Octavia is finally checking in!

Counting carbs/calories is a drag. Obsessive scale stepping is a recipe for despair. If you want to count something, "days on habit" is a much better metric. Checking off days on a calendar would do just fine, but if you do it here you get accountability and support. Here's how. Start a new topic in this forum called (say) "Your Name Daily Check In." Then every N day post a "reply" to that topic as to whether you stayed on habit. A simple "<font color="green">SUCCESS</font>" or "<font color="red">FAILURE</font>" (or your preferred euphemism if that's too harsh) is sufficient, but obviously you're welcome to write more if you want. On S-days just register that you're taking an S-day. You don't have to do this forever, just until you're confident you've built the habit. Feel free to check in weekly or monthly or sporadically instead of daily. Feel free also to track other habits besides No-s (I'm keeping this forum under No-s because that's what the vast majority are using it for). See also my <a href="/habitcal/">HabitCal</a> tool for another more formal (and perhaps complementary) way to track habits.

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Soprano
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Post by Soprano » Tue Dec 25, 2018 8:45 pm

Pasta and pizza are easy, make that for him, double up portions so you can reheat and then cook what you want. Again try and double up some recipes then you have another easy meal.

Hope you feel better tomorrow

Jx
Never give up on a dream just because of the time it will take to accomplish it. The time will pass anyway.

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Post by Octavia » Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:13 am

Hi Soprano, Merry Christmas to you and thanks for the support. Hey, and you’ve taken me to Page 5 of my thread! A new page for a new year. :)

I spent a little time last night with my journal, cooking up fine ideas for the way ahead. I feel quite motivated (though it’s easy to feel a pleasant, positive glow when sedated by liqueur chocolates, peanuts and trifle...). Once again I realised how all the challenges in my life are connected. SLEEP is at the root of everything. Good sleep gives me the physical energy and brain power to stick to No S, to eat better meals, drink more water and take exercise. Those things lead to less illness, less inertia, the energy to do those little meal-management tweaks Soprano suggested above....plus more creativity, better moods, less anxiety.

I read a bizarre tip the other day, in a free downloadable weight loss book by Linda Westwood (some of her tips are very No S compatible, others very much not...) - it was to put on sunglasses in the house at night, to prevent too much light entering your eyes and disrupting your sleep!!! Wow - weird, huh? But at the same time - genius! So if you can’t resist glancing at your iPad,or doing some last minute clearing in the kitchen, at least you’re in a sort of personal twilight. 😎

Anyway, Linda Westwood’s quirky tips did remind me that good sleep is at the root of weight loss success, cos without it, there is no willpower. So it’s at the root of all manner of success. That is what kept me reading, even though I passed over the tips on ‘healthy snacking’. We all know where that leads. There were also more predictable tips on cutting carbs and adding more protein - I think we all know that, but again, when we get exhausted, we’re not organised enough to cook a beautiful piece of chicken with green beans. (Then do it again for the DC, and again for DH in between driving DC to classes and answering those last-minute emails.) But she’s not unrealistic - she advises to take on board just one or two new habits at a time, starting with eating more slowly. But it was good to be reminded that sleep must be prioritised. For me, that means shutting down screens early and not doing too much thinking, planning, organising before sleep. It also means I need to keep up with this steroid nasal spray the doctor has given me - a bunged up nose is a major obstacle for me - and another helpful thing is to listen to meditation recordings on YouTube. As long as they’re reasonably interesting and intelligent, they will stop me thinking my own, disruptive thoughts. If they are too dull and predictable, my mind will start generating more interesting stuff.

If I have a word of the year, it will be SLEEP. I wonder if Reinhard has an Everyday System for this? I must invent one.

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Post by Octavia » Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:37 am

I’ve just glanced at the Testimonials page. After all, I have now done more than a year on No S so I suppose I am allowed to leave a testimonial. However, I have only lost 10lb, and the people on that page seem to have lost astonishing amounts of weight so quickly. I mustn’t get depressed about this, though. I know that I am lucky to have only been a stone or so overweight in the first place. Maybe a lot of No S-ers are like me...imperfect and slow to lose weight. Should I leave a testimonial? Am I allowed? I think I could encourage others whilst being a useful voice of realism.

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Post by Soprano » Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:55 am

Definitely leave a testimonial not everyone will lose a lot of weight it's encouraging to know it works and is easy to stick with :)

I'll be doing one on my anniversary!

Jx
Never give up on a dream just because of the time it will take to accomplish it. The time will pass anyway.

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Post by lpearlmom » Wed Dec 26, 2018 5:07 pm

You should definitely leave a testimonial. It’s important to get lots of different perspectives and expectations. Of course I still haven’t written anything there. Not sure why. I guess it’s because at this point it’s hard to tease out how much of my success is from NoS and how much is from other methods.

Anyway, I think it’s smart you’re really working on your sleeping. I know dr fung says he can’t really help ppl till they get their sleep under control. Taking magnesium at night has really helped my sleep issues. Funny that you mentioned the sunglasses. I remember listening to a podcast about wearing colored glasses at night to block out the blue light or something. Here’s an article that talks about it: https://www.today.com/health/amber-tint ... er-t120220

I hope your sleep improves. That’s no fun. Also, thank you for the sweet response on my thread. 💜💜💜
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Post by sharon227 » Wed Dec 26, 2018 7:07 pm

Totally leave a testimonial! The fact that you are 10 lbs less is very inspiring to me. I will be thrilled when I get to being down 10 lbs. Being able to stick with it somehow even when weight loss is slow is hugely important. Whatever tips you can share for that will be very valuable.

I agree with you about sleep. It is an underrated thing for good physical and mental health. Staying off screens close to bedtime is very difficult for me when I'm working, because the only time I have for me-screen-time is in the evenings. I need to figure that out.

Exercise and sleep are my two non-eating-related priorities. Well, those and stress management. I think my life will be so much better if I eat right, exercise, get enough sleep, and manage my stress. Add in enjoyment time with family and friends, and that's a great recipe.

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Post by ladybird30 » Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:53 am

I love reading testimonials, so yes please.

I had a near miss this morning, part of the reason was a bad nights sleep last night. Generally I turn the lights right down an hour or two before bed, because it helps me to be relaxed and get to sleep more easily. Sometimes I darken the screen if I have a DVD on and just listen to the sound. So blue blocker glasses - not so weird.
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Post by Octavia » Thu Dec 27, 2018 11:17 pm

Thank you all, and I will start thinking about my testimonial!

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Post by automatedeating » Thu Dec 27, 2018 11:30 pm

I'm home from my trip and catching up on other threads -- thank you SO very much for the feedback, encouragement, and empathy on my thread.

YES! Leave a testimonial! I did, after one year, and I was only down maybe 8 or 10 pounds if I remember correctly. I felt very much like I had earned my spot just by sticking it out for one year. :-)
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3; 8/14-24.5; 5/15-26.2; 1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6; 8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9; 3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8; 1/19-23.4; 2/19-22.7; 3/19-22.1

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Post by Octavia » Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:00 pm

I will do it! :)

No S, I so need you. Today, I felt my 8-9 day period of Christmas feasting had finally burnt itself out. I threw away the mince pies and poured the remains of 3 bottles of wine down the sink. I also threw away half a bag of nuts, and put two unopened bags in the cupboard for the next party or gathering. The huge tub of Quality Streets* (on sale at half price when I went shopping yesterday) I still have....how can I throw them away....but maybe I should....or perhaps make a firm pledge to save them for next S weekend. Turn a potential feeling of sadness and deprivation into one of pleasant anticipation.

Anyway, thanks to the principles of No S, and the way you can get back on the plan at any moment, I have managed to have a proper, moderate N day. It seems like a miracle as Ive had zero willpower for the last 9 days - and prior to that I was wavering quite a bit - but those N day habits are truly in my system and seem to have locked back into place. I feel a sense of relief. I can still do this.

Too scared to weigh myself, though. I will wait till I’ve got a few N weeks under my belt.

*in case they’re not available in the US - Quality Streets are British chocolates with magical powers, which have been with us since childhood and contain happy Christmas memories for most of us. They come in super-colourful foil wrappers and to look at them is to turn into a child.

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Post by automatedeating » Sat Dec 29, 2018 12:29 am

Yay for return to moderation! My day has been a proper N Day as well! And I'm also shocked!
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3; 8/14-24.5; 5/15-26.2; 1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6; 8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9; 3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8; 1/19-23.4; 2/19-22.7; 3/19-22.1

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Post by Imogen Morley » Sat Dec 29, 2018 8:36 pm

My Christmas indulgences also lasted for more than a week, so I definitely share your weighing anxiety. Let's just put that off for a while, shall we?
I agree with you on the importance of sleep. It really is a cornerstone of healthy habits, yet we so often skimp on it and trade it for late night entertainment. I'm soooo guilty of it! But not yet willing to wear my shades indoors, thank you very much :D I'm kinda wondering if I would put exercise before sleep, though.
I looked up the sweets your mentioned. Seems like a cult classic! I have to remember to ask my friend from the UK to send me a box next Christmas. Or are they available all year round?

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Post by sharon227 » Mon Dec 31, 2018 3:43 am

Very cool that your Christmas indulgence period burnt itself out, and you were ready to get back to No S. Not because you felt guilt that you needed to, but because you needed to. Happy New Year!

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Post by Octavia » Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:22 pm

Thanks Sharon and Imogen!
Sadly my chaotic treat-focussed eating did continue for a while. There was another leg to our Christmas duties, which was to go to my mum’s again and look after her for a while. It was very challenging. I got into a sweet-stuffing habit, picking bits and pieces all day long, and when we got back home at midnight last night I was so exhausted and willpower-depleted that I ate yet more chocolate.

Today is my first proper, normal, post-Christmas day, and I’ve been relaxing and looking after myself (washed hair, rubbed in some body lotion, put on reasonably nice clothes, blow dryed hair). But then had a nasty shock when I realised that I’d forgotten an urgent piece of work, and have been battling that for a couple of hours. Laptop conked out - I think it’s just the charger, and have ordered another - managed to complete the project on my iPad. But when I’d finished, a powerful urge for chocolate rose up. Not just bits of chocolate, whatever happens to be left over, but a PROPER BIG BAR ALL FOR MYSELF. Total selfishness is what I wanted, after a holiday period of sensible grownup DUTY. I was about to succumb! (Jeopardy music playing in the background here...) I rushed downstairs and was about to put on my coat and go round to the supermarket...after all, I’ve been in all day...I need a walk....but then (sparkle music) I remembered the No S emergency life saver....the drink. The idea of a hot chocolate was surprisingly pleasing. Maybe that’s because I haven’t made on for a while. So here I am, supping my hot choc and believing that this COULD be a successful N day after all, and I could stay green till the weekend.

I’ve just discovered the work of Loretta Graziano Breuning. She’s an expert on habits and the ‘happy hormones’ that push us this way and that - dopamine, serotonin, endorphin, oxytocin. And the stress hormone, cortisol. I feel I understand my own brain and impulses better than ever before, after reading her book, Habits of a Happy Brain. It’s not a perfect book, perhaps a little too much on the brains and behaviour of animals, but I think she explains brilliantly the reasons it’s so hard to change habits. Of course No S helped me to understand just what it takes to create a new habit and override an old one, but I now have a more technical understanding and an ability to visualise what’s happening up there. Her website is well worth a look - InnerMammalInstitute.org.

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Post by sharon227 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:17 am

So I wasn't the only one with a big craving for something sweet! I think it's hard to get back to routines when we've been SO out of regular routines in every respect. Congratulations on not having the big chocolate bar! It's so easy to say the heck with it, you can (and will) do anything I want.

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Post by lpearlmom » Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:08 pm

Oh dear sorry about the forgotten work but glad you got it done! My habits are all out of whack too. Last night after dinner I really wanted some sweets. I managed to get by with a small piece. Awesome job on going for the hot cocoa instead. It is good to remember that it’s just our habits that need to get back on track and not some personal failing of our own.

(Love the jeopardy music playing in your head btw 😆)

Happy 2019!

Linda
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Post by automatedeating » Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:38 pm

Very fun post to read - thanks Octavia! And I will go check out that website/book.
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8/13-26.3; 8/14-24.5; 5/15-26.2; 1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6; 8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9; 3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8; 1/19-23.4; 2/19-22.7; 3/19-22.1

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Post by Octavia » Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:34 am

Hi Sharon, Linda and Auto! Sounds like many of us are being faced with sweet temptation at the moment. I’ve managed to stay green these last three days. I’ve had to revert to my early crutch of calorific drinks a few times, though. I don’t worry too much about these, as my home made cocoa has just two small sugar cubes in it, so it’s not like scoffing a Starbucks dessert-in-a-glass... and I do believe that for me, it helps to break the biting, chewing habit. I even had a vegetable cuppa soup yesterday after a long walk in the afternoon.

But I need to get lots more green days under my belt before I feel secure again, and start losing weight. I hope I’ll be able to manage without the calorific drinks again soon. They really do deflect cravings, I find, but at the same time, they keep the habit of responding to a craving alive. I do get that. Yet for me, they seem to help with the transition from perma-snacking to going without. And the feeling of success, achieving a green, gives a real boost too. I like the sense of achievement.

After three green days, I wonder if I’m confident enough to weigh myself without going to pieces? Then I’ll really feel like I’m on track again.

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Post by Octavia » Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:27 am

I’m wondering what sort of an S weekend I’ll have. After doing No S for more than a year now, I can’t really say that my S days have tamed themselves. And yet, I’m noticing a stronger and stronger dislike of not being hungry enough to enjoy a meal. That is indeed a step forward, and should lead to progress, especially if I focus on it, notice it a bit more. I’m still at the stage where I realise a little too late that I won’t be hungry enough for dinner. Then I feel quite stressed as I have to force a nice dinner down. So I’m going in the right direction, but it’s funny how long it’s taking! I find myself reflecting on the fact that although my eating habits were not extreme enough to make me obese, they were VERY deeply engrained. Sometimes I wonder if I simply cannot change! I have these massive neural pathways in my head, all eagerly backed up by the environment! Tesco selling the Quality Streets at half price, DH saying merrily ‘shall we get a pudding?’ !! No S is the only answer to all this, though. I’m certainly not giving up: just realising afresh what I’m up against.

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Post by Soprano » Sat Jan 05, 2019 2:34 pm

Sounds like you have come a long away, recognising that you won't enjoy a meal because you aren't hungry is a big step same as recognising when you are full or actually don't like half of the treats you eat.

You got it keep noticing :)

Jx
Last edited by Soprano on Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by automatedeating » Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:04 pm

Speaking from experience, you TOTALLY can change. It was years before my weekends were not "grazing" and my desire to come to the table ready for a nice meal won out over the desire for instant gratification of permasnacking.

Then, without truly even noticing, this year I realized I don't even have desserts very much on my S Days! I look forward to ice cream in the evening, but don't even have it both nights, usually.

So give it time. Although to be honest, I think it does depend on how we are wired. I find that I cannot moderate my alcohol intake as easily as I can my dessert intake. I think most forum users are the opposite. :roll: So I get the trickiness of moderating sweets, even though it's not my own experience.
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3; 8/14-24.5; 5/15-26.2; 1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6; 8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9; 3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8; 1/19-23.4; 2/19-22.7; 3/19-22.1

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Post by Octavia » Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:52 pm

Thanks for these supportive words, Auto and Soprano. Good to know that maybe a year isn’t really very long, in terms of rewiring my brain, and that things may yet improve. I’ve been grazing a lot since this afternoon. Auto, I’d love to know how long it took before your S days became tamer.

Although I’m aware that my S days are still a bit chaotic, I’m certainly not planning to impose any S day rules on myself - for me, the whole point is to relinquish rules and experience that AAAHHHH! release of tension. But I’m certainly intending to keep my N days strict in the coming months. I feel that any relaxing of the rules undermines the habit-building. In some ways it’s easier when you’re strict. Anyway I’m going to follow the good advice offered here, and focus on that feeling of wanting to be hungry, wanting to truly enjoy a meal.

Just to add, my friends seem to fall into the category of being either hooked on sweets OR alcohol. People seem to fall into one camp or the other. But despite the differences, I think we do understand each others’ issues pretty well! 🙂

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Post by Octavia » Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:55 pm

All going OK so far this week! Oh - just realised, it’s only Tuesday!!! :lol:

But it’s great to be back in a normal week with no enforced socialising, eating or drinking.

I’m doing Habitcal, also tracking my drinking of water and a couple of other things. But No S is the most important.

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Post by automatedeating » Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:41 pm

LOL, just realized it's only Tuesday. I feel like that too. I started back to work this week, so I think I was "thinking" about this week long before it started. Which makes me feel like it should be at least Wednesday today!
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3; 8/14-24.5; 5/15-26.2; 1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6; 8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9; 3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8; 1/19-23.4; 2/19-22.7; 3/19-22.1

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Post by Octavia » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:17 pm

And now, it is Wednesday! Hurrah. Hope all’s going well at school, Auto. I’m relieved to find that I’m really back in the swing of No S. Habitcal is helping me a lot. Let’s hope it continues.

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Post by lpearlmom » Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:06 pm

And I thought today was Thursday! I jumped out of bed at 6am in a panic, threw on five layers of warm clothes and took out the trash cans. 🤦ðŸ¼â€â™€ï¸

Glad you’re back in a good groove!
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Post by Imogen Morley » Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:28 pm

We're on the same page again - I've just posted my ponderings about hunger in my thread. I think the main incentive of NoS, at least after some time, is the pleasure that even the simplest of meals brings when one experiences mild hunger. Also, I love your "enforced socialising" phrase, I'm totally stealing it!

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Post by oolala53 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:30 pm

I never naturally got to the point where the S days got tame. After two years, I finally had to institute a mod that really helped for a long time: getting rid of my worst offenders. (They were pretty disordered, not just garden-variety permasnacking.) Even now, I can feel pulled by food on S days (or other days, too). I still do a lot of pondering over hunger. Sigh. I really don't know the way out of it. But compared to how I lived with overeating before No S, I'll take it.
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 9 years & counting
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SBMI Jan/10-30.8
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Post by Octavia » Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:05 pm

...I don’t think the ‘addictive hunger’ ever truly goes away. Not for those of us who have these big highways in our brains, linked to gaining that dopamine hit from food. But as you said Oolala, No S at least allows us to manage the situation better, and avoid those highways at least some of the time. I was thinking today, while I’m in a calm, vanilla phase: sticking to my plan is either easy, or totally impossible. I swing from one to the other. Would love to know if anyone else has read Loretta Bruening’s Habits of a Happy Brain. She fills in a lot of the gaps left by Gillian Riley, i find. Though Gillian’s idea of the importance of ‘free choice’ is something I’ve yet to encounter in anyone else’s work. It still seems to me that the concept of free choice is entirely subjective and intangible. One minute, not snacking feels like a free choice, entered into willingly. The next, it feels punitive and stupid. So I don’t get how one can decide once and for all that certain eating guidelines are a ‘free choice’, and stay feeling like that for ever. A feeling of free choice can be elusive in all areas of life, I think!

This confusing week continues...I keep panicking that it’s friday and I’ve failed to turn up for an important bit of work. Hope you’ve got over the wrong-bin-day shock, Linda!
:lol:
I’m going to check out Imogen’s thread now, to read those ponderings about hunger! I’d be honoured if you use my phrase ‘enforced socialising’!! It is definitely a thing. :)

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Post by oolala53 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:42 pm

I know of Gillian's work. Not an expert, but I don't think of the urge to overeat as necessarily an addiction. I think it's actually normal in humans in the presence of food and especially modern foods. That's why thinness is NOT the norm in the world now. I don't know why a few people can go from having big overeating issues and claim that they hardly have to think about it now, but they are definitely the exceptions. Or they are eating a quite restricted diet in the first place and get enough pleasure that they have accepted it.

I see No S as fitting with Gillian's idea of free choice. I have stuck with it (or my relatively recent mod experiments) because I keep reminding myself that I choose this over the options. I freely choose to limit my S's. Even at moments when I overeat and don't want to stop, I also know I could stop. I just don't. That has helped me later accept without as much dickering over it.

I'll see if my library has Bruening's book. But I sometimes think it would take life-threatening situations to have this all get wiped away for me. Which totally fits with our human evolution. Hunt or be hunted.
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 9 years & counting
Age 65
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
Mar/18 22.2

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.

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Post by ladybird30 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:14 am

I think of the No S rules as like wearing a seat belt in a car. In some countries I would have a free choice not to wear a restraining seat belt, but I would be putting myself unnecessarily at risk if I didn't. Similarly with choosing to wear a bike helmet and losing that unrestrained feeling of the wind in my hair.

Choice is a favourite mantra of industry groups who want us to keep consuming their unhealthy products, so is a word to be cautious of in some contexts.
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Post by oolala53 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:27 pm

Riley doesn't say choice will always feel good. In fact, it often won't because of what I like to call the seductive nature of many foods. Do I choose to put up with feeling like it's restrictive and punitive not to eat willy nilly, and reap the benefit of enduring the discomfort, or decide to eat to relieve the pressure and accept that I am willing to reinforce the habit? Her slant is interesting because she is saying that given freedom, we can choose to tolerate the discomfort and wait for our next eating time. (Do you agree that her concept of Times and Amounts are similar to the 3-meal structure? It's just that with No S, we determine that ahead of time. I think that has a better chance of success than going by the vagaries of the day. We can always do that on S days.)

I never believe anyone who says anything like this is easy. I do think a firm dislike of the options and a degree of faith in the plan can help make it easiER to adhere to the chosen eating plan.
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SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
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Post by Octavia » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:05 am

Gillian’s concept of ‘Times and Plans’ is very No S-like, I think. I always thought that was one of her best contributions. But I reckon No S is more doable, as the three meals a day are pre-decided, as you said, Oolala. I found Times and Plans required more mindfulness (or maybe ‘bandwidth’ is the right word) that I had. She is such an interesting writer, though. I think her philosophies have helped me stick to No S, even though by themselves her books weren’t enough to help me.

Happy S days, everyone!

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Post by oolala53 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:38 am

I agree on Gillian. I still keep her book Say Goodbey to Overeating on my shelf. I think I first had a library copy years before, probably of Eating Less, which to me is a brilliant title because that's what it really boils down to, because I just remember it vaguely. Later, after a few years of No S, I got a used copy of SGTO and I have it all marked up! So much insightful stuff! I LOVE her stuff on your reasons why, my bias being that aiming for weight loss itself is a mistake. I fully admit that I am still affected by the cursed scale and my appearance, but it's not the driving factor.

I like to think of myself as managing my tendency to overeat. I tuned in to one of her free online sessions (a promo for her course, which I would actually recommend to people who keep trying without success to reduce their eating), and used that word. She started to take issue with it, but I sidestepped. I wasn't going to duke it out with the maestra online! I certainly have more respect for her than most diet doctors.
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 9 years & counting
Age 65
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
Mar/18 22.2

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Post by Octavia » Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:33 pm

Yes, Gillian’s thing about weight loss NOT being a good motivator is important. And that took me a long time to understand. I used to argue that vanity was as much a motivator as the more vague and abstract concept of self-esteem (which Gillian talks about a lot), but eventually I realised that I was indeed only able to stick to a plan once I’d given up the idea of weight loss as my main motivator. My old logic was ‘I will eat less/eat better as long as it makes me lose weight.’ But when weight loss became elusive, then so did my willingness to eat less/better. And I began to eat in a health-compromising way, defeated by my own logic.

Only when I realised that I had to give up this unhealthy style of eating whether or not I was rewarded by weight loss did I find the strength to stick to a plan - No S.

So what’s my main motivator now? It’s hard to describe precisely, but it’s something like knowing that either I do No S or I’m stuck in a vicious circle where I’m compelled to undermine my own physical and mental health. It’s perhaps a negative motivation as much as anything.

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Post by oolala53 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:41 pm

Octavia, that is exactly my main motivator. It's basically more painful to live with systematic overeating than not. Talk about taking a long time to get something! Decades. But it was also more painful to think traditional dieting was the solution. Then it became a point of pride.
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 9 years & counting
Age 65
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
Mar/18 22.2

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.

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Post by automatedeating » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:09 pm

Ha! I was just about to say that Octavia is starting to sound like Oolala and that I think we have another WiseWoman of the tribe coming up the mentoring chain! :-)
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Post by Octavia » Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:31 am

Well that’s definitely an honour, to be compared to Oolala! :) Not sure I deserve it, as I’m just an almost-beginner groping my way along....but thanks, Auto!

I’ve had quite a good green day. Doing Habitcal again, and it’s encouraging to see the green days building up. But I still haven’t weighed myself self since before Christmas. Afraid that my calm habit building will be unsettled if I find I’ve got heavier. I do feel a little heavier, but I’m still fitting into those old skirts. Tonight I tried on a favourite old halter neck sun dress which is one of my smallest garments, and it was still too tight, but I could do it up!

Went on a long walk today and ate plenty of fruit and veg, so feeling quite good. I had a cup of tea with milk before bed, and I do feel quite empty. Hope I sleep ok.

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Post by Octavia » Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:23 am

I decided it was time to do a weigh-in this morning. Bah, I am up by 3lb! And I suspect it’s not a blip, though time will tell. There’s no point panicking. There’s no point doing anything that isn’t a habit. All I can do is stay committed to the No S lifestyle. Christmas was a bit mad this year...and leading up to it, I had become less strict. But the Habitcal is back on. Hope I’ll start making progress again.

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Post by Soprano » Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:40 pm

Best to face it and get motivated again, bet it's gone by mid Feb :)

Jx
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Post by Octavia » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:41 am

Thanks, Soprano!

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Post by Imogen Morley » Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:43 pm

I second what Soprano said. But you already know that. There’s no point doing anything that isn’t a habit - that's a great catchphrase to help us NoSers stay focused on the big prize.

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Post by Octavia » Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:41 pm

I was out all day yesterday and felt a bit tired and unwell. I’m fine though today. I spent quite a lot of time planning some new habits and goals, though knowing that you can’t build too many new habits all at once. The brain can’t forge all those new pathways through the brambles all in one go. My problem is that I have so many interests and desires in life, that I’m overwhelmed and unable to make decisions. I end up paralysed. After many years of a very busy working life, I’m now fortunate enough to have some free time, at least some of the time. It varies, but I know how lucky I am. But it’s so hard to use that time well! I know (as Imogen affirmed) that there’s no point doing anything that isn’t a habit. I want to create a structure for my life where there’s regular creativity, regular physical activity, regular organisation (Fly Lady type stuff)....instead of waking up every morning trying to choose from 100 things that all need doing with equal urgency. And ending up doing nothing until someone else makes a demand on me!

Anyway, I think what I’ve learned about habits is going to help me. I have to make more of my time, stop the constant procrastination. I intend to do this one small habit at a time!

Food wise, I’ve found it hard today - tired after yesterday’s stressful day, and craving the release of an indulgent feast of some kind. I have made two small hot chocolate drinks to get me through - one this afternoon (made DDs dinner before ours and felt so hungry as I served it up!) and one this evening (just feeling fed up to be honest). Not ideal, but I’m determined to stay green even if it means taking in a few too many calories.

I’ve had a green week! :)

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Post by Soprano » Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:31 am

Sorry you are feeling unwell.

Re all the things to do, why not make a list...

Write down what you want to achieve, then break it down in to weekly tasks to complete by X date. Then each week assign small tasks to each day. Leave yourself room for the unexpected to derail you and have days off but time spent focusing now leaves you brain space to achieve :)

I've just started a new job and am feeling overwhelmed with all that needs doing, I knew this when I took the job. It was good to write down all I needed to do. I've not yet broken it down to weekly tasks!
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Last edited by Soprano on Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Imogen Morley » Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:32 pm

Congratulations on your green week, you're an unending source of inspiration for me. I’m determined to stay green even if it means taking in a few too many calories - I should get that tattooed on the inside of my eyelids, ha!

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Post by oolala53 » Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:36 pm

Octavia, not to make excuses for ourselves, but mental focus researcher Csikszentmihalyi (author of Flow. Have you heard of it?) found that people have much more trouble with finding satisfaction in free time than it would seem, since they complain so much about working. But I find that his concept of finding flow becomes another burden of idealism.

I haven't taken her up on it yet- just got suggested to me late Friday night- but a friend said she and another friend make commitments to each other for "work" days. They are both retired and procrastinating on projects. They decide on a certain day and tell each other what they will work on that day. Then they report to each other at the end of the day. I said I would commit to a few hours of working on different rooms for 14/15-minute stints. Sometimes I just do 11.

All I can muster these days is spending some time most days thinking about how good it will feel to have two things done- clear the next level of clutter , and get my carport frame stabilized. I usually just focus on how uncomfortable it is to do the tasks. OH, how I hate dealing with work men! That's probably the wrong outlook to keep up front, but it sure does come naturally!
Count plates, not calories. Three a day. 9 years & counting
Age 65
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
Jan/12-26.8
Mar/13-24.9 Stayed at +/- 8-lb. for three years Sept/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
Mar/18 22.2

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.

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Post by automatedeating » Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:05 pm

Octavia - when I am thinking about stuff I want to get balanced in my life, I just focus on the things that are bugging me the most. Oh Gosh, I made that sound too easy, didn't I, lol? My husband gets paralyzed by indecision, I've noticed. That literally has never happened to me in my entire life. :P :P :lol: :lol: :shock: :shock: I guess I rush in and then deal with my mistakes & failures as I make them. But I wouldn't trade that for indecision.

Anyway, so from Ms. Impulsive over here (who has Lady Twirltongue sitting on her amygdala sipping from a bottle of cheap wine) - I suggest just picking a couple things that you are most EXCITED/MOTIVATED to change. Let the other stuff go. That way, the change is actually kind of fun, and not just drudgery.
And track it baby - track it! What we don't track, we don't change (in my experience).
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Post by Octavia » Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:21 pm

So much brilliant advice from you guys! Thanks so mugh Auto, Soprano, Oolala and Imogen! I’m finding useful pointers in everything you’ve written, so huge thanks to you all. Soprano- the calming and focussing power of lists! I have forgotten this. Imogen, staying green is definitely my priority. Because however many calories I’m taking in through my calorific drinks and non-diet meals, it’s not as much as I was taking in before.
Oolala - uncanny that you should mention how the concept of finding flow becomes another burden of idealism. I sort of sensed that when I read Csikszentmihalyi’s book ages ago - but I couldn’t put my finger on what I didn’t like about the whole thing. You’ve hit the nail on the head, absolutely.

I’ve had a few moments of flow today, and I’m grateful for them. Long periods of unselfconscious absorption in a fascinating task are a real luxury for us adults, I feel. sometimes at work, it comes. Those are the moments when I’m least likely to be thinking about chocolate! Ah yes, it’s all linked....

Anyway, I’ve had another green day, hoping to make it a green January, but we’ll see.

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Post by Octavia » Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:20 pm

Just wanted to add, what Auto said about tracking - yes. Things must be tracked, or they just slip through the net into unconsciousness. I’m convinced that the success I’ve had on No S has been linked to tracking. And recently I have been able to make some new habits - again, though the power of tracking.

I’m going to try to be a bit more like you, Auto, in being less indecisive, and more inclined to act and then deal with the outcome. It’s a far better way to live. Great to know that it can be done! :)

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Post by Octavia » Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:01 pm

I've had a pretty good, green week. Weight has gone down by a pound since my post-Christmas weigh-in a couple of weeks ago. I'm still 2lb heavier than I was last November, though...but I suppose that's not too bad. Not trying to eat more lightly or anything, just doing Vanilla, though one good new development has been that DH has decided to cut down on red meat and eat more vegetarian food. So I do think that our meals have been healthier and possibly a bit lower calorie. This is a proper new habit, and one that isn't requiring any sort of sacrifice as far as I'm concerned, so that's all good!

This weekend, I'm going to try a slightly different approach. Since I started No S (in November 2017), my weekends have been full of "high reward" foods, the Class A drugs of the food world, such as high quality milk chocolate. I've eaten it freely, meaning as much as my stomach will endure - ie. rather a lot. Well I've started wondering if I could substitute "Class B" food drugs as my S day treats! Things that are still delicious and worthy of anticipation, yet are not as addictively rewarding (for me) as chocolate. These are the things I tend to rarely eat, because they're neither healthy/light nor compulsively appealing. For instance, Victoria sponge cake rather than chocolate fudge cake, stem ginger cookies instead of double chocolate chip, Greek yoghurt and honey instead of chocolate mousse. The fact that I don't consume these things often should make them a pleasant novelty - rather like I discovered with kefir and milkshakes on N days. They were things I'd previously ignored as they were neither slimming nor addictively yummy. I might even try some home baking if I get time - again, an activity I've rarely bothered with, as I'd rather scoff super-fattening chocolate or just stay away from baked goods.

Anyway, I waited with curiosity to see how I'd feel today - Friday being the day when chocolate fantasies normally start to rise up. Well instead of looking forward to overeating chocolate and other Class A treats, I've started really looking forward to my Class B treats! I've bought a pack of hot cross buns (spiced currant buns), a couple of large ginger cookies, and a small Victoria sponge. I won't be eating them all, but might have a bun for breakfast, a cookie in the afternoon, and a slice of sponge cake as a dessert. I think this might be an effective way of manipulating for my compulsive brain patterns. It's very different from trying to substitute a bar of chocolate with an apple. I suspect that the novelty of these Class B treats (as well as their deliciousness) will represent a pleasant reward to my brain, and this could help me to overcome my historic chocolate fixation.

Stop laughing at the back! IT COULD WORK!!!!

:lol: :wink:

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Post by oolala53 » Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:57 pm

Who's laughing? It's worth an experiment. That's all we CAN do.
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Post by lpearlmom » Sat Jan 26, 2019 7:26 am

I agree—its worth a try! Our family is all vegetarian as of jan 1st and dh is already looking slimmer to me.

Best of luck!
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Post by Octavia » Sat Jan 26, 2019 10:24 pm

That’s interesting, Linda - I hope the same thing will happen in our house. DH is a tall lamppost but these last couple of years even he is looking a bit bigger around/just above the waist. So I really hope our switch to mostly veggie food will be a painless, non-dietty change for us all.

So, I tried out my mod - for I guess that’s what it is - focussing on what I call Class B treats at the weekend. So far it has worked really well! I’ve had no powerful cravings all day and have eaten in a much more normal, sensible way. It’s a bit of a revelation to me that treat substitution can work - but I always thought of it in terms of swapping a delicious addictive treat for something altogether unwanted, eg. Like swapping a choc bar for a chat on the phone, a hot bath or a cup of herbal tea. That has never worked for me. But swapping one’s most compulsively desired foods for things that are slightly different, still unarguably a treat yet less addictive, seems to be tricking my brain. If this continues to work, I might decide to have Class A treats on social occasions only, such as birthdays and Christmas. Right now, this sort of talk sounds ridiculously ambitious. But as you said Oolala, we can only experiment. And this one does feel like an extension of the process that got me doing green weekdays in the first place. I replaced solid snacks with drinks. So now it’s a case of replacing those highly calorific and addictive S day treats with slightly different, less damaging treats.

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Post by oolala53 » Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:31 pm

Whatever truly satisfies on the levels needed, before during AND after. And you can't really know that in imagination.
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Jan/12-26.8
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There is no S better than Vanilla No S.

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Post by automatedeating » Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:46 am

I love experiments! And I think that as long as we regard the results as simply....data.....then we learn from the failures and find solutions that actually work long-term. So go you!
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Post by ladybird30 » Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:18 am

I used the substitution method very successfully a decade ago to wean myself of my No 1 "Class A" binge food. I would walk around the supermarket promising myself I could buy any else, just not that. Eventually I discovered a "Class B" fat/sugar substitute which I ate instead which just didn't have the same addictive properties, and which I also eventually stopped eating. So it can work.

A year after I stopped eating my class a food, I had some at a function. It didn't do anything for me, and I haven't had any since.
Three meals a day - not too little not too much, but just right

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Post by Octavia » Mon Jan 28, 2019 11:09 pm

Ladybird, that’s fantastic! Real encouragement for me. My experiment certainly worked for the first weekend. I will definitely do it again.

I’ve just made the most almighty goof and have accidentally deleted my Habitcal. I was trying to delete a new habit I had been working on, so ticked it, then can’t quite remember what happened, but everything EXCEPT that habit disappeared. AAAAAGGGHHHH!!! MY HABITCAL!!!!! :(

Maybe it doesn’t matter, I rarely looked back at how I did in previous months. How I’m doing now, this week, is more important. But it feels like a sad little loss. And I feel very stupid. But the instructions weren’t clear. Well not to a fool like me. :roll:

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Post by Dalia negra » Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:26 am

Octavia, send a message to Reinhard, as he can retrieve all your data. I do not know if this is possible, but just in case...

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Post by automatedeating » Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:33 am

Oh, Octavia sorry to hear about this.
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Post by Octavia » Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:01 pm

Thanks for the sympathy, guys! I think I’ll just start afresh with a new Habitcal. I’ve a pretty good picture in my head as to how I did last year. I started quite well, got better, had several totally green months, became less strict in the Autumn, lost it completely around Christmas, but got back on track as January 2019 progressed. I might create some dummy habits then I can experiment with deleting them and make sure I don’t delete everything by accident! It made me realise how I’d feel if Reinhard shut down this forum for some reason, and I lost all my posts, and lost touch with everyone here. It really would be awful!

Hurrah - today my weight was back at its pre-Christmas level. This may be a blip, but it was very nice to see.

Since Christmas I’ve been focusing on reestablishing my vanilla habit, also working on other habits too: starting each day with a glass of water and lemon juice, drinking more water during the day, putting out my clothes for the next day so I’m reasonably smart and don’t just slob around in rags, and getting up earlier. Exercise has gone into the background, as I knew I’d never succeed if I was trying to do too many things at once. I just don’t have the bandwidth. These simple habits have been surprisingly challenging. For instance, I’m loathe to drink a bottle of water when likely to be stuck on a toilet-free train. I’m also loathe to force myself to get up early after a bad, restless night - the times I’ve forced myself to do this have led to a. a disastrous headache and b. falling asleep on the sofa after breakfast. That was the habit I decided to delete when I had my Habitcal disaster!

I do need to start exercising again, but I want to do it in a habit-like way. Not sure how to approach it - my life feels quite stuffed full right now. I’ve got a lot of work on this week. Actually- duh - Reinhard tackles all of this with his shovel glove concept. How we must make moderate goals...how even when we become enthusiastic and committed, extra time for exercise will not magically open up. I always found his 14’ a day advice a bit uninspiring - it offers no shining promises of bodily transformation - but as always, he is wise. If I’d done 14’ a day for the last year, I’d probably be quite a bit fitter than I am now.

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Post by Octavia » Fri Feb 01, 2019 3:58 pm

All going well, and it feels great to be back on track, really into the Vanilla habit and back at my lower weight. I wonder if, with my refreshed commitment post-Christmas, whether I can lose a bit more weight this year (so hilarious how in my dieting days I would expect results in a few days!!! Now I think in terms of months and years). This new mod of ‘No Class A treats’ at weekends could be the key to losing a bit more. Already for this weekend I’m coming up with ideas for treats that are ‘one step down’ from the things I can really lose control over. Since last week, when I ate quite a lot of sweet stuff in place of my usual chocolate (clocking up far fewer calories, because I don’t feel a compulsion to overeat those other treats), I have felt less addicted to chocolate. I feel I could easily manage another weekend without it, whilst still experiencing that pleasant release of control that comes from eating non-N Day fodder. Feeling quite positive! I’ve forgotten how it felt (pre-No S) to be so powerless over my eating habits and my weight. But that is how I used to feel. There seemed to be no alternative to either giving up hope, or trying over and over again to diet. What a merry go round. This moderation lark is rather magical!

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Re: Octavia is finally checking in!

Post by Octavia » Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:31 pm

A few more green days under my belt. But the weekend went a bit mad. My policy of avoiding Class A treats foundered a little, as I overate not-particularly-delicious sweet snacks in an attempt to distract myself away from delicious chocolate, my binge food. I ended up wondering if I’d have been better off just eating the chocolate, as any IE book would advise. Still not sure, though. I think there’s something to be said for opening one’s mind to different foods rather than heading straight for the old compulsives. But one thing I did notice this weekend was that several times I really did make a genuine, free choice decision to eat healthily or not eat at all, for the sake of how I’d end up feeling. It’s just that later in the day, compulsive eating took over. Perhaps a little progress was made.

I’m not doing Habitcal right now, ever since I accidentally deleted my history. I’m thinking in terms of green squares, though. I probably should get back to doing it properly, or things will slide.

I know this seems a bit daft, but I have a sentimental attachment to the old style forum. It looks all modern and official now, somehow less hidden away, unlikely to be discovered by unwanted prying eyes. I feel exposed by this new stylishness....!

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Re: Octavia is finally checking in!

Post by automatedeating » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:19 am

Hi Octavia!

I'm sorry to hear that your Class-A/B treat idea didn't pan out quite liked you had hoped, but at least it WAS S Days. :-) And now you have a bit more data to analyze! :mrgreen:

I find it humorous that the bulletin upgrade reveals all of us for the toddlers we are - either those that demand constant stimulation or those of us that abhor change.
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3; 8/14-24.5; 5/15-26.2; 1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6; 8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9; 3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8; 1/19-23.4; 2/19-22.7; 3/19-22.1

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lpearlmom
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Re: Octavia is finally checking in!

Post by lpearlmom » Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:23 am

It is interesting to see the different reactions to the bew board. Im definitely in the “i dont like change” camp with you Octavia. And that feeling oddly exposed explains it perfectly. Thats why I stopped doing my blog for now, I just felt too exposed and couldnt relax enough to write anything real. Well that and l dont really have time to post in a million different places. This is my preferred medium for sure.

Gl with your continued experimentation.
💜💜💜 Please no body or food shaming. Eyes on your own plate. 💜💜💜

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automatedeating
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Re: Octavia is finally checking in!

Post by automatedeating » Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:50 pm

Linda - I also stopped my "moderation management" postings. Too much to post in both places, and as you said, this is my preferred medium.

To both of you - I hope that you soon feel more OK with our glitzy, but (hopefully) spamless forum.
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3; 8/14-24.5; 5/15-26.2; 1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6; 8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9; 3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8; 1/19-23.4; 2/19-22.7; 3/19-22.1

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Octavia
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Re: Octavia is finally checking in!

Post by Octavia » Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:18 pm

Hi Linda and Auto! Sorry I’ve not checked in with you for a while. I’m sure I’ll get used to the new style forum. If we get less spam, then that’s good.

Have got another green week under my belt, but haven’t weighed myself since last weekend’s excess. I’ve been excessive again this weekend. It takes ages to get over this, doesn’t it? Perhaps I haven’t been experimental enough. Yesterday I had chocolate, as I craved, and it did at least stop me from random grazing. But today I’ve done both! Grazing AND large quantities of chocolate . Ah well. Not sure how I’ll proceed next week; I am out of ideas. I will just continue to do vanilla as I did before. And hope that I get more of those feelings of natural restraint, natural moderation. I do feel, however, that I now have enough willpower, enough skill, to set some sort of arbitrary challenge, such as no sweets for a fortnight. I’ve got used to the feeling of waiting, so perhaps I could try that; it’s an extension of the vanilla No S rhythm. The point of this would be a. to avoid calories in the short term (though that might be somewhat pointless...) and b. to convince myself that I really don’t need those treats. Thus to weaken the habit a little further. Interesting...

I really need to get exercise going again, but as I said the other day, I’ve been working so hard building other habits, albeit pathetically small ones. You wouldn’t believe how hard I find it to drink a small bottle of water a day. There is always a reason not to: I’m on the train, I’m at work and it’s highly inconvenient to go to the loo, it’s nearly bedtime, I’m busy drinking tea and coffee....yadda yadda. However, I keep trying. Habit experts warn us not to try to build too many habits at once. The question for me would be when would I do my habitual 14’ of exercise? It has to be at a predictable time every day. But my days are all different.

It’s been a busy weekend and I’m very tired so not making much headway here. Will return when fresher!

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Octavia
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Re: Octavia is finally checking in!

Post by Octavia » Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:00 pm

Oh dear, today has been terrible as far as eating is concerned. I’ve had two cream cakes and a whole box of these Turkish delight chocolate thins (Tesco, extremely nice, just £1 a box) All bar two. I suddenly thought, I have to stop.

I do worry sometimes that No S is for me a bit like undereating for 5 days, overeating for 2, over and over again...a bit like dieting really. Diet, binge, diet, binge. I’m not even trying to focus on weight loss as I worry I’ll lose my equilibrium and my green week days will founder. Perhaps I fear being even more hungry on weekdays and caving in. No S is hard enough while eating non-diet foods...if I try to go lighter or more low calorie, or try to impose rules on my weekends, might I lose everything I’ve gained? On the other hand, perhaps I need to give greater attention to weight loss, now I have these skills (skills of delaying gratification). I’ve learned to not hope for weight loss, even though I have indeed lost 10 lb on No S. Weight loss still seems like a sad, doomed pipe dream. I just don’t want to get the diet mentality again. Yes, it always feels so exciting at first, but the burst of motivation doesn’t last. That’s one of the things I love about No S - I can still do it when I have no motivation at all, when life gets so busy that I don’t care about my figure or even the possible avoidance of possible future disease.

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Re: Octavia is finally checking in!

Post by Octavia » Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:26 pm

...Reinhard says it’s best to not try to modify our S days till we’re really secure on our N days. Well maybe I’ve reached that stage - I am pretty secure on my N days. Perhaps i should do the modification I came up with earlier this evening: just delay my sweets for another week....have them once a fortnight! It’s a nice, simple, clear mod. It still treats sweets as somehow important/necessary though, so it doesn’t exactly challenge their ‘treat’/addictive status. Perhaps there’s no way to do that, once your brain has been wired that way. Brain surgery! That’s what I need. :lol:

It might be fun to come up with some low-willpower ways to turn No S into more of a weight-loss diet for me. But any adjustments would require mindfulness (or what Oolala calls ‘bandwidth’, a phrase I love!) There’s no point saying ‘I’m going to have poached egg and spinach on a muffin for breakfast’ and then realise that I’ve not had chance to go to the shop to buy the stuff, or perhaps have simply forgotten. Or planning to have salad every day then realising that you’ve run out of tomatoes. These things are commitments, and that takes bandwidth! Of which I don’t have much! However, having sweets only one weekend out of two does not require much bandwidth, does it? Strength, yes; focus/organisation, no. Perhaps I should go with this.

Speaking of mindfulness/bandwidth, I’m reminded of Brian Wansink’s book, the one about saving 100 cals a day in ways you don’t even notice. The trouble with his book was, for me, that I used to overeat by more than 100 calories a day. I already used small plates and dishes, and kept treats out of sight. And I probably would be a lot fatter without these things. He had lots of good points to make. I just don’t think there are any other subtle, unnoticeable things I can do to reduce how much I eat. I will certainly notice not having any sweets next weekend, should I decide to do that!

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Re: Octavia is finally checking in!

Post by automatedeating » Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:46 pm

Hi Octavia - lots of great thoughts in here. Thank you so much for posting your experiences, and especially your reflections on how things are going and strategies for moving forward.

I think - that when your desire to avoid the icky feeling of an overdone weekend is GREATER than the desire for the fun of the momentary yummies -- then you will start moderating your weekends more. That's how you know it's the right time to do it. Maybe you feel that time to be now. Worst case scenario, you try and fail and then start messing up your N Days too. Ya know, that's really not the end of the world. You'll know you weren't ready to regulate your S Days yet! Or it will work!

For me personally, I never have made rules about regulating my S Days. I DO make a plan for what I'm going to eat on S Days, and I try to avoid snacking so meals taste better. But there's no such thing for me as a fail on an S Day. All that said, I've never really felt that I go crazy on the weekends. If that had been a problem for me, maybe I would have been more likely to try to control my S Days. But seriously, now that I'm writing this, it seems like there is something inside of that person (that overeats TOO MUCH on S Days) that is rebelling against rules. Having more rules seems like it could backfire. But now that I say that, maybe for someone that truly can't stop from going overboard -- they need to never ever have free reign. Damn. This is hard. I'm sorry I don't have answers, but I love to hear your thoughts. You are such a creative thinker and I appreciate your thread greatly. Funny lady, too. Thanks for making me laugh.
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3; 8/14-24.5; 5/15-26.2; 1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6; 8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9; 3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8; 1/19-23.4; 2/19-22.7; 3/19-22.1

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Re: Octavia is finally checking in!

Post by margot17 » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:47 pm

Hi Octavia! I don't have any suggestion because I am a total noob, and besides my last S-weekend has come out a disaster, but wanted to come say hi.
automatedeating wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:46 pm
I DO make a plan for what I'm going to eat on S Days, and I try to avoid snacking so meals taste better.
I think I will do that too from now on.
Does that basically mean that the only S you do in the weekend is sweets?

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Re: Octavia is finally checking in!

Post by sharon227 » Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:39 am

It's a tough one. Restrictions and forbiddens can feel like a "diet," but going totally wild every day - or even 2 days out of 7 - probably isn't a great long-term strategy for our health, let alone weight loss. The best advice I can offer is to pay attention to how you feel while you are eating, and after you eat.

What do you enjoy and feel good after eating? What do you enjoy while eating but don't feel so great afterwards? What "treat" do you have on an S Day because it was "forbidden" during the week, that turns out to not be quite as enjoyable as you imagined? What do you start eating and feel like you just can't stop?

South Beach diet recommends a 2-week "Phase One" that cuts out all carbs - even healthy ones - to try to re-regulate your blood sugar and cut back on cravings. I did it a couple of times, and it's not a bad approach. After 2 weeks of not even fruit, adding back a fruit a day tastes quite a bit sweeter than it did when I was having M&Ms as snacks every day. And then you gradually add back the healthy carbs.

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Re: Octavia is finally checking in!

Post by automatedeating » Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:39 am

Hi Octavia -
Hmmm, I'm not sure exactly how to answer your question about my S Days S's..... I always track my meals (and like we discussed I plan my meals tentatively) and I think I end up virtual plating a lot on S Days, so what you see as "one meal" might actually have actually been sort of a grazing meal. If I have apple slices, I often list them as part of a meal. I think it's hard for me to articulate how my S Days go. I can say that I don't go wild - there's always a bit of "moderation mommy" in my head. But she's reasonable in my head and doesn't usually cause me to lose my mind and go crazy. **snow days excepted** I'm losing my mind and feel like the guy in The Shining at this point.

Sharon - re: getting rid of sugar. I agree totally with the "reset" of the palate. Apple slices are like an explosion of sweetness in my mouth at this point.
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3; 8/14-24.5; 5/15-26.2; 1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6; 8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9; 3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8; 1/19-23.4; 2/19-22.7; 3/19-22.1

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Re: Octavia is finally checking in!

Post by margot17 » Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:06 am

That was actually me asking (sorry O for inserting), and thank you AE for your answer. Yes I guess S-days are not made for clear-cut positions...
:lol: the Shining.

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Re: Octavia is finally checking in!

Post by automatedeating » Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:12 pm

Oops, sorry Margot and Octavia! I guess the new format has been making me get mixed up sometimes about who is posting. I've caught myself making that mistake on other entries too.
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Re: Octavia is finally checking in!

Post by Octavia » Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:05 am

So lovely to read your responses. Thanks so much, Auto, Sharon, Margot. I haven’t had time to check back in - I’m sure if I posted more often, it would help me, rather than count as pootling around on the internet! I should let myself do it.

Today I had a surprising fail. All was going well, and indeed my weight had dropped by a quarter of a pound (hey, that makes it sound like a huge burger!) :lol: So I was going along quite nicely. But over the last two days, I’ve had some work deadlines - not hugely stressful, and yet there’s been pressure, and I was working late last night, hardly slept, and was working on a quite tedious, tiring project today. When I stopped, it was about 5pm, and I was due to start making dinner, but was absolutely exhausted, drained mentally and physically from sitting at the computer for ages. I started to feel a bit jittery and low, and made a decision that I just needed to eat. I had three chocolate biscuits and a pack of crisps. Then some ice cream, which was more gratuitous. I felt so much better. Then I had dinner a bit later. The large, calorific snack was a sort of calculated decision rather than a compulsive thing, but I’m a bit sad it happened. Ah well. I did consider getting some juice or a hot chocolate, which is my usual N day response to this sort of crisis, but somehow the idea of liquid sustenance repulsed me!

Not sure how I’ll approach my S days this time round. You know what? I think I’ll just carry on as before. I think what I need in my life right now is exercise, and that’s where I should direct my willpower. I really do have faith that No S is slowly changing my approach to food, and that my S days will settle as the healthy impulses become stronger.

Thanks for all your support! :)

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Re: Octavia is finally checking in!

Post by automatedeating » Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:09 am

Carry on!
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Re: Octavia is finally checking in!

Post by sharon227 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:44 am

One of the best things I read about exercise is to think of it just like your job. You probably don't decide every day whether or not you're going to work (or working at home). When it's a work day, most people work unless there's a super good reason not to. Exercise should be the same. It's an even more important job, because your health depends on it (especially as you get older).

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Re: Octavia is finally checking in!

Post by clarinetgal » Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:40 pm

Hi, Octavia! I love to exercise. I find it helps me feel SO much better. As for the eating fail, being tired and under stress is definitely a challenging combination. I think just getting back on track makes sense.
Committing to a fresh start, with 3-4 plates and no snacking.

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Octavia
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Re: Octavia is finally checking in!

Post by Octavia » Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:49 pm

Thanks Sharon and Clarinetgal. I so appreciate these words of support. Exercise is such a no-brainer - it gives both immediate and long term benefits. I just need to get back to it, though I’ve been neglecting it temporarily in a sort of purposeful way while I try to get other, newer habits established. But the time has come to get it back into my life. And that approach is so sensible, of treating it like a job. You HAVE TO do it. Unless you’re ill.

Yesterday and today have both been very busy, with work and social commitments that have meant no time to cook or eat properly, and of course, alcohol. Yesterday’s lunch was two glasses of wine and a pack of peanuts! :oops: Dinner, a stodgy Starbucks panini with a fruit salad! :roll: Arghhh. But sometimes that’s how it goes. When I got home today, after a work engagement and then lunch with a friend, I felt so dehydrated and tired, and with my N day habits slightly weakened (after Wednesday’s fail) I did consider just giving myself a big, quick blood sugar boost again. But I’m happy to say that a healthier response kicked in, and I thought ‘I need to get back to optimum self-care as quickly as I can.’ So I had a cup of water with lemon juice and later, a cup of red bush tea. I made a dinner for DD, but am not ready to eat yet.

It’s been interesting how a couple of weeks of extra work and social commitments have affected me. The extra busyness has forced my self-care habits to take a back seat, and feelings of stress and occasional anxiety have risen up. For instance when we arrived at a venue yesterday evening, and had to wait in a noisy bar full of cool people, I felt really tired and tense, my stomach started getting upset, and for a while I was feeling a bit wobbly inside, while pretending very hard to be OK. Things settled down and I was fine, but it reminded me not to get too busy. (And not to have wine and peanuts for lunch.... :oops:)

I’m now feeling cross that the weekend, too, is full of social and work commitments. And the following week, half term, we’re travelling to my elderly mum’s to look after her, which is quite challenging. ‘I’ll cancel the carers, then,” she says, while I secretly think NO! please don’t cancel the carers!!!! Guilt. I just need a break right now and I’m not going to get one...double guilt.

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Re: Octavia is finally checking in!

Post by lpearlmom » Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:25 pm

Ugh, i so feel you. I hate having too many commitments and thetes no end in sight. Maybe you can plan some down time for yourself in the near future. Just having something to look forward to, even if its not soon, might help.

Goid job though going for the tea instead if the sweets. I know thats not easy.
💜💜💜 Please no body or food shaming. Eyes on your own plate. 💜💜💜

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Octavia
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Re: Octavia is finally checking in!

Post by Octavia » Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:41 pm

Thanks so much, Linda. I do need to think of some small moments everyday that can be filled with self care, things just for me. And also maybe think of some bigger things that can act as a reward when next week’s elderly parent caring is done. At the moment I feel that a duvet day would be helpful... also a long walk...a shopping trip alone...and the instigation of a daily exercise routine. Perhaps I can fit these things in! It’s so important to have an agenda - I find I’m so easily swept along by other people’s plans, because I don’t have anything concrete to oppose them with. That’s fine sometimes, being flexible, but you can end up with a sort of inner vacuum, not knowing what you DO want to do.

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Re: Octavia is finally checking in!

Post by automatedeating » Sat Feb 16, 2019 1:14 am

I just need a break right now and I’m not going to get one...double guilt.
Ah, Octavia, my heart goes out to you. Hugs. This too shall pass, but I sure hope it passes soon and you are able to get some much-needed you-time.

If at possible can you cancel any weekend commitments? Just say you're sick (to death of obligations that is!) or something.

And, at the risk of really sounding bossy, can you make sure the carers DON'T get cancelled? :? Like call the company or something really forceful like that?

Whatever happens, hang in there. You definitely seem different lately, and I would love to see your "bridget jones" side get a chance to shine more in 2019.
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3; 8/14-24.5; 5/15-26.2; 1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6; 8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9; 3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8; 1/19-23.4; 2/19-22.7; 3/19-22.1

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Re: Octavia is finally checking in!

Post by Octavia » Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:57 pm

Thanks for the hugs, Auto! Please don’t worry, I haven’t changed at all. :) My Briget Jones side is still strong! In fact, I said a very firm NO to an imposition today, which would have spoilt a fun and frivolous project.

Actually, it’s really good to get your feedback, that you would ensure the carers don’t get cancelled. I assumed I was just being selfish. The thing is, my mum would much prefer ME to do the carer work then she has more control over when she gets up, eats, and goes to bed. So it’s like a nice vacation for her....not being woken at the crack of dawn by a stranger coming in. But it’s an anti-vacation for me of course. I will cope!

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Re: Octavia is finally checking in!

Post by Octavia » Mon Feb 18, 2019 1:36 pm

I’m feeling a lot better today. I’ve had a long sleep, and despite the elderly parent challenges of this coming week, there’s less commuting, work deadlines, socialising, alcohol situations etc. than last week. Also, I’ve managed to break my recent exercise inertia. Had a long walk on Sunday, even though I was exhausted (commuting, work) and walked round the park literally yawning and feeling like I was carting round a ton of excess fat. And then later, determined to start a proper daily habit, I did 14’ of movement, following Reinhard’s advice. I did it again today. I am back in the game. My other habits aren’t perfect yet, but you can’t wait till they are perfect till you add another one, can you? You’d be waiting forever. That’s one thing that I don’t think Loretta Graziano Breuning quite gets. (She’s my new favourite habit-guru). She advises that you do a habit for 45 days without fail before you add another. I get the idea of not trying to establish too many new healthy habits in one go, but I can’t spend my entire life trying to drink a small bottle of water every day without fail. I’d end up on my death bed saying in a quavering voice, ‘I never did quite manage to drink that water every day. Never did anything else, either...’!! :lol:


So my current Everyday Systems are:
Lemon water (a glass every day)
Water bottle
No S diet (of course)
Put out clothes for the next day every evening
14’ of movement.


I do want to do more exercise than that, and get back to my running, but those extra things are harder to do on a daily basis, and I need something i really can and will do every day.

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Re: Octavia is finally checking in!

Post by automatedeating » Mon Feb 18, 2019 2:20 pm

Put out clothes for the next day every evening
This one is my favorite! :lol: I have developed a "thing" for the power that implementing the easiest habit is for changing our lives. Although I think my changing into yoga clothes is easier than your laying out work clothes the night before. If I'm in a not-great-mental-space, why for the life of me cannot I choose what to wear that day????!!!! I'm all for the capsule wardrobe.
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3; 8/14-24.5; 5/15-26.2; 1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6; 8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9; 3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8; 1/19-23.4; 2/19-22.7; 3/19-22.1

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Re: Octavia is finally checking in!

Post by sharon227 » Mon Feb 18, 2019 2:40 pm

Oh, Octavia, caring for an elderly parent is so stressful. My heart goes out to you as well. It’s very difficult not to feel guilty, because no matter what you do, there is always more to be done.

I’m glad you are feeling better today. Getting enough sleep is so important! Hard for a day to go well if you are feeling tired, isn’t it.

I agree with you about the habits. While it makes sense not to try to change too many things at once, waiting for something to be perfect before moving onto the next thing isn’t very practical. Working on the water and exercise together makes some sense to me. Especially since the water part doesn’t need much time in your day.

Not that you asked :D but I do think that having 30 minutes of exercise as a short term goal is worthwhile. That’s one area where Reinhard and I disagree. Some minutes are certainly better than no minutes, but there are so many health benefits for getting in at least 30 minutes most days, even if in 10 minutes chunks. Although mood wise, I think doing the 30 minutes all at once is better, at least for me. A brisk 30 or 40 minutes walking is such a stress reducer!

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Re: Octavia is finally checking in!

Post by automatedeating » Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:16 pm

I do think that having 30 minutes of exercise as a short term goal is worthwhile. That’s one area where Reinhard and I disagree.
Sharon - you and Reinhard don't actually disagree on this AT ALL. His 14 minutes (Shovelglove) is designed as his alternative to weight-lifting. His Urban Ranger was that he walked everywhere! To work/from work and at lunchtime. Probably at least an hour every day.
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8/13-26.3; 8/14-24.5; 5/15-26.2; 1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6; 8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9; 3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8; 1/19-23.4; 2/19-22.7; 3/19-22.1

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Re: Octavia is finally checking in!

Post by Soprano » Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:13 pm

I'm not sure I agree exercise should be everyday. Dont get me wrong if you can do it everyday its got huge benefits but if you are struggling just do what you can.

I used to walk my dog everyday but due to my new job and the dog not really wanting to walk anymore some days it's hard to fit it in. I am however determined to do 2 30 min yoga sessions a week I try and stick to set days but they are moveable. I am definitely seeing improvement in what I can do in only those 2 sessions.
What really helped me stick with the yoga was acknowledging how much better I feel after doing it. So it's not a chore just an essential part of my life to help me feel better..
Good luck with your new habits :)

Jx
Never give up on a dream just because of the time it will take to accomplish it. The time will pass anyway.

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Re: Octavia is finally checking in!

Post by eschano » Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:39 pm

Hi Octavia, I hope you got a bit of a break and some time for self-care? That’s an area I am also struggling with right now even if I’m in a slightly easier situation. I’ve just started a yoga course and love it but wish it was 5 days a week rather than one ha!

As for S days, I actually couldn’t get my N days right until went off all sweets for one month. I feel my tastebuds have changed now and now I am allowing myself non-refined white sugar treats and it works perfectly for me. I baked some really lovey date-sweetened treats the last two weeks and I don’t go mental on them. That said, I do have to tighten my N days now as I have been on a very liberal vanilla NoS diet with an extra fourth meal for breastfeeding.
eschano - Vanilla rocks!

July 2012- January 2016
Started again July 2018

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Re: Octavia is finally checking in!

Post by sharon227 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:18 am

My doctor (the one who recommended NoS to me) is pretty firm about wanting me to exercise 6 days a week for 30 to 45 minutes. There are just so many good things that happen to your body when you're moving regularly (and so many bad things that happen when you don't). I realize it's tough if you're working full time and commuting and have family obligations, but I can't think of anything more important to make time for except eating and sleeping. What is more important than your health?

Sure, it makes sense to start with something that's manageable now, if that's just a couple of days a week. But I do think it's worth working up to regular exercise. However, that's me.

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Re: Octavia is finally checking in!

Post by margot17 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:03 am

Octavia wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 1:36 pm
Loretta Graziano Breuning .... (She’s my new favourite habit-guru).
I am a total noob about habits, so I can't say if 45 days is or is not a good line to draw, but I looked this author up and she seems interesting!

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Re: Octavia is finally checking in!

Post by Octavia » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:32 am

Hi all! Thanks for dropping by! For me, although the 14’ is short, it really helps with habit building. You can’t NOT have the time to do 14’. So it defeats excuses. I like it as a bottom line. Then in top of that, I can add more if I find I do have time. I do like to do more in fact, but somehow I can’t make it happen every day, and then I get demotivated. I’m going to re-read Reinhard’s chapter on shovelglove. He has a tactical and psychological approach to the 14’, calling it ‘statistically insignificant’ (I think that’s his phrase). A bit like No S itself, I initially thought ‘that can’t work’. But if I’d done 14’ every day (maybe with one or two days off, perhaps the S days) I’d be a lot fitter and stronger now!

I really enjoy exercise for the most part, so I don’t know why I’ve been so sporadic at it throughout my life. I guess other pressures just get in the way. I need to be a lot more stubborn. (It is my health, as you said Sharon!) I also think that I’ve been victim to unrealistic expectations. When I did the Couch 2 5K running scheme, I believed all the hype about it changing my body and life. I got to the end of the scheme, learned to run for 30’ without stopping, and all I had to show for it (that I could actually discern) was stronger knees. Now stronger knees is an achievement, and not to be sniffed at, but I was expecting stuff like amazing, toned legs, weight loss galore, greater speed and ease at running, higher self-esteem. Hahahahaha! (embittered laughter). I became disillusioned, thought it was all a sign of how useless and old I was, and gave up. (Mind you, I haven’t given up for ever, and I will return to it with a fresh attitude). I also find that after a while of doing a certain exercise, I stop feeling a high. That too demotivates me. I simply need to get wise to all this, because doing no exercise feels awful!

Eschano, it’s great to hear from you, and I was interested to hear that you gave up sweets for a month, and it changed your tastebuds. Sweets are my downfall at the weekend - chocolate and desserts, they feel so luxurious and indulgent. I’ve never actually tried giving them up, in case my S days lose their ‘pressure release’ quality. But you know what, I think I now have the skills to give it a go. I have to think carefully about this. On the other hand, if I don’t try, I’ll never know...!

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Re: Octavia is finally checking in!

Post by automatedeating » Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:46 pm

Octavia - I've been walking lots more since I became addicted to podcasts, lol. Now I look forward to going on a walk so that I can listen. At home, things are way too chaotic to try that.
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3; 8/14-24.5; 5/15-26.2; 1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6; 8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9; 3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8; 1/19-23.4; 2/19-22.7; 3/19-22.1

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Re: Octavia is finally checking in!

Post by Octavia » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:47 pm

Margot, I think Loretta Graziano Breuning has some really new and interesting things to contribute to our understanding of habits. Some of her chapters are slightly repetitive, as if in need of better editing, but I feel my understanding of my brain is far better since reading a couple of her books - one on happiness habits, the other on anxiety. They’ve moved me on a stage.

Auto - I found a similar thing happened when I went running. music was too annoying to run to - the speed was never right - so I started listening to podcasts. (I’ve a strange feeling I got this idea from you in the first place!) It was the only time I could actually do this - spend a little time educating myself! A great incentive to go running or walking - focussing on something quite different from fitness!

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Re: Octavia is finally checking in!

Post by margot17 » Wed Feb 20, 2019 11:38 am

Have you guys ever tried doing the stepper? A friend of mine had amazing results with it. She has one of those with the handles that can also move, although she doesn't use them to work on the arms. Of course breathing fresh air is better, but exercising indoors has its advantages in terms of compliance.

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Re: Octavia is finally checking in!

Post by automatedeating » Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:40 pm

Margot - my dog would give me a dirty look if I went on the stepper instead of going outside with him. :lol:
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3; 8/14-24.5; 5/15-26.2; 1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6; 8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9; 3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8; 1/19-23.4; 2/19-22.7; 3/19-22.1

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Re: Octavia is finally checking in!

Post by margot17 » Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:06 pm

automatedeating wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:40 pm
Margot - my dog would give me a dirty look if I went on the stepper instead of going outside with him. :lol:
:lol: :lol: Ha! sorry HappyBreeder...

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Re: Octavia is finally checking in!

Post by ladybird30 » Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:39 pm

There are lots of reasons I exercise, but one of my strongest motivations is keeping fit enough to do something I love, which is going for long walks with friends in our wonderful Australian bush.
Three meals a day - not too little not too much, but just right

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Re: Octavia is finally checking in!

Post by Octavia » Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:42 am

Good morning all. I have now completed a few days doing my 14’ of exercise a day, and I can see so clearly Reinhard’s point about keeping this a small but habitual goal. Small as it is, it still takes organisation to get away from the demands of family and work, to clear a little space in our cluttered house and to counteract my own resistance, summoning up the energy to do press-ups, jumping jacks, sit-ups and stretches. I can feel the benefits already, though, and the inertia that I’ve had for a few months is being worn away. So that’s good.

My weekends are still excessive in terms of treats. I keep wondering about applying more N day rules to them, creating more rules and mods, but I think it would backfire. I think I’ll just keep at it, keep doing Vanilla No S, and see if things evolve naturally. In the grand scheme of things, I’ve not been doing No S very long - one and a half years - so perhaps there will be a natural evolution towards wanting to keep myself hungry for meals. I do get a faint glimmer of that feeling. Generally though, I still find that the freedom of S days makes me want to have as much treat food as I can while the window is open! My weekends are are quite busy and stressful, which makes the idea of collapsing on the bed with a big bar of chocolate extra appealing. The relinquishing of willpower feels so nice. Would it damage the rhythm of No S if I tried to extend my willpower/vigilance into the weekend? I think it would, at the moment. Perhaps I need to keep on strengthening my N days and forget about the S days. Build on what’s working well.

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Re: Octavia is finally checking in!

Post by automatedeating » Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:50 pm

I keep wondering about applying more N day rules to them, creating more rules and mods, but I think it would backfire.
I agree. Focus on N Days. If you are gung-ho about wanting to see some sort of weight change, I would perhaps suggest that you consider go stricter on N Days, whatever that means for you. For me, that means staying away from starchy meals, but I'm sure it's different for everyone. Then, leave your S Days alone as the much-needed release valve.

Actually, after rereading your post, it sounds like even Vanilla N Days are not easily compliant for you? If that's the case, then I double agree with you - just keep working on solidifying N Days. Although I'd go out on a limb and say that avoiding starchy foods on N Days might make staying green on N Days easier; I just don't feel hungry like I used to when I ate spaghetti with abandon on an N Day (I mean, really, is there a stopping point with pasta? LOL).
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3; 8/14-24.5; 5/15-26.2; 1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6; 8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9; 3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8; 1/19-23.4; 2/19-22.7; 3/19-22.1

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