Advice for committing

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babybird
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2016 6:03 pm
Location: U.K

Advice for committing

Post by babybird » Sun May 10, 2020 11:20 pm

I rarely commit to any weight loss plan. I have no other option but to follow this plan for
Life. 24 + years of binge eating and bulimia along with a normal imbalance have led to a lifetime of struggles with my weight and eating habits.

I started yesterday and went from feeling uncomfortable From
Full after dinner to really hungry and craving more food within an hour. I didn’t give in. But woke up at 6 and couldn’t get back to sleep so had my breakfast early when I usually eat it around 1pm.

My appetite control is completely messed up. Plz help xxx
Recovering from a 26 year binge eating disorder

babybird
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2016 6:03 pm
Location: U.K

Re: Advice for committing

Post by babybird » Sun May 10, 2020 11:21 pm

I tried this plan in
2016 but left to follow a hundred of different methods of eating and didn’t stick with this simple and sensible
Plan.
Recovering from a 26 year binge eating disorder

ladybird30
Posts: 586
Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 10:41 pm

Re: Advice for committing

Post by ladybird30 » Mon May 11, 2020 4:47 am

Hi Babybird - I am not sure why your appetite swings like that, but here are a couple of things that might contribute

are you eating a balanced meal with enough fat, carbs & protein. I find that protein helps keep hunger at bay, and a high carb meal without any fat doesn't last very long

are you overstimulating the stretch receptors in your stomach by having too much volume from liquids or vegies? That can lead to uncomfortable
feelings of fullness. If at the same time your meal didn't contain enough calories or fat or protein, that might help explain why you then feel hungry
a short time later. I also suspect from my own experience that there might be a rebound effect from overstretching the stomach which might feel like hunger. However, I am guessing here.

I would like to gently suggest that unless you have a pressing medical problem or some other good reason, that you concentrate on eating 3 reasonable meals per day until your eating settles down. You might lose weight anyway, and permanent weight loss will be a lot easier once you have established regular eating pattern. It has been for me.
Three meals a day - not too little not too much, but just right

April
Posts: 99
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:50 pm

Re: Advice for committing

Post by April » Tue May 12, 2020 10:59 am

babybird, the reply from ladybird30 is SPOT ON. I agree with her comments 100%.
April

"Take the first step in faith. You don't have to see the whole staircase, just take the first step.”
- Martin Luther King, Jr.

oolala53
Posts: 9754
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:46 am
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Re: Advice for committing

Post by oolala53 » Sat May 16, 2020 7:36 am

Welcome back! I remembered the name from years ago (actually didn't realize it was that long ago- part of being old) and went back to look at your thread. Yes, it has been a struggle, and I'm very glad to read that you say you I HAVE NO OTHER OPTION BUT TO FOLLOW THIS PLAN FOR LIFE. But now it sounds like you are very upset over some actually quite normal reactions to changing your food habits. There are many explanations for why a person might have variations in her perceptions of the desire for food. One explanation is that it has nothing to do with what you've actually eaten, but just the bias in the brain to keep access to calorie dense food. It's natural, not a sign of a flaw. It was a useful bias when food was scarce, but it's mismatched for the modern, low-satiety food-rich environment and it takes time to work around it. It might sound weird to say, but when that bias in the brain _ I call it the weight defender- gets any hint that another part- in this case, the prefrontal cortex- is deciding to do anything to limit the food, oh, the tactics it will use to make you want to eat! It will fight because it thinks it's saving your life. You have to teach it that it's not necessary. (Having regular meals over time helps.) Expecting never to want to eat when it's not time to is quite a high expectation and will make you think you're failing when you might actually be making a lot of progress. I believe even people who are pretty established on No S sometimes get food whims, but they are just so used to ignoring them and moving on that they hardly realize it. Even Reinhard has said (it's been awhile) that when he was sometimes taking care of his kids for long periods of time, he felt like chowing down. It's just old patterns. Learning to ride the wave of desire up and down the other side is a matter of practice and experimenting in a calm- as much as is possible at any one moment- and curious way to discover the meals that work best. It won't always feel calm and curious, but it's kind of an umbrella thought to use. It's tempting to want it all to go easily and all the struggle to be over just because we commit. It's pretty famous in the diet world that anticipating how wonderful it's going to be can make us heady. It's how diet books are sold. It's actually how just about everything is sold!

I wish I could say that it was all going to be easy, you'll just breezily never want food unless it's time to eat, etc. But the odds are against that. And this program is still doable! In fact, as you said, you have no other option. Believing that can really help. When you feel something is your best option, you're more likely to make the best of the ups and downs- and ups! This has a lot of ups.

I often used a set of steps that are a strategy that is used in OCD treatment very often when I started and along the way. It was very helpful. I can give it to you, if you like. But know that any set of steps are one thing to know about and another to apply over and over. But they have been shown to change brain patterns, and that's what habit is. It's a bit trickier with food, but still applicable and helpful

Don't give up! You have so many wonderful meals ahead!
Last edited by oolala53 on Tue May 19, 2020 2:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
Count plates, not calories. 10 years "during"
Age 66
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8
3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux
6/21 22

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.

gingerpie
Posts: 1031
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 8:16 pm
Location: Pennsylvania, US

Re: Advice for committing

Post by gingerpie » Sat May 16, 2020 11:41 am

Hi Babybird,. Hope you are still with us.
Help with commitment is tough because only you can commit, we can only tell you why we stick with it for. I think of it like this: Eventually it's going to be 2025 or 2035 or 2065. Do I still want to be worrying and fussing about my weight and how I look 5, 15, or 45 years from now? No, I do not. I know this because I don't even want to be worrying and fussing about those things now. So, what's my alternative? Stop worrying and fussing about those things. Easier said than done of course but doable even for folks who struggle with bing eating and/or food disorders but honestly, I don't have much experience with that so I'll leave that topic to those with relavent input. I do know that giving up and moving into the "next best thing" over and over again is a recipe for disappointment and failure Which in turn is a handy excuse to just keep on failing. There is no magic solution to our problems with overeating we can only find a plan that makes sense to us (for me it's "No S" or a close proximity) and then do our best to stick with it. In the beginning that might mean celebrating seemingly miniscule successes but eventually those miniscule successes will build into something significant. . . BUT. . . you have to stick with it long enough to allow them to build.

Kind regards,

oolala53
Posts: 9754
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:46 am
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Re: Advice for committing

Post by oolala53 » Tue May 19, 2020 1:59 am

Hear, hear, gingerpie! I was one of those who DID dicker over it all for nearly 40 years. Couldn't face 20 more years of it full throttle, which doesn't mean it's never a struggle. I hope so much my experience will say some younger women years of misery.
Count plates, not calories. 10 years "during"
Age 66
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8
3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux
6/21 22

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.

Soliadegloria
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:03 pm

Re: Advice for committing

Post by Soliadegloria » Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:27 pm

Oolala53 I would really appreciate your information on ocd training! Thank you

oolala53
Posts: 9754
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:46 am
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Re: Advice for committing

Post by oolala53 » Sat Jun 20, 2020 6:09 am

Wow, it's amazing that I happened to come and look at this. We used to get email alerts when there were new posts on any threads we posted on, but that hasn't happened in a long time.

I've linked a rather long article; I hope it's helpful. Basically, I interpreted that my frequent urges to eat were similar to the frequent urges of people with OCD to perform some behavior. I don't believe they come from the same place in the brain, but the feelings of discomfort I believe are quite similar. In neither case are the a sign of any real problem. The ones I am talking about are not true hunger, but the antsy desires to eat binge-type food, the feelings like I just have to have it or I am going to jump out of my skin or something bad it going to happen. This is what OCDers feel if they don't wash their hands or check the door again or fold their socks or whatever. These feelings of urgency of course in both contexts are simply an illusion. Yes, it's uncomfortable and even almost excruciating at times, but I will not get damaged by tolerating these sensations.


https://hope4ocd.com/foursteps.php The article goes into a lot more detail; I prefaced it so that you might be thinking in these terms as you read, if you decide to look at the whole thing. Some of it won't quite fit, but it's still useful, I think.

But I'll give the overview in how I associated it with obsessive eating urges.

Step 1: Relabel- Oh, I'm having an obsessive thought/feeling that I have to eat. They are from my disordered brain patterns having become a very strong habit. This is obsessive, not natural. I don't really believe I need food. In fact, I just had food not that long ago, and I will again.

Step 2: Reattribute These are not true signs of hunger or a real need for food. They are false signals. My body has gotten used to frequent food from highly palatable but low nutrient food.The primitive part of my brain, the survival part, thinks it is protecting me by getting easy calories. At one point in human history, it was a real advantage to eat calorie dense food whenever it was available. It's just a mismatch. And they actually can make me feel better temporarily, but they don't solve any real problem. I can develop other parts of my brain to have new patterns that will become stronger and override the primitive pattern.

As is pointed out in the article, just steps 1 and 2 will not make the sensations, urges, feelings go away.

Step 3: Refocus Now I need to do something else, something ideally that is either pleasurable or productive. This new activity is when the rewiring will happen. I will get reinforced in this new behavior by the pleasure of the activity or the pleasure of accomplishing something. It's better if it is not completely mindless, but even if it is, I will get some satisfaction from thwarting my obsessive pattern. (Some would just call this diverting.)

On this one, I contend that, if you are alone, even crying can be a productive response to the feeling of irritation or frustration, as long as you con't compound any emotional element with self-judgement or dwelling on negative circumstances. (Sometimes the stimulus that gets the urge going is a conscious or unconscious emotion, negative or even positive.) Sometimes, sleeping is appropriate, too, instead of trying to pep yourself up with food. Of course, context is important. Alone and with some free time. Otherwise, consider revisiting the issue later.

Step 4: Revalue Give conscious thought to seeing how these steps work together. Realize that I am revaluing what these urges have been and what kinds of behaviors are better for me. I don't value or give them so much importance anymore. As a Zen teacher said once, at first your negative thoughts can be like a Rottweiler barking right in your ear, but after practicing for a time, they are more like a Chihuahua shut in a back bathroom yapping behind the door. I also witness myself seeing them and reacting to them, seeing that they are not a true representation of my self. None of them are a sign of a flawed person, just a mismatched brain pattern and an ingrained habit.

Of course, it can take awhile for the steps to become more ingrained, especially since we are dealing with a real biological drive. Give yourself lots of credit anytime you complete the steps. That is part of the rewiring.

The longer I am at this, the more I am convinced that it is actually worth it to make an effort, without being harsh, to keep moving toward mostly wholesome food. Those foods are less triggering and over time help to heal the intense response to the binge foods, which are usually highly processed, engineered to bypass the natural appestat. They, especially sugar and fake sweeteners besides monk fruit and stevia, also tend to feed the worst stuff in our gut and that it turn can affect our enhanced desire for these foods. Bad bacteria like bad food, too.

Retraining these habits can be hard, but living in the clutches of food is hard, too.

This is a lot more involved than No S promotes, but I think especially when someone has had a pattern of compulsively eating cruddy food, not just a snacking habit, it can take more detailed strategies.

Remember to be a little firm with yourself before you slip, but very gentle if that doesn't work. Dramatic self-judgement increases the chance of repeat slipping! But lavish praise when you do the target behavior also increases repeat behavior!

Have a lovely Sweekend.
Count plates, not calories. 10 years "during"
Age 66
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8
3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux
6/21 22

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.

Soliadegloria
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:03 pm

Re: Advice for committing

Post by Soliadegloria » Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:52 am

Oolala53 I can’t thank you enough for seeing and posting this info on ocd.... I have struggled desperately and silently with ocd and binge eating. I had read online about saying to myself when the ocd starts “that’s just the ocd I don’t need to listen to that.” This has begun to help but I never considered applying it to the disordered eating. I’ve been part of No S on and off for a few years, not achieving much as I would cut and run to other programs that offered more rigid counting, thus giving me the illusion of control and success. Yesterday I came searching the No S boards because I find myself using both weight watchers AND my fitness pal to double track... the insanity, the desperation ....I.just.cant.do.these.other.countung.programs..anymore I don’t want my life to consist of what doesn’t matter for eternity, weighing and measuring food or counting macros does not matter. I have health issues - lupus, high bp and cholesterol not to mention a lot of weight to lose, but I’m determined to do only No S. Oolala53 thank you for taking the time to really reply to people in their struggles. I’ve been reading your posts to others - and you’ve even replied to me. You are a blessing to those who find the No S and especially to those of us you come with decades of disordered eating. Thanks again for the ocd article and explanation.

automatedeating
Posts: 4591
Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2013 2:16 pm

Re: Advice for committing

Post by automatedeating » Sat Jun 20, 2020 2:41 pm

The longer I am at this, the more I am convinced that it is actually worth it to make an effort, without being harsh, to keep moving toward mostly wholesome food. Those foods are less triggering and over time help to heal the intense response to the binge foods, which are usually highly processed, engineered to bypass the natural appestat. They, especially sugar and fake sweeteners besides monk fruit and stevia, also tend to feed the worst stuff in our gut and that it turn can affect our enhanced desire for these foods. Bad bacteria like bad food, too.
100% agree about real foods being less triggering. I never struggle with overeating steak, broccoli, eggs, or yogurt. Doritos? Holy heck watch out I'll finish the bag and being snorfling around for more. And as someone that got C.diff, I can attest to my changed diet having fixed my gut problems. That reminds me, I need to go feed my sourdough starter. :wink:
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3
8/14-24.5
5/15-26.2
1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6
8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9
3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8;
3/19-22.1; 10/19-21.8
6/20-22.5; 7/20-23.0 (struggling but not sure why)

oolala53
Posts: 9754
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:46 am
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Re: Advice for committing

Post by oolala53 » Sun Jun 21, 2020 4:44 am

Soliadegloria, it is actually my pleasure, and am grateful that anyone will listen, and even more, get any help out of it. i long to make a contribution. I get some satisfaction from knowing that Reinhard has said he has never been able to convince even one family member to take this up. If he, who sounds so reasonable, kind, and clever, can't do it, it lets this person who is considered easily upset off the hook. But it sure would be nice to be in sync on it. Thus, online folks are my outlet.

May I say that I encourage you to use No S AND some prudent choices on your plates to counteract your health issues. Lupus, high blood pressure, and high cholesterol are way bigger deals, IMHO, than overweight. Even thin people would have to accept making changes to thwart them. Do not underestimate how much better you will feel if you make healing yourself a higher priority than losing weight, and let the orderliness of No S address the disordered eating. I would bet they could go hand in hand. There is some part of you that believes that it will mean giving up too much pleasure to do that, but that part is actually incapable of making that distinction. WW and fitnesspal are actually counterproductive to healing ourselves, I think, because the focus is on the mighty calorie. It's not that calories don't have a role; they are just a blunt instrument when it comes to healing. You deserve better.

But if that sounds like too much pressure, ignore me and just get the plate habit down.
Count plates, not calories. 10 years "during"
Age 66
SBMI Jan/10-30.8
1/12-26.8
3/13-24.9 +/- 8-lb. 3 yrs
9/17 22.8 (but more fluctuation)
3/18 22.2
2 yrs flux
6/21 22

There is no S better than Vanilla No S.

automatedeating
Posts: 4591
Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2013 2:16 pm

Re: Advice for committing

Post by automatedeating » Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:11 pm

Do not underestimate how much better you will feel if you make healing yourself a higher priority than losing weight,
Love, love, love this.
Month/Year-BMI
8/13-26.3
8/14-24.5
5/15-26.2
1/16-26.9; 9/16-25.6
8/17-25.8; 11/17-26.9
3/18-25.6; 8/18-24.5; 10/18-23.8;
3/19-22.1; 10/19-21.8
6/20-22.5; 7/20-23.0 (struggling but not sure why)

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