to 120 beats a minute for at least three minutes.
5. Burn up to three hundred calories a day in any combination of physical activity outside of 1, 2, 3, and 4.

Then the weekly three 10-minute extra bouts he recommends will give you what he calls a reserve of power for the extra demands that may come up. Anything beyond that he thinks of as being athletic training and that takes much more specificity.

What a sign of the times! While he talked of playing tennis and golf several times a week, he said the average housewife could burn her 300 calories "taking care of the house on a daily basis." He kept talking about how you could get the 5 seconds of lifting something heavy by carrying a couple of bags of groceries, as if housewives grocery shop every day! Those little ladies are the exception these days. Not many working women can talk about playing golf and tennis with their buddies.

And for weight loss, he said most people should just aim to drink one less cup of coffee with cream a day and one less scotch. No calorie counting and cutting out foods. I think he assumed people were just eating their three squares.

I wonder what he'd think now of just how indulgent people got. He died in 1995 at age 82, so he was just seeing the rise in number of overweight and obese people.

Hmm, for all his exercise and moderation, he died younger than my father. But my father was moderate for most of his life and was a postman for about 15 years after retiring from the Air Force. That's probably what helped him live so long into his retirement, though he did have a quintuple bypass a few years before he died of bone cancer. Wonder if anything he could have done would have prevented those. Less white bread? No ice cream scoop (just one) every night? Shovelglove or the equivalent? Less watching TV? He did continue to walk many days to church and back. Up until those last few years, he had a pretty healthy run. And he lived nearly 20 years longer than either of his parents had.

Procrastinating on reading student papers. I get so anxious about how poorly they do even with all the instruction we give. I just don't see them being willing to do what they need to do to fix the problems! Most of them just don't want to read more on their own and they hate to edit their work. Well, there's only so much I can do. I have to call a spade a spade.
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Post by oolala53 » Thu Jun 05, 2014 1:53 pm

Small eating fails just about every day. exercise every day this week so far.
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Post by snapdragon » Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:42 am

Interesting stuff about "total Fitness" I like reading those old books! This one at least sounds practical. About the house work... I once borrows a heart rate monitor from a friend and did housework. According to the hrm I burned about 250 calories in an hour of moderate to vigorous housework. Sometimes that motivates me to get stuff done around the house. I hope your doing well and have an enjoyable summer ahead of you.
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Post by oolala53 » Fri Jun 06, 2014 5:46 pm

Thanks, snap! I definitely toy with the idea of a pedometer. It wouldn't tell me how much I burn, but it might motivate me to get more house and garden work done because I'd get to see how steps add up. However, it might make be resent not getting credit for some of the harder garden work that doesn't use steps!

I've been listening to The Willpower Instinct. It is SO fascinating and seems to explain so much. Don't know if I'll apply it. :oops:

I'm disappointed that the local library system doesn't have a print copy. There are so many spots I want to go back to. I may have to actually buy it!
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 9 years & counting
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Post by automatedeating » Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:35 pm

I enjoyed that book very much, Oolala. Glad you are reading/listening to it. :)
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Post by idontknow » Sat Jun 07, 2014 7:09 am

I loved that book too, but never managed to apply any of it. Not sure why...
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Post by oolala53 » Sat Jun 07, 2014 7:06 pm

Probably for the same reason I used to read diet books while eating brownies. It's more fun to fantasize about how great things will be when we do everything we're supposed to than to actually do it! I'm blaming it on the crafty reward center.

But it could also mean some things just aren't important enough to change. Maybe some things are okay as they are. Until they aren't.
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Post by eschano » Tue Jun 10, 2014 3:47 pm

oolala53 wrote:Probably for the same reason I used to read diet books while eating brownies.
This cracked me up! I do the same!
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Post by lpearlmom » Wed Jun 11, 2014 2:59 am

Hehe me too! I still miss those moments in a strange way. So full of hope & yet so free of pain (yet to come).
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Post by oolala53 » Sun Jun 15, 2014 8:49 pm

I was bolstered once reading the blog of a young woman (who seems to have conquered her obesity) that even though she has been comfortably slim for several years, she sometimes still misses overeating. I can't remember the details but it reminded me of a time I thought I would have a little business of candy machines in little markets and shops, and I bought candy in bulk. I would plunge my hand into the huge bag of Swedish mints and eat tons of them at night. If it didn't make me feel so cruddy later, and didn't lead to such weight gain, it would have been fun! I spent a long time not being able to give up such habits because I resented that there were thin people who could pretty much eat great amounts and not get fat. I realize now they are the minority, and besides. if they actually did start to get fat, they'd give up that habit. Plus, I just don't want to feel cruddy later, and I can get too full on a LOT less food these days. Honestly, if I could eat a lot, not get uncomfortably full, and stay at the same weight, I would. But I don't long for it anymore. I'd just like to get legitimately hungry more often!

Ate only one real meal yesterday because of lack of hunger. Haven't had anything today yet for the same reason. It's not fun, though. But I'm determined to give myself the experience of being hungry for my meals this weekend. I am going to have a cup of mocha with chia seeds soon. (I had that yesterday around 10 a.m. and then didn't eat dinner until around 7. Even then I wasn't starved, but I had been to a dance class during which I felt shaky at times, so I ate. Plus, I had seen other people eating pizza at a spot right near where I parked my car, and it looked so good! That's what I had. Actually, I ate half of the slice, a bowl of high fiber cereal with flax milk, a carrot, spring leaf mix with Chinese dressing, and an apricot.)

I've invited a friend for supper around 6. I'm hoping if I'm still not hungry then, she will be willing to just blab for another hour. By 7, I will eat with her no matter what. But I don't know if she'll say yes. She's in a bit of a melancholic state. When I asked her what she might do for food the rest of the day, she said she can't even think that far. She had Kentucky Fried Chicken at 9 pm last night, not even realizing it was so late. It was as if today she couldn't imagine that she might get hungry again later. She's not dieting, but she beats herself up if she has a mini-bean burrito at a local shop instead of cooking for herself, and beats herself up for not grocery shopping, etc. She has similar issues with wanting to keep her house more straightened up and with having a lot of stuff in her house and garage that she knows she doesn't need, but doesn't want to face having to make decisions about. I've offered to trade help with her regarding this many many times, but she just gets quiet. Unfortunately, she does not see our being a team as much I as I long for us to be. She is the ONLY person in my life I could ask for the level of interaction I'd like. However, this reminds me that there is another person who could trade this "service" with me on a more limited basis. I'm going to go look her number up now.
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 9 years & counting
Age 65
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Post by ironchef » Mon Jun 16, 2014 3:48 am

Oh, oolala, this is one of those times that I'm frustrated I live on the other side of the world - I would come garage diving in a heartbeat! Decluttering with a friend (my stuff, their stuff, other people's stuff, doesn't matter) is one of my favourite things.

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Post by oolala53 » Mon Jun 16, 2014 5:54 am

Oh, man! What an offer, ironchef! I'd take you up on it in a shot.

My friend did come over for dinner. I had been to an open house and was given a couple of cookies baked by a local bakery, so we got to have dessert! I made a meal salad with turkey, yellow zucchini, mushrooms, and cranberries served over spring mix and tomatoes. She said she had had a bagel at 5, which I thought was a little odd, but she opted for no starch while I had a wrap. We looked at real estate. Didn't find anything she liked, but it would be a bit of a miracle for her to find what she wants for the price she wants. She says she's not really in the mental state to downsize now anyway. I like looking at houses, though I'm not in a position to buy in my area.
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 9 years & counting
Age 65
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
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Post by clarinetgal » Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:23 am

I'm glad your friend was able to come over. Your salad sounds good.

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Post by oolala53 » Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:59 am

Because I was trying to eat only from hunger today, I decided to track what I ate. If my calculations were right, I ate 634 calories, and I wasn't even really starved by the time I had dinner. Believe me, I'd much rather have a bigger appetite and get to eat more! But it's not very satisfying to me to have little appetite and eat much more, either, so I'm experimenting with eating very little on weekends.

BTW, my tracker also shows the ratio of fat, protein, and carbs in the day's calories. My ratios almost exactly matched the ideal profile the site I use recommends. That was without my planning specifically beforehand. It was just a habit I developed by using principles combined from The Zone Diet, Volumetrics, The 40/30/30 Diet, and The Omega Plan. They recommend less protein and more carbs. If I hadn't had the cookie for dessert, it probably would have been 40/30/30. I don't always aim for that, but they are nice meals.

I haven't tracked for a few years.
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 9 years & counting
Age 65
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
Mar/18 22.2

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.

middleager
Posts: 90
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:13 pm
Location: New Zealand

Post by middleager » Mon Jun 16, 2014 10:20 am

That's an interesting idea eating totally to hunger in the weekends. What if you have a wave of hunger and then by the time you get to food it is gone? Do you still eat? It doesn' t sound like you are eating very much.

i might try it next weekend. Monday night now.
Longest run so far: 22 days

automatedeating
Posts: 3854
Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2013 2:16 pm

Post by automatedeating » Mon Jun 16, 2014 1:28 pm

Oolala, sometimes I'm not hungry for dinner on Saturday and Sunday nights. It seems by that time of day the snacky-tasty monster is out of my system and dinner just doesn't sound that appealing.
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3; 8/14-24.5; 5/15-26.2; 1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6; 8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9; 3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8; 1/19-23.4; 2/19-22.7; 3/19-22.1

oolala53
Posts: 9635
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:46 am
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Post by oolala53 » Wed Jun 18, 2014 6:22 am

middleager, it hardly ever takes me very long to get to food by the time I get hungry!

I had to get my teeth cleaned today. I thought I was going to brunch with a friend not long afterwards, so I didn't have breakfast. Then the meal got pushed back, so I lunch around 12:30 p.m. The meal choices were very rich! But I made the best of it. :lol: I was certainly not hungry by 7 p.m. so I had a big vegetable salad and some grapes, plus a cup of flax milk hot cocoa. I wish I had been hungry for a steak, but what are you gonna do?
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 9 years & counting
Age 65
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
Mar/18 22.2

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.

finallyfull
Posts: 354
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 6:10 pm

Post by finallyfull » Wed Jun 18, 2014 12:08 pm

oolala I have a question for you, which relates to my (mostly) going to 7 days of No S (I'm trying to really make Sometimes mean Sometimes, not every S):

I know you slowly stopped having wild S days, as you reported during your journey. My question is, IS there really a time when anyone just regularly doesn't WANT to eat Ses, or does the decision come first? I know I often don't think about food, sure, but not often enough. Even a year and a half into No S I still occasionally want to snack between meals on N days, though I rarely give in. But it's still a decision, a discipline, a habit I'm building because I"m DOING it. So now that I see that WTH weekends are both annoying, unsatisfying and persistent, I have decided to DECIDE to proactively taper them. So far so good, about 5 weeks in. But what I'm wondering from you is this: did you really just change into someone who wanted less food on the weekends, or did you decide it was time? (Or, as in my case, was it kind of both, but seemed to need a "decision" to happen?)

Thank you, o wise one.

oolala53
Posts: 9635
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:46 am
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Post by oolala53 » Wed Jun 18, 2014 4:55 pm

I'm answering on your thread. The short answer is no, it did not happen automatically, and 4.5 years in, I still have to use effort, but that has more to do with problems in the rest of my life, not No S. But tolerating the urges is now the default, rather than eating. If I thought eating would make the rest of my life go better, I'd do it! But I did it for a long time, and I finally saw it didn't help. Eating well doesn't make a person happy on its own, but it sure makes it harder if she doesn't eat well.
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 9 years & counting
Age 65
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
Mar/18 22.2

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.

oolala53
Posts: 9635
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:46 am
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Post by oolala53 » Sun Jun 22, 2014 4:24 am

Was on the road by 6:50 a.m., but had wanted to leave by 6. Brought some odds and ends from the fridge, mostly freggies. Those and mocha was all I wanted until I arrived. Very tired of sitting. Was I ever ready for dinner at 5, though! Had skreeeeumpshus (!) Indian food. Thank you, Bay Area! Then fresh cherries and a LOT of Hershey's kisses. Very nice.

The friend I'm visiting injured himself about a year ago and thought he was recovered when I visited last July. We went for long walks at his behest, though I had no problem with that, but he was not healed enough and ended up on crutches for a few months in the ensuing year. Still not recovered so we had to take it easy. I'm too tired to make up for it now, and I don't want to be making any noise, anyway. I didn't sleep much last night; hope my body lets me make up for it tonight, but there is no telling. My will and desire doesn't seem to have much to do with it.
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 9 years & counting
Age 65
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
Mar/18 22.2

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.

oolala53
Posts: 9635
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:46 am
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Post by oolala53 » Tue Jun 24, 2014 9:48 pm

I don't know if obxervers of my thread have seen the thread on "fantastic set of articles," but it has helped me reflect on my mocha habit and reinforces what I've come to think about eating starches. I don't usually like to give too much attention to the deluge of contradictory health information, but Dr. Fung seems worthy of rational attention, though he can be a little frantic at moments. His claim that the body has no hormones to help provide the sense of satiety for starchy-grainy or refined sugar carbs, as it does for protein and fat, helped me see why my slow decrease of those has seemed to stand me in good stead over the years. He is not actually a fan of carbs, but says we would never have developed our diabesity problem if we consistently "fasted" for five hours between meals with carbs. Doing this allows the body to flush them out, or something. For all my years on No S, I have continued a habit of stevia mocha between meals several days a week. I just enjoy it so much!

I also sometimes allow myself to eat dinner 4 hours after lunch because I get a sense of anxiety, not hunger, that is very irritating. But I now have some issues with not getting hungry yet desiring food, so I've been trying to tweak, yet with very poor results. After vacation, I plan to start weaning myself off the between meal drinks. Since I also aspire for spiritual reasons to keep seeing if I can greatly decrease animal flesh--most attempts have led to backlash-, I will start getting myself psychologically ready to try that again, and be more mindful of replacing the flesh with good fats rather than double starch.
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 9 years & counting
Age 65
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
Mar/18 22.2

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.

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