Chani8's Dauntless Thread

Counting carbs/calories is a drag. Obsessive scale stepping is a recipe for despair. If you want to count something, "days on habit" is a much better metric. Checking off days on a calendar would do just fine, but if you do it here you get accountability and support. Here's how. Start a new topic in this forum called (say) "Your Name Daily Check In." Then every N day post a "reply" to that topic as to whether you stayed on habit. A simple "<font color="green">SUCCESS</font>" or "<font color="red">FAILURE</font>" (or your preferred euphemism if that's too harsh) is sufficient, but obviously you're welcome to write more if you want. On S-days just register that you're taking an S-day. You don't have to do this forever, just until you're confident you've built the habit. Feel free to check in weekly or monthly or sporadically instead of daily. Feel free also to track other habits besides No-s (I'm keeping this forum under No-s because that's what the vast majority are using it for). See also my <a href="/habitcal/">HabitCal</a> tool for another more formal (and perhaps complementary) way to track habits.

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Post by automatedeating » Fri Jan 31, 2014 2:44 pm

How did you get your daughter to be such an enthusiastic cook? That's great, and I agree with jw that that menu sounds fantastic!
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8/13-26.3; 8/14-24.5; 5/15-26.2; 1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6; 8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9; 3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8; 1/19-23.4; 2/19-22.7; 3/19-22.1

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Post by chani8 » Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:30 pm

I've got a busy week and when I'm not at appts, I'm holding a baby so it's hard to type. Oh well.

I've felt a little down today. Maybe I'm just tired. My stomach was hurting, which doesn't help. Not enough exercise doesn't help, either.

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Post by automatedeating » Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:32 pm

Having a new little one come into the house has got to take an emotional toll on you, even if it is exciting and he is adorable. :)

Hopefully you'll adjust soon. Hope your stomach feels better soon, too!
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3; 8/14-24.5; 5/15-26.2; 1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6; 8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9; 3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8; 1/19-23.4; 2/19-22.7; 3/19-22.1

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Post by chani8 » Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:44 pm

Thanks Auto, I needed that. <tears> It has been emotional, actually. I better run to bed this minute and try to get some sleep. Hugs to you!!

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Post by jw » Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:21 am

chani, you're so kind to look in and post on my thread when you literally have both hands full! Hope you wake refreshed and feeling better!
"The second you overcomplicate it is the second it becomes the thing for which it is a corrective." -- El Fug

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Post by chani8 » Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:13 pm

I'm kind of stuck sitting so I plant myself in front of the computer so that I have things to read, but I find it hard to type one-handed. lol

Looks like I'm really going to be busy. Getting another baby tomorrow. So, I may be reading your updates but not typing much. Consider yourselves cheered on by me despite my silence. :)

I'm doing well on the No S and my plans for my next Yes S are to choose baked carrot chips instead of popcorn, because I don't get much enjoyment out of the greasy popcorn and want to save my calories for fruit and dried fruit, instead.

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Post by eschano » Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:45 pm

Sounds like you have it figured out :) Mmh, dried fruit. Only two and a half N days to go and you'll have your hands full so snacking would be difficult anyways.
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Post by chani8 » Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:19 pm

10pm here and everyone is in bed. Why am I still up? Oh, I want to start my sourdough bread!

Eschano, you're funny! And so right. No way to snack!

These babies seem to hold me down in my chair so I can't get up and do anything. I go from changing diapers to feeding to burping, which leads to cuddling, and there I am, stuck in my chair again. lol

It's a good life! And if I want good sourdough, I better go do it!!

Signing in for a successful No S day and 14 minutes of going up 598 stairs with an increase from a 5 to a 7 kilo backpack. Ooo awww!

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Post by lpearlmom » Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:41 pm

Wow another baby! You're doing so well with everything on top of babies to take care of!!

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Post by chani8 » Thu Feb 06, 2014 6:26 pm

The new/next baby isn't coming until next week, so I'll treasure this extra time while I have it.

The sourdough is raising so slowly since it's so cold here. Not sure what to do. If I should stay up late, or punch it down and finish it tomorrow, or not punch it down and get up really early to deal with it.

I'm fighting off the flu!! Ugh!

My Yes S days start tomorrow! Hurray! Not sure how to enjoy them. We bought strawberries, so maybe I'll drizzle them with chocolate for a fancy dessert. I'm also considering making something fun for snack time, like date bars. Is that too many sweet treats, though? What is healthier, olive oil popped popcorn or oatmeal date bars? Such tough decisions. lol

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Post by chani8 » Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:59 am

Got sleep and feel way better.

DH wanted popcorn, so I'm chomping on some now. I've been eating nonstop today. ugh. Partly from stress, mostly from a sense of entitlement. Why?!

Last minute guests are coming, people I've never met, as part of some american student pre-college thing. At least they'll speak english. Hope it goes well. Just for dinner tonight. Added quinoa to the menu. Hope they like my cooking.

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Post by jw » Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:13 pm

It's an S Day, you've had a very full week and no signs of things settling down any time soon -- I'd say you are entitled to a little popcorn. Or a lot!
"The second you overcomplicate it is the second it becomes the thing for which it is a corrective." -- El Fug

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Post by chani8 » Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:44 pm

Thanks jw! :)

The guests were two very nice young men and I'm glad we had them over. They ate nicely and one was a health nut, too, so the quinoa went over fine.
The strawberries were so sweet that I just served them straight up. Yum.

I totally over ate these two Yes S days. I suffered for it too. Tummy ached last night, even though we took a walk. And today we took a four hour walk and still, my tummy hurt. And I kept on eating. Crazy.

Here's what I ate:
Yesterday dinner was sourdough bread, curry chicken, zucchini, quinoa, strawberries, dates, almonds.
Today:
Breakfast - hazelnuts and coffee
Lunch - sourdough bread, beef with carrots, peppers, and chickpeas, side of quinoa, and figs for dessert.
Snacks - almonds, orange, 1 piece of 85% chocolate, hot chocolate.
Dinner - more bread, jelly, cottage cheese, dates.

Sounds like it should've been reasonable but I just ate too much of everything. I had trouble eating slowly, too. That could very well be the biggest problem and where the solution lies, eating slowly. It's just so hard sometimes. Just shows me that I still have a troubled relationship with food.

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Post by MamieTamar » Sat Feb 08, 2014 9:19 pm

Hi Chani, where do you find 85% chocolate in Israël? I've never been able to find more than 60% there. Also, where do you find coconut milk with a decent hekhsher ? Or do you maybe import everything ?
My body is like breakfast, lunch, and dinner. I don't think about it, I just have it. (Arnold Schwarzenegger)

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Post by automatedeating » Sat Feb 08, 2014 9:49 pm

A 4-hour walk? You are a she-warrior, Chani! ;)
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Post by chani8 » Sun Feb 09, 2014 5:46 am

Hi Tamar! The chocolate and coconut milk are both available at the grocery store. When were you here last? In the last few years we've been able to get everything. Well, except hot tamale candies. lol My Aroya-D coconut milk has a bdatz London hechsher.

Thanks auto! We walked over to visit with friends, which was already a big walk, and they wanted to walk out to the lake. So it was great! My tummy feels way better today. It probably just knows I'm not going to abuse it today. lol

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Post by MamieTamar » Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:10 am

I was there last a fortnight ago and I'll be there again in a week's time, and I've never seen anything of the sort at the grocery store. Whereabouts do you live ?
My body is like breakfast, lunch, and dinner. I don't think about it, I just have it. (Arnold Schwarzenegger)

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Post by chani8 » Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:03 am

Wow, you're coming to Israel!!! I live in the darom, near beer sheva. Where will you be?

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Post by MamieTamar » Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:27 am

When we are there, we live in Jerusalem, Bayit Vegan. But my first contact with Israel more than 40 years ago was in a kibbutz near Beercheva...
My body is like breakfast, lunch, and dinner. I don't think about it, I just have it. (Arnold Schwarzenegger)

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Post by chani8 » Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:41 pm

A good No S day yesterday and so far today.

I'm having a weird numbing in my arms and hands, and not sure if it's a reaction to something I'm eating or from doing pushups. Hard to tell. I took nettle during my period and it really helped, so I started taking it everyday. Now I'm thinking it may be too much on my system. So I'm stopping it, and I'll save it for use for during my period. I feel a tightness in the wrists, so it really could be from the pushups. That's what I get for slacking and letting my wrists get out of shape. So cutting nettle, taking it easy on pushups. Hoping for the best.

I was supposed to be getting a new baby today. It's after 3pm and no one has called me. It seems I'm the last one to be informed about what's going on, and I could get just a 1/2 hour notice that indeed the baby is on the way. I'm not complaining, just letting off some pent up stress here.

What does this have to do with No S dieting? Nothing. Just needed a place to vent. If I complain here, I complain less IRL (in real life).

No S Diet

breakfast - hazelnuts, 1 whole lovely precious organic egg, homemade kimchi, black olives.
lunch - salad and avocado, vegetable soup, dates.
dinner - edited: tuna steak, cabbage, avocado, yogurt with nuts, raisins, berries. And two small dates.

No Sitting

40 minute morning walk with a new friend.
Upper body exercises at public park on gym equipment.
Standing at computer.
eta - pushups

No Stressing

Took a nap.
Vented here. ;)
Reading "The Feeling Good Book" by Dr Burns.
Breathing deeply.
Last edited by chani8 on Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by jw » Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:50 pm

Is that the cognitive therapy self-help book? I was trying to think of that title a while back. It's amazingly helpful for attitude adjustments!

I also tend to go on in my check-in about lots of non-No-S topics, chani! There's only so much we can say about eating patterns once they have settled down, and I don't record my food because it feels too diet-y. But I have become attached to the forum.

All of which is the long way around to say, bring on the digressions and vents! I hope the baby has arrived safely --
"The second you overcomplicate it is the second it becomes the thing for which it is a corrective." -- El Fug

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Post by automatedeating » Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:39 pm

And of course I'm a big fan of your digressions, Chani! :)

No stressing, nice addition!
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8/13-26.3; 8/14-24.5; 5/15-26.2; 1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6; 8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9; 3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8; 1/19-23.4; 2/19-22.7; 3/19-22.1

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Post by chani8 » Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:25 pm

Well, it's the end of the work day here and no baby. That's fine, as I have two here to keep me plenty busy.

Yes, JW, it is cognitive therapy. I don't think I got this far in the book when I read it the first time. I just got to the topic of anger. Anyway, I have it on my kindle and it's so annoying to not be able to see his charts very well. I think I may need to buy the book. I bought it in Hebrew for my teens, actually, but I'd like a copy for myself.

Auto, thanks for your support!

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Post by MJ7910 » Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:10 pm

chani8 wrote:It's really nice to meet you No S'ers. It was kind of lonely on MFP, being the only No S'er.

I got my Dragon Tamer exercises in! 14 hard minutes, and I think the Dragon won! lol
this is exactly why i dont' do mfp anymore. i used to and no one really wants to hear anything except for how few calories they eat and congratulating each other for their deprivation. i really don't get on there too much anymore except to just tell everyone how great NoS is going. i think they dont' care too much because they are in deprivation land.
Current BMI: 22.9. Height: 5'4.5"
Highest BMI: 25.5 in August 2011.
Lowest adult BMI: 20.8 in February 2012.

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Post by chani8 » Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:39 pm

Hi MJ! I'm still doing MFP but this group here has helped me in very big ways to stabilize and normalize eating - helping me learn how to eat and enjoy. Counting cals is all about numbers, and the food is just a calculation, a mathematical equation. The No S Diet is teaching me appreciation. I am still observing myself (counting cals), watching to see if I will learn balance and eventually lose my unhealthy habits like binging, eating out of stress, snacking from boredom or impulsivity. I have no intuitive eating ability, so I think if I don't count cals, I'll overeat. I'm pretty convinced that without understanding calories the No S Diet falls short for short and/or sedentary people who have no idea how many cals they are eating. If I ate what I wanted, even in one portion, I'd be eating way too many cals even for maintenance. A nice bowl of rice with stir fried veggies would be half my cals for the day, for example. How would anyone on the No S Diet know that if they never counted cals or calculated how many cals they personally need to lose/maintain? Anyway, I say that to you to explain why I am still committed to MFP. Like Herbsgirl figured out, for some people, the No S diet is not enough. Even Reinhard mentions this.

Which brings me to agreeing with Herbsgirl on the subject of modifying Yes S days. I'm thinking that I will try to put a calorie limit on myself for the next weekend. Overeating is just hurting my stomach too much. There has to be a solution. I tried snacking with a promise to myself that I would snack instead of taking seconds, but it didn't work. At the meals, I piled plate after plate and kept on stuffing more and more in. And snacked. Crazy. Or maybe I'll count bites on the weekend. That might actually be fun/funny. After 100 bites I've got to stop? It would be an improvement.

Anyway, excuse me if I sound grumpy. My tummy is bothering me now, after a really great dinner. So.not.fair. Why can't my tummy work like it should?! It bloats up so big and hard that I'm waiting for the alien to pop out of it. Did I not chew slowly enough?! Ugh!!

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Post by automatedeating » Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:13 pm

sorry you're not feeling well, Chani. :(
Hope you feel better tomorrow.
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Post by eschano » Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:20 am

chani8 wrote:What does this have to do with No S dieting? Nothing. Just needed a place to vent. If I complain here, I complain less IRL (in real life).
Hi Chani, this brightened my day by making me laugh :) You have a great check-in and part of why I love this forum is because we get to know the people behind their usernames and what wonderful people they are!
eschano - Vanilla rocks!

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Post by lpearlmom » Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:26 pm

hope your tummy troubles go away soon!

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Last edited by lpearlmom on Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by chani8 » Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:39 pm

Thanks eschano!

Auto, I'm indeed feeling better today.

I've been researching digestion and making plans on how to heal.

I chewed my food better today and it helped a lot.

I think maybe eating big meals is part of the problem. My plate is too big. lol (I use a virtual plate because I eat out of a bowl or two, usually.)

I didn't count my cals until the end of the day today, and came in way under my daily goal. It was becauses I didn't eat all the nuts that I usually eat. I read that nuts can cause inflammation in people with digestion problems, so I'm trying to eat olives in place of so many nuts. Apparently, black olives are way lower in cals than nuts.

For tomorrow, I need to think how to add some calories to my meals without adding more bulk. Quality not quantity, I guess.

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Post by chani8 » Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:17 pm

Linda, there is no question that the No S diet is sanity! It's exactly what I need and I hope to one day be able to let go of the calorie counting. I don't think calorie counting is even the key here, as much as knowing what foods are high in calories if a person is having problems losing. Even the opposite, knowing how much is in foods in order to stop losing. For example, my husband has lost a lot of weight and he is a natural No S eater. And if not for monitoring his calories, he'd get too thin. He was eating the same diet foods and even quantities as me, which means he was eating almost 1000 cals less than he needs. I encouraged him to log his cals for a few days and he finally 'got it' and now adds healthy fats to his plate and takes bigger portions.

I understand how you'd be frustrated with dieting if you've been struggling since you were a kid. I think I'm still in shock about calories, as I truly had no idea about cals until just over a year ago. I grew up on a low fat diet and anything labelled low-fat was in. Who knew that things like pretzels and rice were so calorie dense? I really didn't know.

That's all. I truly support everyone here on their individual journeys. I'm not trying to push my POV on anyone. We all gotta do whats best for ourselves.

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Post by lpearlmom » Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:31 pm

Thanks chani for sharing your perspective. (I was worried I upset you so moved my post to my thread. )

I do think it's helpful to have a general idea of how many calories are in different foods. If I'm choosing between two foods that are equally appealing and one has a ton of more calories, it makes sense to just choose the lower calorie one. But I do think it's good to trust your body to know what it needs at some point.

I think it's important we all support each others different journeys so I definitely support whatever you choose.

Linda :)
πŸ’œπŸ’œπŸ’œ Please no body or food shaming. Eyes on your own plate. πŸ’œπŸ’œπŸ’œ

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3/19-163 lbs
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Post by jw » Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:46 pm

Chani, when I first started, I did a rough calorie count for my meal "templates" (breakfast and lunch are pretty much the same every day) and realized that by eliminating snacks and seconds, I should be able to easily lose weight on No S. After that, I never counted again -- and I lost a pound a week for 20 weeks. Now things have slowed down considerably but it's so nice to let go and at the same time know that that doesn't mean I will gain or get out of control! It's not only sane, it's also a secure place to be! Glad we're all in it together!
"The second you overcomplicate it is the second it becomes the thing for which it is a corrective." -- El Fug

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Post by automatedeating » Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:42 pm

Chani, I bet you are taking care of two babies right now?! Wow, I bet you are busy. If you are able to read this, I'm sending smiles your way!
:D 8) :wink: :P
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Post by jw » Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:30 am

I was just thinking the same -- we haven't heard from you, so you must have both hands so full you can't type! Thinking of you and all your little ones! :)
"The second you overcomplicate it is the second it becomes the thing for which it is a corrective." -- El Fug

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Post by chani8 » Sun Feb 16, 2014 6:45 am

You two are so sweet to pop by even though I've been silent. I've been here reading and following your threads, but my hands are too full with the newborn to type. I'm actually already hands full with two babies, but the third one never came.

I had two very good Yes S days - going lite on Seconds and my only Snack was a banana. I did indulge in a few extra dates for my Sweet desserts.

I wish I could say I did well because of self control, but it was actually because of tummy trouble. I had a rough last week with "leaky gut" symptoms which I'm certain are being caused by not digesting food well enough. So I'm trying a strict healing diet called the AIP Paleo diet. Which means weaning myself off of eggs, nuts, seeds, dairy and nightshades. Their absence from my diet should allow for some healing while I work at increasing digestion. When digestion is more normal, I can introduce those foods back in slowly. So far, as I wean off slowly, I think my biggest issues are with digesting nuts (I was eating so many!) and nightshades.

So, the big question is, what am I doing to increase digestion? My DH came up with the idea to google acidic foods, and then he exclaimed, "Coffee!" So I tried drinking coffee with my meal, and by golly it worked. The next meal with coffee didn't work, but I was eating tehina and yogurt, both hard on digestion.

After more googling, I've found more ideas. It seems that fresh garlic does a really good job helping digestion, and it's not as controversial health wise as coffee. I ate a lot of garlic with my Yes S meals, and so far so good. So. for now, wish me luck with the garlic. I would certainly prefer coffee, though. lol

Which reminds me that I learned an interesting fact about cortisol. One benefit of coffee is that it has caffeine, and caffeine raises adrenaline which raises cortisol. Cortisol aids digestion! Exercise also raises cortisol, which is awesome to me for two reasons: I recently learned that a great jewish sage of many years ago, the Rambam, recommended exercise before eating, which I had thought was backwards because studies show that exercise after eating aids digestion. I've definitely found that exercising after eating helps me, so now I'm going to try adding in a bit of exercise as an appetizer., too.

And I typed all this with one hand while burping the baby! He fell asleep, so off I go to get some things done - like get dressed for the day. Sitting around in pajamas makes me lazy. Have a great day! I really needed your checking in on me, btw, as I was feeling a bit isolated and lonely.

Cheers to garlic!

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Post by chani8 » Sun Feb 16, 2014 6:45 pm

A great no s day!

Breakfast:
Dried black olives and dandelion tea with coconut cream.
Chicken bone broth with cabbage.
Half an avocado.
Coffee, black.

Lunch:
Out shopping and I bought a few things for lunch, hoping to eat them in my car. The first thing I opened, the olives, spilled all over me, so then the cod liver in oil and beet salad didn't look so appetizing as I imagined how they'd look on my skirt. So I gave up on being creative and just ate the roasted chicken quarter (with fresh garlic, of course). It was yum. I ate the skin, too. lol

Dinner:
Dandelion tea with coconut milk
1/2 banana
Homemade sourdough bread with 1/2 an avocado and fresh garlic.
Zucchini and carrots in chicken broth.

Overall a very satisfying day, despite these restrictions. Shopping was fun and I feel like a rich woman now that I have so much food in the house. I bought organic beets and carrots, avocado, oranges, bananas, purple cabbage, butternut squash, and two kinds of dates. Couldn't find anymore organic garlic, so bought a ton of non-organic to get me through the week.
I bought more organic coffee, too. ;)

I am already feeling way better tummy-wise. No bloating, no tingling in my extremities. Still burping, sorry to say, but not as much.

Oh, I walked before and after lunch, since I was shopping. And I jumped 100 jump ropes before dinner. Now I'm holding the baby, but hope to get in some more exercise tonight.

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Post by automatedeating » Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:51 am

So glad you are feeling better, Chani! I'm sure you're grateful for every tummy-good day.

My sister-in-law sent me a picture of her foster baby today. Adorable, adorable. I can't wait to meet the little one. They will be getting a second foster child in the summer (bringing their total to 8 kiddos). :)

Hope you have a great week. Even if you're too busy to type a check-in, know that we are thinking of you.
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Post by lpearlmom » Mon Feb 17, 2014 6:22 am

Glad your tummy is feeling a bit better chani! Good for you for brainstorming w your DH. I'm sure your persistence will pay off and you'll find a good solution to your issues.

Btw, so cool that you proposed to your DH. I probably should have done that as it took him 9yrs to finally get around to it! Where in Sedona did the happy moment transpire??

Snuggle the baby for me!!!

Linda :)
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Post by chani8 » Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:32 am

9 years, Linda?! That's one secure fellow.

DH and I were driving away from Sedona, in my car, so there isn't an exact location. He was working in Sedona at the time, at a Ranch for Autistic men. I was visiting him, and had come down from Denver where the Army had me stationed (at the air force base there), and I asked him to quit his job and join me in Denver. He asked me if that meant I was proposing marriage to him, and shocked, I said I was. From then on he told everyone that I was the one who proposed, and even I believed him, but now that I tell the story . . .

Baby boy and I snuggled in the direct sun this morning, getting our D-rays. I always feel so much better after getting some sun. He liked it too - maybe has to do with the fact that his name means 'light' (Ohr).

I can't seem to resist drinking coffee, so I'm trying it after the food is in my tummy, taking it black and a very small amount. My DS(14y) told me that my breath smelled like garlic, and that was this morning before eating. I was bummed. DH reassured me that it didn't bother him 'so much' and then he gave me a kiss on my forehead. lol Oh well, cheers to garlic. My tummy is working better, not 100%, but definitely better.

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Post by jw » Mon Feb 17, 2014 6:38 pm

Glad you're feeling a little better, chani -- it's too bad when something as natural as eating causes problems :(

Your morning in the sun cheered me up, too, just reading about it! Plenty of sun here, but it was below zero when I left the house, so no sun baths for me.
"The second you overcomplicate it is the second it becomes the thing for which it is a corrective." -- El Fug

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Post by lpearlmom » Mon Feb 17, 2014 6:51 pm

That's a great story Chani!! 9 yrs is a long time but we were relatively young when we met (20 & 22) and had a couple years of drama--breaking up, getting back together etc... Then he decided to go to med school & felt weird about getting married when his parents were still supporting him. Finally in the last year of med school he proposed & the rest is history!

Sounds like you shared a lovely moment in the sunshine with the baby. So sweet & reminds me to get my daily dose!

Btw, since you are so wise about kid-related stuff, was wondering if you had any advice on dealing w sibling fighting. Some days it feels like my girls fight from the time the wake up to the time the go to bed. I really don't know how to handle it. I've tried different approaches but in the end I usually wind up yelling. Of course, I know this isn't helpful but at the end of my rope.

No worries about getting back to me soon as I know you have your hands quite full (literally ) but just curious about your thoughts (or anyone else's ) thoughts on the matter are.

Linda :)
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Post by automatedeating » Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:42 pm

Hey, Linda, since Chani has her arms full, I'll start off this conversation.
I have noticed that my boys get along best when they feel like it's them against us. I know that sounds kind of bad, but I see it play out over and over again. If I say something like, "The next kid that cries means both kids go to bed early!" all of a sudden they are all conspiratorial to avoid getting in trouble. If, on the other hand, I say, "If you make your brother cry one more time you are going to your room!" then the fighting continues as each kid tries to provoke the other one to get in trouble first.

I think I read something to this effect in Siblings without Rivalry (a book by the same people that wrote How to Talk So Kids Will Listen....). So, if they are ever driving me bonkers with their fighting, I instantly go after them both. Before I know it, they are giggling behind my back (at my expense) but getting along beautifully! LOL, I suppose my next post will be, And now how do I get them to stop giggling behind my back? :roll:
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Post by jw » Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:59 pm

That sounds right, auto! I am not a mom, but I have taken care of friends' kids and I notice the kids get along great for days on end until Mama shows up. Then all hell breaks loose! A lot of that fighting seems to be done with one eye on Mom to see how she'll handle it, to act out, whatever. Linda, what would happen if you said, "this issue you two are fighting about doesn't really interest me, it's your thing, so you two work it out between you. After you figure it out, come and tell me about it!"
"The second you overcomplicate it is the second it becomes the thing for which it is a corrective." -- El Fug

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Post by lpearlmom » Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:36 am

Thanks both for chiming in (sorry for taking over your thread with my question chani!).

So funny auto, I've definitely noticed how my girls react the same way when I'm mad at both of them rather than singling one of them out. I just never really thought of how to turn that to my advantage. Great advice and I will give it a try. I'm totally okay with them giggling behind my back. As long as they're not trying to kill each other I'm good!

JW, I would love to just stay out of their fights and have tried at different times. The problem is what do I do when things get out of hand ( they usually do) and they're getting physical or saying very hurtful things? It's my duty to intervene at that point, right? So I guess I feel like I should just jump in and intervene before it gets out of control from the get go.

Not sure but could experiment. Maybe lock the bathroom door and take a nice hot bath? Hmmmmm,,,,,:)
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Post by Tessytwinkle » Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:57 pm

Hi there. I hope your tummy is easing? I have been reading your posts and you reminded me how much I love dates. I wish I lived in a country where I could buy fresh dates. I adore them. I have been thinking of them as an S day treat. But your posts encourage me to have the odd one when I am feeling low. I so hope you are feeling better, how lovely to have a baby to cuddle. There's nothing quite like it really :)

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Post by chani8 » Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:35 am

I am feeling more hopeful today. I've actually been in a bit of a brain fog for the past few days. All I've been able to do is google about diet and obsess about food.

I just had to come here to share with you a tidbit that I learned, that just adds some fuel to the No S diet. I think we already understand that the body needs the break between meals to do it's healing thing. But what I didn't know, was just what that means regarding digestion. Apparently, allowing the body to fully digest and 'sweep itself clean' (not sure what that means technically speaking) takes about 4 to 5 hours. So we're doing a good thing for our bodies by not eating all day. Hurray for No S!

As a result of this new info, I have dropped my 4 meals down to three, eating early breakfast and not doing brunch. Call me "Vanilla No S"!!

As a result of my tummy trouble, autoimmune reaction, leaky gut symptoms, I'm going to be modifying my diet to include what I've learned from the SCD diet, the AIP paleo diet, and low FODmap diet. That means, for now, I'll be eating a very simple diet. I don't mind.

So for today, my Yes S day, here is the menu plan:
830 Breakfast: Fish bone broth with fish, zucchini, olive oil.
2pm Lunch: Chicken bone broth, chicken breast, zucchini, olive oil.
Shabbat Dinner: Homemade super-sourdough challah with drizzle of olive oil, DH's homemade fermented grape soda, carrotsauce, chicken soup, chicken quarter, zucchini, and one strawberry for dessert.

Oh, and I've switched from chomping on fresh garlic to help with digestion, to using fresh ginger instead. Much more pleasant and works very well.

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Post by eschano » Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:18 pm

Welcome to Vanilla Chani! I hope it will help your digestion.
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Post by automatedeating » Sat Feb 22, 2014 12:26 pm

Good luck with 3 meals/day, Chani. It's funny, one of my sisters just started WW and she is working so hard to eat 5 times a day. My 3 meals seems so much easier, so much less planning.
Month/Year-BMI
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Post by chani8 » Sat Feb 22, 2014 5:47 pm

Thanks for the support!

Today and yesterday were Yes S days, and they were really nice. I ate 3 meals, no snacks. Friday night dinner was a full 3 course meal, and I ate a little too much, but took a walk with DH afterwards, and that helped.

Today I only ate two (3 course) meals but did not overeat (too much, lol) and enjoyed them so much.

For Sweet, last night I tried a strawberry, but it wasn't organic and made my mouth itch, so I skipped on strawberries today. Instead, at lunch I had two bites of an organic banana for dessert, and for dinner I had some of my DH's lacto-fermented grape soda. Yum!

Also got a hike in the desert hills before dinner. Hurray!

My tummy is feeling better. Being our Sabbath, last night and today I 'cheated' on the diet by eating sourdough wheat bread, and seemed to tolerate it fine. I think I'll work on making sourdough oat bread, since oats are supposedly even more easy to digest.

I also ate organic gouda cheese for dinner. That was yum.

I am feeling some aching in my arms and legs and not sure but I think the soda might be the problem because it was so sweet. I think one issue I'm having is trouble tolerating fructose. But I could be wrong, it really could be the wheat. I suppose I need to be more scientific here, and not introduce two possible allergens at once. Duh. But it's so hard.

My menu plans for the week:
Leftover soups, chicken and beef.
Bone broth from organic chicken wings.
Cod liver.
Salmon fillet.
Fish stew.
Tuna steak.
Gouda cheese.
Homemade yogurt.
I need to buy veggies, namely zucchini.
I'd really like to try avocado again. There are two kinds of avocado here in Israel, and I definitely had a reaction to the bumpy skinned kind, but the smooth ones didn't seem to bother me.
Oh, and coconut milk is on my wish list to try again soon.

Cheers to Vanilla No S! Hope you all are having a great Yes S time!!

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Post by automatedeating » Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:19 pm

Hi Chani,
Hope you have a great week! I also hope you can find some consistent foods that don't cause problems for you. That would be very ..... energy-draining, I'd imagine, trying to figure out if a food will cause a reaction or not.
Take care!
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3; 8/14-24.5; 5/15-26.2; 1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6; 8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9; 3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8; 1/19-23.4; 2/19-22.7; 3/19-22.1

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Post by Tessytwinkle » Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:50 pm

Hi chani. I really sympathise with your efforts to work out which foods agree with you or not. I have some very bad allergies milk and peanuts. And some other intolerances which I do much better without. To test for food problems I had to exclude each food for at least 2 weeks to get it out of my system. Then introduce only one food at a time. Give it at least a week to see if if is a problem. Food allergies can take a while to show up. some allergies you get instant sore mouth or feel sick etc. but some can take a week or more especially if it is to do with your joints or tummy. So be patient. This will work for you. But I would advise you to go slowly so you do not have false readings and take something out unnecessarily. Best of luck. You will feel so much better when you find the troublesome foods and keep them out of your diet. Wishing you well. Tessy

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Post by chani8 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:28 am

Thank you both for your support. I feel like such a whiner. lol

Anyway, I am feeling hopeful today. The past two days were pretty rough. I'm doing the intro diet of what's called the GAPS diet, which means I'm eating bone broth, soups, certain veggies and some fermented foods (probiotics).

I wish I could be more patient and just enjoy what foods I get to eat. It's quite yummy, actually. But like a toddler, just tell me I can't have them, and I want them even more. I was doing great last week and by Friday felt way better, but then I insisted that my Yes S days include those foods that I refrained from during the week, and unfortunately, my stomach isn't buying into a Yes S day free-for-all. So I have to really be careful this coming weekend. I'm already obsessing about it.

I am just so thankful I found the No S diet before all this happened, because now I know how to plan meals and how to eat and when to eat. Now I'm just tweaking the what to eat.

The fun part is that I'm busy fermenting. I've made homemade yogurt, and whey. DH is making homemade ginger ale.

I've got pickles fermenting. I had made two large batches of sourkraut, but they didn't look right, so I got scared and dumped them. Oof, that was a loss. Anyway, I'm planning on making pickled ginger carrots soon. By pickling, I mean I'm using the lacto-fermented technique, which is just brine.

I'm going to take your advice to heart, Tessy, and reintroduce foods very slowly. Ugh. My wish list includes avocados and butternut squash because I have both of those in the freezer, then eggs, almonds and other nuts, coconut milk, fruit, and a little bit of my sourdough bread, one day.

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Post by chani8 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:52 am

Menu:

Breakfast: Chamomile tea with 1 T whey. Fish bone broth.
Salmon and zucchini.

Lunch: Chamomile tea with 2 T whey. More broth.
Black olives, steamed lettuce, chicken wings, olive oil, carrots.

Dinner: More tea and broth. Yogurt.
Fish, zucchini and carrots, olive oil.

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Post by eschano » Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:26 am

Hi Chani,
Wow, that's a tough one but I know you can do it and know what: your food actually sounds yummy and super healthy. Your body will love you for this!
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Post by automatedeating » Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:26 pm

You can freeze avocados? I freeze guacamole, but I never imagined freezing the whole fruit. Do you basically have to make guacamole after freezing the whole fruit? I bet it's all mushy when it thaws.... avocados are such an amazing fruit. When my students discuss being able to only take two or three things to a desert island that they could survive on, the list usually ends up: avocados, a hen that's laying eggs, and a goat that is lactating. :) Avocados, eggs, and milk......pretty much every vitamin you could want.
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3; 8/14-24.5; 5/15-26.2; 1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6; 8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9; 3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8; 1/19-23.4; 2/19-22.7; 3/19-22.1

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Post by jw » Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:22 pm

It sounds like you are becoming an expert in fermented foods, chani! I hope you'll find your optimal diet soon and be done with the tummy troubles.

It's frustrating to have to keep ruling things out. Tessy's elimination diet sounds very sensible -- I have a few dairy suspects I may try that on, too!
"The second you overcomplicate it is the second it becomes the thing for which it is a corrective." -- El Fug

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Post by chani8 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:09 pm

You all are great! So sweet and supportive. Thanks for stopping by and encouraging me.

I was able to get organic avocados this time, and surprisingly, they don't turn brown, so we figure there is no need to mash them with lemon juice. We're just scooping them out, wrapping them tightly in plastic baggies, and hoping for the best. We're only planning to make quacamole with them anyway, so if they're mushy, it's fine.

I checked my pickles and they haven't molded. Hurray. Made the carrots, too.

Got in 1 minute of easy going jumping jacks and 20 granny pushups.

Auto, on the desert island question, I think I'd choose olives over avocados. Probably an Israeli thang. ;)

This year the avocados were something special, though. Just perfect. I figured out how to ripen them thanks to google. Just sit them in a basket with apples, and they ripen in three days.

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Post by chani8 » Wed Feb 26, 2014 3:36 pm

No S Diet
Breakfast - probiotic whey, tuna steak, fish broth, ginger, olives, olive oil.
Lunch - chamomile tea, more whey, probiotic pickle juice, chicken wings in homemade broth, ginger, zucchini.
Dinner - more whey, more ginger, more broth, baked fish, more zucchini, and more olive oil.

Oh, and one more baby!! 430 am delivery of a 3 day old newborn to my door (by social services). Tiny, sweet, pink.

No Stress aka LAM:
Sat in sun for 45 glorious minutes.
Took a nap.
Planning a short workout of some kind.

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Post by chani8 » Thu Feb 27, 2014 9:38 am

No S Diet

Breakfast - spatone (forgot to take it last night), whey, broth, fish soup with zucchini, olives in olive oil.
Lunch - whey, broth, chicken quarter, carrots?
Dinner - whey, broth, chicken breast, carrots?

No Wasting Time
Make more yogurt?
Unpacked baby girl clothes.
Organized baby room.

No Stress
Got 20 minutes of sun (with toddler).
A nap?!
Exercise?
Breeeathe.
Drink a lot of water.
Smile at each family member at least once today, say something kind to them, too.
Be cheerful.
Go to bed after evening baby bottles.
Give DH time to nap during the day, so he can take midnight feeding. (I take 6am.)

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Post by eschano » Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:23 am

Love NoStress!

And your husband sounds great - taking midnight feeding :) In Austria it's still all very traditional - men don't do much the first year. They should take note!
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Post by automatedeating » Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:57 pm

No Wasting Time sounds like a great one, although in your case..... Chani, do you really struggle with that?! :) You seem like you never waste a moment of anything!
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3; 8/14-24.5; 5/15-26.2; 1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6; 8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9; 3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8; 1/19-23.4; 2/19-22.7; 3/19-22.1

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Post by chani8 » Thu Feb 27, 2014 8:22 pm

Eschano, my DH is very domestic and does the laundry, dishes, etc. I've told my daughters that I'm spoiled and they shouldn't expect this, and I've told my sons to learn from their father. lol

Auto, I am such an introvert and not domestic and I spend way too much time thinking instead of doing, or googling. lol. Holding babies gives me an excuse to sit.

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Post by chani8 » Thu Feb 27, 2014 8:25 pm

Omgosh tomorrow is an S day, and I dont see any way to S at all with this strict diet stuff. Oh well. I gotta think 'big picture' as in, my health.

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Post by Tessytwinkle » Thu Feb 27, 2014 9:31 pm

Wow Chani you are a goddess!! You impress me on so many levels. Keep plugging away at your food changes, all these tests of food take time. Your body needs to quieten down and start to recover. I do wish you well. I have a lovely image of you with babies smiling and basking in the sun :) :) I'm sure you will think up a treat for the weekend. Can you still have fresh dates? They would be special :)

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Post by chani8 » Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:15 am

Thanks, Tessy! The goddess of burping babies. lol

Today is a Yes S day! I went to bed feeling down that I would have nothing special today, and right before I fell asleep I asked DH to thaw out the organic chicken wings for me for today. They are special to me because we don't buy much organic chicken since they are so expensive. Usually we eat antibiotic free which is normal priced.

This morning I got another S idea, to make carrot juice. Today I'm going to drink the juice and add the shreds to my chicken soup.

This is an intro diet that I'm doing and it jump starts the healing process, so I don't want to do anything to blow it. Taking things really slow. Started yogurt yesterday. Not sure if I'm tolerating it or not. I'll try more today and see what happens. No dates allowed for a while.

Sweets: organic carrots: boiled, juiced, baked. Yogurt.
Snacks: planning to drink broth all day, snack on carrot chips, and olives.
Seconds: planning on eating a double portion of chicken and zucchini at dinner.

I wont be tasting the wine or eating any of my sourdough bread. My DH explained how I could feel good knowing that I baked it and that my family is eating such special bread that I baked for them.

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Post by chani8 » Fri Feb 28, 2014 10:11 am

Yes S:
Breakfast:
1/3 of a homemade yogurt.
Organic chicken bone broth.
Organic chicken soup with chicken wings and carrots.
Sip of freshly made organic carrot juice. WOW!! It's so sweet that I'm saving it for tonight's family meal, to drink instead of wine. :)
Lunch:
More yogurt, bone broth with shredded zucchini, and organic chicken soup with carrots.
Dinner:
Carrot juice. :)
Yogurt.
Lettuce salad with black olives and olive oil.
Chicken soup with chicken breast and zucchini.
No Stress:
Sunning with the two babies.
Long shower with a shave.
Smiling.
Breathing.

I'm struggling with wanting to add in an egg to my diet in order to make a zucchini latke, since adding an egg (yolk) is part of the next stage of the diet, but I haven't confirmed that the lactose free yogurt is working out. So, I guess I will wait. I suppose I can just stir fry some shredded zucchini instead. That does sound yummy, and worry free.

Yes to Progress
The weird tingling in hands and legs is gone, replaced with a feeling of weakness in them. My legs feel like jello. This is a good sign apparently.
Arthritis pain in finger has lessened dramatically, but it's still a little stiff.
Still feel sensation in throat, as if there is still food in my tummy that is trying to regurgitate, but it's not as often, not after every meal. I.must.eat.slowly.and chew well!
I had a rough time at the beginning of the week with moodiness. I'm still struggling, and I'm pretty sure it is related to both 'die off' and nutritional ketosis. I'm trying hard to eat lots of veggie carbs to stay out of ketosis, because I am a weepy baby when in ketosis. Ketosis is not for me.
I'm also getting flu like symptoms throughout the day, aching and tired, a little headache here and there. Overall, not a big deal. Could be from ketosis or from the 'die off' of bad tummy bacteria. Who knows.
I just want to get through to the healing side where I'll be able to eat more normally.

Having trouble with one of my teen (twin, 17yo) daughters. It's hard when I just can't find anything to like about her right now. Not her dress, her actions, what she says. I've got to work through this. I want to like her. <sigh>

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Post by automatedeating » Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:31 pm

Hi Chani,
Glad you sat in the sun again. Ahhhh

1. how much weight did you lose before coming on here for maintenance? if it was a significant amount, I wonder if your body is still a bit stressed and trying to find some balance?
2. Did you have these symptoms before weight loss?
3. Re: your daughter. So sorry! I have had times like that with both of my kids, and I always hate myself for it, but then realize it's impossible to like everybody all the time! I think it's important for us to be honest about behavior/attitudes that we don't like, but on the other hand, she really will grow out of a lot of those annoying behaviors. When I remember my attitudes and beliefs at 17, I kind of cringe. :)
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Post by lpearlmom » Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:37 am

Sorry chani to hear about hairy health issues. Sounds frustrating as it's unclear exactly what the underlying problems are.

I appreciate your honesty about your daughter & think most parents can relate. I love my oldest but she can be very difficult at times. Some days I really don't like her much either. The feeling always passes, but I imagine things will only get more difficult as she enters her teens.

Hope you're feeling a bit better soon.

Linda
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Post by Tessytwinkle » Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:38 am

Dear Chani. Hang in there. You are being so wise and careful with your diet. But you are right you need to be patient. Hope you feel better soon and think how yummy that egg will taste :)
As for teenagers, I can remember when I did not much like my son and he did not much like me, not a happy time. But a rite of passage I suspect. He is now the most delightful and loving person.

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Post by chani8 » Sun Mar 02, 2014 1:29 pm

Thank you Auto, Linda and Tessy for your kind and wise words.

No S Diet
Breakfast: Homemade lactose free Yogurt. Leftover chicken soup with carrots and zucchini.
Lunch: Chamomile tea. Beef broth. Organic lettuce with lemon juice. Dried black olives. Beef stew with carrots and zucchini.
Dinner:

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Post by chani8 » Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:17 am

Long time no post. I was having a hard time and now I'm feeling better. I went on a very strict GAPS diet and detoxed. It was so hard. I'm also in ketosis, which is hard to transition into, but now that I'm in it, I'm feeling better. I'll probably be in ketosis for a while until my body can handle carbs again.

I am not exactly sure how I got so sick before to warrant going on the GAPS diet. It all started with (drumroll please). . . stress.

Upon researching (aka googling) I learned yesterday that I don't breath correctly. Did you know that when you inhale, you're supposed to push out your tummy? I asked my 14yo son if he knew the proper way to breath, and sure enough, he did. He explained that when you inhale, you are filling up a balloon. Great analogy.

So yesterday I found some exercises to do, and worked so hard to try to breath correctly that my diaphragm was sore by the end of the day. lol That's how out of shape my diaphragm is. I usually take short shallow breaths, keeping my tummy tight. No wonder my digestion is suffering.

I am on Day 5 of the GAPS Intro Diet. I am only eating fatty soup broths and all the meat in them. Zero carbs until yesterday. Yesterday I juiced zucchini and put the juice into the soup. All was well. Then I juiced carrots in the afternoon and put the juice into the soup. Again, it's fine. Today I added more of both zucchini and carrot juice to my soup. It means there is a little more fiber than yesterday. I am being cautious because before the detox, I was totally reacting to any fiber. So far, so good, thank G-d.

Breath. ;)

I am still No S'ing if you will not count the broth as food. It's more like tea for me. I'm also drinking chamomile tea and sucking on ginger cubes.

No S Diet and GAPS Intro Diet:
3 days of fish soup, chicken soup, beef soup, eating the meat also.
Day 4 - enter juice of zucchini, then carrot in chicken soup. Chamomile tea. Ginger. Started breathing practice.
Day 5 - both juice of zucchini and carrot in the chicken soup. There is definitely some recognizable fiber in the soup now. Hope all goes well. More tummy breathing. Wow, it's so hard to do.

Thinking of you all. :)

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Post by automatedeating » Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:46 pm

Hi Chani,
Sorry you are so sick! And glad you are learning to belly breathe. :)
Were you this sick before you began dieting? I keep wondering if your body is stressed from weight loss. I'd really like to know more about your history with your digestive issues (how far back they go, etc.)
Please take care! I was so glad to see your post, I had just been wondering how you were doing.
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Post by chani8 » Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:53 pm

Auto, you ask a good question, but I'm not sure of the answer. I did the SCD diet several years ago (for almost two years) to try to get relief for a hormone imbalance similar to PCOS. The diet didn't help much and I believe it was because I did not go low carb. I did learn that hormone free meat/dairy/eggs helped a bit for inflammation.

Around 5 years ago, a lot of stuff happened all at once. I was saying goodbye to a 3yo foster girl, at the same time that my youngest son was approached by a neighborhood (grandfather!) pedophile (whom we reported), and soon after that, we made a very big move and lifestyle change. I nearly had a nervous breakdown. Around that time I started getting gallbladder pain.

It took a good two years to recover from all that. Thank G-d I started getting my strength back, because that's when my DH got a diabetes diagnosis and he was feeling lousy. I got googling and was able to figure out a low carb diet for him, which I later learned was similar to Atkins Phase 3. I joined him on this low carb adventure, and lost 30 pounds. He lost over 50 lbs and lost his diabetes diagnosis, too. Hooray!

Sometime in the middle of that year, I fell off the low carb bandwagon and stuffed myself with pizza 3 times a week for several weeks. My gallbladder pain flared up and an ultrasound finally found a 1cm gallstone. I tried an anti-gallstone diet and it totally messed up my blood sugar, as it was high carb diet. That's when I got diagnosed with pre-diabetes, and saw that my severe anemia was still a problem.

So after all that, could it be that dieting is stressing my body out? I think that stress is stressing my body out. lol And if I'd just learn to breath and cope with stress better, it probably wouldn't matter what I eat! But meanwhile, I'll keep practicing how to breath, and do the low carb thing. I like low carbing, just not as low as I am now, that's for sure. I miss my veggies. Waaaah!

I'm thinking that this last bout of feeling terrible has to do with my two foster girls leaving after almost 2 years with us, then a move across town, then a baby that went back to her sick mother (that was hard for me), and then getting a third baby, even though I love her! It's all stress, even when it's good stuff. Stress just keeps my stomach in a knot.

My husband keeps demanding to see my stomach pop out with the inhales. lol That's support, eh!

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Post by jw » Tue Mar 11, 2014 7:31 pm

Glad you posted, chani -- I also was wondering how you were doing. I just came across the GAPS diet in my own googling on how to correct the damage done by undiagnosed celiac. It is a very restricted (and work-intensive!) diet -- I made a big batch of chicken broth this weekend, but I don't think I can manage the whole regimen. I don't have the incentive of symptoms -- I know the damage is there, but I don't feel it.

I hope that it gives you some strength and that life settles down just a little for you!
"The second you overcomplicate it is the second it becomes the thing for which it is a corrective." -- El Fug

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Post by chani8 » Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:17 pm

Thanks JW. The GAPS intro diet is very restrictive, and I'm doing a modified stricter version of it even. But the regular GAPS diet doesn't look too scary to me. Meaty/fish soups and veggies are the staples, and everything else is extra. Easy for me because I'm not into baking or variety. lol.

If you don't feel badly, then that's great. I can see how making changes will be hard though. If you only cut out gluten, might that be good enough?

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Post by jw » Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:07 pm

It's the fermented veggies that scare me, chani -- not wild about sauerkraut or kimchi and it's a long, drawn out process for something that's not a favorite! I love spicy foods but not sour. I am compromising with prebiotic foods and probiotic capsules and spicing with turmeric, which has strong anti-inflammatory properties . . . They say healing can take up to five years and at 62, I don't want to wait that long to be able to absorb nutrients!

Are you feeling good effects? I really hope so!
"The second you overcomplicate it is the second it becomes the thing for which it is a corrective." -- El Fug

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Post by lpearlmom » Wed Mar 12, 2014 6:23 am

So glad you popped in chani. Sorry to hear your having some health issues still. I love when you mention stuff about your hubby. It sounds like you guys have a wonderful relationship.
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Post by chani8 » Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:49 pm

Friday afternoon I hit rock bottom and realized that enough was enough. This weekend was a holiday and all my kids were home and the girls were baking cookies, real chocolate chip cookies as well as sugar free oatmeal cookies. Being on my strict diet, I was feeling so miserable and hopeless.
So I gave up, gave in, got up, got a real chocolate chip cookie (sugar! - haven't had sugar in over a year!) and ate it all gone. And like Eve, I gave my DH a cookie, too. LOL. And this might mean we've been banned from the garden of paleo eden, but that's ok.

Truth is, I think Auto was on to something about 'diet stress'. I was both physically and mentally stressing out from my diet. I feel like I gave my body a few weeks to detox and that has to be enough for now. I want to get back to real life, real food, exercise and having energy. I hope my system is ready for it. I sure pushed it with those cookies.

The interesting thing is that after eating cookies, I got an allergy/sneezing attack. So today I baked gluten free oatmeal cookies, sugar free, with just cinnamon, coconut oil, baking soda, and one egg, and sure enough, within minutes of eating a cookies, I started sneezing. My DH wants me to bake another batch tomorrow, this time I should leave out the cinnamon. ;)

I have to say that the oatmeal feels so good to me. Seriously, it could be the cinnamon making me sneeze, or the egg. Who knows. I may not figure it out. I don't care. So I'll sneeze. Pass me another cookie! ;)

I do want to think about how I plan to eat now. I am certainly not going back on sugar again. I like being sugar free.

I think my biggest issue here is with portion control. I just eat too much for my size and for my digestive ability. I really cannot hope to eat enough calories when I eat low cal foods. And eating too much protein doesn't feel good either. So enter starches. That is what I'm thinking about. The easiest way to eat less and get enough calories, is to start adding a small amount of starches to the menu. The key is small amounts so that my system doesn't get overloaded. Also, I need to choose my food wisely.

Then again, isn't this what I started doing when I got to feeling sick? I was eating barley and quinoa. Then again, I was eating a ton of nuts, too. And nuts are hard to digest apparently. I was eating a ton of fiber, too, and that was the final straw if I remember correctly. I was juicing my veggies and putting the fiber into the soup. And that extra fiber just blew my tummy up like a big balloon. So, ok, I'll go easy on the fiber for awhile.

Just trying to think this through. It's all so confusing and I like everything simple and laid out. I want to make a menu plan and then be able to stop thinking so much about food. With Passover coming up, it's not likely to be so simple though. I'm going to have kids off from school for several weeks vacation. Ugh. They like to eat both my food and everything else under the sun. I can't believe my family is so happy to eat soup every day. I just make myself some chicken soup and the smell is enough to get everyone coming to investigate and of course they want some too. Hope I can get chickens on sale. lol

I started meditating. And doing breathing exercises. That has helped a lot. It will come in handy soon, too, since our 1.5 yo foster girl is leaving next week. Here comes more stress.

I got some exercise in today. 30 granny pushups, 30 goblet squats, 25 kicks, 30 punches.

Today was supposed to be a No S day but after 4 Yes S days, I was a little out of it. I mindlessly popped a walnut in my mouth. A fail of a No S and a fail because I want to stay away from nuts for now. Other than that, I don't count the oatmeal cookies as a problem because they have no sugar or sweetener at all. More like a granola bar. However, the organic carrots were so sweet they tasted like candied carrots so maybe they were a fail. ;)

I probably should invest in an online journal rather than boring the socks off of the No S'ers with my babbling.

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Post by lpearlmom » Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:47 pm

Hi chani

I think eating normal as possible is really desirable unless you have some severe food allergy. I like Ellyn Satter whose a dietician because she's very practical & down to earth. She says scientists are constantly changing their minds about whats healthiest so it's best to just take the moderate approach. She recommends eating a balanced meal because all nutrients are important for different reasons. So a protein, carb, dairy, fat, & fruit or veg should be included in every meal.

She also. Says it's best to hedge your bets and eat different kinds of fats and since too much fiber can upset tummies & not enough causes other problems to shoot for 50% of your carbs being whole grain & 50% white. She also reminds us that what we eat is actually only a small factor in our overall health so says to shoot for balance and variety in foods, move your body a bit each day and basically get on with your life otherwise.

I realize with your various health concerns this approach may not work for you but did want to to point out a different point of view for perspective. Whenever I'm getting too stressed out about what I should be eating, I find reading her approach really calms me down.

Anyway my turn to apologize for rambling but good luck with it all!

Linda
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Post by automatedeating » Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:58 pm

Well said, Linda. I agree with just moderate eating--eat food that tastes good and don't worry too much about "taboo" foods or "gotta eat this because it's healthy" food.

Chani, your meals always seem kind of complicated and exotic to me. Not a bad thing, but since they're not really working for you anyway....heck, why don't you try some basic meals: tortillas and beans, spaghetti, pot roast, shepherd's pie, chicken salad and soup (already a winner at your house), with just a serving of veggies/salad on the side? Hard to go wrong (unless you have gluten or dairy issues, ha ha which I know you may have).

Anyway, I guess I'm also now rambling!! It has been one of those days. And the LAST thing I want to do is discourage you or make you feel like I'm judging your meals or anything like that. I just want you to feel more freedom, more at ease with your diet, especially when it seems like you've got lots of other stresses going on.

Please take care, and thanks for your long check-in. I for one have an online journal: it's called the NoS Daily Check-in!!! LOL, Reinhard will probably eventually kick me off for hardly ever talking about the diet itself. :lol:
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Post by eschano » Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:50 am

If I were you I would probably start with one kind of starch for a couple of weeks that you know is easy to digest.

Flying in the face of all dietician's advice every: White Basmati Rice is the easiest to digest for me. Wholemeal is so much harder! I would suggest you use easy to digest vs. healthy for a bit before you experience further. Imagine all the good veggies you could stir fry with rice or if you choose pasta, again, for my body the white stuff is much easier to digest (also the only kind I've ever seen in Italy having lived there for a year and they seem to be quite healthy) so whatever you choose stick with it for a week or two and then add.

Barely and quinoa give me massive stomach troubles.

And you can cook the rice/couscous/pasta - whatever you think you'll take best with your chicken soup. Double win.

This way you might find out what it is exactly that causes you problems?

The carrot is definitely not a fail! Your tastebuds have likely become more sensitive :)
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Post by chani8 » Fri Mar 21, 2014 10:46 am

Yesterday was a total No S fail but I just accepted it as a sick day, or more like, a recovery day. Since I don't know what I can eat, I've been nibbling. For dinner, my 19yo son made a stir fry with chicken and a package of frozen 'chinese style' veggies (with corn and green beans and peppers). I wasn't going to touch that stuff, but changed my mind and ate three (small) bowls of it. With white rice. :) I've also been eating oatmeal cookies.

Today is a Yes S day and my 20yo DD is home, so I'll be eating good. Sugar free chocolate chip cookies, date bars, baked sweet potato fries. Brunch is boiled chicken and sweet organic carrots. Dinner is chicken with zucchini and rice.

I've got two babies leaving next week, so this is our last weekend with them. It's stressful, but what helps me is to be happy for them. The little baby is going back to her mother and will be spending a year at a mother-child unit that teaches at risk mothers how to be good mothers. The 1.5yo is going to a nice (wealthy) family and will have three big sisters. So this is all good news.

I'm looking forward to getting my strength back so that I feel up to exercise and hiking. I want to get my kids more active with me.

My 6yo (almost) adopted daughter's english isnt as good as it could be, so I've decided that reading is a good solution for that. Count us in for reading to her on a daily basis.

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Post by MJ7910 » Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:40 pm

well sometimes we just have days like that... best to just move on and learn. sounds like you are doing that!
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Post by jw » Sat Mar 22, 2014 1:40 pm

chani, your meals all sound like they've been copied from the Healthy Diet Cookbook -- mild, organic, full of good nutrients, delicious. You're doing so much right -- I am so sorry you can't pinpoint what is taking your energy. :(
Hope your visit with your DD is wonderful and you get back some of your oomph!
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Post by chani8 » Sun Mar 23, 2014 10:04 am

You both are so sweet and supportive. Checking my messages on this forum qualifies as a LAM for me. :)

Baby girl left this morning. Breath. She wa a cutie. A dainty little sweetie. I say that while contrasting to the hunk of cuddle muffin in my arms right now. (Typing one handed). :) 6 kilo at 2 months. No need to do bicep curls these days. He said his first '"gah" yesterday. He's staring at me with 'bonding' in his big blue eyes. So yummy!

Now I must prepare for the 1.5yo's leaving. Tomorrow the new parents come to meet her. That got my husband fired up to build a fenced in area for the dogs. What a relief to not have those dogs running wild. And my son cleaned up the poopy yard, too. It does help to have guests coming. Including two social workers.

I really enjoyed my Yes S days! Today is back to No S'ing, so I've got to get organized and find some willpower.

Breakfast: Yogurt
Brunch - Chicken wing soup and an oatmeal cookie - not sweet, looks like a cookie, tastes like an american type biscuit. Or a petit beurre biscuit but someone forgot the sugar. ;)

I really have no idea what to make for meals. Something to think about. I'm so not into cooking. Boiled meat. Boiled, steamed or juiced veggies. And some kind of good resistant starch as a side dish. Can't I just have oatmeal with every meal. Half my tummy issues are gone from putting oats into my diet. The other issues are resolving from breathing/meditating. And the rest is about low stomach acid and therefore not overeating.

My son is requesting stir fry for dinner. So if I can manage that, it just leaves lunch to ponder. And then the rest of the weeks' meals. :shock:

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Post by automatedeating » Sun Mar 23, 2014 3:18 pm

Hi Chani,
Wow, you have been taking care of three children under 2? That would give me an ulcer and other tummy issues in no time. :)

Have fun with reading with your 6-year old! Special moments, for sure.

I think it's perfectly fine to have oatmeal with a couple meals a day! I can't remember if you are having any dairy, but if you add milk (or yogurt, which I see you do eat) to oatmeal, you'll be getting Vitamins A, B's, D, and probably K. Throw some avocado (Vitamin E) onto a salad and you're all set nutrient-wise! :lol:

Stir-fry sounds perfect. It's easy (I can even cook a stir-fy), and simple to vary it depending on available meat and veggies.

Chicken and rice soup I bet would be a huge hit in your house! It's so funny that you say you aren't into cooking, because your thread is always filled with time-and-dish-intensive foods that you've prepared!

Did you see the list of "normal" meals I listed a couple posts back for you? They are all very basic. And there is a soup thread on the General Discussion Board that you could use for more ideas.
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Post by chani8 » Sun Mar 23, 2014 3:47 pm

Ok, Auto, your encouraging words are helping. My son's girlfriend made the lunch and it was nice. They didn't make stir fry, instead it was paprika potatoes and chicken. It was nice. I haven't had potatoes in over a year. I can wait another year to have them again. LOL. Pass me the oatmeal. ;)

I've got an avocado sitting on my counter, ready and waiting for dinner. :)
Salad in the fridge. Dinner is hereby planned.

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Post by lpearlmom » Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:10 am

That's got to be tough saying goodbye after you've bonded and cared for the little ones. You are doing an amazing thing for those children. I really admire what you guys are willing to take on.

Also, can't tell you how many projects we finally got around to once we were having company coming!
:D

Have a great week!

Linda
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Post by chani8 » Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:02 pm

I can't believe I ate chocolate zucchini cake today. Lots of it, too. :( With lunch and dinner. The sugar was a binge trigger and I lost control. And I'm still obsessing about it. Most of it is now in the freezer, saving it for the weekend.

I'm planning to make a chocolate carrot cake with no sugar, tomorrow. Can I taste it? Wed is a Yes S day, a special day, so I can for sure eat some then. But I'll be bummed to not be able to taste it when it's warm out of the oven.

Apparently I started the No S Diet on Dec 5th, according to some notes I found. My B'day is Dec 4th, so it shouldn't be too hard to remember my No S Diet anniversary. This is one of the best diets for me, and I just want to strengthen my resolve to get back on the bandwagon and keep moving forward.

I want to bring up something that's been bothering me, tempting me, actually. Overeating. It seems that one of my biggest issues is still eating too much food. I have a problem with quantity, which is why I was eating large portions of veggies, to the detriment of my digestion. Even though I put everything into one bowl, it was too much soluble fiber for me. If I eat a large bowl of soup, it's too much liquid. Sometimes I pile on the chicken or beef. One egg wasn't enough, I was up to three a day. Etc, etc. I just overeat. Period. Since I also count calories, I haven't gained from this overeating, but I've been suffering digestive problems because of it.

So what's tempting me, is that I keep thinking I should just snack a little. Instead of sitting down to all that food, I should drag it out. Today I started breakfast and ate all the way into brunch when I finally stopped and didn't eat again until a late lunch with barely a break into dinner time. Such a strange day. Anyway, I keep thinking, "Don't eat so much at once. No S is too hard because big meals are too hard on digestion." Well, if you saw how much I want to pile into my bowl, you'd know what was truly the problem, not No S'ing, but the portion size. :(

Stress stress stress, this is all about stress. The new parents are fantastic and I'm so happy for this toddler. She's really into them, too. Loves the undivided attn. They come again tomorrow with their kids and will go to the park, and then maybe take her for good on Wed or Thurs, depending on how tomorrow goes. That's the reason I baked the darn cake today, to cheer us all up and keep this a positive.

But sugar is not.for.me, especially not on a No S day!!

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Post by lpearlmom » Tue Mar 25, 2014 5:03 am

Chani don't forget most of us really piled our plates at the beginning of this process. I don't think you can really skip that part. My portion sizes are quite reasonable now but this happened slowly as I began to trust that I really could have another plate of food in a few hours again. Maybe you need to allow yourself to go through that as well?

Just a thought. Hang tight--things will ease up for you soon hopefully.

Linda
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Post by chani8 » Tue Mar 25, 2014 5:33 am

Linda, I hate to whine, but ... "I don't know how to eat in moderation. Waaah!"

Did you ever read Gregory the Terrible Eater? That's me. My favorite line is, "It's ok to eat like a goat, but you shouldn't eat like a pig."

Slowing down helps me. But now, what do I put on that plate???? What can I eat? What is a normal portion?

It's kind of like parenting. I didn't know what good parenting was like, so I had to research it and learn about it.

What is good eating like? I've tried to be so healthy with food choices or calories, but I can't get portion control right. I was doing 'one plate', but I can't seem to plan a balanced meal. Well, I'm just now trying to figure out what a balanced meal looks like with some starches in the picture.

I've got a salmon thawing for today. I'll cook it with veggies, add some spices, call it good. I guess I could serve leftover rice with it. I think I need to stop using a bowl, and instead use a full-sized plate, so that I see that I've truly eaten a whole plate full. How much of each goes on that plate? 4oz of fish, or 6oz? A 1/4 cup of rice, or more? And veggies? I really have no idea. Which is why I found counting calories so helpful, until I overate large amounts of veggies. ;)

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Post by ironchef » Tue Mar 25, 2014 6:44 am

chani8 wrote:Linda, I hate to whine, but ... "I don't know how to eat in moderation. Waaah!"

Slowing down helps me. But now, what do I put on that plate???? What can I eat? What is a normal portion?
Can I suggest forgetting about portions of this and that for now? I know this is a side effect of calorie counting (which I've done a lot of myself), but micromanaging ounces of fish or 1/4 cups of rice is sort of the icing on the cake (pun intended!). Put your mental energy into the big hitters (like that chocolate cake!), rather than the little bitty questions. Both kinds of cake sound delish by the way!

I would gently suggest that for a few weeks just get a normal dinner plate (you're right, bowls can be deceptive, and aren't necessary unless you're eating something sloppy like soup). Then put food that you like to eat on the plate until it is full, but only one layer thick (so, a piece of fish next to a slice of bread is great, but a sandwich stacked on top of the fish, not so much). Forget about the calorie count, so you're not tempted to "load up" on low calorie foods just for the novelty of bulk. Eat, enjoy.

If you're hungry about an hour before the next meal is due, then you know you judged it about right.
I can't seem to plan a balanced meal.
Linda and automated make some good points above - I think there is so much confusion out there about so called "health" and "balance". Some of my meals are beautiful creations of protein, healthy fats, veggies, complex carbs and micronutrients that would make a nutritionist weep. Some of my meals are cheese & pickles on toast. And that's ok. Maybe not ideal, but ok. The human body is amazingly adaptable :)

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Post by lpearlmom » Tue Mar 25, 2014 2:41 pm

I agree wholeheartedly with iron chef and just wanted to add that if you could get your hands on this book by Ellyn Satter, I think it'd be a lifesaver. She talks about planning normal meals, recovering from diets and learning to find our innate stopping point again etc. it also shows a sample 3 week rotating menu plan. Lots of great info!

http://www.amazon.com/Secrets-Feeding-H ... lyn+satter


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Post by osoniye » Tue Mar 25, 2014 4:39 pm

Just another point of view... the idea of 1/2 your plate covered with raw and/or cooked veg (or fruit), and 1/4 with starch and 1/4 with meat or beans works well as a rule of thumb. You can always adjust the amounts if you are overfull or still hungry, as you get used to that as a guideline.
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chani8
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Post by chani8 » Tue Mar 25, 2014 6:36 pm

Thank you Linda, Ironchef, and Osoniye, for your support and suggestions.

Today was a total fail day, like yesterday, even though I binged on sugar free chocolate zucchini cake that wasn't sweet at all. My DD said it tasted more like bread. The point is, I didn't sit down to lunch, and instead ate that cake all day long. It did not seem to help my stress, no matter how many bites I took. :oops:

I think I've got to plan some more helpful methods of coping with stress, because food is just not doing it for me. :roll: duh. :wink:

At one point in the late afternoon, I did realize that I was holding my stomach in a knot, so I did my breathing exercises. That helped. By dinner I was more calm and ate a normal meal. Until I took a piece of sugar free halva for dessert - a totally cheat thing to do. :oops:

Tomorrow is a Yes S day. My youngest DD has an all day school party in Jerusalem to celebrate being able to read, and will be getting her first prayer book at the Kotel.

Today's breakfast: yogurt, cube of goat cheese, 1 scrambled egg with zucchini and a small piece of zuccchini kugel.
Then cake, cake and more cake. With butter. An apple.
Dinner: Salmon, rice, yellow peppers, small piece of halva.

Tomorrow's plans:
Breakfast: cube of goat cheese, scrambled egg, cottage cheese, kugel.
Lunch: cake on the go. An apple.
Dinner: hoping for shwarma or falafel and salad.

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Post by automatedeating » Wed Mar 26, 2014 3:03 am

Chani, you are dealing with incredible emotional strain right now. Even though these children often leave you to go to good homes, that is taking a huge emotional toll on you. Saying goodbye, having to grieve. Are you letting yourself grieve? Maybe go to the wailing wall or something like that (can you go there to grieve about just anything, or does it have to be specifically related to Judaism)?

Pile your plate, girl! It's the most marvelous freedom.
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Post by eschano » Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:51 am

Hear Hear auto!

Chani, I think what you could use more of right now is kindness with yourself. Big deal if your eating is all over after your strict eating. You're only experiencing what most people experience when they come off a diet. No biggie, just relax and experiment a little.
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chani8
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Post by chani8 » Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:59 pm

Thanks Auto and Eschano! Those words are like music to me.

Went to the Kotel and prayed my heart out. DD's celebration was awesome!

Cheat of the year: Doritos!! :twisted: Those hit the PMS spot. Grrr. That, and the 85% chocolate, and lots of my sugar free chocolate cake, and oh, a large latte!

Bought DD an american style donut with pink frosting and lots of sprinkles. Such fun! :) No, I had no interest in tasting it. Pink frosting?!

Toddler leaves in the morning. And that means guests and social workers are coming. The house is a total mess since I was gone all day. I am just too tired to care. I'll do a fake cleaning in the morning - that means, hide the mess. LOL

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Post by automatedeating » Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:12 pm

I am the master of the fake cleaning!
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Post by ironchef » Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:34 am

I am the master of the fake cleaning!
Is there another kind? :wink:

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